Not your fault

Toad

Registrant
Somewhere out there in the dark sections of the internet are pictures and videos of us.
I was really little and even at the time I couldn’t remember what exactly had happened, but I remember the bright warm lights. It is disturbing that whatever happened to us is probably still out there. I was and am still very good at disassociation and I go back and forth wishing I could remember more, while also wishing to forget the little I do remember. But so far the little I do remember has proved true.

So I wanted to say this to you. I was very little, and you were a much older boy a teenager. But you were used at the same time. I do not remember exactly what we were made to do together. But I feel strongly that you were a victim too.
The people making the videos or pictures were in complete control, not you the older child. So if you were made to do things to me the younger kid, it is not your fault. I did not and do not hold you responsible.
Let me say it again. They were using our bodies. They chose who did what, with what parts. There is nothing you or I could have done. So if you are feeling guilty, or feeling like an abuser. That is not your shame. I absolve you.
Do not worry about me. I am strong. I am a survivor.
 

Healing light

Registrant
Somewhere out there in the dark sections of the internet are pictures and videos of us.
I was really little and even at the time I couldn’t remember what exactly had happened, but I remember the bright warm lights. It is disturbing that whatever happened to us is probably still out there. I was and am still very good at disassociation and I go back and forth wishing I could remember more, while also wishing to forget the little I do remember. But so far the little I do remember has proved true.

So I wanted to say this to you. I was very little, and you were a much older boy a teenager. But you were used at the same time. I do not remember exactly what we were made to do together. But I feel strongly that you were a victim too.
The people making the videos or pictures were in complete control, not you the older child. So if you were made to do things to me the younger kid, it is not your fault. I did not and do not hold you responsible.
Let me say it again. They were using our bodies. They chose who did what, with what parts. There is nothing you or I could have done. So if you are feeling guilty, or feeling like an abuser. That is not your shame. I absolve you.
Do not worry about me. I am strong. I am a survivor.
Hi toad

I know you wrote this a little while back , but I wanted to echo what you wrote. It's was the adults making the choices knowing what they do is terribly wrong that were wrong not those being abused. It's an area of my abuse I don't much talk about its painful.

Peace
HL
 

JayBro

Registrant
Hey Toad,

Thank you for sharing with us your thoughts and your message for your fellow victim during those moments of abuse. For your painful memories and struggles with disassociation I am truly sorry and I stand behind you.Your approach is very enlightened and shows a deep insight along your path to recovery. It is such a common story among survivors that another child victim, one with a longer history of abuse or who is slightly older, is instrumentalised to 'recruit' or manipulate other victims. You are absolutely right, that it is not your co-victim's guilt to carry.

I am also a victim of child abuse imagery and I just cannot fathom anymore the concept of my photos and videos still being out there. There is nothing that we can do. Perhaps, given the intensity and history of police investigations of this crime world wide, our images are catalogued somewhere by trusted law enforcement, Interpol etc., so there is a testament of our suffering and it is also used to help convict these perpetrators and consumers and prevent new ones. Maybe I am being too idealistic? The point is, this is something out of our control and we do not deserve the continual anguish.
 

KMCINVA

Registrant
Hey Todd

I am sorry for what you lived and thank you for sharing. It takes courage to write the words you wrote of the older boy who was with you. Perps know how to groom, control, manipulate and use children. To the abuser it was not abuse, it was a very diabolical perversion as it is with all abuse. Once a party accepts the abuse of others--be it physical, sexual or emotional abuse--through words, support or retaliating against the victim they are as bad as the abuser. In your case, all those that participated in filming the abuse or distributing the films are abusers. Once someone becomes a co-conspirator--either at the time of the abuse or subsequent to the abuse is an abuser. Too many people stand by as someone is being abused, living in denial and unfortunately they begin to accept it as part of life. You are living the truth by recognizing those that were responsible.

An older boy was part of my abuse at times. I remember despising him. He committed suicide a few years after the abuse ended. After Mass my parents offered his parents their condolences and I remember feeling anger at the boy for what he done to me. Today I have sadness for not recognizing what you have recognized sooner in my life, he was a victim and he paid the ultimate, his life. I do hope the older boy realizes he was used and has not fallen trap to accepting the abuser was right. Keep going and yes you are a survivor and thriver.

Kevin
 
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Toad

Registrant
Thanks guys.
Reading through some old posts I could tell the person posting felt shame from what they were made to do to the younger boys. I was one of those younger boys. So I wanted to let anyone who was used to make porn with a younger boy know that it wasn’t their fault. I would love it if the actual boy who was used with me would see this and feel better. I changed my picture to one closer to when it was happening in case they remember me. If you read this feel free to reach out to me.
But I know there isn’t much chance of them seeing it. But it makes me feel better.
 
I doubt that any of my abuse was filmed... that was in the 1940's, but I was "introduced" to sexual matters by older boys who doubtless had been sexualized by their abuser. Your comments help me to remember they too were victims. Of course, it was a three generational family that perpetrated my abuse between the ages of three and seven. That tells the story of how this behavior is perpetuated... father to son, son to sibling to neighbor as the generations move forward. Hopefully, with increasing awareness of the magnitude of this epidemic there will be intervention and the cycle can be broken. Blessedly, I never sexually abused a child. In reality, I was too frightened to have a child. I said to myself it was because of my anger that at times took control of me. I didn't remember the sexual abuse, however, so perhaps that was the real reason. I knew on some level I couldn't possibly be a father.

Thanks again Toad for a very insightful and encouraging post. Ultimately, we all need to be forgiven for what we've done and what we've failed to do simply because we're human.
 
Hey Toad

*** TRIGGERS ***

I hope you weren’t one of the kids I was forced to abuse for the cameras. I even had one kid die because I didn’t do to the mid what I was supposed to do. I was made to tie up a child of about 7 or 8. The kid was small. I had to tie the kid up and lay him over the padded arm of a couch. I was supposed to beat him with a belt or a stick. They would beat the child and then beat me if I wasn‘t hitting hard enough or not doing exactly what the wanted.

They had yelled at me a few times to hit the child harder. Each time they would hit us both. First him then me. Finally they had enough from me and had these two steroid fueled bodybuilders tie me up and laid on the arm of the couch next to the child, ass to ass and started to beat us both. If that is what they wanted I don’t think I could have ever done that to anyone. For one thing that was cruel and second I wasn’t as strong as those animals.

They were told to take us into the gym, aka torture chamber and hang us up. Our arms were separated by some bondage thing about two feet apart at our wrists. Our feet feet were held the same way. We were hung facing each other about ten feet(?) apart so we could watch each other being beaten. They beat the child much more than they beat me. They kept telling me this is what to expect from us if you listen. That I wasn’t listening. That I was a bad boy. They would beat us all over our privates being the main target. Etc.

We were both crying. Then they went ape shit on the child. They would hit him ten times an me once. It seemed to take years. Finally the little kid started gagging trying to catch his breath. Finally he stopped gagging and crying and started pissing, not even a whimper. Then they turned back to me and started hitting me again warning me that I’ll get the same beating if I disobey what they tell me. They let us hang there for what seemed like hours. I never saw the child move or even a whimper after they left the room with only a movie camera rolling. I was still crying and hurting because of the beating. They took the kid down and left me for a little while.

I was put down in a shower and cleaned up then put on the floor in front of a TV. A couple of hours later they took me naked and laid on the floor in the front of the car that picked me up. It was daylight and I was dumped in the parking lot in back of a department store called A&S (Abrabam & Strouse).

Being dumped naked someplace even miles from my parent’s house. I would find my clothes in the bushes in front of my parents house.

I was only 14 by 3 months or there about when this happened. I was to endure this kind of shit for a little more than1-1/2 years every Tuesday after I got off the city bus. I am haunted by this. I wake up in a sweat or from pissing or shitting the bed. It’s very hard for me to explain the feelings I have when this happens. There are times I’m afraid to go to sleep in the same bed as my wife.

Yes, it wasn’t my fault as people would say but I know that If I would have done what the animals told me to do the kid would be alive. It haunts me. That was the first and last time I saw a child die.

Everything was recorded as a movie and also by a guy with a still camera. From what I found out about a year ago was that there was 5 places on Long Island, NY. that did this. I don’t know to which of these places I was taken. This type of shit most probable went on every day all day and night. I can only cry when I think at how many kids went through stuff like I did at these places. One thing I do know is that there was no sympathy for a child's life. The memories of what was done to me or what I did to other “small” childre will never leave me. The child that day was a beautiful child. Long light brown hair and brown eyes. When this ended his hair was matted in blood. His body was ...

I have to stop here, it’s getting a little to hard to write more
 

Toad

Registrant
Hi Jeff.

Sorry for what you went through. You are in no way responsible for that child’s death. They wanted you to beat him to death and you refused. Good for you. That they recorded it means they had an audience for it. Unfortunately snuff films are still made and recorded. They wanted to make you feel responsible for their actions. You did the right thing.

I was in Texas so we likely never crossed paths.
Unfortunately, this is everywhere and it is still being made.
People who watch child porn and the people who make it are wholly responsible for it. Not the kids it is happening too, and not you.
 

Healing light

Registrant
I was the younger child I don't blame the older children
My uncle received a large sentence ( for UK ) for child exploitation. After his arrest many more people were arrested for possession of child pornography the vast majority received community sentences I was raging then like I am now about that.
It's not a place I have been to in therapy but when I read here I know I'm not alone.
One day I might be able to tell my story in this safe place thinks you're both brave sharing yours

Peace
HL
 
Hey Toad,

Every picture or movie that was taken of you in a porno shoot is on the net. In the ‘60s you were able to buy boy magazine on newsstands on the streets of manhattan. Those were not pictures of kids being abused with sticks or anything but rather naked kids going swimming or wrestling and some such things. Me and my boyfriend Bobby would be taken to photographers who did both kinds of pictures. One for the magazines and one for the sick. I remember Bobby and I looking at our pictures in the magazines and trying to find some of the street kids we knew.

A couple of years ago I was trying to find pictures of me on the net. I never went on a pay site but I did find a few doing a simple Goggle search. My T told me not to look for my picks anymore. There were thousands of pictures take of me by porn photogs. I’m sure they are all on there somewhere. I’m sure that the movies taken of that child dying is out there someplace. From what I’ve read the “dark net” has everything.

Bobby and I used to play stickball at a local playground in the west village. We would play with the local street kids. From time to time one of those kids wouldn’t be there. We figured he just moved on. Now knowing more about what went on back then they could have been sold, killed or even suicide. We weren’t allowed in the subways or north of 14rh street because we could just disappear. We were ‘t allowed in the public toilets either.

Papasan who was my surrogate father never put us on the street. I guess you could say we were like an escort service. There was 4 of us in the apartment and the other two who were my age worked the street but those kids were real street kids, Bobby who was a year younger than me was also very naive just like me and papasan always told us to be careful that we don't disappear. I’ve heard numbers like $250 for a night, $500 if the guy picks me up after school. I was even told I could bring in for papasan $1,000 or more for a weekend. I never handled the money between papasan and the john so I don’t know much about how much people paid to get into my pants. But hearing the numbers since I fell apart in 2011 Bobby and I brought in some real money. I used to get like a $20 tip. If both Bobby and I went with someone we could get $50 tip. I never walked around with more than $20 in my pocket so if I got ripped off I would lose just $20. After leaving the game at 24 and getting married at 26 I had $22k, $15 of which came from tips.
 
Hey Healing Light

You came to the right place. You have enough resources and other people to help you sort out things. I was in the game my whole childhood, went into the USAF in '69. During leave I went back to papasan and did some work for him. I came out active duty in '72 and got my discharge in '75. I was in the game till 24. I looked like I was 16. I didn't have a hair on my face till maybe 24 so I had work even after active duty ended. When I crashed in January 4, 2011 I started drinking etc. A friend of mine (my only friend) got me to watch 2 episodes of the Oprah show with the audience of 200 guys who were abused as kids. From there I found the resources to come here, that was June 11, 2011. I was also scared to open my mouth about what I was involved in. At the beginning I didn't want to open up to what I did. Slowly I opened up. MS was a lifesaver for me. I go to two therapists every week. I think that if I didn't have a shrink for meds and the a therapist to talk to I wouldn't be here. And it was here that started on my way for help. I still think that I have a long way to go but I'm here and I'm breathing. The comradery here is to help one another.

You came to the right place. It's great to meet you.
 

Healing light

Registrant
Hey Healing Light

You came to the right place. You have enough resources and other people to help you sort out things. I was in the game my whole childhood, went into the USAF in '69. During leave I went back to papasan and did some work for him. I came out active duty in '72 and got my discharge in '75. I was in the game till 24. I looked like I was 16. I didn't have a hair on my face till maybe 24 so I had work even after active duty ended. When I crashed in January 4, 2011 I started drinking etc. A friend of mine (my only friend) got me to watch 2 episodes of the Oprah show with the audience of 200 guys who were abused as kids. From there I found the resources to come here, that was June 11, 2011. I was also scared to open my mouth about what I was involved in. At the beginning I didn't want to open up to what I did. Slowly I opened up. MS was a lifesaver for me. I go to two therapists every week. I think that if I didn't have a shrink for meds and the a therapist to talk to I wouldn't be here. And it was here that started on my way for help. I still think that I have a long way to go but I'm here and I'm breathing. The comradery here is to help one another.

You came to the right place. It's great to meet you.
Hey
Thanks for your post and for sharing I'm in a better place since joining here for sure reading some and sharing some. I'm in therapy , has my doctor and phsychiatrist. And all the labels that comes with that but gets you the meds which I'm grateful for.
I was groomed to be exploited along with other boys related to me. I remember from age 3 , An easy pick or offered up by my father who knows. Boundaries were carefully eroded by my uncle, I'm sure some photos were to advertise us , some for him and some to sell. As I hit puberty an older cousin employed grooming tactics a plenty he abused me in every way for the 17 years that followed until my disclosure and for many years if he gave me drugs I sold them , something to look after I did that drugs , money , a gun ,wasn't many ways out In my head sometimes he gave me money or things more so when I was younger.
It's dark stuff , some of it I don't know how to word. Some stuff i still haven't shredded the shame of
Here I am still fighting. But not alone.
Certainly came to the right place
Nice to meet you
Peace
HL
 

Healing light

Registrant
Hey lapchinj

I'm glad ms was recommended to me.
I thinks it's very needed to have a community like this
Sometimes I'm just reading , sometimes I take a break to deal with some stuff.
It's a place your not alone in surviving and what comes with that
All fighting our own fights.
Peace
HL
 
Hey Healing Light

I think a lot of people like me go away for a time and then come back. Then repeat.

This is the best community around to help survive our past
 

JayBro

Registrant
Welcome to MS, Healing Light.
I hope that being a part of this community may be able to aid you in your recovery journey and make you feel less alone.
 

Tom E.

Registrant
Hey Toad

*** TRIGGERS ***

I hope you weren’t one of the kids I was forced to abuse for the cameras. I even had one kid die because I didn’t do to the mid what I was supposed to do. I was made to tie up a child of about 7 or 8. The kid was small. I had to tie the kid up and lay him over the padded arm of a couch. I was supposed to beat him with a belt or a stick. They would beat the child and then beat me if I wasn‘t hitting hard enough or not doing exactly what the wanted.

They had yelled at me a few times to hit the child harder. Each time they would hit us both. First him then me. Finally they had enough from me and had these two steroid fueled bodybuilders tie me up and laid on the arm of the couch next to the child, ass to ass and started to beat us both. If that is what they wanted I don’t think I could have ever done that to anyone. For one thing that was cruel and second I wasn’t as strong as those animals.

They were told to take us into the gym, aka torture chamber and hang us up. Our arms were separated by some bondage thing about two feet apart at our wrists. Our feet feet were held the same way. We were hung facing each other about ten feet(?) apart so we could watch each other being beaten. They beat the child much more than they beat me. They kept telling me this is what to expect from us if you listen. That I wasn’t listening. That I was a bad boy. They would beat us all over our privates being the main target. Etc.

We were both crying. Then they went ape shit on the child. They would hit him ten times an me once. It seemed to take years. Finally the little kid started gagging trying to catch his breath. Finally he stopped gagging and crying and started pissing, not even a whimper. Then they turned back to me and started hitting me again warning me that I’ll get the same beating if I disobey what they tell me. They let us hang there for what seemed like hours. I never saw the child move or even a whimper after they left the room with only a movie camera rolling. I was still crying and hurting because of the beating. They took the kid down and left me for a little while.

I was put down in a shower and cleaned up then put on the floor in front of a TV. A couple of hours later they took me naked and laid on the floor in the front of the car that picked me up. It was daylight and I was dumped in the parking lot in back of a department store called A&S (Abrabam & Strouse).

Being dumped naked someplace even miles from my parent’s house. I would find my clothes in the bushes in front of my parents house.

I was only 14 by 3 months or there about when this happened. I was to endure this kind of shit for a little more than1-1/2 years every Tuesday after I got off the city bus. I am haunted by this. I wake up in a sweat or from pissing or shitting the bed. It’s very hard for me to explain the feelings I have when this happens. There are times I’m afraid to go to sleep in the same bed as my wife.

Yes, it wasn’t my fault as people would say but I know that If I would have done what the animals told me to do the kid would be alive. It haunts me. That was the first and last time I saw a child die.

Everything was recorded as a movie and also by a guy with a still camera. From what I found out about a year ago was that there was 5 places on Long Island, NY. that did this. I don’t know to which of these places I was taken. This type of shit most probable went on every day all day and night. I can only cry when I think at how many kids went through stuff like I did at these places. One thing I do know is that there was no sympathy for a child's life. The memories of what was done to me or what I did to other “small” childre will never leave me. The child that day was a beautiful child. Long light brown hair and brown eyes. When this ended his hair was matted in blood. His body was ...

I have to stop here, it’s getting a little to hard to write more
This is so horrific I just can't fathom it. I sorry you endured such torture. I'm glad you survived & shared it.That other poor boy.... I hoope those perps burn in hell for eternity. I'm sorry, it's so upsetting.
 

Healing light

Registrant
To everyone that was abused by someone like me

I was trafficked from the age of 8 until 24 when I just left that life. I never said goodbye to anyone. I tried to start my life over from scratch. I met new people, new county, new everything except my memories that have stayed with me since then. On January 4, 2011 my past came crashing down on me. The worst part is when I was 14 for a 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 years I spent every Tuesday at the movies. I was made to understand that coming on time from school (or wherever) was not negotiable. One Tuesday towards the beginning of the movies I was late because I was busy with my gymnastic routines. I do not have the words that could express the beating I got the following Tuesday. I was never late again.

I remember the little children very well. While I don’t know their ages I was able to compare sizes with my grandchildren. I know there were children as young as 5. I do know very vividly that when you hit a young child that child cries. If the child is hit very hard the child just can’t catch his breath. This sticks in my mind like glue. With me no matter how hard I was beaten I didn’t cry. The tears would flow out of my eyes though. If I was told to cry I cried. If I was told to scream then I screamed. I was 14 and I was only 100lbs so I wasn’t big. I was very strong for my age but that didn't help me any. I was beaten, cut and pushed around like a bean bag. But I wouldn't make a sound unless I was instructed to. But a 5 year old child will really cry and it can’t be stopped.

This thread lets me feel how the child reacted to things I was forced to do. After I got married I had 6 kids. Five boys and a girl. I was unable to hold any of my children in the hospital after they were born. I would tell the nurses I'm scared I will drop them. I wasn't afraid of dropping them I was afraid of the child. I was never able to play with them. I was never able to help them with their homework. Never rolled around on the front lawn with them. I used to spend all my time after work in my dungeon in the basement of my house. This continues till today. I spend my time in my dungeon. My second oldest has 2 girls and 2 boys. I could not hold them either in the hospital when they were born. I cannot play with them. I cannot be with them. It just brings back how I beat, tied up, raped, etc. I hear them talk about when they go over to their other grandparents and how well the grandfather can play spit with them or build Lego things. It hurts.

I stop my car watching little league practice where grown men would show kids how to play baseball. Looking at happy children, children having fun. I sit in my car and watch a parent walking on the sidewalk hand in hand with their child. I was never able to do that. (I have tears in my eyes while I write this). When I became a father and I was in the hospital I could not hold my first born or any of my other children or grandchildren. It is a feeling I will never experience. I’m still in my dungeon. It’s been 40 years. I look across the street and watch fathers playing catch or throwing water balloons at each other. It's something I always wanted but will never have. 40 years in this fuck'n dungeon.

I cry for what you guys went through and what I did to children your age. My abuse started at 8 but only in pictures being taken of me and my boyfriend Lanny. By ten I was able to shoplift toys I was never able to have. No matter what we shoplifted, glue was always on our shopping list.

I tried to commit suicide twice during this time of the movies. I was 14-1/2. The first time made me very sick, the second time there was just a lot of blood. Papasan saved me both times.

I don't know if any of you ever thought of how precious it would be to hug a young child. To be able to give a good night kiss to or even read them a bedtime story. I would give a mountain of gold for even one kiss.

This thread is very hard for me to get through. I have to stop here for now. I wish you all well and I'm glad that you all came here to MS to share and to heal. You are all survivors.
I'm sorry for what u went through you are a survivor also

I was in my teens just about to marry when my brother held out my first nephew to me "hey Bruva your an uncle look" my reply. "Very nice im going now "
I could not cope with that title , just a few weeks ago I became an uncle again my siblings have not gone easy on me in the years in between I have been given the title many times they now know I struggle with it the new baby was passed to my partner first , I had hoped after all the practice now I would be able to put it all aside and take the title with pride but I couldn't
Being an uncle terrifys me.

I'm have one bio son and one son that's my partner's bio son
too these two boys I'm dad part of the reason I'm here on ms is them two I want and need to be the best I can be for them and I offen feel like I'm winging it because I has no idea how to be a dad

I thought you was brave sharing what you did it's hard to watch from the sidelines of life wondering how u be part of that is my experience

Peace
HL
 
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