Note from our President: Weekends of Recovery

Note from our President: Weekends of Recovery
Pablo:

At the risk of reinforcing your negative behavior here on this forum, I would like to respond to your unsubstantiated accusations against malesurvivor.

You have heard a "great many concerns" about "very harmful things". If you would like to be taken seriously on this forum and expect further response and from the leadership, you will need to explain in detail. If you can't or won't do this, then what is your point? Are you on a crusade to expose an alleged conspiracy or coverup of this organization's alleged abuse of retreat participants? If your allegations of so many "very harmful things" occurring at the retreats are true, why haven't you gone public? Why are you debating this "evil" group? (comparison to the "evil" Catholics belongs to you).

At this point, your allegations against NOMSV are nothing but heresay and gossip. Possibly YOU are the one causing harm to the readers at this public forum with your vague accusations (exxagerations? falsehoods?).

I believe you DO have an interest in being counterproductive here, mavbe on an unconscious level. I also believe that your anger is misdirected and possibly an example of transference. Why not be pro-ductive and look into that off the forum?

J7
 
Dear roadrunner, collegecapricorn and joseph7, et. al.

1. I don't think it is negative behavior to ask what has been done to address problems that occurred in the past. My apologies to anyone who feels otherwise. Somehow I thought it was OK to ask questions on a discussion board.

2. Not once have I addressed anyone with negativity, hostility, or anger.

3. To what point would I have to be counterproductive to malesurvivor, even on an unconscious level? Somehow, wanting to make sure that any survivor who attends a retreat is safe doesn't seem to quite fit that bill.

4. Nothing that I've said about past retreats is hearsay or gossip, joseph7. And it isn't imagined if it really happened, even if you weren't there to witness it. The board members who posted on this topic have acknowledged the problems of which they are aware.

5. Tranference? I don't think so. And somehow, inviting me to look into that off forum hardly seems to be a great way to welcome me to look at other topics. In fact, that's downright unfriendly. Is everyone who speaks out of turn invited to go elsewhere? That's just not nice.

6. I well understand about non-profit volunteer boards. Unfortunately, since my initial comments were moved elsewhere in the forum, you might not know that. I have served on several boards, including one for survivors of domestic violence. I truly do understand how they work, and I absolutely understand the responsibility such positions carry. They can be thankless positions, but the joy that is gained from giving back makes it well worth the time and energy. I hope everyone who serves here as a board members leaves their term with that same feeling, regardless of any bumps in the road that they face.

7. I am not a newcomer to this site. At one point several years ago, I was an active participant under another name. Too active, probably. I left for various reasons and have only returned intermittently as a lurker. I am well acquainted with what is here, and yes, a whole lot of it is very good. I have never said differently.

8. Jumping on me with snide remarks is just silly. I've seen it before here on other posts where if someone disagrees, they are really slapped verbally. I think that's a pretty nasty thing to do. but perhaps I'm mistaken about that, too.

9. My sincere apologies to anyone whom I've offended, or anyone whose recovery has been hurt in any way by my asking questions I believed would help to ensure future retreats will be healthy and safe environments. Trust me, after this post, I will go back to my little quiet corner of the world and leave you folks alone. This type of conflict, and getting jumped on for asking questions or disagreeing, is one of the reasons I left previously. It can be so detrimental to recovery.

I've said my bit, and I've invited people who have had bad experiences to come and make sure the board is aware of all of their complaints. I can't do any more than that without being a real jackass. As I said, it has never been my goal to disrupt anyone's healing.

There is a real danger with this type of communication. None of us know each other, or perhaps we do, and we're just posting under aliases. Because of that, I try to tread very carefully before treating anyone with disrespect. I certainly hope that I have shown none here, because that was not my intention.

I would encourage all of you to do that, too.

Courtesy and kindness are two of the most basic things that we as humans can offer to each other, whether it's in person or on a discussion board.

Pablo

(who is going away now.)
 
Pablo:
7. I am not a newcomer to this site. At one point several years ago, I was an active participant under another name. Too active, probably. I left for various reasons and have only returned intermittently as a lurker. I am well acquainted with what is here, and yes, a whole lot of it is very good. I have never said differently.

Would you like to tell us what name(s) you posted here before?
Ken
 
I might be wrong but I think this thread should be moved to Off Topic. The snippiness and cat-fighting are doing nothing to assist in anyone's healing or recovery.

Pablo brought up some legitimate questions. Murray addressed them with a level headed and intelligent response. Ken sounds defensive and up for a fight. Everyone else is reacting to all three. Take it somewhere else please.

With due respect to all - John
 
I dont think it's silly or cat-fighting to say that if someone has a complaint to make, do so and provide the information to those who need it otherwise call it a day. This is simply asking for the person to be reasonable and to act in the interest of the group. Pablo has not offered any details or specifics to back up what amount to very negative accusations, asserted not directly but by insinuation and implication. I have difficulty seeing this as anything other than very harmful, and certainly it provides no basis for any response. It's rather like commanding someone to grab smoke.

I am prepared to take responsibility for what I say and to apologize if I am wrong. I don't have an ax to grind (at least not that I know of). But if something is clearly getting out of order then that needs to be stated, otherwise it just goes on and on. If Pablo has a genuine case he should make it clearly and specifically, and in that case I would be happy to say sorry I was out of line.

Larry
 
Larry - My point was that the thread should be moved. It's content is doing nothing for my healing or recovery nor does it address healing or recovery (except for the fact that it is about recvoery weekends). I am not supporting Pablo other than to say he brought up legitimate (not specific) concerns. The board has verified that those concerns were justified. As for the cat-fighting comment, that was directed at Pablo, who seems to want to start a fight , and at Ken, who seemed to take the bait.

I think the conversation should be moved, that's all.
 
I was one of fifteen participants in Male Survivor's First Clergy Sex Abuse Weekend of Recovery in October 2003 at Angel's Rest in Massachusetts.

I had no real knowledge of what it would be about. I knew I needed to get a handle on my various issues and up to that point, had never delved into therapy with a professional.

The very first thing that struck me as 'unusual' was the session that dealt with safety issues. When it was brought up what was expected and what was definitely forbidden, I was mildly aghast. I had never even thought that "no sex among participants" would have even been a consideration or topic of conversation. Yet, I can say now that the safety issues discussion was not only valid but emphasized that facilitators were covering ALL the bases.

I personally felt safe and secure and by the end of the intense recovery weekend, I know in my mind--and heart--that I had fraternally bonded with most of my fellow attendees.

The recovery weekend gave me a means of opening into my 'inner child self.' It also made me vulnerable again--but in a positive way.

I eagerly awaited the news of the second clergy sex abuse survivors recovery weekend. When it was cancelled soon before its start date, I felt re-victimized and depressed. I decided to step away from Male Survivor and I questioned any desire to retain my membership in it. How could such things happen? How could so worthwhile an organization not be totally immune from problems that would threaten its membership?

The answer to that question was obvious: all the policies and rules, etc., in the world may not totally prevent situations from occurring.

When Male Survivor recently announced the fact that recovery weekends would commence again--especially the clergy sex abuse weekend of recovery scheduled for Nov. 2005--it took me less than 10 minutes of e-mail notification to re-activate my membership and financial support.

I cannot fathom anyone putting Male Survivor in the same sentence with the Roman Catholic Church's handling of abuse. Male Survivor's leadership and facilitators have earned my respect and they have carefully undertaken an investigation and "shored up" the areas where the programs were vulnerable.

For me, it is easier to be trusting of those that give of their time and professional accumen in Male Survivor than to trust anyone involved in the Roman Catholic hierarchy. (Oops, I used both Male Survivor and the RC Church in the same sentence...oh, well).
 
No sex between participants? Isn't that obvious? Why would you have to tell people that? Has that ever happened before?
 
Yes it is obvious, but it could be something that worries someone and is on their mind. when there is a collective agreement out in the open it makes everybody's feelings solid.

When we went over the safety rules for our group, we were encouraged to shout out anything we needed listed in order to be safe.
 
I dunno...theres just something freaky about all of this...I don't know if I want to go anymore. What kinds of problems normally happen or have happened in the past?
 
That rule is common to ALL recovery programs where folks are staying together in a dormitory setting. They are simply covering all bases. When people are in very vulnerable situations it is possible for people to connect physically with each other - so the rule is put forth so that everyone understands the ground rules and everyone feels safe that boundaries won't be broken. Again, if you look at the rules of ANY recovery group which includes in-hospital or retreat stay, it's a standard.

SD
 
Fellow Brothers,

I have read a lot of comments back and forth about the retreat 4 the last couple weeks now.

I have gotten scared about what people were saying, but 4 me hell, this whole adventure and most of time a nightmare has scared me to death.

Why not add one more scary thing to the list, the list is getting long, but I am going to the retreat in September along with a lot of other scared guys who have decided to take the plunge and go 4 it. I have been in recovery for 3 years now and I can't wait to get there and continue this journey.

I am tired of being scared, it has been my middle name since I was 4 yrs old.

Got the retreat registration set and my plane reservatioins set last week and I am ready to go.

If u guys wouldn't mind, I would like to turn this post around and hear from guys that ARE going to the retreat and what they are thinking.

Healing_INside
 
I will wait and see what kind of posts, and insight, this one in Salt Lake inspires. And if the 2006 one is on the West Coast. SLC is an easy 1 day trip on my motorcycle. It the itenary were published in advance, it is possible that I could even get my department to pay me.

Like I said, I will wait and watch this year, at my age I can afford that.
 
I have heard nothing but positive things from people who have attended the retreats and conference. Of course, perhaps I have not the same contacts as others here. But everyone I have been in contact with has spoken very highly of them, and how healing and helpful they are.

Good luck and good wishes to all who are going.

Leosha
 
I was thinking of doing the Utah retreat this year, but it just doesn't work out for me this time because of distance and expense. But I did look into it and ask around, and the comments I got expressed only the highest praise and appreciation for the retreats.

Perhaps those who go this time could post here when they return and let us know how it went, highlights, how they benefitted, etc. I think it would be a good idea if we all have a clearer idea of what goes on and what to expect.

Larry
 
For everyone who read Pablo's posts and is maybe having second thoughts about attending a retreat I would like to pass on Murray's reminder to everyone that the retreat where the problem occured was in 2002 and that there have been six very successful retreats since.

Dave
 
When I attended the retreat in Paris Ontario in May 2004 I terrified and excited all at the same time.
I actually went with another participant who I met at the airport. He was, I think, of the same mind as myself. He is an active volunteer of MS. When we got there we met two other survivors who are now active at MS. From that first encounter the panic sort of wilted away with each passing hour. By the end of the retreat none of us wanted it to end. The healing I felt within myself and from others was incredible.

I made several great friendships while I was there that will stay with me for the rest of my life.

All I can say is that it was quite possibly the best thing that happened to me in the past 40 years with the exception of finding Nicole, my ife, and having a daughter Tanya.

If you are waivering between fear of the unknown and a need to go I would recommend going.

On the matter of healing that I referred to. Now I think it is more a realization that the past cannot be changed. Whatever happened did indeed happen. What can and has changed for me is my feelings and beliefs around what happened and the road I took for far too long. As I said before in a post. These feelings,beliefs and emottions were never mine but were pushed on me by (YOU KNOW WHO). Dammit they are good at giving us this cause for the most part it keeps us silent and in the shadows.

Finally I want to reassure all newcomers that MS is here for us all. There is no racism of any sort, be it religion, colour, sexual persuasion, boot size and so on. We are all here for the same thing. To ACTUALLY LIVE LIFE AS WE WERE MEANT TO. I am also grateful for the friends who are part of MS.
 
I have been coming to this site since Memorial Day, when I accidentally saw the movie Mysterious Skin (about male CSA)and was triggered in a major way and helped me to get intouch with buried feelings. Guys in the chat room know that I am not big on the discussion boards, because I hate reading a lot of text on a monitor and I am kindof afraid of sounding stupid with my thoughts. [So I want to thank Pablo for getting me to read 38 messages in a row! Smile.]

I was always the kid that my family didn't want, the one that didn't become a doctor or lawyer and the one that kids picked on constantly. When I disclosed the abuse from my stepfather to my mother and her family, they didn't really believe me and they looked the other way. This caused me to shut down on dealing with the abuse on an emotional level, I have been dealing with it intellectually for twenty-one years. Reading Pablo's posting and the subsequent posts really triggered a lot of feelings in me, because i felt the conflict. Conflict=Risk=Harm=Hurt=DEFENSES in place! I am trying to be more secure around identifying my feelings and expressing them (was actually making progress) and then this Conflict is put in my way. The other day I told someone in the room that I was preparing, with my Therapist, to go to the retreat and he said "awfully early, don't ya think?" I replied that I wanted to work on being more expressive so I could benefit from my major trek across country (NY-->UT) and to build on the progress that I made since Memorial Day. Now I am almost back to Square One and trying to discover how I can trust. So now I have a lot of work to do before September!

Recently I talked with Healing_Inside and I am happy to see that he is going to be at the Utah retreat. I am really looking forward to talking to him face to face and not through the keyboard, because I believe that we have a lot to say to one another. So I suggest that we leave the negative energies from past retreats stay there and build upon the positives that will come from this one. From this day onward!
Vernon
 
I have been coming to this site since Memorial Day, when I accidentally saw the movie Mysterious Skin (about male CSA)and was triggered in a major way and helped me to get intouch with buried feelings. Guys in the chat room know that I am not big on the discussion boards, because I hate reading a lot of text on a monitor and I am kindof afraid of sounding stupid with my thoughts. [So I want to thank Pablo for getting me to read 38 messages in a row! Smile.]

I was always the kid that my family didn't want, the one that didn't become a doctor or lawyer and the one that kids picked on constantly. When I disclosed the abuse from my stepfather to my mother and her family, they didn't really believe me and they looked the other way. This caused me to shut down on dealing with the abuse on an emotional level, I have been dealing with it intellectually for twenty-one years. Reading Pablo's posting and the subsequent posts really triggered a lot of feelings in me, because i felt the conflict. Conflict=Risk=Harm=Hurt=DEFENSES in place! I am trying to be more secure around identifying my feelings and expressing them (was actually making progress) and then this Conflict is put in my way. The other day I told someone in the room that I was preparing, with my Therapist, to go to the retreat and he said "awfully early, don't ya think?" I replied that I wanted to work on being more expressive so I could benefit from my major trek across country (NY-->UT) and to build on the progress that I made since Memorial Day. Now I am almost back to Square One and trying to discover how I can trust. So now I have a lot of work to do before September!

Recently I talked with Healing_Inside and I am happy to see that he is going to be at the Utah retreat. I am really looking forward to talking to him face to face and not through the keyboard, because I believe that we have a lot to say to one another. So I suggest that we leave the negative energies from past retreats stay there and build upon the positives that will come from this one. From this day onward!
Vernon
 
Vernon,

Can't wait to see u in person buddy, WOW how Coooooool. I already have a connection to the retreat and I DONT feel scared anymore.

I rarley go into chat because I don't type to fast and get confused easy and Vernon IM me and we chatted 4 a little while, just a few days ago.

Maybe we can meet at the SLC Airport on arrival day, and have coffee or share a meal together or just sit there and chat.

It really feels good to have someoone to share our fears, our stresses about that weekend and share the exciting things that will happening etc...

We gotta start talking ASAP to sooth each others fears and get excited about our journey in healing.

It would be god to hear from others who have made the committment to go.
 
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