NEW - Fiance is a survivor.

NEW - Fiance is a survivor.
T

TKingger

Registrant
I am new to this forum My finance is a survivor. He was sexually abused for about four years from about 7 to 11 years old by an older man that lived with his family. He has triggers and we work hard at trying not to set them off. How do I best support him? How to do I best support myself and understand these things are not my fault? How does a survivor view sex and intimacy? I was sexually abused by a male family member for about six months around eight years old, so I do understand some feelings, but no where near the impact that my finace experienced. How does being abused by another male effect a man and how he views himself? My finace appears very homophobic and gets rather angry and grossed out when he sees gay male couples. Can anyone help with any of this? I want to be the best and supportive partner I can be. I am marrying this man next summer. He is my world. I want to make sure I can be his safe place and strength when he needs it.
 
Hey @TKingger,

Thanks for joining. Glad to have you here. There may be some good topics to peruse on the Friends & Family forum. But some thoughts for you. FYI - my wife knew of my CSA, and the consequences of it, before we got married. So we were in much the same place as you. She had the added complication though, that my abuser was my dad. She has seemed to manage that pretty well though. We have been married for 23 years - but it was only last year that I provided any details, and that I started to work on some of the root issues of the trauma. I had no idea the depth of the consequences on me but had learned to adapt and get by. Some thoughts on your questions:
  • How do I best support him?
    • Be patient, listen and understand, but be persistent and don't give up. There will be times you might need to completely back off and just be understanding, and there might be times you need to encourage
    • When you talk about the struggles you have, make sure and put things in the context of your relationship (both of you). If you simply express how you are feeling (negative feelings), it will be easy for him to get defensive and shut down. Because he will think any failures of intimacy in your relationship are his - and he will not know how to overcome them (likely will be something he's struggled with for a long time)
    • If he will let you, comfort him when he falls apart - if he's able to fall apart with you (hopefully he is)
  • How to do I best support myself and understand these things are not my fault?
    • This is going to be a difficult one. We struggle with this a bit one. I think the best thing I can say here is just know he's got a lot to work through and these things aren't your fault. You'll have to fight your feelings, however, because it may very much feel like it is your fault
    • Don't give up trying though, even if you want to. And make sure and communicate if you give him space. It's a conundrum. We want and long for intimacy too, but have a huge struggle getting past the roadblocks to it. Most people in his life have probably given up, but that just reinforces his feelings of failure in this area
  • How does a survivor view sex and intimacy?
    • Consciously, he may think he's fine. But likely, he struggles with fear of both sex & intimacy
    • Something that really helps me is making an emotional connection as a lead-up to sex. Sex, just for sex's sake - is very scary. That's what we experienced as boys - someone using us. This has caused problems for my wife and I because (naturally & rightly) she may just want to get physical, and my default reaction is not to lean into that, but to push away. And that will send you the wrong message
    • Two roadblocks to intimacy I have found out through counseling: fear of sex & intimacy itself (described above), and fear of losing my wife. I have a lot of issues with loss, and of loss of those close to me in particular
  • How does being abused by another male effect a man and how he views himself?
    • Shame - being ashamed. This comes with the territory 9 times out of 10. Shame about what happened. Shame about (maybe) enjoying the physical feelings of what happened, shame about either wanting to or actually re-enacting the abuse
    • Sexual identity confusion. Same sex attraction is almost 100% a consequence of childhood sexual abuse for boys. This causes lots of confusion about sexual identity. Also, when the abuse occurred, we were "frozen" in time - and the natural development of things like sexual identity stopped. For a lot of guys, through therapy, they find that they don't really have same-sex attraction, but rather it is a direct result of what happened developmentally in their brains because of the abuse. Once they process through that trauma with a qualified therapist, the same-sex attraction may dwindle significantly. Other guys determine they are bi or homosexual at some point. There is a big debate on this site whether those who are gay were "made" that way by the abuse or not - there is no universal answer to this question
    • Powerless and questioning why? Why didn't they fight back? Why didn't they say no. If they have a history of seeking to re-enact the abuse like almost every guy does, then also why did I go seek that out?
  • My fiance appears very homophobic and gets rather angry and grossed out when he sees gay male couples. Can anyone help with any of this?
    • Kind of addressed this above. He likely has a lot of anger / rage about what happened still inside him - towards the abuser and also towards himself. If he does struggle at all with same-sex attraction, he is likely fighting a huge conflict internally - about how he hated what that man did to him, while trying to reconcile the fact he has thought replaying the abuse and possibly getting aroused by it
    • Once he understands the root of his thoughts aren't because he's gay, this will likely subside
Is he getting therapy to process through his trauma with a therapist qualified in trauma and childhood sexual abuse? If not, it will help him more than anything. Just know - therapy brings a lot of locked up feelings to the surface and it is very hard not to let it affect you and your interactions with others. But the end is worth walking through that.

My wife and I had pre-marital counseling with the man who was my therapist at the time. He encouraged my wife to talk to someone as well, which she did. The woman she saw told her basically to drop me like a lead balloon. My counselor told us both he thought we should wait for marriage - unless we really believed it was a God thing. We talked after that session, and prayed, and both believed it was a God thing. After 23 years and two kids, I know it definitely was a God - and a good - thing. But know what you are in for. If you love him regardless - that's great :) You will figure out how to navigate all this and your relationship will be stronger for it. Again - the three things I would tell you the most: 1) make any conversations about your own struggles in the areas of sex / intimacy - about "us" (the both of you working towards changing), and 2) take the time to develop the emotional atmosphere before heading into sex, 3) if he has issues "performing" make sure and extend a ton of grace. Even if it happens repeatedly. Fear of failure can become a huge roadblock too. Many guys can start into sex, and then get totally distracted by memories and thoughts of the abuse - which definitely kills the moment.
 
Welcome! I couldn't have offered a better response than that posted by MO-Survivor above. I've been married 19 years & have 2 children. The only difference in my situation is that I didn't disclose anything to my wife until earlier this year. It has been a long & difficult journey since, but ultimately being vulnerable to her & showing emotion has only strengthened our relationship. I would reiterate that you need to be patient with your fiancée, but also make sure & take care of yourself. You mentioned that you too were abused in childhood. Don't underestimate the impact of your own experience (trauma) & get yourself help too, if you are not in therapy already I would strongly encourage you to do so.

Lastly, take time to look around & read some of the posts here on MS. I think you'll find both the survivor stories as well as the family/friends stories helpful in answering some of your questions. If either of you like to read there are also some good books out there on the subject (Men Too: Unspoken Truths About Male Sexual Abuse by Kelli Palfy & Don't Tell: The Sexual Abuse of Boys by Michel Dorais). My wife & I have read both of these & been able to have some very open & honest conversations as a result. I would also recommend checking out 1in6.org for additional resources. Be kind to yourself & to him, & I hope you don't mind me saying that he is lucky to have someone like you that is taking the initiative to here asking these questions.
 
MO-Survivor said:
Hey @TKingger,

Thanks for joining. Glad to have you here. There may be some good topics to peruse on the Friends & Family forum. But some thoughts for you. FYI - my wife knew of my CSA, and the consequences of it, before we got married. So we were in much the same place as you. She had the added complication though, that my abuser was my dad. She has seemed to manage that pretty well though. We have been married for 23 years - but it was only last year that I provided any details, and that I started to work on some of the root issues of the trauma. I had no idea the depth of the consequences on me but had learned to adapt and get by. Some thoughts on your questions:
  • How do I best support him?
    • Be patient, listen and understand, but be persistent and don't give up. There will be times you might need to completely back off and just be understanding, and there might be times you need to encourage
    • When you talk about the struggles you have, make sure and put things in the context of your relationship (both of you). If you simply express how you are feeling (negative feelings), it will be easy for him to get defensive and shut down. Because he will think any failures of intimacy in your relationship are his - and he will not know how to overcome them (likely will be something he's struggled with for a long time)
    • If he will let you, comfort him when he falls apart - if he's able to fall apart with you (hopefully he is)
  • How to do I best support myself and understand these things are not my fault?
    • This is going to be a difficult one. We struggle with this a bit one. I think the best thing I can say here is just know he's got a lot to work through and these things aren't your fault. You'll have to fight your feelings, however, because it may very much feel like it is your fault
    • Don't give up trying though, even if you want to. And make sure and communicate if you give him space. It's a conundrum. We want and long for intimacy too, but have a huge struggle getting past the roadblocks to it. Most people in his life have probably given up, but that just reinforces his feelings of failure in this area
  • How does a survivor view sex and intimacy?
    • Consciously, he may think he's fine. But likely, he struggles with fear of both sex & intimacy
    • Something that really helps me is making an emotional connection as a lead-up to sex. Sex, just for sex's sake - is very scary. That's what we experienced as boys - someone using us. This has caused problems for my wife and I because (naturally & rightly) she may just want to get physical, and my default reaction is not to lean into that, but to push away. And that will send you the wrong message
    • Two roadblocks to intimacy I have found out through counseling: fear of sex & intimacy itself (described above), and fear of losing my wife. I have a lot of issues with loss, and of loss of those close to me in particular
  • How does being abused by another male effect a man and how he views himself?
    • Shame - being ashamed. This comes with the territory 9 times out of 10. Shame about what happened. Shame about (maybe) enjoying the physical feelings of what happened, shame about either wanting to or actually re-enacting the abuse
    • Sexual identity confusion. Same sex attraction is almost 100% a consequence of childhood sexual abuse for boys. This causes lots of confusion about sexual identity. Also, when the abuse occurred, we were "frozen" in time - and the natural development of things like sexual identity stopped. For a lot of guys, through therapy, they find that they don't really have same-sex attraction, but rather it is a direct result of what happened developmentally in their brains because of the abuse. Once they process through that trauma with a qualified therapist, the same-sex attraction may dwindle significantly. Other guys determine they are bi or homosexual at some point. There is a big debate on this site whether those who are gay were "made" that way by the abuse or not - there is no universal answer to this question
    • Powerless and questioning why? Why didn't they fight back? Why didn't they say no. If they have a history of seeking to re-enact the abuse like almost every guy does, then also why did I go seek that out?
  • My fiance appears very homophobic and gets rather angry and grossed out when he sees gay male couples. Can anyone help with any of this?
    • Kind of addressed this above. He likely has a lot of anger / rage about what happened still inside him - towards the abuser and also towards himself. If he does struggle at all with same-sex attraction, he is likely fighting a huge conflict internally - about how he hated what that man did to him, while trying to reconcile the fact he has thought replaying the abuse and possibly getting aroused by it
    • Once he understands the root of his thoughts aren't because he's gay, this will likely subside
Is he getting therapy to process through his trauma with a therapist qualified in trauma and childhood sexual abuse? If not, it will help him more than anything. Just know - therapy brings a lot of locked up feelings to the surface and it is very hard not to let it affect you and your interactions with others. But the end is worth walking through that.

My wife and I had pre-marital counseling with the man who was my therapist at the time. He encouraged my wife to talk to someone as well, which she did. The woman she saw told her basically to drop me like a lead balloon. My counselor told us both he thought we should wait for marriage - unless we really believed it was a God thing. We talked after that session, and prayed, and both believed it was a God thing. After 23 years and two kids, I know it definitely was a God - and a good - thing. But know what you are in for. If you love him regardless - that's great :) You will figure out how to navigate all this and your relationship will be stronger for it. Again - the three things I would tell you the most: 1) make any conversations about your own struggles in the areas of sex / intimacy - about "us" (the both of you working towards changing), and 2) take the time to develop the emotional atmosphere before heading into sex, 3) if he has issues "performing" make sure and extend a ton of grace. Even if it happens repeatedly. Fear of failure can become a huge roadblock too. Many guys can start into sex, and then get totally distracted by memories and thoughts of the abuse - which definitely kills the moment.
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I cannot begin to tell you how you've hit the nail on the head of each of my questions. Thank you. My finance has engaged in a lot of therapy and he is honest with my (as much as I think he can) with what happened to him. Hes very brave and I am honored that he trusts me as much as he does to share with me all that he has. I am very patient and understanding. From what I am told, women in his past have not understood and reacted badly towards him whenever he had a trigger or poor or lack of performance sexually. It makes him angry when this happens between us and I know he is embarrassed. I always stay calm and comfort him as much as he lets me. On the other side, I feel undesired and unattractive. In his past, he described himself as a womanizer. It doesnt seem like he has a fear of sex. From the stories, it sounds like he has many many women, but not real long term relationships. Hes had a few 1 year relationships, but nothing long term. Can you advise? He told me once that hes had many embarrassing sexual moments with women. I guess what I dont understand is how he can be so uncomfortable about sex and intimacy but be a womanizer and sleeping around a lot. How do you explain that? I addition he used to fight a lot and drink a lot.

I love your advice about approaching everything as a "we." That makes perfect sense and may help talking to him about sex better. Its a topic he refuses to discuss but every once and a while hes open to it. I'd love to expand our love life but I am terrified to trigger him. So I simply don't. Then I fool myself into thinking that he finds me boring or perhaps hed rather be with someone from his past. Perhaps they excited him more. Its a vicious cycle.

I don't feel he has gay tendencies, however sometimes he will say something like "if I were gay, I would or wouldnt want a guy that look like so and so". Which leads me to believe those feelings are in there somewhere. Which again, makes me question his desire for me.

I'm so glad I've reached out and joined this group. I look forward to searching through and reading more and connecting with more people I similar situations. To comment on your first paragraph. I will never give up on him. He is the strongest and more amazing person I've ever met. I always want to be his safe place and is pillar. I feel understanding his experience and feelings is the best way to do that.
 
@TKingger I am so sorry for what you happened to you when you were young and what happened to your fiance.

Sexuality is a difficult topic. I was abused when I was eight and it hijacked my sexuality. 100% of my sexual bandwidth for decades was consumed by my desire to reenact my abuse. When I was addicted to porn it was gay porn of my abuse. And even when I gave up porn every fantasy was about reenacting my abuse. So you can imagine I was confused about my sexuality. It was only through healing this year and stopping the abuse fantasies that I finally understood my sexuality.

His desire for you is a complicated topic. It could be that his previous womanizing was when he was in a different stage of recovery. It could be he was in denial about the abuse or trying to prove he isn't gay by womanizing. So if he doesn't come onto you as much as he may in the past likely has nothing to do with you. My wife is just as desirable in the past as she is today. But our intimacy is dramatically better now than ever because I have healed so much. So all those years I held back sexually had nothing to do with her.

This is such a difficult journey you are on. I wish you both strength.
 
I can absolutely see how you would be confused and how he could be on some level as well. I'm honestly not sure he'd ever admit it to me. You must of had such a hard long journey. And your wife must be a very sensitive and understanding woman.

I can totally see and understand how womanizing may have been a tool to prove his "manhood" or manliness in the past. Because of his abuse, he must always initiate any sexual interaction or he goes into defense mode. He turns 50 this month, so his drive isnt what it once was either I'm sure. My finace told me today, "this may sound harsh, but I don't care too much about sex. I care about coming home to my best friend every day." Could he just have little or no desire altogether? We have a healthy sex life (2-3 times a week). I have a hard time understanding he spent year chasing tail and he just doesnt do that with me.
 
TKingger said:
I can totally see and understand how womanizing may have been a tool to prove his "manhood" or manliness in the past. Because of his abuse, he must always initiate any sexual interaction or he goes into defense mode. He turns 50 this month, so his drive isnt what it once was either I'm sure. My finace told me today, "this may sound harsh, but I don't care too much about sex. I care about coming home to my best friend every day." Could he just have little or no desire altogether? We have a healthy sex life (2-3 times a week). I have a hard time understanding he spent year chasing tail and he just doesnt do that with me.
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The trauma of CSA for men comes with pain, feelings that have nowhere to go, and a lack of resolution because the trauma isn't addressed. But the pain, the loneliness, the loss and accompanying sadness and grief inevitably rises to the surface again and again. And when it does, the typical male response is to numb the pain with something that feels good. That can be sex, that can be alcohol, that can be drugs, that can be mental fantasy (the mental fantasies of replaying abuse with different outcomes can also be a way to release some of the anger / rage that is buried deeply).

When he was chasing tail for all those years, keep in mind it wasn't healthy sex. It was pretty dysfunctional, and it ended poorly because of that fact. It is no wonder he couldn't maintain intimacy or relationship during those years. What he had was an unhealthy coping response to his CSA trauma.

What you have with him is way better and different. You are patient, are trying to understand, and want to work with him while he is trying to heal. You are trying to establish real intimacy which involves more than just attraction and sex. You can't compare what he did all those years to what you all have now. That said, your need to be wanted and to be desired physically and non-physically is a legitimate need and is a built-in part of committed, adult sexual relationships.

As I write all of this, I can tell you @TKingger - this is all what I know to be true. But like your fiancé, this is not the most healed part of me in my relationship with my wife. Like your fiancé, I am in my 50s - and yes, testosterone levels and desire have definitely decreased over time. Also, like your fiancé, I can tell you the default setting is this: intimacy and sexual intimacy are a huge wall to climb - each and every time. And it's easy to just decide that we would rather embrace what we have (friendship, emotional intimacy, etc.) than try to climb that huge wall. The crazy thing is, I can cognitively look back at times of physical intimacy and know that not only did I survive, but those experiences were so great. But it takes me deciding to be brave enough to be willing to put in the effort required to climb the wall.

So not sure if any of that knowledge really helps or not. The only thing that will help is if you are both committed to growing your relationship together, of working toward conquering the hill of intimacy together. For you, it will require much patience & understanding, and an ability to not internalize any "problems" that come up as a reflection on you (they won't be), and for him it will require much bravery and a willingness to try in spite of the size of the wall he sees in front of him every time you try to initiate intimacy. Like @BelovedSon said - this is a hard, difficult journey you are both on. But it is definitely possible.
 
Thank you so much for your response. It broke me down in tears. I have a hard time accepting his womanizing at times even though his sexual past is none of my business. Being compared to a handful of women is one thing but being compared to hundreds is another. Just reading what you wrote is something I've longed to heard and believe to be true. That there is no comparison to his past tail chasing and what we have now and the life we are building together. Your explanation about climbing a wall towards intimacy is hard helps me to understand his challenges as well. I've noticed the last few days he's expressed more intimate moments with me. Small but to me felt huge. He held my hand for a walk in the park. We were at an outdoor concert and he stood behind me with his arms around me. He kissed me in the swimming pool with someone else in the room (public affection isnt comfortable with him). They seem like such small every day things that all relationships should have, but for him, I know they are hard. I told him I noticed his level of comfort increasing and how special it made me feel. He agreed it's very hard for him. Perhaps I shouldnt have told him that but I wanted him to know that it meant the world to me to have those little intimate moments with him. I am a very patience, understanding and compassionate person. I feel guilty for the need for my own support in our relationship, but I do. Your words and insights mean so much and are very helpful. He told me today that he thought our relationship is perfect, which tells me how comfortable he feels with me and I'm honored. However, I don't want to me an old comfortable reliable shoe either. I want to know and understand he is with me for more reasons than comfort. He is worth all the time and effort in the world. I'm not going anywhere. I just need to find that confidence within myself somehow to help me support him and us.
 
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@TKingger - what a great post. He is making conscious decisions and effort to show you affection and care. And telling him what you did - that's great encouragement and I imagine it will help him vs. adding any pressure or anything. He needs to know the small affectionate gestures are meaningful to you. And you're not an old comfortable reliable shoe :) I'm sure he doesn't think or feel that. Sounds like you all have a really good foundation to build on!
 
We do have a pretty solid foundation. We are both straight forward and honest. We communicate very well aside from him not being comfortable talking about sex. You mentioned that being intimate is a wall to climb each and every time. Could you expand on that? Is it a challenge each and every time you engage in sex with your wife? Is sex something that comes with more stress than pleasure? Is that something he may be experiencing? My fiance seems comfortable when we are intimate. It seems as though he struggles more with intimacy than sex itself. He can become distracted easily and there has been a trigger here and there. I've learned where to touch and not to touch etc to try and avoid triggers. For example, kissing him on the cheek is a trigger for him, so I do my best to not do it, which I find difficult at times. Its just a simple habit and sign of affection to me. To him its something else. I find it's the tenderness and closeness that he finds most difficult. I could be wrong and sex is equally as hard for him, but that what it seems to me.
 
Hiding from Myself said:
Welcome! I couldn't have offered a better response than that posted by MO-Survivor above. I've been married 19 years & have 2 children. The only difference in my situation is that I didn't disclose anything to my wife until earlier this year. It has been a long & difficult journey since, but ultimately being vulnerable to her & showing emotion has only strengthened our relationship. I would reiterate that you need to be patient with your fiancée, but also make sure & take care of yourself. You mentioned that you too were abused in childhood. Don't underestimate the impact of your own experience (trauma) & get yourself help too, if you are not in therapy already I would strongly encourage you to do so.

Lastly, take time to look around & read some of the posts here on MS. I think you'll find both the survivor stories as well as the family/friends stories helpful in answering some of your questions. If either of you like to read there are also some good books out there on the subject (Men Too: Unspoken Truths About Male Sexual Abuse by Kelli Palfy & Don't Tell: The Sexual Abuse of Boys by Michel Dorais). My wife & I have read both of these & been able to have some very open & honest conversations as a result. I would also recommend checking out 1in6.org for additional resources. Be kind to yourself & to him, & I hope you don't mind me saying that he is lucky to have someone like you that is taking the initiative to here asking these questions.
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Thank you for the book suggestions! I am looking into getting them now. My finace is a wonderful man with a painful past. I am honored to soon be his wife. The more I learn and understand about his experience and feelings, the better I can love and support him. You're very kind to say he's lucky. I feel I am the lucky one, but we have our challenges and I will do what it takes to help him and myself through this journey together. We are a team. From what he's told me, none of his exes have tried to understand or be compassionate towards him. They've even gotten angry and blamed him, which blows my mind. He said he's has numerous very embarrassing sexual experiences with women in his past. He did not elaborate and I did not push.

I'm very encouraged and appreciating the support and insights on here already. I'm so glad I joined. I am a big reader especially with self help, so I'm looking forward to getting the books you recommended. Perhaps we can discuss the books once I've had a chance to read them.
 
TKingger said:
We do have a pretty solid foundation. We are both straight forward and honest. We communicate very well aside from him not being comfortable talking about sex. You mentioned that being intimate is a wall to climb each and every time. Could you expand on that? Is it a challenge each and every time you engage in sex with your wife? Is sex something that comes with more stress than pleasure? Is that something he may be experiencing? My fiance seems comfortable when we are intimate. It seems as though he struggles more with intimacy than sex itself. He can become distracted easily and there has been a trigger here and there. I've learned where to touch and not to touch etc to try and avoid triggers. For example, kissing him on the cheek is a trigger for him, so I do my best to not do it, which I find difficult at times. Its just a simple habit and sign of affection to me. To him its something else. I find it's the tenderness and closeness that he finds most difficult. I could be wrong and sex is equally as hard for him, but that what it seems to me.
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So on these questions… they will be unique to each man, their CSA experiences, and their sexual identity (whether they truly have developed their own vs it still being the one thrust upon them by CSA; and if so, what it is). My wall to climb likely is different from his so I’m hesitant to answer. It’s something that you should ask him about. Say someone who was also a CSA survivor described it that way. Ask if he can relate. If he says yes, ask him if he can describe that wall and listen without judgement or internalizing.

The specific triggering things - those may fall away over time. But you are good to love and respect him in that way, even if it feels like a sacrifice on your part.
 
MO-Survivor said:
So on these questions… they will be unique to each man, their CSA experiences, and their sexual identity (whether they truly have developed their own vs it still being the one thrust upon them by CSA; and if so, what it is). My wall to climb likely is different from his so I’m hesitant to answer. It’s something that you should ask him about. Say someone who was also a CSA survivor described it that way. Ask if he can relate. If he says yes, ask him if he can describe that wall and listen without judgement or internalizing.

The specific triggering things - those may fall away over time. But you are good to love and respect him in that way, even if it feels like a sacrifice on your part.
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That's fair. His struggled would be different from yours, so I can appreciate your resistance to answer. When the timing is right, I will ask him about his personal wall he climbs.

It does feel like a sacrifice sometimes. Or I'm not getting what I want as a result. He acknowledges that this isnt fair to me, but being with him means accepting them. Easier said than done in the moments of want and need.
 
TKingger said:
That's fair. His struggled would be different from yours, so I can appreciate your resistance to answer. When the timing is right, I will ask him about his personal wall he climbs.

It does feel like a sacrifice sometimes. Or I'm not getting what I want as a result. He acknowledges that this isnt fair to me, but being with him means accepting them. Easier said than done in the moments of want and need.
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You said he seems to manage the sexual part well, but the rest of intimacy poorly. I’m kind of the opposite and I didn’t want to put my experience there on him in a response

I know the dynamic you struggle with for sure. I’ve had to say the same thing to my wife before: I know it’s not fair, and I’m sorry. But that’s where I’m at. If it makes it any easier, I’m sure he doesn’t want it to be a struggle. I know I don’t. And what happened to him was obviously a huge injustice and isn’t fair to him, any more than your own abuse was / is fair. It just sucks and is what it is. And we all (you included) fight and work to make our way past what happened to us that wasn’t our fault or in our control. As long as we do that, healing will come.
 
MO-Survivor said:
You said he seems to manage the sexual part well, but the rest of intimacy poorly. I’m kind of the opposite and I didn’t want to put my experience there on him in a response

I know the dynamic you struggle with for sure. I’ve had to say the same thing to my wife before: I know it’s not fair, and I’m sorry. But that’s where I’m at. If it makes it any easier, I’m sure he doesn’t want it to be a struggle. I know I don’t. And what happened to him was obviously a huge injustice and isn’t fair to him, any more than your own abuse was / is fair. It just sucks and is what it is. And we all (you included) fight and work to make our way past what happened to us that wasn’t our fault or in our control. As long as we do that, healing will come.
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Yes, we seem to engage sexually without many incidents, however there is a basic guideline we follow. Wavering from it unless he initiates leads to potential triggers or loss of desire. Since he used to womanize, it seems (to me) sex itself isnt a huge issue. He's had many girlfriends in the past and was even engaged before. He says hes had many embarrassing sexual moments with women in his past, but he and I don't seem to. From my experience with him, I find its the tender moments (non sexual) that he finds uncomfortable. Intense feelings, touching and public affection. I've been asked not to kiss him or touch him much when we are around other people. I liked rubbing his chest but that made him feel awkward like I was mauling him. I feel like I have a list of "don't do this,'" which makes me feel a little on eggshells or anxious around him at times. Then just having those feelings makes me feel bad for having them.

I do accept him as he is fully and I love him completely with all that I am. I know he didnt ask for what happened to him. It wasnt fair. It's not fair that I lose out of things I want and need as a result. I'm sure he does too. I do not like feeling as though I want him so much more than he wants me. It feels powerless.
 
TKingger said:
Yes, we seem to engage sexually without many incidents, however there is a basic guideline we follow. Wavering from it unless he initiates leads to potential triggers or loss of desire. Since he used to womanize, it seems (to me) sex itself isnt a huge issue. He's had many girlfriends in the past and was even engaged before. He says hes had many embarrassing sexual moments with women in his past, but he and I don't seem to. From my experience with him, I find its the tender moments (non sexual) that he finds uncomfortable. Intense feelings, touching and public affection. I've been asked not to kiss him or touch him much when we are around other people. I liked rubbing his chest but that made him feel awkward like I was mauling him. I feel like I have a list of "don't do this,'" which makes me feel a little on eggshells or anxious around him at times. Then just having those feelings makes me feel bad for having them.

I do accept him as he is fully and I love him completely with all that I am. I know he didnt ask for what happened to him. It wasnt fair. It's not fair that I lose out of things I want and need as a result. I'm sure he does too. I do not like feeling as though I want him so much more than he wants me. It feels powerless.
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Yep. All of this… very familiar to me. I’m not quite as particular about do’s and don’ts during sex and the root issue is fear of being used. I had a therapist once who tried to make out that I had big control issues - because it’s typical of survivors. I had to explain that wasn’t my hugest issue, and he said, “See - you’re trying to control things.” Lose-lose in that conversation But for your fiancé it is still a large obstacle. For my wife it was other things that strangely bothered me that made her feel on eggshells. Hand wringing, thumb twiddling, repetitive hand stroking when holding hands. I will tell you after 23 years of marriage - those things don’t bother me anymore. So I guess my point is: all that can change over time, as he grows to really trust you - consciously and subconsciously.

One thing that used to drive me crazy - I had zero control over it: anyone who came up and put a hand on my back or shoulder - even if I saw it coming - I would flinch almost every time. This includes my wife. For 23 years. Although… there were one or two people this didn’t happen with. It was all subconscious - if someone wasn’t “safe” I would have this response. Deep down, sadly, the boy in me didn’t think my wife was “safe.” Because we had a sexual relationship. Recently, as I have been working on things with my therapist - I find I don’t do this anymore!

I am sorry you feel powerless, and I understand why you feel that way. And it’s not fair to either of you. And that’s obviously one of the harder parts about love: getting to a point where you accept and are willing to sacrifice what you really want and sometimes even need for someone else. It’s hard because it’s not fair, you aren’t being unreasonable in what you want / need, and it seems like he should be willing to do those things. I would say: as long as he’s willing to try, he’s loving you back via sacrificing his own wants and needs - even if he still can’t give things the way you want for now. Start small, with something little and ask him if he’d be willing to try to tolerate it (after talking with his therapist and getting the therapist’s thoughts, which is always wise). What you said before - he is making an effort to do try. It is going to feel like work for both of you before it gets to feeling normal and natural.
 
MO-Survivor said:
Yep. All of this… very familiar to me. I’m not quite as particular about do’s and don’ts during sex and the root issue is fear of being used. I had a therapist once who tried to make out that I had big control issues - because it’s typical of survivors. I had to explain that wasn’t my hugest issue, and he said, “See - you’re trying to control things.” Lose-lose in that conversation But for your fiancé it is still a large obstacle. For my wife it was other things that strangely bothered me that made her feel on eggshells. Hand wringing, thumb twiddling, repetitive hand stroking when holding hands. I will tell you after 23 years of marriage - those things don’t bother me anymore. So I guess my point is: all that can change over time, as he grows to really trust you - consciously and subconsciously.

One thing that used to drive me crazy - I had zero control over it: anyone who came up and put a hand on my back or shoulder - even if I saw it coming - I would flinch almost every time. This includes my wife. For 23 years. Although… there were one or two people this didn’t happen with. It was all subconscious - if someone wasn’t “safe” I would have this response. Deep down, sadly, the boy in me didn’t think my wife was “safe.” Because we had a sexual relationship. Recently, as I have been working on things with my therapist - I find I don’t do this anymore!

I am sorry you feel powerless, and I understand why you feel that way. And it’s not fair to either of you. And that’s obviously one of the harder parts about love: getting to a point where you accept and are willing to sacrifice what you really want and sometimes even need for someone else. It’s hard because it’s not fair, you aren’t being unreasonable in what you want / need, and it seems like he should be willing to do those things. I would say: as long as he’s willing to try, he’s loving you back via sacrificing his own wants and needs - even if he still can’t give things the way you want for now. Start small, with something little and ask him if he’d be willing to try to tolerate it (after talking with his therapist and getting the therapist’s thoughts, which is always wise). What you said before - he is making an effort to do try. It is going to feel like work for both of you before it gets to feeling normal and natural.
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My finace absolutely has some control issues. He tries to control situations and on some levels me as well, which is where the do and don't "list" comes in. My finace cannot have another grab him or in his face, especially a male. Any women in his past that have been sexually aggressive, he would reject or even kick out of his home. One of my brother gave him a big huge not long ago and it triggered him, so I understand about someone touching your back and shoulder. You say, even if it was your wife. My fiance says he trusts me 100% and I can touch him in ways no one else have ever been able to before (sexually). Is it possible that he doesn't trust me on some level? Not because of me or our relationship, but merely his past? Will he ever fully trust me? Deep down I am terrified that he will run before we get married. In his past, running away and not facing things has been frequent. I worry he will look for an excuse to leave because being vulnerable and working at this is harder (but more rewarding). Did you have any fears of getting married based on your past?

Well done on working on yourself so fiercely for yourself and your marriage. 23 years is impressive. You and your wife must share something very rare and special. You both should be so proud.
 
Thanks @TKingger.

Sure I had fears of getting married, but not because of my past. Just the usual getting-married-and-things-are-going-to-change-forever fears LOL. I had those too when she was pregnant with our first: OMG - life will never be the same. We can’t give this baby back! And of course, I would never have really wanted to. I think my best man was worried for us because of my past though.

Best thing I can say is make sure and do some pre-marital counseling before you get married. It can even be with his therapist. It is a wise thing to do, but in that setting you can ask questions as well as get reassurance because someone is helping mediate the conversation. The running away and leaving you before or at the altar - I couldn’t tell you if that’s a valid fear or not. But it’s something that could be asked gently in a counseling session.
 
Yes, there are pre wedding jitters in the best circumstances and with children! I can relate. I have a few close friends that I can confide in and I think there is worry for me with them. They are very supportive of my relationship. However I feel they do have concerns.

I would like to do some pre-marital counseling. I've mentioned therapy/counseling to him before and he did not like the idea. He felt it would make our relationship worse and potentially have us become against one another. I can attempt to mention it again, but I feel I will get the same answer.
 
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