On remembering memories

[MrDon]

Here is a quote that I found in a resource that I am using to write my term paper. It was quote that really hit me and now makes more sense than ever of why I continued to act out in sexual ways. It was like a lightbulb clicked on and it has been quite some time since I have acted out through porn places, etc. But anyway, the quote was in a source on the internet "In Terror's Grip: Healing the Ravages Of Trauma" by Bessel A. Van Der Kolk, M.D. .

Sigmund Freud wrote in "Inhibitions, Symptoms and Anxiety" that "If a person does not remember, he is likely to act out: he reproduces it not as a memory but as an action; he repeats it, without knowing, of course that he is repeating, and in the end, we understand that this is his way of remembering."

 

[Mike Church]

My God. That is so correct. It is almost as if he suffered SA. I would like to know, however, why someone like me, who remembers everything still acted out. Is it because I had a death wish or actually enjoyed it. I wish I knew.

 

[bowman]

Mike,
In my experience remembering the events isn't the same as feeling their impact or appreciating the magnitude of their destructive force.

I was abused by a couple of teenage boys when I was nine, and I always remembered that it happened, but I didn't really think about it or feel anything about it. Same with the stuff with my mother.

Just because you remember the events doesn't mean they are properly integrated into your consciousness. It seems even in that case acting out would still be a way of trying to deal with the events. IMHO.

Cut yourself a break, brother.

Ken

 

[andrew-almost52]

Absolutely right Ken, I couldn't agree more. Memories are exactly that, just memories. They are not necessarily internalized or processed. How we really feel about the memory(ies) may be sublimated and buried even more deeply than an event which has yet to surface in our consciousness. The mind is a tricky but wonderful thing. In my experience, we need to trust our minds, allow the defense mechanisms that are part of our psyche to protect us, and listen carefully to what our inner voices tell us, and then allow things to unfold gently and naturally. Peace, Andrew

 

[lauraanimal]

wow
that hit me like a ton of bricks. it ws like you was writting it directly towards me. i right now am going threw "remebering things" that i didnt remember before. so far just in this thread i have gotten great info on how to understand them and take them.

as i was young when almost all my abuse happened, i dont remeber much of it, but i know the impact of it is a great deal and weighs heavely on my shoulders. there are a lot of things i still dont remeber or understand what some of the things is i do remember mean. what i do know is it has screwed me up in the head and i have a whole mess of whires to untangle and there not even color coded.
thanks so much for this grea thread

Laura

 

[Lloydy]

Ken / Andrew
I agree. I remembered ALL of my abuse, but I 'remembered' it in a very distorted fashion that was at odds with the true memory that was hidden much deeper.

My active memories were closer to, and used as, fantasies.
And it was only by comparing the two in therapy, and then seeing the difference - the reality ! - I could then work on the effects.

Freud was right, but he could also have said "If a person does not remember ACCURATELY, he is likely to act out:"

Dave

 

[RemittentPeace]

I don't agree with virtually any of what Sigmund Freud says. I think he incorrectly generalizes the relationship between human behavior and sexual desire. He based all of his generalizations on very few case studies.

Not trying to neutralize anyone else's opinion. I think sometimes its very healthy to repress memories for a certain period of time. I know that it is not a common belief.

How we act out lies in our generalized system of how we respond to information overall, not the information itself or the context from which it came. Solving the problem by isloating negative stimulus (through justification internally this information and applying it in a context that no longer exists) still leaves the opportunity for negative results from the same negative stimulus. The key in altering behavior is not in adding or altering information, but is to change how one reacts to all stimulus.

For example, if one remembers the abuse of chilhood and attaches the thought "I was only a child, I was helpless" in order to effectively retain it in consciousness, he will continue to feel helpless in the same situation throughout his or her life. One will have to feel helpless and to some degree like a child again in a similarly stressful situation to create the same context that justified the first situation b/c we are convinced that information evaluated or not evaluated and thus repressed or not repressed--> behavior. If a repressed memory results in behavior, then a non repressed memory (whether it be altered or not altered) must result in behavior as well naturally.

I do have a opinion about how to alter response in a generalized way to all stimulus, but I don't want to preach my beliefs.

btw i said they above factually i know. I just am too lazy to add IMO everywhere, so please understand this is all my opinions done on very little personal work (I have refrenced quite a bit of other research in this hypothesis though)

 

[Mike Church]

RP you said:

How we act out lies in our generalized system of how we respond to information overall, not the information itself or the context from which it came. Solving the problem by isloating negative stimulus (through justification internally this information and applying it in a context that no longer exists) still leaves the opportunity for negative results from the same negative stimulus. The key in altering behavior is not in adding or altering information, but is to change how one reacts to all stimulus.

Now all of us here agree that the facts of the past cannot be changed but emotions, beliefs, and perceptions can. This is the key to moving on and keeping those out of the future where we are going to spend the rest of our lives.

That is the road we are all on. K Singer writes about it in his article about triggers and what we can do about them. It is accessed through the front page of this web site.

For example, if one remembers the abuse of chilhood and attaches the thought "I was only a child, I was helpless" in order to effectively retain it in consciousness, he will continue to feel helpless in the same situation throughout his or her life.

That is exactly what we are doing. Changing the beliefs about the past. But along with knowing you were helpless and are not now should also come the anger at the person who stole our innocence and betrayed our trust and a deternimation to heal no matter what. Too often that anger is directed inwards or against society in general. We withdraw from society or we attack it. Either way, instead of living life, we merely exist. And that should not be the human condition.

 

[Leosha]

How is it it works if you remember things anyway? I hear yesterday, of someone who really did not remember things until he is older. I have those memories and thoughts, but I just put them to side for some years. But I did "act up" some, being rude person, drinking some. How is that explained if there is no "remembering" going on? Forgive me if I am stupid, I am still learning how this goes together.

 

[Wuamei]

Leosha:

There are many of us here, myself included, who did not remember the sexual abuse that happened to them until many years later. There are many reasons this could & does happen, as I'll share a bit out of my own experience.

For 35 years I tried to block out or suppress some of my memories, just blank them out. It seems as soon as I got abused I just "forgot about it."

Sometimes when I was being abused or when I started to remember being abused I would kinda go outside myself. At times I could even look down at what was happening from the ceiling or something, like it wasn't me & I was escaping. That is called depersonalization.

Other times I had abuse memories, but it was like I knew the little boy they'd happened to, but I never associated them with myself--dissociation.

Most of my memories were acutally re-pressed, meaning I pressed them down but the pressure built up and they had to come out, in the body, emotional & sensory memories. And thus in the ways I acted, and reacted, in my life.

So when I say I didn't remember being sexually abused until I was almost 45 years old, I have to qualify it. Really I did remember but it was just
quick flashes of memories that I couldn't put together and didn't necessarily relate to myself.
More often it was not pictures so much as feelings
in my mind or in my body but I had no idea what they were about.

Until two years ago...

Anyway Leosha I hope that helps some. If it's hard
for you to understand don't worry--it's hard for me to understand too!

Victor