mother-son incest (may trigger)

mother-son incest (may trigger)
C

Caetel

Registrant
Ok I have no idea how I am going to frame all that stuff I have in my head.
I am writing because I want to SCREAM at the horrid bitch who hurt my love V so bad. My rage is coming from so deep inside it's frightening. And fuck it I want to break the taboo !
Why all that stuff now ? Well I have been rethinking (again !)all the twisted scenario that developed until "horrible break up" appeared on the last page instead of "happily ever after". I have realized how much my love had put me into his mother's role and how I played it all along. I was this wonderful perfect person at first and to finish with, a "bitch". I never got a chance to be "me" in that relationship. I knew my love had been abused by his mother but he only disclosed to me (or others) psychological abuse and fondling, like pathological cleaning (not sure if it's the correct word). In November 2003, I have had a "gut" feeling that there was more to it and I started to suspect that his mother had done oral sex on him.
The last few months it has been clear that whatever I did to prove my good faith, my innocence and love, I got rejected again and again and every time it got more violent. I could recognize some symptoms of PTSD (like burst out of anger, dissociation...) but lately I feel like I might have missed out totally on something so terrible that my mind could not consider it. I am wondering if my love has been forced into full sex by his mother and that it was precisely that stuff that has been resurfacing in the last months.
I mean the power that mother had on him started when he was an infant, my love was her only child and the father was away from the house most of the time so it would have given her all the time she needed. It gives me the creep that this mother was like a spider setting up her net like this.
I would like to know if male survivors who have been in that situation have disclosed their abuse to their spouse or partners. I can understand the burden of shame that goes with it and the powerlessness to disclose such a rape especially because their is all the "loving" involved and may be the intensity of the physical reaction.
I love my man and I feel if I had known, or seen that possibility of such an abuse I would have reacted otherwise.
I told V a long time ago I registered here because I wanted to support him better and also I needed help to be there for him.

So, V, if you come here and read these lines, I want to tell you that I love you, I admire you and I want you no matter what happened in the past. You are perfect to me just the way you are. You are a wonderful beautiful man...et je t'aime.
Caroline
 
Caroline,
You know...I think it is common for the MS NOT to fully disclose everything to their partners. I am assuming that is due to more than one thing.
The first being they want to protect they one they love. Also, I think that their own vunerability is at stake.
I have things I have shared with my husband, but not in full blown detail...just for the above mentioned reasons.
I feel my dignity would be at risk partly.
I cant imagine it would be any different for any other human being.
Too, I know only very few details about my husbands SA.
If I knew everything, or just the little I know it wouldnt change anything. I would treat it the same.
It is so hard to not want to know EVERYTHING. Yet at the same time, not every person is going to respond to PUTTING IT ALL OUT THERE.
You known what I am saying.
I always have the feeling, that questioning my husband on this subject is like cutting him with a knife. I dont want him to re-live or have to recall detail for my own personal benefit.
I want to be a source of healing, not hurting.
It is all about perspective.
Sometimes we just have to step back and repect that this is THEIR ISSUE and we cant own it, no matter how much we would like to shoulder it for/with them.

I feel for you.
Regards....
 
Dear Bfd

Thank you for your message. I guess what I want to say is that I probably would have reacted differently if I had had an idea that the trauma was even greater than I thought. At the beginning of our relationship V has been wonderfully supportive but now I think that during that time I missed out on a lot of his pain. I started to notice it later on in the relationship but this silent pain was just the surface of a more intense trauma inside. I feel really guilty about being so blind. I don't expect the "details" of his abuse, I just want to understand all the screaming and the rage he expresses against me. I know how hard it is to share. My love has been there when I clearly needed to tell about details of my own abuse. He decided he wanted to be there for that and I am forever grateful because I would never have the strength to tell another soul the way I told him that night. I have had an experience today that brought me back to the sad reality that people don't know and don't even think possible a mother-son incest. I was told by a guy today (in a director of a foundation that works in the social field) that men can't be abused by women. That guy also said that he didn't believe the statistics about sexual abuse (1/3 of girls and 1/4 of guys have been abused). He said that people who disclose could have the "feeling that they were abused", adding that he can't believe 1/3 of his friends around him could have been abused because "I can't see it on them" ! :mad: :mad: :mad:
And earlier on I was talking to him about taboos and prejugs !
So back to my wonderful love. I am so sorry I was so blind and I wish I could take all his pain away. I trully admire him for the strength and determination he put into his healing. I am so proud of him and all of you guys here, especially for those of you of have been abused by evil women and mothers who came forward to heal.
My heart goes with you.
Caro
 
I see your point. I have things I feel so bad about also, but mine were more around the fact that I didnt realize how heavily SA weighed in our relationship. It took me awhile to figure out where things were stemming from.
You have a very lucky guy having someone like to lean on!

Take care
 
that men can't be abused by women.
Click to expand...
This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. I would tell him he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. BOYS can be abused by women.

I know a boy who was abused starting at the age of 9. It would start by the female going to the boys room in the middle of the night. As the child was in a deep sleep oral sex would be preform on him until he was fully sexualy arosed. Then the female was able to get on top of the child and ride him until she was sexully fullfillrd, The boy doesn't know if this was a nightmare or reality as he drifts back to sleep.

Does your friend not know what sexual abuse is.
Good luck with dealing with your boy friend.

Just be there to hug him, hold him, and help him release his pain. PM me if you have any guestions.
 
Hey !
My love is in therapy. He is doing studies in psychology so on an intellectual level he knows a lot about sexual abuse.
Muldoon thank you for the offer, I am going to pm you. Writing all of this down also helped me to see where I needed to do more work on myself. I am ready to go into the unknown and frightening territory of "sexual healing" so I have booked myself for an important appointment.
My love has been challenging me in ways that no one had done before. It is amazing, even in the break up he and my love for him still drag me forward !!!
Thanks to both of you for responding.
Caro
 
Hello, I am new to this discussion board in hopes that I can find some help in dealing with what happens to be the most important issue of my life right now.
I am just shy of 6 months away from marrying the man of my dreams. Everything in our relationship is going well except for his obsessions with porn and sex. These are issues I have been trying to deal with for about a year and a half now. I know that he was sexually abused in almost every way possible by his mother during his teenage years - this he has openly admitted to me and I have been trying to help him cope. He has all the symptoms I am seeing on this site - nightmares, extreme sexual obsessions, and anxiety resulting from his history. I have exhausted every emotion and every feeling that I have in me and I don't know where to turn now. I have forced him to find a counselor but everytime he finds one that he likes they end up rejecting him because of his insurance and the only ones that he can find are rather expensive. With us being a young couple who are getting married and having just bought our first home money doesn't come easy to us at this point.
I guess what I need from this group is a little guidance as to what I can say or do to help deal with his lying in regards to his sexual obsession. I am just about at the end of my rope when it comes to him which doesn't help me either because I think I have told him that so many times that he doesn't believe I will actually leave him now. Which to be honest with you it would be very difficult for me to actually go through with the actions of leaving him because I love him more then anything in the world. I just need someone to talk to!! Please leave me any advice you may have! I am begging everyone! Thank you so much!

Cheri
 
My mother abused me in subtle ways. When I first told my wife, she said, is that all?

No fun.

If someone suggests that the abuse needs to have been "worse" for the reactions now to be so strong, I highly resent that. Caetel, I think this is just what you're suggesting. I here you saying, "There must be something more for him to be like this." Don't be so sure.

Yes, it is a possibility. There may be memories of which his is conscious and unwilling to share, but pushing won't help and neither will speculation. Let him process on reveal at his own pace. IF he is being difficult in your relationship, set your boundaries and state your feelings without forcing him to reveal his. If that is too much for you to go through, then end the relationship. That radical a step may be necessary for him to see the effects of his behavior.

I've seen statistics (Don't remember where) that women abusers often commit covert abuse (as oppposed to overt). It is damaging, and to suppose that stronger emotions most mean more extremem abuse is to minimize the kind of pain the abuse I and others had inflicted on us.

I know that in perspective the abuse I suffered was not much, and for that reason I wondered for a long time whether I was worthy of coming to this site among brothers who have suffered more. They have never dismissed or minimized my abuse, and I am grateful.

After the first session with one of my therapists, I tortured myself over wondering what more there was, thinking that I needed to find more to warrant going to therapy. That was a painful journey to inflict upon myself, and my therapist acknowledged what I had gone through for what it was.

We found it more helpful to deal with what was there than to search for more, and that is my advice to you and V.
 
Hey ! L2R

Thank you for your message. I just wanted to precise that I am not talking about general abuse. Being a survivor and a student in psychology I know that the effect of abuse can be different depending on the survival strategies victims create. For one person, fondling abuse can be more devastating that strong physical abuse on someone else. I think this is true for male survivors as for female survivors. I agree about the covert abuse, the psychological twist V's mother used. In the end, V had to deal with the whole of the confusion and then ended up thinking he was evil, guilty and not worthy to be loved.
Like I said, what I suspect comes from a "gut" feeling and also based on specific behaviours.
The relationship ended anyway, there was just silence or violent angry outburst on the other side. I just had to protect myself.
 
I've been reading your posts for a long time and, although I know it must have been hard for the relationship to end, I think you tried everything you could to make it work. I hope V can eventually work things out however he needs to, and I hope you find a relationship that doesn't force you to protect yourself.
 
Cheri,

Look in the phone book for social service organizations that deal with sexual assault and abuse.

Jewish Family Services and the YWCA (THAT'S A "W") are just two organizations that in some places offer services based on a sliding scale or even free of charge. The first one does not require clients to be Jewish, and, depending I suppose on the location and profile, the second helps men as well as women. (YWCA does different things in different places, I think, so it doesn't hurt to call and ask.)

I think there must be others.
 
Cheri,

My suggestion would be to find a counselor for yourself.

It may sound harsh, but you can't force him to go to therapy. Therapy isn't like a medicine that will work once it gets into someone's system whether or not they want it there. I'm not saying that money isn't a real issue, I'm saying if he's not really interested in going to therapy, believe me, all the money in the world wouldn't change a thing.

A counselor can help you set boundaries in your relationship with your fiance, and deal with your own emotions about his sexual abuse and acting out behaviors.

It's easy for me to tell you what I think the boundaries should be in a relationship, what behaviors someone should stop once they're in a commmitted relationship-- but it's more important for you to figure out those answers for yourself.

Are the things your boyfriend is doing now acceptable to you? Will they be acceptable to you in six months or a year? Five years? When you have children? What if he never got any better than he did today-- is that a relationship you can commit to for life? What are you prepared to do to protect yourself from becoming more hurt and frustrated by your boyfriend's acting out? You don't have to answer me-- but I think it would be worth your trouble to honestly answer yourself.

Take care
SAR
 
I am a man who was abused by my Grandmother. She started when I was an infant opening up my diapers. By prenteding to give me her approval and love, she taught me how to have sex with things and with her. She would take my picture, share me with others, do all sorts of disgusting things to me. Later when I was able to say 'no' she got violent, threatened to kill me - send me to hell, told me God put me on earth for others to use and made me agree with her about that. I was the only boy born into a family of Women (my Grandfather was nowhere to be seen, never saw him till after she was dead). My Grandmother took all her anger at men out on an infant.

She was my Mother's Mother. And my Mother would just hand me to her over and over again. Even after I told my Mother she shared me with men, my Mother brought me back and one time even watched me. That women put more shame in me than will ever heal. She killed my person and my sole. She was a looser pedophile and she used me for her next orgasim.

The abuse went on for about 2-3 years. By the time I was 5 it was over. My Grandmother knew it had to stop so that I would forget, "your too big to do that anymore". I was not the only one she did it to. By the time I was born, she was a child molesting expert.

Yes, Women can abuse men. Whoever said they can't is an idiot who can't see above societal stereotypes. Take it from me, I live with it everday.

Peace,
John
 
Thank you Dion for sharing. I am deeply moved by your sorrow. Thank you for the guys who have come here to share. It shows not only that V is not alone, that none of you are. I am very grateful that this post also helps other men who have been abused by women to come forward. I hope one day this won't be a taboo anymore.
Also as a survivor having been abused from as young as 8 months old by my father, I want to tell you Dion that whatever horrible abuse my father did to me he NEVER destroyed my soul.
Your soul is still shining and your experience makes you different in a wonderful way. It takes a long time to see it but I am absolutely certain of that.
Love and blessings
Caroline
 
Hey !
I just thought bringing this post back up would be a good thing for the new members here.
I am sad to hear about mor men being abused by women and especially mothers.
I think as partners and allies we can contribute in breaking the taboos.
Men who have been abused by women are so hurt and so alone but they are so courageous too.
I hope breaking the silence will help them and others to heal.
Warmest regards
 
My earliest memory of my abuse was the age of 3. What happened before that I am not sure. Yes, my Mother sexually abuse me. But my father did as well. Plus there was terrible violence and verbal abuse that left me unable to decipher what was right even through my adult life.
My mother thought it was a "game" to lay naked on the bed and ask me to rub her back. The she wanted me to rub her lower and lower and I remember how she moaned when I was rubbing her buttocks. She took it further to between her legs and from that first memory of doing that I knew it was wrong. It kept happening until the courts took us away and put us in a children's home. My father made me do it all. He would come late at night and lay on top of me and tell me someday mine would be big like his. He wanted to "teach" me how to "do it". Mind you this memory is at 3. He did it all.
Then the state owned me via the court system and put us in the Children's Home. There from the age of 9 to 17 I was raped 28 times by different older boys. Many times some of these did it more than once but there were 28 differnt boys.
Women get all the help regarding rape. What is there for a man? Nothinig! No one did anything when I finally told at 17. Nothing happened! No help no counceling nothing. I just had to hide it and stuff it. I got out at 18 and met a woman in FLA who hugged me for the first time in my life. I thought the feeling must have been love? We got married and were together for 5 years. I caught her cheating 3 times before I left her and unfortunately my daughter. I ended up with the same kind of wife as my mother, promiscuous. Years later I met a man. We did fall in love. I loved him like no other. We were together 3 years when he came to me and said he was having feelings of wanting to be with other men. I let him go. That was 27 years ago. I have been with no one since. I don't trust. Yes men carry the burden so lonely because society doesn't want to look at what happens to us. We have to be strong and "buck up". That destroy's our spirit. That stops us from finding healing. I hope that in this site I can find my voice again and rage at all the injustice. I am a docile, empathic, and caring man who the world will never know as a result of what my parents began and the State allowed to happen without retribution. Men hurt!!! We just aren't allowed to talk about it.
 
Dear Ric
This is a place where you can talk about it and this is a place where women can also hear your pain and support you in your healing process.
Trust is a huge issue for survivors, especially incest survivors. As a survivor myself, it took me a long time to trust V. Gosh thinking about it I realize how much I tested him and pushed him away.
I think part of the issue is to get out of a cycle of victimization. In my case that cleared out a lot of dysfunctional so-called relationships or romances.
I often wondered why I have so many excellent friends (I have no problems with trust when it's about friendship). I guess I believe and want to believe in people. I have met wonderful people as I grew up and in the last few years.
I guess all I want to say is that there are wonderful women and men who are trustworthy and who would be there for their man. I hope you will meet such a person some day. You deserve to be happy and I wish all your dreams will come true.
With loving regards
Caro
 
Shamelessly 'borrowed' from the excellent Kali Munro website.

Male Sexual Abuse Victims
of Female Perpetrators:
Society's Betrayal of Boys
by Kali Munro, M.Ed., Psychotherapist, 2002.


The reality that boys are sexually abused by women is not widely accepted. Some people view it as an impossible act - that a male cant be sexually assaulted by a female - and others view it as sexually titillating. The existence of female perpetrators and male victims confronts many of our most firmly held beliefs about women, men, sexuality, power, and sexual assault. It challenges our very notions about what sex is.

The view that males always want and benefit from sex with females

On the whole, discussions and writings about sex refer exclusively to heterosexuality, which is considered normal and natural. The commonly held view of heterosexuality is that men are always wanting and seeking sex with females; males are dominant, while females are submissive. Men initiate sexual encounters, and women accept or decline male invitations for sex.

If a female initiates sex with a boy he is considered lucky

If a female initiates sexual contact with a male, this is viewed as a rare and exciting opportunity that no man should let pass by; he should be grateful.

Given these commonly held beliefs, many people see nothing wrong with a woman pursuing a boy sexually. In fact, in some circles it is considered a good way to introduce boys to heterosexuality. Some fathers take their young sons to prostitutes with the mistaken belief that it is good for them. A number of movies, stories, jokes, and fantasies portray older women sexually seducing young boys in positive terms.

Where does this leave men who were sexually abused by women?

Sadly, many men who were sexually abused by women are locked in silence, shame, and self-loathing. Society tells them that not only was their experience not abuse, but that they should have enjoyed it, and if they didnt there must be something terribly wrong with them.

Even when their experiences are recognized as abuse, they may be viewed as having been weak or not man enough because they were unable to stop it, defend themselves, or put it behind them.

The myth that men cant be victimized particularly by women is firmly entrenched in many cultures. Many men who dare acknowledge that they were sexually abused by women are cruelly laughed at and humiliated. Most do not dare say a word about it for fear of feeling any more ashamed than they already feel.

Many men who were sexually abused by women feel deeply ashamed of themselves, their sexuality, and their gender. Sadly and mistakenly, they believe that there must be something profoundly wrong with them that they were abused in this way. Some men defend against feeling this way by being in a constant state of anger or rage - one of the few emotions that are socially acceptable for men. Many male survivors cope with the abuse by drinking, using drugs, living recklessly, avoiding intimate relationships, numbing their feelings, dissociating, and becoming depressed, anxious or angry.

David Lisak, Ph.D. (1994), in his research with 26 adult male sexual abuse survivors (many of whom were abused by women), found that the effects of the abuse on the men could be grouped according to the following themes:

* Anger
* Betrayal
* Fear
* Helplessness
* Homosexuality Issues (mostly for men abused by men)
* Isolation and Alienation
* Legitimacy (being able to take the abuse and its effects seriously)
* Loss
* Masculinity Issues (feeling okay about being male)
* Negative Childhood Peer Relations
* Negative Schemas about People (difficulty trusting others)
* Negative Schemas about the Self (feeling bad about one's self)
* Problems with Sexuality
* Self Blame/Guilt
* Shame/Humiliation

For a more detailed description of these themes and to read some moving quotes from the interviews with the men, you can read this article in pdf format here.

Mother-son sexual abuse

Men who were sexually abused by their mothers, or other women in parenting roles (such as aunts, grandmothers, sisters, etc.) often feel the most inner turmoil, shame, guilt, and self-loathing. They were betrayed by the very women who were supposed to take care of them and to protect them. It is no wonder that men who were sexually abused by their mothers feel a profound sadness and emptiness.

Abuse by a mother is often the last abuse to be dealt with when there have been other perpetrators in the survivors history. Many men and women have said that the abuse by their mothers was the most shameful and damaging form of childhood victimization that they experienced. (Elliott, 1993, pg. 21)

Men who were sexually abused by their mothers often have a very difficult time disclosing the abuse because they feel a loyalty - a traumatic bond - with their mothers. It may be a conflicted bond, but a bond still the same. This bond may stop them from disclosing what they believe would be a betrayal of their mothers trust and confidence.

The son may be put in the role of husband

In my clinical experience, a common dynamic in mother-son sexual abuse is that of the son being placed in the role of husband. In this context, a son is likely to feel aligned with his mother and protective of her, wanting to please her and take care of her. He may even be put in the position of trying to protect her from her abusive husband, which will invariably leave him feeling inadequate and ineffectual. As a child, his mothers abuse may seem less threatening than his fathers, but her abuse is no less serious just the same. In time, the effects of her abuse will take its toll on him.

With this reversal in roles, abused boys sometimes grow up having problems being taken care of, preferring to place themselves in care-taking positions. They may become very submissive, catering to the needs of their sexual partners. On the other hand, they may be very angry at women, viewing all women in the same way - as being emotionally manipulative, controlling, abusive and untrustworthy - and take revenge on them.

Female perpetrators can be just as violent as men

It is common for mothers who sexually abuse their sons to rely on emotional manipulation and control, for example, by telling the child that by doing a certain act it will make mommy or aunty feel good; pretending that the abuse is really a form of bathing and cleaning; pretending that it is meant to make the child feel good; pretending that it is cuddling. It is also the case that mothers and female perpetrators are violent. This is particularly evident in ritual abuse where women, along with men, are sadistic toward children (and adults).

Female perpetrators can be just as violent as men. We know this, yet the stereotype and reality of the emotionally clingy female perpetrator is given more attention because it confirms our beliefs that women are weak, emotionally dependent, and non-violent. I have heard horrendous stories from men (and women) who were beaten and tortured by their mothers and other women in their lives, and not only in the context of ritual abuse.

Final thoughts

Men who were sexually abused by women rarely see their reality reflected in articles, books, services, and web sites that are created for sexual abuse survivors. The fact that it is not widely acknowledged or accepted that boys as well as girls are sexually abused, and women as well as men sexually abuse children is damaging to men who were abused by women.

Many male survivors live in isolation, fear, shame, anger, and silence precisely because they know the taboos in our culture about talking about this form of abuse. It neednt be this way. We can acknowledge that boys are abused and women abuse children without diminishing the reality of male perpetrated violence and female victimization. Understanding this form of abuse contributes to our knowledge about abuse in all its forms - something that we will all benefit from.
Kali Munro, 2002.


References:

Elliott, Michele (Ed.). (1993). Female Sexual Abuse of Children. New York: Guilford Press.

Lisak, D. (1994). The psychological impact of sexual abuse: Content analysis of interviews with male survivors. Journal of Traumatic Stress, 7, 525-548. Available in pdf format here.

Other Readings:

There is an excellent list of references about female perpetrators and the sexual abuse of males by females at Jim Hoppers site Sexual Abuse of Males: Prevalence, Possible Lasting Effects, and Resources

If you found this article helpful you might want to read more of my articles. Other articles for survivors of incest and sexual abuse include:

* Male-to-Male Child Sexual Abuse in the Context of Homophobia

* The Treatment Needs of Sexually Abused Men

* Mother-Daughter Sexual Abuse: A Painful Topic

* Sexual Abuse Survivors and Sex - becoming more comfortable with sex

* Trusting Your Memories of Sexual Abuse

* Incest and Child Sexual Abuse: Definitions, Perpetrators, Victims, and Effects

* DID, MPD, or Multiplicity: Responding to Parts Inside - With a Focus on the Kids

* And by another author, C. Rainfield, about ritual abuse:

Programming: Understanding, Recognizing, & Nullifying It


Kali Munro, M.Ed., Psychotherapist 416 929-4612
[email protected] www.KaliMunro.com
Click to expand...
 
Boy, Lloydy,
that just about says it all

but maybe I can add a personal note

I was abused by my mother from about 18 months to 4 or 5. It involved fondling, full body contact, and perhaps penetration.

What I have found from my own recovery is that memory, for me, at this age is held mostly physically in the form of skin discomfort, that I call "shame skin" which at times of high anxiety can be very intense. There is hyper sensitivity in the mid section, so much so that I can not tolerate being touched there. My body holds the memory. I had no clear memory of the abuse for 50 years and lived with the symptoms in complete confusion.

I learned that the early infant developmental stages of realizing that the world is separate from me, and then that I am separate from my mother did not happen in a normal fashion causing my sense of self to be a kind of emptiness, and not clearly seeing the rest of the world as distinct from me.

Emotionally, I was devastated by the lack of early bonding but also felt that I would face the abyss of nothingness if I fully rejected her - I felt that an infant that loses his mother(his world) will surely die. As I grew up, I thought I was a freak of nature because I was the only child I knew who did not love his mother.

The probable reason she abused me was that she was a delusional alcoholic who had been raped by her father. She chose me as her "special child" on whom she acted out, and with whom she continued throughout the rest of my childhood to emotionally abuse with enmeshment.

Yes, boys can be abused by women, at any age and for a variety of reasons.
 
Thad
I was talking to another therapist about psychosomatic illness and 'weird body stuff' just last week, she has a client with many illness' that the doctor can't find or do anything about.

I related to her my recurring painful prostate that regularly wakes me up in the night. I get this pain in the rear that won't go away and keeps me awake for hours, but is completely gone in the morning.
At my age, 51, and with my father and older brother having prostate problems I go to my doctor, who finds nothing wrong at all.

I'm convinced it's my body / mind re-living some of my abuse.
It's way too real and physical to be just in my mind as well, but I believe my mind is the cause of this very real pain.

Dave
 
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