Parenting and Prevention

Parenting and Prevention

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This article and potential discussion would be a perfect fit for a "Parenting Forum," as discussed previously. I hope we can Still consider such a forum being added.

I posted this on my town's FB page as its nearly 100% parents of small-ish children who are active there. I was met with significant hostility in replies.

Id have to say that all the objections were "Who F T is this author to tell me how to protect my kids???"

Why My Family Doesn't Do Sleepovers
June 27, 2014parenting

James Dobson believes that children should not participate in sleepovers. The world has changed, he says, and has become too dangerous to allow your children out of your sight for so long. In his book Bringing Up Girls, he says:

Sadly, the world has changed in the last few decades, and it is no longer a safe place for children. Pedophiles and child molesters are more pervasive than ever. That is why parents must be diligent to protect their kids every hour of the day and night.

Until you have dealt with little victims as I have and seen the pain in their eyes, you might not fully appreciate the devastation inflicted by molestation. It casts a long shadow on everything that follows, including future marital relationships. Therefore, parents have to think the unthinkable in every situation. The threat can come from anywhereincluding neighbors, uncles, stepfathers, grandfathers, Sunday school teachers, coaches, music instructors, Scout leaders, and babysitters. Even public bathrooms can be dangerous today

He believes the threat is so pervasive that parents should not allow their children to participate in sleepovers. I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing.

I agree with the nature of his concerns. Before my children were even old enough to ask, Aileen and I talked it through and decided we would not allow our kids to do sleepovers. Now lets be clear: there is no biblical command that forbids them, so this was not a matter of clear right and wrong, but a matter of attempting to act with wisdom. We determined we would make it a family rule: Our children would not be allowed to spend the night at their friends homes. We believed they would face a particular kind of vulnerability if they found themselves alone and in bed outside our care, and we wanted to protect them from it. So they have stayed at their grandparents and have stayed with my sisters when weve visited the South, but they have not stayed at friends homes. (Note: My son is fourteen and we have now relaxed the rule with him, though permission is still dependent on circumstances.)

The reason we drew the rule so firmly was that it removes exceptions and explanations. We know ourselves well and realized that if we drew up a list of exceptions we would inevitably broaden that list over time. Not only that, but we did not want to have to explain to a family why we allowed our children to stay with others but not with them. So sleepovers were just taken right off the table without exceptions or individual explanations.

In this way I agree with Dobson that there is wisdom in avoiding sleepovers. But heres where I disagree: that the risk is that much higher today than it was decades ago.

Aileen and I made our decision based largely on experience and observation of what happened around us when we were young. We made this decision because even in our youthdecades agowe saw plenty of evidence of the dangers inherent in sleepovers.

When I was young I had some bad experiences with sleepovers. Nothing devastating happened to me, but I did learn that sleepovers bring a certain vulnerability and that children often behave foolishly in these circumstances. Before long my family came to know the local chief of police and he told us that if he had learned anything in his many years of law enforcement it was this: Dont let your kids sleep over. As I got older I learned of several people I knew who had been taken advantage of during sleepovers, and it wasnt a perverse father in most cases, but a predatory older brother or sister or cousin. Sometimes it was even the friend himself. The world was plenty dangerous back then and children were just as vulnerable, but somehow these things werent talked about as they are today.

As Aileen and I considered all of this and weighed it in our minds, we decided that the benefits of sleepovers did not outweigh the risks.

Denny Burk writes, Parents must be as wise as serpents and innocent as doves when figuring out the best way to protect children from both. Moreover, parents will often have to pursue principles that might seem strange to the rest of the world but which are the only rational responses to very real and potential threats to children. Burk believes we need to challenge the assumption of sleepover-as-norm, and I quite agree. Do not allow yourself to feel pressured into sleepovers simply because it is what parents have always done. Instead, consider the issues and come to a conclusion that is right for your family and your context.

I would be interested to know: Do you allow sleepovers? Why or why not?
 
Me and my wife are very carful where we let our kids go and if they have a sleepover its at very specific relatives homes. People we really know and trust. But it's not an easy thing to balance and my kids and other relatives don't understand us but that's what we do to keep them safe. And I think this is a great thread.
 
Reading your post brought to mind how much things have changed over the years. Growing up, sleepovers were one of the greatest joys we could imagine, and yet my wife and I were just discussing what we would do if our daughter was invited over and we agreed that we wouldnt let her. I hate to deprive our daughter of the fun we had and maybe if there was a family we really trusted but theres just no way to be sure.

What bothers me is that weve tried to teach our daughter to be open with us if anything is goes wrong so we can catch it straight away. Despite that, whenever shes upset she closes up on us. Maybe its a natural response. She's five years old but acts like a moody teenager, exactly the opposite of what we need to do to tackle the situation if it should arise.
 
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The world has changed, he says, and has become too dangerous to allow your children out of your sight for so long. In his book Bringing Up Girls, he says:

Has it really changed or are we just more aware of it.

Sadly, the world has changed in the last few decades, and it is no longer a safe place for children. Paedophiles and child molesters are more pervasive than ever. That is why parents must be diligent to protect their kids every hour of the day and night.

Really? it's always been thus, mine was over 45 years ago.

Therefore, parents have to think the unthinkable in every situation. The threat can come from anywhereincluding neighbours, uncles, stepfathers, grandfathers, Sunday school teachers, coaches, music instructors, Scout leaders, and babysitters. Even public bathrooms can be dangerous today

This really makes me cross, what the hell has public toilets got to do with a sleepover and for that matter my kids were never invited to a sleepover by any Sunday school teachers, coaches, music instructors, scout leaders or babysitters, they were invited by their friends, kids of their own age. I'm sure that some of their friends parents held these roles but I didn't put them into risk categories based on what they did for a living, to associate the two as if music instructors for instance were more risker than say postman is not helpful

Notwithstanding how I feel with regard to sleepovers, the protection of my children and my own experiences as a child, James Dobson has written a pretty irresponsible piece backed up with absolutely no evidence and which makes its point by preying on the fears of parents.

The world has always been dangerous for children, as adults we must protect them as best we can.
 
Hey tbkk,

You've made some excellent, valid points.

It's always been risky, but now there's just more awareness. Dr. Dobson has used the old familiar "Be afraid, be very afraid." gimmick that's so effective as a fund raiser for his organization.

But more than 60 years ago (just as today) sleepovers CAN be dangerous. Even then, the idea of a harmless sleepover between me and my cousin eventually turned into abuse. Parents today, just as in the past, need to protect their children. Whether they do an adequate job or not hasn't changed over the years either. Vigilance has always, and will always be, the key.

I suppose there will always be someone who takes it upon himself to tell us how to raise our children.
 
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Just a bit of housekeeping:

Dr Dobson did NOT write the article in any way whatsoever. He was only cited in the opening line.
 
We have allowed our kids to go to sleepovers and also to host sleepovers. Generally when we host sleepovers I hide upstairs in the bedroom because the house is even more full of females than usual, and teenage girls are especially dramatic.

At some point we have to let our kids live and experience life because we won't be around to helicopter over them forever. There are risks to everything. You can get killed walking on the sidewalk, or riding a bike or school bus, or a drive-by shooter can accidentally kill you. There are so many ways that harm can befall us. All I can do is try -- try, mind you -- to instill some values and common sense into my kids and hope for the best.
 
Nothing Man said:
We have allowed our kids to go to sleepovers and also to host sleepovers. Generally when we host sleepovers I hide upstairs in the bedroom because the house is even more full of females than usual, and teenage girls are especially dramatic.

At some point we have to let our kids live and experience life because we won't be around to helicopter over them forever. There are risks to everything. You can get killed walking on the sidewalk, or riding a bike or school bus, or a drive-by shooter can accidentally kill you. There are so many ways that harm can befall us. All I can do is try -- try, mind you -- to instill some values and common sense into my kids and hope for the best.


Well said, Nothing Man!! I agree completely with your assertions..
 
Maybe Im not ready for that but I agree - well said and hits the mark.
 
tbkkfile said:
The world has always been dangerous for children, as adults we must protect them as best we can.

Yes, I completely agree. I wrote the same thing a couple of days ago, but ended up deleting it before i posted it because I don't have kids, so my opinion probably doesn't count. The world has never been a safe place for kids, but I'm pretty sure it's safer now than it used to be. According to crime stats it is. Though the media seem to do a good job of telling us that it's not.

I'm aware that Dobson didn't write the article, but he wrote the unsubstantiated quote that terrified those parents into thinking that the parent's of their kid's best friends were probably pedophiles, just waiting to abuse them at a sleepover. I thought it was weird that a man would write a book on raising girls, so I googled it (bad idea). Turns out he's someone that the Duggars probably get their parenting advice from. He's probably the biggest threat to kids today. He advocates training kids to be obedient and physically assaulting them if they don't comply. What chance has a kid got to defend themselves against a pedophile if they are taught to obey adults without question? Most of the signs that kids have been abused could be mistaken for them being disobedient... but let's just further traumatise the kid by hitting them. He sounds insane so I hope no one follows his advice.
 
It just amazes me that the town who's soccer-moms shit all over the concept of being weary of sleepovers is the same town that coddled and protected a very aggressive, open and defiant pedofile, and has one newer prominent father of small children with whom there have been MANY accusations of sleepover molestations of girls. Each occurrence has been handled privately and been deemed "misunderstandings." I'm not "amazed" that they should simply continue with their trend of pedo-coddling, but rather amazed at their openness viciousness at even a suggestion of caution with such events.

With these women, the soul basis of their argument against the caution-concept was the source of the opening quote. They never got beyond that it came from Dobson. They became unglued at the sight of his name and commenced shitting themselves through vicious comments of "how dare he...yada yada..."

txb said:
Turns out he's someone that the Duggars probably get their parenting advice from.

Why the speculation? Is that not a bit of stretching? I'm guessing Obama once read Mad Magazine and possibly knows someone who's uncle may have formed jokes through the Mad Magazine theme.

I mean holy shit dude! I heard that the duggars allowed their kids to drink milk, and milk is the same exact thing the Dobsons gave their kids!!!

txb said:
He's probably the biggest threat to kids today.


Why don't we piss upon the merits and defects of the actual item in discussion? This multi-dimensional, tangential method used by some in politics does nothing but cause truths to be distorted and ignored.
 
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...and call me crazy, but couldn't the Duggar situation be a nuclear-grade reason and evidence for that "unknown" surrounding the "sleepovers?"

Or are you guys telling me you can adequately predict the unknown and errant person (a 12-yo sibling in this case) likely to offend?

We control what we can control and we predict what we can predict. We do all we can to keep our kids safe (ideally). But if we knew any offender or our offender was a hazard to children, there would be great efforts for avoidance.

You'll never be fooled by a person you DON'T trust. You'll never be burned by someone you DON'T trust. But what about all the potential wild-cards out there?

Can we really query for and then accurately discern all the hazards - including the unknown person, visitor, trip to wherever? When you place your child in the hands of yet another deck of wildcards, you amplify the odds against that child (IMO).
 
If we are going to "speculate" as to the viability of the dangers of sleepovers, I'll offer this movie synopsis:

HAPPINESS:
Director: Todd Solondz

There's no better film out there that paints us a portrait of suburbia gone wrong than Todd Solondzs twisted drama Happiness. In it, Dylan Baker plays a pedophile psychiatrist named Bill Maplewood who rapes two of his sons classmates during the movies first act. But instead of filming this movie like a horror flick or a thriller, Solondz presents it all in a way that is reminiscent of a 50s sitcom with its sweeping music, tucked-in shirts, and heart-to-heart conversations between a father and son about penis size. Hell, daddy dearest even offers to measure his sons for him.

The conversation ends with Bill tussling his sons hair as he goes back to happily reading his magazine. The repressed psyches of all of these characters is what is really disturbing as the picture-perfect middle-class suburban life falls under the microscope of a director who seems hell-bent on showing off societys seedy underbelly.

In this movie, the perp was the ultimate in trustworthy people. He was even "professionally trustworthy."
 
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