My Friend. (Maybe Triggers)

My Friend. (Maybe Triggers)
D

Donna M M

Registrant
My friend John, was sexually abused as a child for a long time by many different people.. He would not get help professionally, as he saw this as a sign of weakness. I'm not a professional in any way but, besides me the only other person he's told was his sister. They, were both adopted and not related at all. His parents are gone now. They passed away some time ago. I have been doing what I could for many years, trying to get John to a therapist and to stop his drinking.

John the other day was finally caught in work drinking, and was fired. They have a no tolerance policy, and that includes alcohol. He was covering it up with breath mints and gum. John's story is sad and as of yesterday it got even sadder. I got a call from his sister yesterday morning, John was in the hospital and I needed to come down there. No other information was given to me at the time and I raced down there hoping it was alcohol withdrawal and he'd finally get help with that and his abuse as a child. When I got there, I found out that my hopes were dashed, John had tried suicide and may well succeed since, they were working on him at the time and he was in critical condition. John took and overdoes and cut his wrists. John passed away last night/this morning at 12:32 am. They couldn't save him. When I saw him he was unconscious and the Doctors said they weren't hopeful of him regaining consciousness.

I'm having a lot of trouble with this but, I can't seem to cry. That bothers me. I've known John since we were 12. We are both 47 now. I, 6 months older than he. He was born on Christmas, 1957.

I feel as though I didn't do enough for him. I wasn't even there when he passed away, having to leave to pick up my Grandson and watch him so his parents ( My daughter and her husband) could go to a football pre-game at Foxboro stadium. I should have been at the hospital. I know he wasn't awake at all but, I still should have been there. I don't know what signs I missed, so this wouldn't have happened.

I was emailing with a member here when I got the call about John. I feel bad that I laid all this stuff on him. It wasn't fair of me. I'm afraid I rambled on and on about John to him and possibly made things worse for him. I don't know what to do. I'm confused and sick. I don't know what I could have done. I just keep thinking, What did I miss. He must have been trying to tell me but, I missed it. He didn't leave a note. His sister and I don't know what brought him to this. I know he wouldn't handle being abused for many years as a child. Alcohol was his way of handling it. I should have done more. I just don't know what. I can see I'm rambling again, forgive me. I haven't slept since I woke up yesterday morning at 5 am. I guess I just needed to vent and I don't think I'm doing a very good job of it right now. I'm all mixed up. I just want to know why? I don't think I'll ever know. I can only guess. What else could I have done? Why can't I cry when, I feel so bad? Where did I go wrong?
 
Donna
you did everything you could, maybe more.
We're not easy people Donna, sadly.

Your grieving will come I'm sure, when you're ready.

Remember your good times with John.
Dave
 
Donna:
My condolences to you. It is a shame that your friend was so distressed that he did what he did. Unfortunatley, there is probably nothing you could have done to prevent this.

You can beat up on yourself for what you think you could or should have done, but the reality is that there is nothing you could have done to prevent this tragedy.

Be comforted in your friendship to him and know that you did all that you could have done in his painful life.

Ken
 
Donna, I am very sorry for your loss. In the time I have been at this site, there have been some such losses here also. No one does anything wrong. The 'done wrong' has been done long ago. If a person is more motivated to die then live, they will. No one is responsible for it, and no one can stop it from happening. Again, I am very sorry. Please take good care yourself.

Leosha
 
Donna - When someone is in that much pain, they arrive at their ultimate solution as THE only way to finally put an end to that pain. Having you in his life probably helped your friend in more ways than you will ever know. But as his friend, you could not have dissuaded him or influenced him if he was hurting that badly. Please remember to celebrate the goodness & love in yourself even as you mourn & begin to heal.
 
Thank you... Lloydy, Ken, Kolisha54, and Leosha.
It's been hard. I'm happy that, I finally cried. It felt good for, a short amount of time. I think, we all feel guilty when something like this happens. I've been trying not to but, since I was the closes to John, I feel that there's something that I've missed like, I wasn't paying attention like, I should have been. His sister, won't even talk about the abuse he's suffered as a child, she wants to sweep it under the rug. I was trying to talk to her today about it and she was afraid someone would hear us and know. No one was there that could have. I think she's been in denial for a long time. She once told me many years ago that, if she doesn't have to confront it ( The Abuse)then, in her mind it didn't happen and she, doesn't have to think about it. I found that to be very selfish of her and told her so. She really didn't much care what I thought. She's a loner and likes it that way.

We got most of the arraignments done yesterday. John didn't have any type of life insurance so, I have to take out a loan tomorrow so we can finish the arraignments.

He really was a wonderful person. John would give you the shirt off his back. He'd give out money to anyone that needed it so much so, I was feeling like he may be getting used sometimes. I just wish he had found love at some point. I don't know if that would have helped or not. I just wish he could have felt it besides, in friendship. He was too young and could have done so much. I really wish he was still here. I miss him terribly. If only we could go back in time, Maybe, I would have seen some sort of a sign that this was coming? I don't know. I was told that I will be angry with him sooner or later. I was told that there's fazes of grief. I don't want to be mad at him. I loved him. He really was my best friend all through life. It was hard to cope with him at times but, I did, and I knew I could keep doing it. He needed someone to be able to tell. That was me. I do feel privileged to have been the one that he trusted. I just wish he trusted me enough to tell me he wanted to die! Damn! I guess I am getting mad!

Thank you all for your words of comfort.


Ken? May I ask what LCSW means? I know, I saw a Woman a while ago trying to get John into treatment for the 100th time and, I think she had that after her name and a few more things.


Again, Thank you all. This is truly a wonderful place with wonderful people.
 
I can't stop thinking. I'm sure that's normal. Can anyone tell me why John would go through life for so long with this secret and then do this? He's been living with CSA for so long now, why did it end like this after all we've been through together? Why now? What makes a person just wake up and say, No more one day. I know he wasn't getting any help, professionally but, Why now? So many years have passed since the SA stopped. I also don't understand why, all of you can seek help and he refused. It's been a battle to try and get him help for many years. I don't understand that, if you're hurting that bad, why you wouldn't want help. He said, medicine or therapy was a sign on weakness. I don't know if he really believed that or it was just a way to avoid what he had to do. Can anyone tell me why, why now? He was self medicating in my opinion, all the time with Alcohol. I just don't understand. I wish I did. I'm just having a hard time with the whys?

Johns wake is today and tonight. We'll be burying him tomorrow morning at 10 am. That is, as long as I get the loan which, I know I will. I have a good bank, and they know me. Do people that do this realize what they do to the ones, they left behind? I know the people that did this to him, don't think about it at all. I'm sure they think they didn't do anything wrong. That, I just don't get either. How can you possibly think that hurting a child is okay and the child will just forget and grow up normal? Why do they do this anyway? Can't they just look for, and date adults? Why do people find the need to rape children? Is it power? I just don't understand a lot of this. I wish I did, then maybe I could have done more. I'm sorry, I can't stop thinking. My mind keeps racing and 10 things are going on in my head all the time. I have questions and I'm not sure they can be answered. John, didn't leave a note or any idea what was going on at that time with him. I talked to him about 1 am in the morning the night before he was found. I didn't hear anything different in his voice or his personality. Was he thinking about suicide then? Do you just wake up really depressed and just do it? I'm rambling again. I just have so much on my mind and no answers to my questions. John took most of the answers with him. Sometimes I feel that, he was selfish and other times I feel he's been released from his pain. Now, I don't know what to feel. I don't want to blame John, he didn't ask for what was done to him, and I know he couldn't stop it. He was very young. I can't help wondering if, he blamed himself...
 
Licensed Clinical Social Worker

Master's degree in Social Work, plus 2000 hours of supervision, plus taking a licensing exam.

Have strength and comfort.

Ken
 
Donna
when you are abused, or like yourself, a friend of someone abused, there are too many "why's".

I don't know why I was abused, and I sometimes wonder if my abusers know why either.
But I dont dwell on "why".
Somehow it's way down my list of priorities, my priority is me, my wife, my family and friends. Things that are current in my life, and things that affect all our futures.
The past is gone and done with, I cant change it any more that I can stop the rain. But my life I can change, and I'm doing just that.

It's a tragedy that John couldn't face making those changes. But some people just can't do it. I don't call it weakness, and neither do I call it streength. It's just one of those things that seems right at the time for some people.
I have lost my childhood friend this way, he was abused with me at school. But one day he could face no more. I nearly lost my brother, for reasons other than abuse.
Why? I don't think we'll ever know. John, like my friend Mick, did take their answers with them.

I know you're going to ask "why" for a while to come yet, but try not to become consumed by asking "why?" - instead ask "what can I do?"
John survived in his own way until now, that took great strength. Take that strength and run with it, remember him as the man he was.

My father in law, a wonderful Irishman, used to say "Live for today, and let tommorow look after itself." To that I'd add, "and yesterday is gone"
We can learn from our pasts, but we ain't gonna change them.

Dave
 
Donna,

Ah, where to begin? Everything to this point probably sounds like cliche' when you're going through a loss like this. No explanation, no words, can ease your mind. You're so sure it's your fault. You wish that your friend hung around for one second more so that you could change their mind. There is no peace because you didn't do anough. It was all your fault.

I know this because I've lost people through suicide too. Once in college, the other, a very dear friend of mine here.

Donna, you did everything you could. These bastards, for that is what indeed they are, do such a good job on us that they make us feel like we're less than nothing. They make us lose hope. We DO lose hope, and then, sometimes, we make the wrong decision and leave tworld before our time. It's sad when we do this, yes, it is, but it was OUR decision. If we want to kill ourselves, if we're so deep in despair, we will DO it. It doesn't matter. We'll lie and tell everyone it's okay, we'll plan it out so that nothing will change if someone finds us. We will do it and damn the consequences.

I say this not to be cruel, but to tell you that you truly did everything you could've done. That your friend decided that there was no more hope is a tragedy given to him by the animals who hurt him, not a tragedy of your own making. It's sad, but he made the final choice. Be sure of that.

Also be sure that he took comfort from you.

I talked about "we" when describing people who commit suicide. Well, Donna, I was one. I tried a couple fo times. Couldn't do it, and it was for the most selfish of reasons. I wanted to live and I was too scared of Hell to die. I know what your friend was going through and when you're in that deep you see no other way out.

It's not your fault. You have no guilt to carry. Please let it go.

I had to for my friend, Jay. I didn't do enough and he died. I carried that guilt for too damn long, and there are times when I still have to let it go. But you know what? He tells me that it wasn't my fault. Those who've gone before us still speak to us, if we only stop to listen. God understands despair, so he's enerv exclude someone who was ill, and you friend, my sweet, good, Jay, are being taken care of.

So listen for your friend. Tell him you're angry at him for deciding what he did. Rail at him if you're mad. Tell him you miss him and wish he just made another choice. Tell him you love him and you feel guilty. He'll talk to you, and he'll probably say he's sorry he did this to you, that it was his pain that drove him to it, not anything you did or didn't do, and he'll tell you he loves you.

Love never dies, Donna. And he knows.

I hope you do, too.

If you need me, PM me. I care.

Peace and love,

Scot
 
Originally posted by Donna M M:
I think, we all feel guilty when something like this happens. I've been trying not to but, since I was the closes to John, I feel that there's something that I've missed like, I wasn't paying attention like, I should have been.

**stuff snipped**

Maybe, I would have seen some sort of a sign that this was coming? I don't know. I was told that I will be angry with him sooner or later. I was told that there's fazes of grief.

*more stuff snipped*

Damn! I guess I am getting mad!

Thank you all for your words of comfort.

Click to expand...
Donna - I grew up with an alcoholic suicidal father who also was struggling with his own abuse issues. He has attempted suicide 3 times in my lifetime. The last time he tried was Labour Day weekend, 2001 by overdosing on tranquilizer drugs and alcohol.

One thing I have struggled with my whole life growing up with a suicidal parent was always moderating my behaviour, always watching over my shoulder to ensure that nothing I did tipped him off into the "self destruction" zone - and I spent a LONG time "living my life for him" becuse he was so unstable and I was afraid he'd abandon us if I didnt "live up" to some pretty insane expectations.

I long since learned LONG ago there's little that I or anyone could do to save him or indeed ANYONE who's determined to destroy himself, no matter how perfect, no matter how poised, how pleasant or ANYTHING I could be. There was little that I could have done to please or save him. And to live my life to placate his moods, to "save him" or to think that there wwas any more that I could do to help him was a fast trip to my own emotional crisis. I spent many years trying to deal with my own fallout issues of neglect, abandonment, anxiety/trauma and depression because of my dad's unresolved issues.

To think that we have more control over other people who are so distressed and so hurting that they cannot think about the people they leave behind is absolute madness. We have very LITTLE control over the people in our lives, and especially with those who are so mired in their own pain they cannot look outside that to how they may affect others.

I think you can rest assured that you DID everything you could to help him - you were a friend, he talked to you about things, but in the end, the battle over his abuse was HIS battle to fight, and he chose to end the battle this way. There's nothing anyone could have done.

Suicide is sad, and terrifying and horrendously heartbreaking and all of that all balled up into one big pain. An acquaintance of mine committed suicide this spring - she was in the same position as your friend and decided to leap off her 16th floor apartment balcony in June, leaving a common-law husband and 2 kids (2 and 7).

I well aware from my home experiences and that recent one as well of the anger that is all part of this as well - you are already starting to demonstrate anger which is normal - you may even find yourself being angry at John which is also totally normal - dont feel guilty if in the midst of your grief you find yourself angry at John as well. While we still love the people who are suicidal (or who succeed in their suicide attempts) there's always a big part of us that's really angry at them (and those that contributed to their pain) too because they didnt or couldnt see that OTHERS cared about them that OTHERS would lose something valuable if they chose to end their life and now its US who have to go on and shoulder the pain of losing (or in my case, almost losing - there's still no guarantee for me that my dad will never attempt again). Anyhow.. I guess what I'm trying to say is that your expression of anger at this point is TOTALLY normal... hold on for the rollercoaster of emotions, they'll likely be cycling high and fast over the next little while. VERY normal in the acute stages of a shock/grief process.

Just remember when you're thinking that there was more that you could do - as I said there is LITTLE anyone can do to save someone who is intent on destroying themselves. Suicide is such a selfish/self-oriented act that there is little recognition of others by the suicidal person to begin with.... and especially if the suicidal person is a heavy drinker - the biochemical effect of long term heavy alcohol use is enough to convince ANYONE that life is not worth living. And unforutnately people who do commit suicide are so mired in their own pain there's little space for those of us who do care about them to try and get in there and help, even if we do manage to pick up on the warning signs, its highly likely they wouldnt be able to even listen to what we had to say, ESPECIALLY if they were still an active alcoholic/drug user. Also even if we do see any warning signs theres always a big dose of doubt inside us, we doubt our friends/loved ones would actually go out and do something that severe and that insane.. so PLEASE dont blame yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think self-blame is a normal part of the grieving process for dealing with a suicide, but PLEASE PLEASE even if only intellectually you can accept you did all you could (its sometimes hard to accept that there ws nothing you could do on the emotional level) but keep reminding yourself that you alredy helped a LOT and there was nothing else you could do to help.

P
 
Originally posted by crisispoint:
So listen for your friend. Tell him you're angry at him for deciding what he did. Rail at him if you're mad. Tell him you miss him and wish he just made another choice. Tell him you love him and you feel guilty. He'll talk to you, and he'll probably say he's sorry he did this to you, that it was his pain that drove him to it, not anything you did or didn't do, and he'll tell you he loves you.

Love never dies, Donna. And he knows.

Click to expand...
Oh my gawd this made me cry. This is so amazing.
 
Thank you all for your words of Comfort. It's true, I'm on a Roller Coaster ride right now. It was harder than I though it woudl be to let go. After the wakes I went home but couldn't sleep only to be burrying him at 10 am the next day. People had all sorts of questions that they somehow thought I could answer. I couldn't. I was yhe only one besides his sister ( who didn't show up for the second wake) that knew about the abuse. I couldn't tell anyone. So, they think he just killed himself for no reason. I can't believe some of the qusetions people will ask you at a time like that.

I haven't been in here because I had another computer crash, I think it's the SP2 that microsoft is sneaking in our computers while we least expect it. I got a PM from someone but lost it since it comes to me via email and my email messages were lost also. I had to do a full system restore.


John will always be in my heart, I am mad at him roght now, I also feel sorry for him. Very mixed emotions are going on. I hope he will talk to me, I want to know he's still there. I want him to tell me he doesn't feel any more pain and it was his choice to make. I jsut don't want to feel the pain..I do.


Maybe, I couldn't have done anything, I was thinking that if I had seen some sign that, I could talk him out of it and into therapy. I don't think I could have done that. If you're that intent on doing what he did then, I guess you're going to do it.

Thank You all for all you said. It helps, especially after what others have asked me at the wake.

Thanks Ken for letting me know what that stood for.


I need a break, it's only been two days since he's been gone for good. It feels strange putting someone in the ground. It's strang but, as long as you have wakes to go to, their still around, it feels horrible when it comes time to say good-bye for good. I'll always love and miss him. Always...
 
donna,

i am so sorry for the loss of your dear friend john as well.

the abuse we suffered did cause us a lot of pain and suffering and the things john did, i did, and many others do were ways of coping with it, be it avoiding it, hiding it, medicating it, etc.. sadly enough, some finally can't deal with it and decide to end the pain and suffering themselves, i so hate it for them and their loved ones. then i have to say even though i doubt some of it, it is god's plan- he is no longer suffering, he lived a life and through the pain- he did some great things and was a great person, we were just screwed up.

noone could help us unless we were willing to help ourselves. i have had dear friends and families that i acutally pulled away from when they got to close or made me un-comfortable. it was me, not them.

i am sorry for your pain and doubt and wonder of what you may have done or did not do. i think that is normal and very understandable. please don't feel guilty. from what i read, you made a positive difference in his life and he yours. be thankful and try to have good memories of the good, not the despair.

i am wishing you peace and blessings this sunday a.m.

we all need real, true good un-conditional friends like you. we who have been abused, just don't realize it and know it sometimes.

peace and i am sorry again for the loss of your dear friend john.

guy
 
Originally posted by guy:
donna,

"he did some great things and was a great person, we were just screwed up"
Click to expand...
Guy: Take it easy on yourself. Survivors are doing the best that they can under extreme circumstances. The fact that many survivors react to abuse in common ways shows that its NOT the survivor that's screwed up. People act in weird ways when under/after experiencing extreme stress. Survivors, whether they are acting out, self harming, etc. etc. are responding completely NORMALLY to some highly abnormal experiences. The responses are just not very healthy, that's all, and its all too sad that some of these "commom" responses sometimes include self harm and suicide, leaving pain and anguish for those left behind.

P
 
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