New and Lost

[target687]

Hello. I'm new to this (discussion boards) and actually dealing with the CSA.
I'll start with, that I started dating my (ex?) boyfriend 5 years ago. However, I had noticed he kind of jumped from his last relationship into ours, and I kind of did too. So I somewhat overlooked that as I did it, because I knew I wanted to loyally date him. My boyfriend, always seemed to be in some contact with his ex. It was just gut suspicions and then she would contact me maybe twice a year saying things like "make him leave me alone" or forwarding that he wrote "would you like to hang out with me tonight?" She always seemed a little crazy so I kind of let myself believe it was her, even though I would get upset and not trust him. Our relationship was always pretty perfect other than this girl! We enjoyed all of the same things, worked together (and lived together) and always got along so well. We were a team, and i loved it. We would ski, hike, travel, do everything together and were always pretty caring/loving. (Never had intimacy problems; although he indulged that he has had intimacy problems when he was younger but always felt great with me). Things finally started to get bad/good about 3 years ago, after a text from his ex. I broke down and said I COULD NOT do it anymore. It was just a complete meltdown, both of us crying. Him begging me not to break up with him saying he loved me and he would never talk to her again - it was no problem. A year went by and things were so awesome. I was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I had this awesome partner, we had a blast together. We were so similar, and it made everything we did enjoyable. He knew exactly how to handle me when I was frustrated, and took so much time to help with things that no one ever really helped me with (organizing my gear in the garage, teaching me how to fold my tent the best way, helping me put my skis on my avalanche backpack) and even things he didn't really like, but wanted to help me with like organizing my closet. (He's obviously orderly and didn't mind helping) Or helping me figure out what a letter from my insurance meant etc. He was so patient and helpful to me always.
Then, one morning...I did something awful. He got in the shower, and I looked at his phone. I had awoken with anxiety and was literally shaking as I went to his phone. I never believed in snooping, but this overwhelming feeling came over me out of the blue (because things were great) that I needed to look. (I've always been super intuitive; or so people tell me). I noticed that on his iPhone, the texts were two of the same name (one of our mutual guy friends) and that read me wrong instantly. Why would there be two guys in his phone with same name? And both been texting them recently. I clicked the first one. It was obviously his ex. Broke my heart. I knew it immediately. I was scrolling through very fast, because I was nervous, and I guess I hadn't seen anything too upsetting...and was trying to justify. Then I saw something...she had said something like "i'll never compare to perfect " and then somewhere close he responded "if you would ever change your mind about me, we could have a house like that" (something weird about a house.) Keep in mind she had JUST had a baby with someone else. I was devastated. How. Why? I thought this was what people wanted, what we had? I couldn't hold my emotion in and went to him. He initially got a little mad "get out of my phone!" but it turned immediately to crying and begging. Shakingly, I told him that was it. I had given him another chance, the year before. He needed to leave. I can't believe I believed him again. He was out in the garage (a little studio apartment above it), texting me and bawling. That's when he blurted it out in a text...very vaguely. My mom had asked me a few times if I thought he had been SA as a child. I always said "no way! he would have told me". He used to make random jokes about priests and molesting. Now I see, he was just testing peoples reactions. But my mom had just always caught on. I let him back inside, because I felt bad for what he had just told me. The next day at work, he just kept bugging me, crying, cornering me to take him back that he loves me and only me and the only reason he contacted her was for guilt and shame. Because he was supposedly really shitty to her, and it was important for him to feel like she didn't hate him. He had always said that before in our relationship too and it never made sense...until now reading things about CSA. About guilt and shame and just feeling crappy and needing someone to tell you that you are not awful. Anyways, i asked if I could share this info that he told me about himself with my mom, as she had asked me a few times. I told him i just didn't know what to do and I thought she could help me/us. He said yes. I was shocked...but my mom said that I immediately needed to stay by his side. She was right. He needed me. She was knowledgeable on this stuff and has had multiple friends go through this. So I did. I gave in, and we got back together. We never really discussed it though. But that's when our fighting started. We never talked about it, and I was SO hurt and worrying about myself only that I constantly would jab at him and say mean things "you'd probably rather be talking to her" etc. I was just so hurt. Our relationship really suffered. I kept saying we needed therapy. Almost a year went by and I said, we are constantly arguing: I do not know how to deal with the pain from you lying to me, and I need someone to guide me in how to trust you again". He said okay. We started couples therapy but we were only able to go like once a month, as it was an hour away from where we lived. He paid for it all. He's pretty frugal so I knew that was a big deal by him saying "I'll pay for this. It's my fault we are in this spot". But therapy was just starting to help. A year went by. It was tough. December was low for me still. I had a ton of anxiety about him doing this again. Finally in January I felt good. It was hopefully going to go back to the relationship we were hoping for! Then right around Valentines day...he pushed me away. He said he was so depressed, and that he thought he needed to move back to his own home and just be himself. That he never got to figure out who he was because his whole life has been hiding from this lie and trying to be this tough brave guy. I felt for him . But I was soo terrified of moving apart. I built his ego up, gave him pep talks about how great he was each morning. I tried to listen and care. I told him not to make a big decision under such depression and stress. And that if he needed space to think about his life, he could sleep in our garage apartment. So he did. I went on a trip to visit a friend. I tried to give him space. But I was scared...I love him so much and he wants to be alone. I hated that. He helped me when I was depressed and sad...It was my turn to help him. But he was distant...almost cold. But then would change his mind about leaving. Saying everything I said "sounded nice". Things were a little on edge, because I didn't know what was going on...but we were making it. Then one night after Easter we were talking in bed. I said i was having anxiety and frustrated because a couple nights before he tried to wake me up in the middle of the night to talk about something (I'm a lunatic sleeper and sleep walk/talk and got frustrated in my sleep and wouldn't wake up). I told him "what did you want to tell me the other night...i'm so frustrated because you just ignored it" He kept saying, you seem hostile right now, and I will bring it up when I feel comfortable. Ugh, okay. I guess that's best. But as he said that, his phone lit up on the nightstand. It was on silent...no noise (weird). It was 1:15AM! Who is calling him at 1am?? I said not even thinking "someone's calling your phone" As I said that...it dawned on me. Anxiety. Heart break. He grabbed his phone "It's just a friend, you wouldn't understand". That hurt to hear? Okay well who is it? a friend?? (we had mostly mutual friends and knew each other's friends...) What friend? I asked if it was one of our bosses...a girl? No he said. I knew immediately. I said the girls name (not his ex) and he said Yes. I had been suspicious of this girl right around Valentines day. they seemed flirty at work and have to work together on other projects..but he told me back then that she is cool and just a friend. I was trying to believe him! How could I be so dumb.. I kicked him out. I couldn't handle it. calling at 1 am....is NOT random. he said he didn't know why she called blah blah blah. He had also deleted the phone call already. And their text messages. So shady! I kicked him out said I needed the weekend to think and to leave me alone. I blocked him. He called everyday, crying, he would drive an hour to my house every day begging saying she was just a friend and that He loves me and she knows about me. And this whole story about how she just randomly called. I took the weekend, and then we met for coffee in town one day. I said the only way I could believe his story is if he had proof. And he deleted it all. So only if he was willing (I didn't want him to feel like he was on trial) I wanted him to pull up his verizon bill and show me how much they called/texted. He hesitated but was willing to do whatever. They had had 13 phone calls since february. And two were 109 min long and 75! Most were at 1am! When I had him kicked out and in the garage apartment. Seriously? I know he was depressed and needed a friend. But I just know that after 5 years of dating, you should not be hiding a friend. If she was just a friend, he'd be excited to introduce us So we could all hang out! He also said he went skiing alone with her once. I was heart broke. Most of their calls were around midnight. He also said she had confessed she had a crush on him. Of course she did, he's good looking, charming, super athletic, hard worker, smart, nice....DUH people are going to hit on you! I felt so betrayed. I looked like an idiot...once again. He kept coming over to talk...crying begging pleading. Then he told me more intimate details of his abuse....something that has kept me up at night. That I can hardly find on the internet. I'm SO hurt for him. He was 5. And that was just his first experience. I know I need to be there for him after indulging this information. He also said he was addicted to masturbation and porn. What? When? I never knew. I never even suspected or caught him doing that or something on his iPad. He said it's bad, he even does it at work. Who knew? I know it was forced on him when he was young...So I understand it. But how would that ever work into our relationship and if we had kids. Anyway, We are on break for work (we work in a resort town and it's closed until june). I flew home. I didn't say bye. I was crying so hard. He's been doing intense therapy since this all. Individual and going twice a week. I know he is trying he does not want to be this person. But what am I supposed to do? My heart aches feeling like i'm abandoning him. He says its okay he's been abandoned and alone his whole life anyways . Turns the knife. How can I be supportive, and still give him time to work his life out. My secret hope is that we can be together one day...But I don't really know. I don't want to give him any false hope. Anytime I say "we will get through this I can help when you need me I support you" he thinks that means we will be together. I wish I was with him. But the truth is, he hurts me. And I do believe he loves me, but I can't have anxiety my whole life because I'm scared he's lying. Long story short...any advice? Should I stick by his side one more time because we have something special? I read a survivor once saying, that being left was what kicked his ass into gear. That when someone stayed with him, it was easiest to manipulate and not really change. I want to do what's best for us both. He also told his sister a little bit! He has 3 siblings, and is terrified for her to tell anyone else. I cant believe he told his sitter. He said he did it because he needed something to hold him accountable if i was not going to be in his life...he needed something to stop him from everyone thinking he was so shitty. When his family hears he does this stuff to me, they get so confused and are like "why do you lie like that?" I think telling his sister made him feel like he has to change this...Any Advice. Eek, sorry for such a long and probably confusing story. So much running through my head! I also need to decide what to do about work...I have 3 weeks but am terrified of what I will do/where I will go and I don't want to burn bridges with my work...however, I don't think I can work side by side with him everyday. I would definitely go back to him. Anways, thanks for reading....!!!

 

[banterings]

target687,

Sorry for the pain that SA causes our family/friends/significant others.

Nobody reacts the same way to SA, some go on to normal relationships (what ever that would have been if they had not experienced SA, some can't/don't have sex, some have a screwed up version of sex (only sex with guys that wear sneakers), some become promiscuous/addicted to sex.

Despite his SA, that is NO excuse to hurt/abuse you. Without details of his abuse, I can't tell you if that is related to this secrecy. If he was molested by a priest and had an attraction to men, potentially there is a link.

The ONLY possibility that I can see (and this is stretching it) is if he is extremely heterosexual and trying to prove his masculinity by sleeping with as many women as possible. That would tend to manifest itself as him being really dominant (sexually) and him giving cues that he is masculine and in control. You would have noticed this.

I am NOT saying that SA can't be responsible for what is happening, I just feel doubtful.

What has he told you about the abuse? Search the internet for the priest's name, see if he was ever caught.

Sorry I can't help you any more...

 

[Bluedogone]

Hi target687,

Welcome to the MS forum, but I'm so sorry you have to be here. You've certainly been put through the wringer of emotions trying to deal (in a responsible way) with someone who has experienced childhood sexual abuse,

These are some observations. Please keep in mind these are only my opinions. And what do I know?
Without being too much of a Debbie Downer here, but I've found in reading a whole lot of stories on MS you'll find a vast number with this situation or one very similar: "A man 30-50 years old who, many years after the CSA, still struggling with it's effects Unfortunately, masturbation and porn are all too often some of the effects. These men thank their wives for putting up with them all these years, and for supporting them, and staying with them in spite of all the hellish things they've put the wife through." Plus, there's the very wrong and dangerously mistaken idea "Well, I can change him when we're married." If that reality of a future together sounds like it's worth the effort then I would think it's a "GO."

You didn't mention your ages or financial situation, which I think would be significant in any relationship and especially when one partner has CSA in the past. A co-dependency or an enabler is not very compatible with a CSA survivor. Since you have a home with a garage apartment I assume you are financially independent , and hopefully your partner is also. That would make it much more possible for him to get the professional help that is a MUST for him, while you both live apart. Absence makes the heart grow fonder is still a very true statement, and that along with therapy by someone familiar with CSA (not just marriage or couples counseling) will certainly go a long way in making him get his ass in gear. He has to both realize what he's missing while away from you, and genuinely want to seek help if there's any hope of this working out.

Some personal info, which may or may not be helpful. I married (for the second time) at age 34. At the time my mother said, "I'll give it six months," which was probably optimistic. Now 45 years later I think she missed it. My first marriage was a total disaster, for many reasons, but mostly because I had not faced the reality that CSA can't be ignored. BUT, it can be dealt with IF both partners are willing to accept it, and understand that sometime CSA is almost as bad as a third person in a relationship.

My wish for you is, first of all take care of yourself. Best wishes and good luck as y'all work to resolve this seemly impossible situation.

CJ

 

[target687]

Banterings Bluedogone- thanks for your responses (I didn't think anyone would read my long ramblings)!!!!
Banterings: So far, I have no evidence or reason to believe of him ever cheating on me sexually. It's just been emotionally and only with his ex (who has moved on), and a girl that works in our building. But then again, what can I trust now after he lied about talking to her? Also, I didn't mean he was molested by a priest. But he had made comments about priests doing this kind of stuff and that it pisses him off that so many people still are catholic (all goes back to his family being super religious, and comments his mom has made not believing a kid who went after a priest in their town for molesting him).
Sorry! I haven't made much sense. I seem to be down everyday lately, and so many thoughts in my head as I type. But I do know so far, two of the people in his life that have done this, and at what ages it started and seemed to end for him. I'm sure they overlapped as well. I do know some of the things he was forced to do. It makes me ache for him. I cry myself to sleep a lot thinking of what he has had to go through. It's not fair. So much was taken. He's a good person, I love him so much. But I can't trust that he lied. Just feel torn and wanting to stay with him. Seeing how much he is taking on head on, after me leaving. He's doubling his therapy, going to get EMDR which I suggested he look into. He wants to join a support group but the state we live in, doesn't seem to be on the list here (of course our luck) for male survivor suggestions. I'm Just lost. He's my best friend and I don't know what's best...not talking at all? He contacts me everyday begging for a little hope that we will be together when he gets better. He says he will fly to wherever I am just to hug me. He can't stand the thought of us not being together. But I feel like I enable this when I go back to him each time.

Bluedogone: I'm 29 (will be 30 in Sept) and he is 33. We are both well financially and both work extremely hard. I am smart with my money and he is extremely good with his. I have family support if and when I ever need it but work like I don't have that, because I think it's important. He actually has never had help and has a ton of money saved up. He bought his own home when he was 24 and has all really nice things. We own an RV together. We are both financially stable and he is able to pay for his therapy. I'm so thankful for that. I am probably an enabler AND a co-dependent. Eek. My dad is an alcoholic but was never super abusive. Just kind of made you feel like his life was so hard and maybe resents us because we grew up easier than him. I don't know that I have all the symptoms of a co-dependent but I definitely want to "save/help" my boyfriend. It kills me that anyone has had to endure this stuff.

I guess I just know that I can't be lied to anymore. I want to believe everything he says because I know he is trying so hard. He is very emotional and smart and admits he was wrong etc. He doesn't blame. He says he is willing to do whatever it takes because he has to. He says he can't live like this sabotaging every relationship he has ever had, and letting his family down every time they here he lied or did something stupid again. I don't know. Maybe he's just manipulating me? It's been a month since it all happened. I guess I just am curious- what's best..to cut off all contact? or to tell him i love him and just can't be with him? go back to him? I don't want to be an enabler but I am so empty thinking we will never be together. He's all I ever wanted.

Sorry these are all so long! I obviously need to talk to a therapist as well--especially to deal with the codependency. Thank you both for your responses...It means a lot. this has been so wearing on me.

 

[target687]

I am nervous that his counselor isn't THAT qualified. It says SA in her categories, and she knows about EMDR . But we also went to her for a little couples therapy and I personally never liked her that much. However, every time I search my state (Montana), I don't find anyone who has a ton of experience in that. Ugh. Anyways, I'm not sure he can handle finding a new person and re-sharing his story again anyways. He says he is getting more and more comfortable with her and telling her more. but I just hope she can really help. She seems more of a couples counselor.

 

[GoodHope]

A good therapist is a must. You will notice on this site that this is not for amateurs and a bad therapist can set you back years.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

I'm going to give you general advice, rather than specific. I've said this before on this forum that my advice for married people is different. You are not married to this man. I say what I am about to say to you to ALL of my non-married friends because it doesn't have anything to do with sexual abuse: When you marry someone, you should be prepared to live with them exactly as they are at that moment for the rest of your lives. Not because they can't or won't change, but because it is wrong to expect marriage to change anyone.

Now insert the behaviors you know about into that equation (porn, other women, etc.)

Your significant other is exhibiting important and admirable behaviors--intensive therapy, attempts at accountability, additional disclosures and increasing transparency. Those are good signs. But will you be OK if he suddenly quits therapy? If he doesn't kick the porn habit? If he never learns appropriate boundaries (which is a simplistic way of describing the flirting with other women)?

I will tell you that it is difficult to live this way and it gets even more complicated by children.

The good news is you don't have to rush. You can support him and watch his progress without marrying. You'll know if he is really trying. Rejection (abandonment) IS a big deal for many of the survivors. It feeds into a narrative some believe about themselves "If you knew what I've done you wouldn't want me." But it is also not your responsibility to stay in an emotionally unhealthy relationship. This time before marriage is for ascertaining if this is the right relationship for forever.

My heart breaks for you and for your man. I'm with you, I have a hard time believing he wants to behave the way he is. My husband says it feels terrible.

Last thing, kudos to you for trusting your gut. I had that weird feeling in a "great" relationship that you talk about and I ignored it for 2 years (and at least 4 women). It made no sense for me to feel that way with a handsome, attentive, loving, affectionate, funny man by my side. But I felt it and pushed it away. Intuition is your friend. Never talk yourself out of listening to it.

 

[Mishka95673]

.

 

[target687]

Goodhope- that's some really good advice, about marriage. He does say that's a huge reason why we weren't engaged...is that he knew deep down he had some serious issues he was not dealing with. I'm so terrified, that this time apart will make it feel like abandonment and then his bad behaviors will emerge. After all, aren't those the emotions that brought on some of his bad choices? (depression, feeling not good enough, guilt, shame) Then again, I broke up with him. So who am I to keep tabs on what he does now? What's wrong with me. I'm just still so deeply in love that I want to hold on, too. He's holding on tightly. We talk about this all. I asked if he thought I abandoned him. He said no, he understands why I left...but that he was in a lot of pain that I disappeared out of the state on a flight without saying goodbye. That really hurt him. It hurt me too. I was afraid if I said goodbye in person, I wouldn't get on the plane.
He just promises over and over that he wants/needs to change so badly for himself. That he wants nothing more than to feel normal and have a family and kids. I hear the pain and sadness in his wish. I'm so scared that he may do something awful to himself as he has disclosed these attempts in his past. I feel like I'm damned if I do and i'm damned if i don't. Then I start feeling guilty that "i'm going through all of this" when hell, he's been through 1000x more.

I was watching some stupid E! entertainment or news channel, I hear that Tiger Woods is splitting from Lindsey Vonn as he came clean about cheating on her, too (during one of their therapy sessions!). I thought "hello, did you really think he wouldn't cheat on you?" --and then I remember, I'm that girl. Who sees the guy you love going to therapy, working hard, putting in the effort. The girl who believes and hopes and wishes. I feel like I'm so dumb to believe stuff there isn't more I don't know about.

I struggle with the fact that I do not want my SO to feel alone. To feel any pain (I realize these aren't realistic wants...but i want them so bad for him). To have to go through this, awful stupid shit that had nothing to do with him. That someone took from him. I just don't want him to go through this. I don't want anyone to go through any of this. People robbed him of all of the wonderful things that his life could have been. I literally had a mean kindergarten teacher, that's it...she was just mean. And it f#*$ked me up for a while. I lost my confidence etc.. I cannot imagine what he has had to go through. Why didn't ANYONE notice that he didn't want to eat when he was 5. That he had no appetite and cried to his teddy every night. That he just wanted his mom to lay with him and hold him when he was 5. What can I do??

I read someone write once that they're mostly sad because they're done...and when their husband was done with his therapy, they know some other woman would get to enjoy that new person. It breaks my heart. I'm afraid if I wait side by side, i'll get hurt again. If I step away, someone else will step in. I know they will. Someone else will see what I see, and get to be with the person I love.

He just is SO hopeful at times. Telling me at times he kNOWS he can change he knows how hard he can work so we can be together. That he's soo hopeful. I want to be hopeful...I'm just scared. And tired..and anxious...

When the people who have gotten past it all and say it's still a struggle but things are SO much better now...what do they even mean? Like none of the bad habits happen anymore? or that they happen so much less...what am I even hoping for? How good can it get? or are people basically telling me that it's pretty much always going to be like this? My mind isn't quitting tonight!