perps, sadism, repeat offenses

[markgreyblue]

this is inspired by useless theories posting --

do you think that abuse victims may become
perpetrators themselves because of the way they deal with their own pain - and their limit at the time in being able to know themselves-?

an example i mean - say if someone is abused mentally and emotionally - they ultimately may look for that kind of reinforcement in their lives

- negative reinforcement and take pleasure in it -
- because that may be the only way they get
their own kind of attention and recognition -
ultimately it is the way they know themselves-

-because that is what they learned - it may have been intended as hurtful abuse - but the child or whomever - may start to enjoy the abuse - as he or she quite instinctly has to 'get some kind of
adding experience out of it' since the abuse may be great - there would be most likely no where to turn and no one to turn to, to speak of his or her pain - likewise with sexual abuse -

the conflict of all the feelings there - may in turn - a reason for perpetrating - their only way of dealing with the pain - or the confusing moments, knowing themselves, may be to take kind of pleasure in it - and the physical aspect of it
can be such a primally driven and conditioned repsonse -

both events tap into parts of us that are 'way' confusing -

so are these possibilities -?
why do some become perps and others not -?

thoughts?

 

[Leosha]

I do a great deal of self harm behavior. At the extreme, I will go out to a bar or some such place, find some large drunk man (and usually not so smart, hopefully) that I can irritate enough to have him decide to fight me, and me being rather small, often will have the sh*t beat out of me. I do that not so often, but when the panic and fears and such feel so out of control that 'just' cutting or burning or some other form of self-harm would not be enough for me. That kind of abuse and pain has become some form of comfort to me over the years, as something I had gotten used to (although never have I gone out looking for sexual abuse, for some reason). I am actually rather proud of myself to come through tonight with no new 'boo boos', as it has been an emotionally rough night.

I think that it is possible to abuse the conscience and feeling out of someone. A friend of mine, he was abused to the point that he no longer felt anything. It was his protection, to no longer feel pain, or sad, or scared, or even happiness or good things. But still, he has a conscience, and he would never become someone who harms or even wishes harm on others. He is a much better man then me on that.

I am not sure what causes some to become perpetrators, as adults. I hope I never understand it.

leosha

 

[survive75]

I am not sure why that happens, but the theory goes that when you start to learn about your self-worth (some speculate that you develop this by the age of 3) a scale is created inside. There has to be a balance of how much good you believe you deserve and how much bad you believe you deserve. For those of us who have been taught we are worthless, when things get to feeling too good, we work hard to bring that scale back to our perceived comfortable balance. Sometimes by way of seeking out physical harm or negative relationships, sometimes by perpetuating guilt cycles using negative behaviors and addictions, and sometimes just by self-sabotaging any good in our lives.

Added to this scale of self-worth is the fact that SA seems to trip switches inside us that begin to make us see the abuse as sexual, and we really have little control over what turns us on and what we have to do to replicate the feelings of shame, guilt, humilation, doubt, etc. that the abuse originally created.

For me, this includes drinking to replicate the inability to remember what happens to me and needing violent male "fantasies" in order to escape into my head and out of my body during sex or masturbation. The latter brings me all the shame, guilt, and fear I need to replicate the feelings of humiliation and punishment that the SA holds for me and that my brain now considers sexually "exciting."

All I can say is I hate that this is what happens. It's difficult enough that the abuse happened in the first place, but to have to then deal with the fucked up way my mind has processed it is beyond frustrating. Just my thoughts...

-Sean

 

[markgreyblue]

sean - i hear you very much - i was told that as well - that when you are an infant - as was my case - if the first face you see - does not reflect a sense of appreciation or your smile - you then loose or never gain that sense of self -
and worth - the abuse - then compounded it and it lead me to relationships that were "familiar" to the abusive nature of my home life and the sa of my childhood -
i think then i started top seek out the reinforcement -
i was mugged and my eye was split - i didn't feel it -
i broke my arm - i didn't really feel it - nor was i able to voice anger - until given permission and then i did not know how - it wasn't really allowed before -

and yes violent fantasies -

it all becomes twisted in my head -

 

[Bill_1965]

There is much to be said about the wanting reinforcement of the negative feelings that have been installed in us. I know that I tended to seek or recreate the feelings of worthlessness when I began to feel worthless. Something that I now understand the root of and with that knowledge is something I can, with some hard work, fight off. Each time it becomes easier.

As far as why some become perps themselves, I don't know. The number is a lot smaller than the misinformed general puplic think. I think that they see the statistic that 80% of perps were abused themselves and assume that means that 80% of the abused become abusers. It really s**ks that even some of the professionals that should know better, have the same misconception and perpetuate that misinformation.

Back to the question, I have some thoughts on the matter, who knows if they are correct or contrived. It is all in the way we as the abused handle that abuse and the negative feelings associated with it. Some become alcoholics, druggies, or addicts of some other kind to mask the feelings. Some work their way through them and become well adjusted. Some develop some kind of phychosis or kill themselves to get away from from it. And a small number become abusers themselves, to gain a sense of control. The number of methods to deal with it are many. The reactions to the abuse are many. There is no one response that is predominate and present in all survivors of abuse. With that there is no "Childhood Abuse Syndrome" or "Sexual Abuse Syndrome". With so many responses to the abuse, I don't know if there is a fixed reason that some become abusers. Nor does it address why those that weren't abused become abusers, something that nobody seems to wonder about. Rather they want to focus on and believe that all abusers were abused themselves.

 

[Lloydy]

Sean
the guy who wrote the book on 'Attachment' was John Bowlby, and to date his work hasn't been really challenged.
He's an interesting psychologist who began the understanding on why we learn what we do.

Here's a link to a good site about stopping child physical abuse that has an excellent article about Bowlby.
I used it in my counselling class and got good marks for it anyway !

https://www.hinodoc.com/pages/c2bowlbytheory.html#

Dave