Neurofeedback

Neurofeedback

LinEar

Registrant
Has anyone given neurofeedback a try? Looks like there are a few old threads about it that didn't have much activity.

I'm doing it now as part of my therapy and I have about 15 sessions completed so far. Happy to explain the process that I've been working through or answer any questions, and interested to hear others' experiences.
 
I'm curious what changes you see for yourself? I did some reading once you noted your therapy and it's seeming to work in a way that's not intuitive to me? I can understand watching the monitor of our responses, and I guess it's that we work to redirect that negative toward a positive? Similar to EMDR? The thing that seems hard to grasp for me, is the talking during it? I haven't read enough to see that part? What do you talk about? Is it a directed part of trauma, broken down to manageable parts, like EMDR?
 
I'll give you a rundown of my experience.

I've been in weekly talk therapy with this particular therapist for a little over a year. We started with just general talking about the abuse and current life issues, establishing safety, coping mechanisms, etc., in preparation for EMDR. Then we did EMDR for several months. I've posted about it here elsewhere, and by and large it went well but it is definitely very powerful and to be handled with care. Then later last year we switched to Internal Family Systems (IFS), which has also been very interesting and helpful. For me, that has been powerful as well as less jarring and upsetting than EMDR. I am going to do EMDR again at some point to really dig into some specifics, but not right now.

So currently we meet once a week for an hour of talk therapy (some sessions with more specific IFS work than others) and then I also go twice a week separately for the neurofeedback.

My neurofeedback has worked like this -- in the first session, you have all the electrodes attached (something like 20 of them) and they do a "brain map" on you. You have your brainwaves read with your eyes closed, and then again eyes open, while sitting quietly. No talking about anything. This process took about an hour. Then I went online and did a self-assessment as far as current emotional issues, trauma impacts, and that sort of thing. The next session we reviewed my online answers as well as what the EEG's software had to say about me, and it was almost scary in its accuracy. It's not like it can read your thoughts, of course, but they are able to compare nuances of your brainwaves to a database of others and from there predict how likely it is that you have a particular issue (difficulty sleeping, for example), but they're not able to predict a particular issue's severity or to use it for any kind of diagnosis.

In my case, the EEG results showed brainwaves indicating extreme levels of fear, hypervigilance, and associated issues; which were bad with my eyes closed but were off the charts with my eyes open. I'm oversimplifying because I'm not an expert when it comes to this, but the idea is you're trying to train your brainwaves to be like those of a "normal" or non-traumatized person. So there are alpha, delta, theta, gamma, and maybe some other waves that I'm forgetting, and they're all supposed to be present in different levels in different areas of the brain. The brain map shows where your brainwaves are out of sync with where they would normally be with a non-PTSD brain.

So, just to make something up, let's say my brain map showed that I have "too many" alpha waves in the frontal lobe, and not enough delta waves, or whatever. So now armed with this info, and knowing what needs to be changed, the software creates a custom program for me.

I go in for a session and I sit in a recliner in front of a TV monitor. We get started by doing heartrate variability (HRV) while she gets the EEG electrodes setup on my head. The HRV system directs me to inhale for 5 seconds and then exhale for 5 seconds, which helps to relax the brain and body. It uses an ear clip sensor to read my pulse, measure its variability, and see how well I'm able to achieve "coherence" this way. Lots more info about this online if you search, and there are smartphone apps that do the same thing in a more crude way. This goes on for 10 minutes. By then, she has everything ready with the EEG, and she starts a movie for me, which goes on for 30 minutes. Any movie, of my choice. They have many to pick from, or I could bring my own. Content doesn't matter, although I guess you wouldn't want something particularly violent or triggering. The trick is, the DVD player software is tied to the EEG system. So as I sit there and watch the movie, it's reading my brainwaves in real time. The movie is visible on the screen, it's watchable but it's pretty dim. Every time my brainwaves in whichever area we're training are what the software wants me to do, it "rewards" my brain by making the screen brighter for a second or so, before going back to being more dim. It also makes a simple click noise when my brain makes the desired waves. Unlike the HRV over which you have some control, the neurofeedback portion is totally subconscious and passive. All I have to do is watch the movie, I don't have to try to influence what I'm thinking or anything like that. The monitor with my actual brainwave activity is behind me, out of my sight, where the therapist can see it. But she's not really doing anything besides monitoring it while I'm watching, the software takes care of everything. As my brain responds and makes favorable brainwaves, the software recalibrates and it gets more difficult. This also happens in real time and it's totally transparent to me, I don't know when it's happening. So the subconscious has to work harder, has to be trained, to get the same bright movie reward. It's the subconscious desiring the reward, not me thinking about it consciously. The idea being operant conditioning, over time the brain learns how to not be stuck in fight-or-flight-or-freeze. Hopefully. After 20 sessions, you do another brain map to review your progress and then use that to plan the next steps. I haven't gotten there yet, but I will soon.

So to answer your questions: I don't watch the brainwaves monitor during the neurofeedback, although I've seen my own brainwaves on screen afterwards and in reports. There's no talking during it, you want to be as still and quiet as possible. You don't have to sit there frozen but it's best to try to just sink into the chair and relax. It's really nothing like EMDR since it's passive and trauma doesn't even enter into it.

I've seen some very interesting changes. It's difficult to ascribe whether they're due to the EMDR from last year, or the IFS/talk therapy that we're doing concurrently, but some things have definitely changed noticeably since we started neurofeedback. The big ones are: a better sleep schedule. I'm a night owl and I stay up late and sleep too late. I've tried to force myself to bed earlier for years, and I end up just laying there. I don't suddenly instantly fall asleep now, but it's 100% easier to go to bed at an earlier time like 9:30 or 10, without even trying, and I fall asleep much more easily. Feels totally effortless. I still wake up a few times during the night, but instead of being up for hours I usually go right back to sleep after a minute or two.

A huge benefit for me is a lack of rumination. I just don't worry about things or obsessively plan them out like I used to. This doesn't mean that I'm apathetic, but it's much easier to just take care of things and be done with them, or to plan ahead, and not worry about it or even think about it until the next step needs to be done. Whether that's work, personal life, whatever. I also rarely ever replay conversations in my head, which is something that I used to do constantly. I couldn't believe how much there was a running dialog of past conversations or situations in my head until it pretty much stopped. This alone is very helpful. I've been able to be more present, not feeling like I need to plan what I'm going to say ahead of time, less awkward, much less anticipatory anxiety. In-situation triggers are still a problem and I'm not sure if neurofeedback alone is going to help with that.

There's less "noise" in my head. Not that I was hearing voices, but there is just a lot more clarity of thought. Sometimes I leave and as I'm driving away I just can't believe how clear my thought process is. It's moved me to tears a couple of times.

I'm more patient with people and in situations. Not rushing around as much, not trying to think ahead to what someone is going to say, not completing their sentences, listening to others talk is much more pleasurable and interesting now since I can focus better, etc.

For me so far it's really all come down to, my brain is learning to slow down and chill. And it's not really a sedated feeling. It's just not in this super hurried frenzy panic all the time. So the 24/7 fight/flight/freeze response is diminishing, leaving more processing power to take care of normal life events. And the more I do it, the more I realize how, understandably, my brain was in a ridiculous state of overdrive and hyperarousal for years. And why this constant adrenaline surge has exhausted my adrenals. Hoping for more healing there as well as they get used to not being so taxed all the time. So while we're not working on the trauma specifically, we're training the brain into understanding that it's safe not to be stuck in the PTSD symptoms.

I know that was a lot -- hope that's some helpful info for you and everyone. Happy to answer other questions too.
 
I follow LinEar, thank you for the detail and reflections of progress.

I've been looking into my insurance's behavioral health coverage and read today that "biofeedback" isn't covered. To them, owing to lack of efficacy?! I'm not sure Neurofeedback is exactly "biofeedback"? In fact, I was a bit overwhelmed by reading some of the things about insurance today, and stopped dealing with it.

The EMDR I'm taking is also something I don't know if I'm covered. I had not wanted to run it through my insurance for financial reasons and searched for a few months to find a trainee situation. What I did find is a Pro-Bono situation, thus far. She's asked me to check our state Medical Assistance, and I did a short read of that today too. It's not looking promising. Let alone the vast depth of Mortgage like forms to fill out, and that it repeats monthly, I'm just overwhelmed from my knee surgery.

I've discovered I'm hyper vigilant about the way a bad nurse treated me, and then in my view, the check out day, a physical therapist person was bad. So, in my view, there's issues about being healthy and trusting those charged with doing no harm, yet they really are. I don't like that feeling, nor do I like how it puts all the burden on me. But, I was not going to pay for physical therapy anyway, I can only just imagine what bill I'm yet to see for my deductible to that surgery and hospital stay? I think it's going to clean me out?

I don't think I can afford any of the therapy I need at present, and do appreciate you're giving me such a clear understanding of what you do. I'm still curious how the movie part, along with that program you mention is making adjustments to your brain waves? Or did I misunderstand?
 
You're welcome -- it was very helpful for myself to write it all out, too.

Insurance can be very overwhelming, I understand. Every time I think I have my policy figured out, something new comes up with it. As far as I know, neurofeedback is considered a type of biofeedback. My insurance doesn't cover it either, because they claim it's "experimental", although there are 1000s of peer reviewed studies about its effectiveness. I do have a copay for therapy where I pay half of my therapist's rate and she receives the other half from my insurance. I'm not sure how it works on her end, but on my end, it doesn't matter if we spend the hour talking, or with IFS, or EMDR, or any combination of that. The neurofeedback is billed separately and not covered.

I'm sorry you're feeling overwhelmed. That's a tough spot to be in, and you have a lot going on.

The neurofeedback software is not making any changes to my brain waves, all it does is read my current brainwaves. They can't put ideas into your head or anything of that sort, they can only read what your brain is doing, its electrical activity. So while I watch the movie, the software is reading my brainwaves through the EEG. Every time I make brainwaves that we're trying to train, it rewards my subconscious brain by making the movie brighter, which makes it easier to see what's going on with the movie, which is what the subconscious wants. So it's just saying, okay, you're making a good brainwave now -- here's a reward. Over and over again. With the idea being that over time, it'll make those desirable brainwaves on its own. Just like you'd train a muscle, you can't naturally just force or will it to grow, but when you put a reasonable demand on it and do that repetitively, it'll respond by compensating (getting stronger). Same idea -- make sense?
 
Yes, that clears up my confusion about reward. It's amazing and to me is clearly along the right track to help. I've been reading "The Body Keeps the Score" on and off, and just did a bit tonight. It's relating exactly what I have come to expect regarding how my brain changed due to trauma. Reworking it toward the better sense of self is a job for sure. I see that Neurofeedback as you've described so well, to be very effective! Insurance companies and old school published works have a lot to do with keeping these excellent possibilities at arms length.

I've had to struggle to manage life's financial requirements all my life, and the paying to play, consumer directive of everything angers me. The idea that circumstances are a choice is just not true. To state that someone has to find their own way, and get the job to afford their needs, compounds the drama of failure which some of us with trauma experience. And experience repeatedly in our lives. A cycle that overwhelms, thus making progress stagnant. It just amazes me that society has built to destroy the marginalized without money!! There's no hope.

That's become a self pity I struggle with and feel is unfair. There's truly a problem when the trauma inhibits the sense of self that rises to encourage financial independence. Which means a well paying job. Not a get by and multiple jobs scenario of pay-check to pay-check. Well, it's not really part of your discussion and I'm soap boxing, but am I really?

Thank you LinEar!
 
That's a great book -- took me a while to get through it, lots to digest.

No worries about going "off-topic." It's a good point. The financial cycle of needing to pay for help but being unable to do so is a big problem. I understand how it feels to have a brain, drive, and spirit that are wired for independence, well, a healthy interdependence, including financial independence; while the PTSD-affected brain is simultaneously unable to move in that direction, much less fulfill it, despite our best efforts. Extremely frustrating.
 
Bump to revitalize this thread on Neurofeedback in which @LinEar provided his experience with it. I have an opportunity to get the baseline EEG and begin neurofeedback in a study that is professionally supervised but home-based for the NF sessions. This is appealing because it removes the transportation requirements and time-constraints that typical NF regimen seems to require, multiple sessions per week/travel to the provider. Also there is a significant upfront expense for equipment but that is off-set by not having the cost of the NF sessions. I guess what I am trying to determine is if the time, energy, expense was a net positive benefit and hoping others who have done NF can speak to that. TIA.
 
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