Need Survivor advice please

[PKP3]

So two things...
First, my husband comes home from therapy and tells me how exhausted he is all the time from how hard he struggles in his head afterwards to forget all the things they talked about until his next session and then it starts all over again. Is there anything I can do to help with this or give him that he may read? I just don't think this is healthy and it worries me.

Second, he had started therapy years ago and stopped. Now he said that he feels like he's getting to the point where he was before when he stopped because that's when his world started falling apart and he looked up at our house. LOL..I love him. I assured him our world was just fine. FYI - we are going in debt but just a little bit because we have some home repairs that needed done all at once, but we are fine and will dig ourselves out of it. We have the resources. OUR world isn't crumbling, but I worry that his world is. Is there anything I can do other than reassure him we are fine...which I don't think he ever believes.

Sometimes I feel like I should be talking to his therapist too because I don't feel like he is sharing this stuff with him. But then I think...no,stay out of it. Not your fight, get your ass back on the bleachers and watch it unfold.

Thank you for any advice and insight you can provide.
PKP

 

[SmartShadow]

Hi PKP,
he may not be ready. It is something that one needs to be ready enough for.
How's his T. If his T understands trauma he should know to take it slow and build a foundation of trust. Talking about ones trauma is only part of it. There's a lot of relational repair work that needs to happen as well. It takes time and can make things worse if not done correctly. It's a bit like swiming through nails. You have to take it slow and build a thicker skin and learn to trust your swim coach. It takes the right T and a lot of time.
Ask him what he needs to be able to do this very dificault work. It is 100% worth doing but at the same time I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's like going through the abuse over and over again. But truth is that's what we are doing anyway.

Do you have a T to process with

Most of us need long term therapy before seeing any noticeable progress.

It's all about the right strategy, being persistent and being patient.

It can get a lot better with time and the right help.

 

[PKP3]

He has one of the best T. He wrote a book and was on a VERY FAMOUS WOMAN'S talk show. ;-)

And my husband really likes him.

I agree with you and I've said all along I feel like he's doing it for me and he says he's not. But he says a lot of things..most I think to try and protect me or to make me stay. I don't know anymore.

SmartShadow, here's a question for you. I'm so confused about the day to day anymore. Am I just supposed to go on like none of this was revealed to me unless he wants to talk about it? Because that's what I feel like he wants. But to me, that's just him pushing it down and forgetting about it until his next appointment. And it's hard for me because I've read the books and I see him doing the things they talk about, and I see how he doesn't see it but I can't say anything or he says 'oh there's the elephant in the room again'. He just wants everything to be 'normal'. So am I just supposed to act like everything is normal and just keep going like I never found out as long as he's getting therapy?

I do have a T but I'm starting to think I may need one that specializes in this.

I need to go make an appointment with my T now.

 

[scottyg]

I'm so confused about the day to day anymore. Am I just supposed to go on like none of this was revealed to me unless he wants to talk about it? Because that's what I feel like he wants.

All we ever wanted was to feel normal and that got taken from us. So yes, as crazy as he seems, treat him with dignity and respect and like he is "normal". The thing about recovery is it has its own individual timeline. You pressing forward on an issue does not accelerate his healing. I myself have tried to accelerate issues within my own healing and fell flat on my face. You got to take the W I D E view on this. The day-to-day weirdness is just something to endure for the time being and our hope is these subside. Damaging behavior that is harmful to himself and/ or others must me addressed but in a compassionate way,not an accusatory one. Your comments here already reveal you as a caring and loving person so I do not doubt that you can manage these conversations with grace.

A damaged individual needs a good role model. A strong, empathetic and ACCEPTING wife will show him how to be strong, empathetic and accepting of himself. The hardest part about recovery is the pattern of beating ourselves up about our failures (real or imagined). The last thing we want is to hear our spouse remind us of those shortcomings. So let him dictate the discussion (or lack of discussion). Obviously a periodic check-in is OK. But do that under the auspices of concern not a point of umbrage.

That said, we need to be accountable, too. If chronic avoidance of an especially important issue is his M.O. then you might hold his feet to the fire if there's no long term traction. I like to think of it as a balance. On the one hand you have patience and understanding, but on the other you have your needs for safety, respect, intimacy, inclusion, etc. Be judicious how you tip that scale when you do.

All the best,

Scott A. Grossman

 

[PKP3]

Thank you Scott. I try and most days are good with us.

One of the things I struggle with is having to be so careful of my words with him. The past week I expressed to him that there are just some things that I wish he would take care of (for example our A/C went out) because when I have to take care of it then he asks me questions like well did they do this and did you ask them this. And I say this is why I wish you would do these things...because you're a man and you know about this stuff. I just have to go with what they are telling me. Well we got into it about the car and I said ask the other guys at work if they take their wife's car to get it fixed. So then it was that he's "failed me as a husband". I wasn't saying that at all and that's where he went with it and I know why and I felt so bad about it.

 

[SmartShadow]

Hi PKP,
I agree compleatly with Scott. Some times the best thing is to "act as if things are fine". The reason is to stop the emotionally triggered feedback loop. If I feel criticized I go defensive. I may react by withdrawing or acting like a wounded victim or express indignation or becoming critical myself. This is me trying to protect myself. Now you feel misunderstood and try to clarify to change my misunderstanding. I, still in defense mode, hear you confirming what I just herd you say the first time. Clearly your negative perspective of me hasn't changed so I repeat my self with a little more energy to get my point across.
You feal compleatly misunderstood, hurt by my response and frustrated that you can't just have a simple give and take conversation and talk about your need for thing to be different.

He was "critical" of how you didn't ask the right questions during the AC serviceyou. You responded by "defending" your self as well. It can be hard to see it.

Conversational and relational triggers like this are not about abuse and are common to all of us. Of corse life stresses (like going through trauma therapy) can make everything more intense and fragile.

The good news is this can be worked on. I recommend the marriage resources by John and Julie Gottman. I like there research based approach and it works.

The cycle and solutions will take time to learn. Take it a little at a time but stay with it. It will help a lot. The viedos helped me the most. Like anything to much to fast swamps the boat.

 

[scottyg]

Well we got into it about the car and I said ask the other guys at work if they take their wife's car to get it fixed. So then it was that he's "failed me as a husband". I wasn't saying that at all and that's where he went with it and I know why and I felt so bad about it.

Yeah, no. I call bullshit.As the "sane" partner in the relationship you need to stand up for non-distorted thinking. He will distort and distort and that is not his fault but the outcome of unaddressed trauma. However, you are not at fault when you re-frame a concern to make it about a material need and not some esoteric commentary on the relationship. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Again, there must be a role model that shows how balanced people behave. It sounds nuts but when you're so distorted by abuse it isn't obvious what "normal reactions" should be. Everything is an accusation and a slight and a personal affront and a confrontation... I been there. It is the war within superimposing itself on the rest of the world.

Don't bite. Remain simple. A car is just a car.

All the best,

Scott A. Grossman

 

[SmartShadow]

Yeah, no. I call bullshit.As the "sane" partner in the relationship you need to stand up for non-distorted thinking. He will distort and distort and that is not his fault but the outcome of unaddressed trauma. However, you are not at fault when you re-frame a concern to make it about a material need and not some esoteric commentary on the relationship. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Again, there must be a role model that shows how balanced people behave. It sounds nuts but when you're so distorted by abuse it isn't obvious what "normal reactions" should be. Everything is an accusation and a slight and a personal affront and a confrontation... I been there. It is the war within superimposing itself on the rest of the world.

PKP, I am not saying not to stand up for your self.
Scott, I here you and think it's a fair point.
But this is a bit of a trigger area for me in my own marriage so I ask for some grace in advance if I am come across to strong.

Fair disclosure, I am projecting from my own experance here. For me when I become the problem and the one with the problem and the one who's thinking is distortedly and the one with anger issues and the one who need help and the one has distorted thinking and... well you get the idea .... I shut down and just give up or worse try to stay in the conflict and try to defend my position.

Relationships are not easy for me and yes surviving csa is a big part of that. But imaging my relief as I became more and more familiar with the marriage relationship work by Gottman. Turns out I fall prey to the same relational mistakes that most men fall prey to.
Turns out all relational fallout in our marriage is not because I was physically and sexually victomized as a kid. Sure it has a massive impact on me and my wife don't get me wrong I understand the fallout all to well. But I believe the relational errors taking place here are common and can be worked on in conjunction with the trauma work.

I am a person with need and fears and hopes and dreams. I must own the reality of my abuse and it's efect on me and work to overcome and minimize the impact on myself and others. But I don't want to be the problem or the defective one. The truth is there's a lot of complexity to each of us. One need I think we all have, is to be heard and understood. To be seen. If we didn't learn how to do this growing up we can learn now. See if he's willing to watch a viedo on helping you have a better relationship. It is very eye opening. It has made a huge difrence with my wife and I. This is a global pandemic. Sliding all relational fallout into our partners csa deficiency basket maybe a mistake in my opinion.
Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[md4e]

Hi, I can say this is also what I have dealt with for over 30yrs. I didn't know of the csa the first 8, but it made a lot of things clearer, not right away but everyday as I try and understand it becomes understandable. Not 'right' or 'normal' because as my T says
Trying to make the abnormal normal is what causes the crazies.....words and actions not matching. Which to him was his 'normal' growing up. But WOW does it not work in a marriage. I agree with the bullshit comment, I have worked every day to not take all crap personal, some days I do it well and others not so pretty. Cause ya know what we have feelings we are human and we cry we feel pain. Just plain ache for some ease in this. We are prisoners of this also, (knowing I chose him, a willing prisoner) because we don't know what words or action will be taken personally as an attack. Then the work of telling ourselves. ..it's not me it is the past ruling.
And somedays I want to scream bullshit. My husband is a wonderful man, so loving, kind and the love of my life but the past covers everything with a thin veil of csa, which the weight of is heavy....for the both of us!
I wish he would make a commitment to healing, something I could feel between us. I know I can depend on myself and others but if things are anyway stressed or he senses someone wants of him....Bam in comes dissociation. Hard to feel a partnership when one of the parts is gone.
And all this is do able, it just sucks somedays and somedays I can't see how I will live to see bedtime. But I choose him, I choose us and our family.
I guess I don't really have any anwsers but wanted you to know you are not alone you are not crazy.....it is crazy to abuse children and we are dealing with the aftermath of that.
Wishing all of us "freedom" in so many ways.
D

 

[md4e]

I would like to also add that I personally feel that as marriage partners we should be kept in the loop...our spouses loop. Trust is such a main part in all this, we also need the reassurance of who we are partnered to. I can't help but wonder, what are we in all this if we can't be trusted with their story. And that story is just plain what they think and feel...about the past and now. I know I know that is what was taken away during the abuse. But how can this be an intimate relationship without that type of vulnerability. This is my biggest concern. I wanted/want that, life without so many questions. It wouldn't take much, especially if it comes spontaneously from him, without me feeling like an intruder....cuz if he's sensing I want from him...dissociation.
ok I will stop...thanks

 

[newground]

the things you speak of seem very typical to me pkp it is extremely draining as we find a way to try to deal with emotional baggage that has to come out. The cliche is true the only way past it is through it. I think the only thing that as wives and partners that we can manage is to continually remind the survivor that you are willing to talk and that he is not hurting you by sharing. there is a book that comes recommended to me by a therapist called "partners in healing" in that they describe many of the typical issues that arise and how to help the survivor through or help protect your own self. i would try to encourage him not to stop therapy it is hard and the memories do play but that is mostly in the beginning it does get better
hope that helps
Jeff

 

[scottyg]

Yes, I know what you are talking about exactly! It sucks to be the broken partner who is always wrong and needs correcting and doesn't see the forest, so to speak. When that is the one and only response you ever hear from people it certainly does create hostility. (admittedly I got that response quite a lot) SmartShadow, what you're touching on is a theme that isn't much discussed: humility. The survivor must be humble enough to accept critique and that is very hard because many of us cope by building up big strong egos to protect the damaged person deep inside.

However, nothing gets done without an honest approach. Calling bullshit on a melodramatic outburst about being a failed husband,because the AC is busted or the car needs new spark plugs seems important to me. The conversation can be de-escalated by accepting his feelings about the issue and then it can be gently re-framed for what it is... boring old life stuff. When I read the failed husband comment I recognized myself. I made giant indignant scenes at the smallest hint of criticism. That was the insecurity and lack of humility talking. BTW I still have those feelings sometimes... I've just harnessed the outbursts (mostly).

So SmartShadow is right. A proctoring approach will get you no where. Sometimes its smarter to let it go than gin up the resentment a comment will create. That is why my very first comment said be careful how you tip those scales when it comes to being critical. I also feel that conflicts can be easily blown out of proportion if spouses respond to the I'm a failure bait. It's a sneaky dysfunctional way to shift the responsibility from myself by vilifying my partner. I may've neglected this but you hate me and that makes you worse because now I'm the victim here! WE are super good at shit like that because most of us have done it forever. Healing is about breaking cycles. This dialectic is one of the many subtle cycles that needs to be broken down. As I said before, you seem like a caring and loving person and I have every confidence that you'll be able to navigate these rocky waters.

All the best,

Scott A. Grossman

 

[Bowierocks]

PKP ,

I read about the car and AC issue and hate to say it , this is exactly what is happening in our house . Wife says ' be a man'' of what do you think so and husband would do . . For me , the CSA made me question if I were a 'real man' despite being about 11 . Deep down I feel weak and ashamed I have let down my wife ,and despite that I do love my wife , she can be hypercritical at times and have a stereotypical view of what reL men do . Yes to some degree a cognitive distortions on my part secondary to abuse , but lots of affirmation and not comparing him to other guys at this time , is more likely to get the result you want - help with running the household . My PTSD was too the point that I couldn't focus on simple tasks for a while and just plain frustrating . So I guess I would advocate tolerance and acceptance . What I did was a okay solution , do what I can to help and hired a guy out of highschool to help out for cheap . Maybe a typical Doctor move , but this is an illness that can drain one and life is short so why not get help to prevent burnout and anger of the ' normal ' spouse . Also de- emphasizes a normal / patient relationship which is dis empowering and society says unmanly . Unfortunately , taking up the slack of daily reality eats away at a relationship is plays a key role in secondary PTSD .

 

[WG]

so true. I had wondered over the years if I was 'a real man' and looked at other guys as if they were - no matter who they were or where I was. Again, it is so true - 'they must know about me or they would speak to me better or treat me differently' or some such wording. Wrong. Wrong. How can anyone know casually unless we say something - yet its the nature of this. We assume everyone knows and will treat us accordingly. We see ourselves as second-rate or yesterday's news or worse. It took me many hours of therapy and crying and being angry and "talking to my perpetrator" with my therapist present of course - and talking and crying some more.
And as you said Bowierocks - taking up the slack of daily reality truly does eat away at relationships.

 

[Bowierocks]

What I think is the catch 22 of the situation is often i don't want sympathy as i don't want to be a burden or seen as being weak , yet at least for me when I decided I needed help , I did find that these very real masculine stereotypes work against me. That is very few want to see a male victim - even my wife who is a feminist . Probably a combination of not wanting to really recognize the trauma is real as it hurts her , and it conflicts with her vision of me being a protector and breadwinner . It was literally - get back on the horse . You are doing nothing but going on the Internet . My response , I am trying my best to get better and these people hear me . . Studies have shown that the quality of life is much worse in mental illness than congestive heart failure but for me it was infuriating having my wife and therapist say you need to start living in the here and now , despite that I never looked at this part of my past . That and with my PTSD I simply couldn't think straight for a while . It was bizarre - anyone have that ?

 

[WG]

Bowierocks - I do at least have a very supportive wife and therapist. I have 2 other men I talk to about life issues, too. However, there are times I just sit down and have a good cry. We oftentimes felt that if we were seen as having any sort of weakness, we aren't a man. Well, if any women who feel this way see a woman with a weakness, is it any different? Or is it OK because its 'one of them'? Sometimes I think that when others know we were abused, they think it was someone touching us in the swimming pool when we were 8 and it was just someone brushing up against us. Oh, how we wish it were only that! Just like everyone else in here, it wasn't just once nor was it just someone 'touching us'. As for 'get back on the horse' well, mine galloped away a long time ago and left me to walk this road alone.My therapist has gently guided me into the 'here and now' . I didn't know how to get beyond the pain and hurt of the past - I was living it all these years later (almost 50 -as I said before - I'm old). If I were you, I would find another therapist - I had 3 different ones before I found this present one (seeing him for 2 years now). Life is full of changes, as we know, and sometimes we need to make changes that are just for us - rude as that sounds - since we've had a hard life and deserve better.