Need advice---Accessing danger &Protecting my sons

Need advice---Accessing danger &Protecting my sons
C

Concerned Mom

New Registrant
Where to start? I have just found out that a relative sexually abused at least one of his step-sons as a young child many years ago. :(
The story as told by him varies a bit from the story told by other family members. He claims to have undergone counseling years ago, and that he no longer has a problem.
However, it seems from conversation with another family member last night, that the abuse took place over a time period of 6 or 7 years, while the child was 6yr--13 yr old. If this is true, even with conseling, should this man be allowed to touch (inocently appearing), like hold on his knee, tickling, playing with, etc. young boys? My inclination is to say, NO! Maybe he is harmless now, but hey, it would seem that he should know not to even put himself OR a child in a situation that can be misunderstood, to say the least.
I only found out about this because other family members saw his current behavior differently than my husband and myself saw it. They started freaking out and the "xxxx" hit the fan. There are a six and seven year old boy in the family, as well as a two year old girl....the grandchild of the abuser. These grandparents regularly babysit. I have concern not only for my boys, but also for the two year old. Also, I will be seeing one of the Mom's of the two year old in a couple of weeks. I hate the thought of ruining her vacation visit here...but feel that I will have to ask her if she is aware of the situation. Ouch! But I will certainly remember that this is not MY fault.
I do NOT know much about pedophile behavior, so have a LOT to learn to help me figure out guidelines for contact now. Fortunately, this relative lives in another country, and we don't have opportunity to see him often. I know, why would I want too?!
There is, of course, much more to this....and I have already called my former therapist this morning and left a message that I need to see her.....!!!
I am really anxious to hear your thoughts.
 
Concerned mom,

I don't think I in the position of giving too much help on this, but I will try, my number one concern is, has the kid involved had the necessary counselling? If not, then I think this should be of some priority.

I can really understand your well founded concern over this man, is he "cured", I think only a professional is qualified to go anywhere near that question. I too, would be horrified at seeing him with close contact with kids, but that is only a gut reaction, the same as yourselves.

Another thing to bear in mind, is that they don't normally have just one victim, there may be others who, maybe haven't come forward, and males are not always ready to do so, because of the "man" thing.
Abusers are generally very good at conditioning their victims' into not telling, this causes immense problems in later life, especially if not addressed at an early stage.

Hope this is helpful, but it is the only thing I can say given the sparse information above, bear in mind though, I am not a counsellor, just a victim.

Think you need a serious chat with this counsellor you phoned, before confronting the mother of the 2yr old.

take care

ste
 
Thanks for your response! The child involved is an adult, is addicted to heroin, has a very troubled life to say the least. He was already a struggling adult when I met him. I don't know what counseling he received at the time it all came out or later. The counseling of the abuser was done by a religous counselor....not fair of me maybe, but I wonder what training this person had? Apparently, an attempt was made on another brother, but that one told. I can't begin to understand how this could have continued....but I know it did, at the time. All of the children in this family have a good relationship with their "father"....it is difficult because I can't ask all of the questions I would like, and personally doubt that much of this has been dealt with. I will definately talk to the counselor before talking to the Mom of the 2 yr old! I do have a LOT of concern for any children vulnerable to being abused, and do NOT appreciate any excuses offered to me for not have told me of this before! As the widdowed mother of an eight year old when I married into this family, and now the mother of a six year olod also, I should have had knowledge about potential danger to my children! I feel it is inexcusable to have not shared that with me, and that is why I am thinking about bringing up the subject with the two year old's Mom. If she knows, that is fine. If she doesn't, she should!
 
It does seem that the kid, now an adult, does need help, can somebody guide him to it?

I am glad the other brother told of it, he may have became another victim.

On loving their "father", I have only read up on this one, maybe others can give better info, but when these things happen, they see the guardian, as, the one who looks after them, often they won't tell, because they may be put in a home, or thrown out of the house. The victim knows instintively, it is wrong, but quite often the perpetrator, tells the victim it is the way things happen in families, this can really screw up the mind of a young child.

The above is only what I read, I can't understand why police were never involved, and yes, I think you should have been told of the danger, so that you could indeed protect your own children.

Was the counselling done, through an order of a court?

I certainly would not let him anywhere your own kids, but he is too far away to do that, which should put you're mind at ease.

ste
 
I don't know much about this either, but I do wonder why, if someone has been treated for their offending behavior, he would not tell the same story about his offense as someone else. It seems from what I've read that honesty and responsibility are pretty key parts of rehabilitation.

If some other family members have "freaked out" already, maybe it won't seem bad at all for you to calmly address this topic with the other mom. :)

I would think that the best way to keep your kids safe would be to educate them, not just about this particular relative, but about sexual abuse in general, in an age appropriate way of course, and also to make sure that your kids always know they can come to you and be believed, never judged, for what they say.

Thank you for being a concerned mom,
SAR
 
What a dreadful dilemma?

If the guy is 'cured' then should he be allowed to live a normal life? My view is "to a degree"
The people who come into contact with him should know about his past. I think a perp would be unlikely to re-offend if he knew he was being closely watched.

If his wife doesn't know, then I think she should - especially if there are new children to this relationship ( perhaps hers from a previous relationship? )

I might be a bit biased as a Survivor, but I wouldn't cut him much slack at all.
If his wife is a true friend of yours then she'll surely understand your motives. If she doesn't, what does it say about your friendship?

I don't envy you at all, but I admire your courage and commitment towards your children. Ensuring that there are no more victims of this man must surely be the right thing to do.

Dave
 
I would not let my kid be around anyone who I knew was a paedophile. Maybe the guy has got counselling, maybe he doesn't do it anymore, but for me, that wouldn't make any difference. The rates for paedophiles reoffending is pretty high and I would not take that risk with my child. He was trusted with children and he took advantage of that and did a terrible thing, he shouldn't be around children and be given the chance to do it again. It only takes him to do it one more time and that's someone's life messed up, the risk is too high.

As for the other mother, then yeah, I think she's got a right to know, I would be distraught if I didn't know my kid was close to someone who had abused. I know you don't want to ruin her vacation, but does that really compare to looking out for the safety of her child. You're right, it's not your fault, don't feel bad about anything, all you can do is look out for the kids and tell any parents what he's done.

Good Luck!
 
Couple of points.
The counseling of the abuser was done by a religous counselor....not fair of me maybe, but I wonder what training this person had?
Click to expand...
As someone who has worked with sexual abusers for more than 25 years as specialist with this population, I would be very skeptical about someone with a religious orientation unless s/he was trained specifically in this area.

While abusers who get competent sex offense-specific treatment are less likely to recidivate, I would be concerned if he does things which cause your gut to wonder what is going on, especially if he is not sensitive to other's boundaries.

Successful graduates of offender-specific therapy are generally VERY aware of perception (i.e., being sensitive to what the behavior may look like to others.) If you give me the location (city/state) of this person, I may be able to find some trained specialists who could evaluate him to see what he knows/learned and whether he is applying the knowledge.

In any event, if you or anyone else has concerns about the behaviors of someone who MIGHT be a potential sexual abuser, you can call 1 888 PREVENT and talk about them with someone who is trained to help folks sort out normal or suspicious behaviors. The phone number is for Stop It Now!, an organization formed by a sexual abuse survivor to work on preventing sexual abuse. You can also go to their website, www.stopitnow.com

Ken
 
Personally, I would simply never let my kids near him without me being there constantly. This is a terrific burden -- as I'm sure you know -- since it means I have to be constantly on alert. Even normal social activities, like having a drink or using the restroom, become huge challenges. So because of the burden of this, I'd do my best to avoid him altogether and make sure that when I can't, I stay right on top of the kids when he's in the same location.

Take care.
 
Thank you all....

About steering the victim (s?) towards counseling---he is in his late twenties now, so of course has to be ready and willing. The country he lives in has socialized healthcare. I will try to find out what he has been offered.

I will be seeing the wife of the abuser next month when she visits here. Fortunately, by then I will have seen my therapist and will be a little better prepared for the conversation I would like to have with her.

In discussion with my husband last night, we agreed that I will call the mother of the two year old that is currently being cared for occasionally and confirm that BOTH parents are aware of this grandfather's past behavior. I know she knows what was done to her brother, just don't know if her partner knows. She will at least have warning that if her partner does not know, she soon will. Having been inexcusably left in the dark, I will not participate in leaving someone else in the dark!!

Husband also agreed that he will see counselor with me, and read books to get a better understanding of the subject. Also, that as the least trusting of this past abusers "recovery", I will be the parent who sets guidelines for further contact. Right now, that would include NEVER leaving any children alone with the abuser even with his wife present. Also allowing NO physical contact. That will be difficult to explain even two years from now, but, such is life.

Thank you all so much for your help! Having struggled with and survived other, different challenges in my life, I wish for all of you survivors, family and friends strength, good health, and happiness.
 
The thing that comes to me is, "it only takes once". Is it worth risking the welfare of the children?

If someone is a recovering alchoholic, they don't go into bars. Even 20 years later they don't go into bars. Why dangle temptation in front of someone who admittedly has a problem?

Children deserve to be kept safe, whatever it takes. If someone who has responsibility for a child doesn't know of the danger, they can't make responsible choices to keep that child safe. If I were the mother of the 2 year old, or the father, or whatever, I would want to know. If anything happened, and they found out someone knew, more than XXXX is gonna hit the fan.

Lynn
 
HI,
at first i wasnt going to add anything to this posting string. but then i just couldnt stop myself.
when my girls were 9 & 10 yrs old we were at a friends house. A neighbor girl appeared who knew not only my girls but also one of the daughters my girls and I were visiting. she had visible scratch marks on her & my girls were screaming upset as this girls foster grandmother had slammed the child in between a door and the door jam and physical beat her in front of my own girls.
My girls were traumatized needless to say because physical violence etc just was NOT something that ever occurred in our house nor had they ever been exposed to it.
I thot at the time I was making the right choice in calling the police, to have the child placed in protection. However, the cop who showed up after the foster grandmother attempted to retrieve the child from me (us we were in a friends home) I refused to allow her to take the child, she had brought with her (the foster grandmother 2 other foster children & bio kids) - they all ran behind my back. I told this woman, and I was scared to death as I did it, that I had called the police and would NOT release the kids to her without the police or child protective services taking them some where they deemed safe.
The cop showed up late enuff that most of the physical scratches (around her throat etc) were faded & very few of the deeper scratches were of anything to actually (according to cop) do anything about. What happened also that split a friendship is that my "friend" proceeded to tell the cop who showed up that I was "Biased, as I was an adopted child who had been abused". The cops response to this? "Child if you had grown up in my house you would have gotten it a whole lot worse than you did."
This made my blood boiling, my daughters were seeing that the folks I had told them they should trust if anything should happen to them were treating their friend like absolute shit.
The cop also had the balls to turn to me and say " You should know that "foster kids" have a whole bunch of problems and are always calling the cops about everything."
I was flabbergasted to say the least, the children were taken back to this foster grandmother/home. I let my girls listen as I continued to tell my so called friend what a mis informed, stupid bitch she was & that I was highly offended that she would even reveal things said to her in confidence to any one let alone in front of our children. I took my own children home and had to try to explain what a mess that was and hold them as they sobbed for their friend, and I cried also for the child and myself and my own crap along with them.
I called an 800 child abuse reporting number -- they were kind but informed me that "you should have asked for a juvinile officer to respond" -- all I could think of at that pointless comment the way it was said was -- How in the fuck is ANYONE supposed to KNOW that? isnt a cop a cop?
The following AM I received a phone call from this child's so called social worker -- she took my side of the story, I gave facts only, she told me that they had & were now placing the foster family into "family counseling".
Two weeks later almost exactly to the day, my daughters came home from school to inform me that this child that we had attempted to get help for was PREGNANT AT AGE 9 BY THE FOSTER FATHER!!!
sorry but to this day I am still pissed off about the whole event and how this girls life has unfolded. -- I was pissed because now not only did I have to explain that the very people they were "Supposed" to be reporting things to, hurt kids, but how in the fuck does a parent explain how a 9 year old gets pregnant. This child was so far into her 2nd term of pregnancy ... oh daaammmm, anyway she then was placed with a family who said to her "if you place your child up for adoption we will adopt you & take good care of you, but you must never have contact with the baby" --- to add insult the fucker who molested her actually tried to sue for visitation rights of the child while he was incarcerated!!
Her life has been a tuff one since then, and she has a couple more kiddoes....
Leaving the Fox to watch the Hen house ---
then after this whole fiasco I find out that my "friend" her brother had not only molested and served time (probabtion) for molesting his own kids , neices , nephews etc... and yes he supposedly had gone thru therapy .. blah blah blah.... later he remarried, no one bothered to tell the new step children NOT to let him babysit their kids --- well time passed and yep he got those kids too ---
He has recently been released from prison, --- should someone tell if someone knows someone is a convicted sex offender --- YES YES YES YES YES
the worst thing that could happen by telling is that the person you tell wont beleive you, they may call you a liar or you may never have a relationship ---- But if choosing NOT to tell, is far riskier.....

just my experience and opinion...
Peace, Sammy
 
Sammy!
I am sooooo sorry. I said it before, "they" tell the kids...and us...to TELL. Then when someone gets the guts and does, "they" don't want to believe it. "Oh that NICE person couldn't POSSIBLY do such a thing!" Don't "they" know how good these abusers are at shmoozing? They are expert shmoozers! How else could they cover their butts?! Funny how the kid can have a detailed story, which never changes, and the adult says 'nope, didn't happen' and that's it.

The one thing I did learn from talking to Scotty last week, was HE appreciated what we tried to do for him, even if he wasn't believed by the people he was supposed to be trusting. I do believe him. It felt to me like 'they' were trying to convince him it didn't happen! Then they would get him to agree to "try" to get along. When he would get back into the situation and it was no different, he would go ballistic, and "they" would say "See? He's not trying." AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! (This wasn't the SA...this was other stuff.) As far as the SA is concerned, "they" went and asked the "alleged abuser." Oh yeah like he's going to just admit it. Instead, they did kind of a "he went thataway!" thing, and turned it on me. Brilliant. I am convinced though that the legal people really do know. That is a relief.

So what's the answer these days? I'm not sure, but I'm learning. If a kid ever comes to me again and says this or that happened, I'm going to do EXACTLY the same thing, and tell them to TELL someone who can DO something. No more church people, that's for sure. They don't want to believe anything bad, whether it's true or not. Welllll....unless it's Father Bob! It will be someone who knows what they're listening to. Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty.

Sammy, those kids will never forget you. You tried.

((((((((((Sammy))))))))

Lynn
 
Lynn,
I did ok thru your posting until I got to your last line .... and then I cry.
I''m not so sure WHY I reckon some for me, some for my girls, some for the girl who was not believed by the "THEY's" of this world, and some for the many who are not and have not been believed.
It scares the living shit right out of me to think that in even this supposedly "enlightend" world that our children still are not believed, they are turned on, blamed, used and abused and then we wonder why they rebell against this raging world....
The kiddoes have a right to be pissed at us, many of us have let them down -- and in doing so let our selves down.
the line of acceptability just keeps getting pushed farther and farther back....

I'd do it all again Lynn, if I could have the knowledge to have called for a Supervising cop on the Scene or have had the knowledge of calling for a specialist juvinile officer --- or even if I had to to take the child and hide her underground until she could be safe and become an adult to make her own choices....
I have to live with knowing that I did the best I could given the knowledge I had.... but in truth it still seems so little compared to the outcome of this particular childs life.
She/& SCotty may never forget the good stuff, the attempts to protect them..... they even may wobble with feelings just as I /& you do ---- I just hope to God that when I face my Creator I get cut just a little slack in my screw up pile for having tried...
sorry i'm sad and having a shitty day --- and I again babble on far too freaking much
Peace, SAmmy
 
Originally posted by Pollyanna:
The thing that comes to me is, "it only takes once". Is it worth risking the welfare of the children?

If someone is a recovering alchoholic, they don't go into bars. Even 20 years later they don't go into bars. Why dangle temptation in front of someone who admittedly has a problem?

Children deserve to be kept safe, whatever it takes. If someone who has responsibility for a child doesn't know of the danger, they can't make responsible choices to keep that child safe. If I were the mother of the 2 year old, or the father, or whatever, I would want to know. If anything happened, and they found out someone knew, more than XXXX is gonna hit the fan.

Lynn
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I was thinking. Even if it "only happens once" the scars on the child will be life long. The child will learn to adapt to what happened to him but the child will be ALWAYS be impacted. There's no going back.

If I was in your shoes I wouldnt ever leave my kids in the vicinity of a known pedophile -"recovered" or not, and to keep my conscience unburdened I'd also tell everyone who's kids might also come in contact with that person. Some people may not like that you've done so, and some ppl may react with bizarre, angry or accusatory behaviour, but so what. Sometimes we have to risk that in order to "stand up" and do the right thing. And its important to remember that the right thing is NOT ALWAYS the easy thing (right, Lynn?)

Its one thing if a recovered alcoholic slips off the wagon - he only hurts himself. But if someone's addiction involves hurting children, then there's got to be FIRM preventative line drawn.
 
Sammy and Lynn,

Oh Oh Oh I am so sorry!

To all of you, please try not to worry, I promise I will make sure the mom I am seeing next week knows. I also promise to ALWAYS tell.
 
This reminds me in a way of the angry scenes in one of our cities ( Bristol I think ) a few years ago when a known, convicted, and supposedly reformed pedophile was moved into a house on a large council estate ( social housing )and was named, and his location disclosed, by a Sunday newspaper.

There were near riots in the streets, whole families were out protesting for a couple of days until he was moved on, and obviously made anonymous again.

Very few people here at MS, or those I know within the Survivors movement here, are completely convinced that perps can overcome their desires.
Certainly not easily anyway, especially the "career pedo'"
Maybe the "opportunist offender" can turn themselves around?
And "we", the people here at MS, have more information and knowledge than most of the public do. So how is the average parent going to think?
My bet is that most don't believe in rehabilitation one bit, and who can blame them when the media tends to concentrate on the worst cases that often expose years of constant abuse towards multiple victims?

If we know who "they" are, at the very least we can take steps to protect other kids. But it can also result in the 'perp' going underground as well, often with police protection. At least they know where they are!

A few years ago I was sceptical of the US "Megan's Law" - but I don't hear of too many perps / ex-perps being run out of town by mobs.
I think everyone has a right to know who "they" are and where they are because there are no guarantees attached to claims of 'curing' offenders.
We can't guarantee that mass murderers won't kill again either, but we tend to see them serving longer sentences than serial sex offenders.

If I have a suspicion, then I act upon it without any hesitation. Just as I would if someone "didn't know" about a potential perp / previously convicted perp that had possible access to their children.

I've just figured out that I've used half a page to agree with Archnut !

Dave
 
Why do these people not believe us?
I really don't get it. My son was sexually
assulted by his 5th grade teacher in 1997.
Yup we called the cops they did a report and concluded "lack of evidence". If you see in schools they have those emergancy lights in the corner of all halls. My son actually thought they were video cameras to watch so they weren't bad and told the detective "just get the video out of the camera at the end of the hall, that will show you I am telling the truth" Grrrr.
The teacher was given a early retirement package and hasn't taught AT OUR SCHOOLS since. But we see him at Walmart and food shooping on occasion. My son will be graduating this year and if he is out on his own, I'm afraid he might see him and have a panic attack alone. He turns white as a ghost and can't move. ANy idea how to help him move on. He has had counciling for over 2 years with NOVA in our County for Victims but when he sees him I get soooo mad and let everyone know there is a child molester in the building...any help?
 
It was way back in 1964 that I wasn't believed by my headmaster, and reading your post makes me so.....
mad, angry and sad. Has nothing changed?

But "changed" or not, the most important thing is moving your son on, and avoiding meltdown when he see's the perp.
Hopefully the therapy makes some inroads towards this, but I think the love and trust of all those people he feels close to is going to be your best way forward. From the anger and concern in your post I get the feeling he already has that.

For me the various perps that abused me, and the headmaster who betrayed me are "non people" now, I just don't give a flying f**k about them anymore, the only important people to me are "me" and those I love and care for.
It wasn't easy getting here, but the less I focused on them the more I focused on my recovery.
I let thoughts of revenge and justice go, which I admit is a selfish thing to do, but who's more important? the survivor or the perp?

Dave
 
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