OK, but what if you wanted it?

OK, but what if you wanted it?
C

cogito

Registrant
So I keep readin in these forums how it's not your fault, you weren't responsible, etc.
I guess I'm not there yet.
I don't feel like it was my fault, I just feel like I was a natural-born whore; not my fault, but just the way it is.
I've never felt anger at any of the guys that abused me. Fear sometimes--as when being raped at age 12, but not anger. After all, I was the one that got in the car with him, knowing something was up.
Sure it would be great to be able to say I had no responsibility in the matter, but I feel like I did.
Anyone relate to this?
 
Cogito,

Yes, I do. My last perp was someone who took advantage of my sexuality and my loneliness. I knew what he wanted. But I didn't know that it was being used. I have felt a lot of guilt over this. Because I was old enough to say no. But I had been conditioned by then to equate sex with love.

Yeah, I went to him. But it was still abuse because he took advantage of my need for love.

Do I hate him? No. Maybe I should, but that feels like it would be a cop-out. I have no anger for him. As a matter of fact, I have no anger yet about the man who raped me at 3.

So, it was not your fault. Not mine either. Though sometimes, it can feel like it is.

In my case, being gay only adds to the confusion. Because I wonder if I initiated it, even as young as the first time.

So yeah, hatred and anger are not something I deal with here. I hate what they did, but I can't get up the rage I should have. Because I feel partly responsible.

You are not alone.

Marc
 
Cognito - I was 5 when my cousin (who slept with me when visiting overnight/frequently)and was 8 at the time, introduced me to sexual things. I didn't want it. I didn't ask for it BUT it felt good and exciting. I told my parents but they only beat me and never stopped him. It felt good and he continued!! [notice I didn't let him but didn't stop him either! Why? He was bigger than me; my parents beat ME never stopping him; and it felt good]. He turned me on to a sexualized childhood and adolescence that I didn't ask for nor did I want...BUT it felt good. I was a kid and this was not what kids did!! My anger at him and my parents and all the other abusers and rapists in my life is "How dare they touch me and bring me into a world that has hurt, pained, ruined, destroyed, wasted, damaged me the way it did..even though it felt good to be sexual!!! I used to think it was my fault because "I let them" but what lies!! I didn't raise my hand and volunteer because, in their own selfishness and choice, THEY SELECTED ME to be the recipient of their sexual desires!!

Howard
 
Cogito,
being abused at age of 6 and practically raped at age of 12 and you think that you are responsible because you wanted?
Sorry to tell you on this way but you already had history so you can not tell that this didn't affect your mind, self-esteem and view on the world in general.
I read your sentence: I just feel like I was a natural-born whore, like: I just feel that I was naturally worthless and, maybe you are not aware of it, but these are words of a survivor.
Even that you didn't have abuse experience you would be curious about sex at the age of 12, you shouldn't feel guilt about that.
What is terrible is the fact that there are creatures on this planet that are ready to exploit this curiosity by any price. You didn't know what would exactly happen and what would be implications but that adult moron did and he wanted that.
You do not have to be angry to accept that, but you have to find way to accept that it is not your fault.
Like you I am also not angry on anyone, I just wish that I could change bad things from my past...

Take care about yourself.
Ivo
 
***Triggers probable***

Sure I relate Cogito.

My first sex partner was a boy my age, 8 or 9. Fun and games. Both "gay" (before we really knew what it meant). We both liked Tarzan. We both liked Batman and Robin. We both acknowledged a secret crush on a classmate. We massaged each other. It went from there.

My second sex partner, however, was very different. I was about 12 or 13, just lying naked in the sun in the great outdoors. He was much, much older, also sun-bathing naked near by. Does my curiosity, that of a 12 or 13-year old, give this older guy the right to exploit me? Time and time again, even summer after summer?

Sure I "knew" what I was doing. Kids in puberty "know" so much, don't they? The law, in its wisdom, says kids that age are not able to give consent to someone older. Why? Precisely because we don't have the wisdom or life experience to know what's going on. The perp/perv's desires take precedence over the kid's curiosity, "willingness", etc.

What happened? I "came out" (surprise, surprise) at age 21, having missed any chance for a "coming of age"-type romance with someone my age because my view of sex was mixed up with age difference, power, etc.

So I did not discriminate, i.e. have any boundaries. I was eager to please anyone, alone or in groups, my age or older.

When I wasn't having sex I was drinking and drugging.

My boundaries dissolved completely. Sex with anyone. With or without a condom, even just as AIDS was starting to become known to everyone.

I accept full responsibility for my actions as an adult. Stoned and sober. Safe and unsafe. Notwithstanding that we knew nothing about AIDS in the early 80s, it was not my idea to use condoms once information started to grow. It was usually up to the other guy. My choice? Yes, but do you see where my thought process came from?

Not having even acknowledged the abuse for what it was, this kid gave away his power. It has taken me many years to begin to take it back.

Today I don't drink or drug. But, since 1989 - that's fifteen years - I have had HIV/AIDS, nearly dying in the early 90s. I got it as an adult (for which I am responsible), yes, but with the conditioning and influence of untreated sexual abuse as a kid.

It all started on a summer day as a youngster on my bicycle when, along a river-side path, I claimed a large boulder as my own and stripped down naked to sun-bathe.

It felt good.

Kenn
 
cogito

Here is what I do when I think about this and wonder what my role was in this. Try to find a friend that has a baby or a young child and then try to picture them looking for sex. Now find a child that was the same age as you and try to picture them going out to look for sex. Hopefully that puts things in a better perspective because if you see those young kids, to me it is hard to imagine them wanting sex and trying to initiate sex.

The one thing I have learned is that our bodies are designed to respond in a sexual way from early on. It doesn't mean we have the feelings or emotions to go with these sexual responses. But just having a sexual response doesn't mean that we wanted it, desired it or initiated it.

Just my view on it as I have went through my healing.

Don
 
Cognito,

No, it really wasn't your fault, the blame is on them, and on them alone.

I know, you can never say it was not your fault, because you've told yourself it was, ever since it happened, you even blame yourself for enjoying it.

As an adult, it was him, and him alone that was to blame, he took advantage of you, probably when you were in need of some attention, he should not have done what he did, and he would know the damage he was inflicting, for his own gratification.

Btw, if you had have been caught in the act, the law would not see you responsible for it, no matter even if you said you asked for it, consider why that is? Because the law would not see a child as responsible, for acts that an adult did to them.

Stop blaming yourself, and see it how it really is, he screwed up your mind, lay the blame where it should rest.

take care

ste
 
Hi Cogito

I have been reading your message again and again.

Before starting recovery from CSA/SA 10 years ago, I used to do drink, drugs and promiscuous sex. Before going out cruising I would stand in front of the mirror in my bedroom and say out loud to my reflection: "you're just a cheap whore, you have no rights and you were born to be used and abused" and I would leave home to get off my head and get sexually abused. I really believed this down to the core of my being,

I have only shared this once a few years ago at a recovery meeting but I have not heard anyone saying this until now. Today I know deep down I am not a whore and don't deserve to be abused but I had to start by truly acknowledging what I really thought about myself.

I did not feel any anger towards the people who abused me until doing recovery for a while. When I started to feel the anger I also started to feel the pain of having been abused. Keeping the anger numb kept the pain numb as well.

The fact that you had an intuition that "something was up" does not mean that you are responsible for the abuse, it means that you picked up danger signals. You got in the car because there was an imbalance of power?
I hope I am not being offensive by asking this question: before getting in the car did you say "can I get into your car so we can go off and have sex" or was it him asking you to get in the car with a hidden agenda?

Your post is a powerful one for me, it reminds me of the fundamental change I have done about how or what I think of myself.

Thanks
Heart
 
Thanks all you guys for your sincere and helpful replies.
I've just barely started dealing with this--meaning thinking of it as something that needs to be dealt with.
Between the therapy and my psych meds and my problems at work and home, I feel like I walk a pretty precarious emotional line. When I listen to you guys talk, my heart starts beating hard and I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache. I really don't want to dig up all those feelings (which I only vaguely remember) about all the sexual shit that happened to me as a kid, but the shrink says it is probably fundamental to my problems with depression, self-loathing, and suicide.
What I wonder is what is left over? If I get rid of depression and shame and self-hatred, if I resolve the sexual shit, I don't know if there would be anything left over to be "me".
 
Cognito - Speaking for myself, what was left to be "me" was the real ME who was crapped on, spindled and mutalated, bent and covered with lies...but now he has been cleaned up, set straight to be the loveable little guy he was meant to be!! Full of life, enjoying what he's doing and feeling pretty darn good about himself!! Hang in there! There is life after abuse and survival!!

Howard
 
I have been struggling with this for 22 years. I seem to think at age 6, I knew what was going on, and must have liked it. Yes, it felt good. I felt dirty and like shit, but my body sensations were pleasing. I have not trusted my body sinse, even gaining weight to ensure I will not be in a position for my body to 'betray' me again.

But, I have come to realize, WHo is to blame? The 6 year old or the fucking evil diabolical prick who gained my family's trust to have his sick way with a trusting, loving little boy. I blamed myslef, and I blamed God. Now, I have realized the blame lies soley with him. I could not comprehend what he was doing. It felt good because the body is programmed to respond to sexual stimutation with pleasure. I have asked God to forgive my anger, and I pray for forgiveness every night. I used to pray to be able to forgive my abuser. I do not any longer. I DO NOT forgive him. I WILL NOT forgive him. TO forgive him would almost be like accepting responsibility. I can not accept the blame. I was pure and innocent. Yes, I loved him, wanted to be with him. But I never even knew what sex was at that age. How could I choose to let him use my body for his own pleasure?

Casey
 
You guys have some powerful stuff here. These are the questions and answers by which we find a new life. Im in the strangest place right now. Im starting to feel some strength. Im not as frightened as I have been for most of my life. I have more control over what I think about. I have more control over the choices in my life. I have more choices in my life.
Its still not easy going to group. Well, individual therapy isnt easy, either, but group is downright hard for me. My therapist tells me that Ive thought about myself to be lower than whale stuff for so long it is hard for me to see myself as an acceptable man in a mens setting. By God, I think that this sh t works. And a lot of credit goes to you guys with your wonderful accepting spirit for those of us who dont feel very acceptable.

David
 
Cogito,

Just to add my two cents.

I was a fat, lonely, 11 year old who was seduced by a middle school conselor who knew ALL the right buttons to push.

I was lonely, and he paid attention.
I was curious, and he fed that curiosity.
I was smart, and he made me FEEL smart.
I was ahead of my classmates intellecutally, and he made damn sure I KNEW how far ahead of them I was.

The sex felt good at first, but even when it started I knew something was wrong. That my body responded to it, that I was willing to go back even when I knew it was wrong, that it made me feel so grown-up and special, none of it mattered, because he USED it all on me.

Was it my fault? Did I want it?

I know now I didn't want the abuse. I wanted an olderman to notice me. To say I was special. To say I was okay. To treat me like an equal.

Yeah, the sex "felt" good too, but it was wrong. I didn't know it then. He did.

That makes it HIS fault, never mine. I don't care if I willingly did what he asked me (sometimes yes, sometimes no), he STILL knew better.

And it wasn't yours either, my dear friend. Even if you have to say this a thousand times a day, PLEASE keep saying it until you believe it. Because it's true.

Peace and love,

Scot
 
Whether we 'wanted' it...'liked' it or kept coming back...does not matter. Sexual exploitation by an older, more powerful person is what it is...wrong on any count. Having an age of majority is done for a reason...children are not capable of making these relationships...and adults who exploit that are wrong. I was 19 when the adult, priest\draft counselor starting physically and sexually assaulting me...it was wrong but I thought I was in control...wrong. I wanted something and he knew it...he exploited a frightened, abused, lonely teen ager. I look now at my own 18 year old son and realize...my God...if someone did that to him I would go into a blind rage.

What happened to us was WRONG! We responed because we are biological beings. If you want to get sperm from a horse you can do it...it is a reflex! Even Christopher Reeves body can get an erection...

Marty
 
There's a guy I pm with here that says pretty much the same thing.

I never know exactly what to say to him about it. I accept it as his truth but, globally, get very upset about adults abusing children.

Why does this have to happen to people when they are children? Why does a child's life have to include abuse?

Its hard for me to think that you were born a wh're as you say, attracted the abuse and then felt good about it. There may be some biology around depression, bipolarity, etc. but not, I think, around experience. Maybe acceptance of a label like that is a way to cope.

Guilt and shame are cultural. Is abuse of children cultural?

Its that very complexity about it that makes me wonder about a child feeling good about it. I know that the physical sensations can be enjoyable but beyond that it is simply out of my experience.

How can a child judge what is happening to him?
 
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