Medications

[SamV]

I have been on a series of medications to try and bring my chemicals into balance. Recently I was prescribed a new medication and it is throwing me around the room! How about a discussion on the effectiveness, dosage and side effects of medications? If there is a list out there, please link to it in your comments. Thanks, Sam.

 

[SamV]

I have been on Prozac, Paxil and Xanax. I have also been prescribed lisinopril and now minipress(prazosin). These were almost always on the lowest dose and most did not make it very long due to side effects or simply due to fear of being on medication or fear of addiction/dependence.

Prozac/6 months/minimum dosage
I was on Prozac for several months. While the effects left me less sensitive, it also left me unaware of potential emotional conflicts. The floor, so to speak, of empathy and compassion was lessened to the point where I became black and white, very literal, and that was detrimental to the relationships I was in. I finally got off Prozac, it is a relatively easy med to stop taking(always under medical supervision).

Paxil/9 months/minimum dosage
For me, this stuff works! It severely restricts the arousal of sexual tendencies, or at least it did for me. The ability to have interactions with any gender in any situation without having thoughts about how I measure up sexually or was I attractive or how someone else would be in sexually is a tremendous relief.
However, it really works, which means that any sexual encounter was off the table, period.
I took it long enough to learn what interactions and exchanges inside and out were supposed to feel like, until I could reasonably mimic these without them. It was life changing. Comparing myself on a sexual basis as a survivor and knowing I would not measure up, or using that to find my place in a group is demeaning and destructive. I now have pleasant, supportive and encouraging conversations with all genders that brings me into a thriving position in life.
Getting off this was incredibly difficult! Make sure you consult a medical professional, they can prescribe lower dosages and medication that will lessen the impact of the withdrawal.

Lisinopril 2 years/ 20 mgs /once per day
Blood pressure medicine, easy on/easy off.

Metropolol 1 month/20 mgs per day
I have SVT supra ventricular tachycardia, I had to take this for a month when my symptoms became so bad I could not breathe without my heart pounding, racing and beating so fast it would not carry blood through my system. I was suffocating with my lungs full of air.

I thought they were panic attacks... WRONG! I now know what a panic attack feels like.

This medicine woks almost immediately and when I got off it for three days to have an ablation, it was torture.

Minipress/Prozasin 2 days/1 mg three times per day
This one I have some questions about and would love some feedback.

I have only taken two doses but already it has lower my blood pressure significantly. The problem is I feel like I have a terrible head cold. I am extremely sensitive to perfumes and soaps and have extreme sinus congestion. The nasal passages seem to be inflamed. The first dose the side effects lasted about two hours, I took it at night. The second dose I took at 8:30 AM and it has been hanging wit me and includes dizziness and heart palpitations. Also my blood pressure is back to where it was high 130's over mid 80's.
UPDATE: I have taken myself off this medicine as it has created terrific sinus pressure. Days later and I am still suffering from ringing ears, sinus pressure around my eyes and nose and difficulty forming thoughts and words! The disclaimer on the prescription notes that this may happen "irregularly" or infrequently". I guess I am one
of the fortunate few.

Xanax 2 years/1 per day or as needed.
I have used this on as as needed basis for public anxiety and social speaking engagements. It is also really good at putting me to sleep at night, although it is not a sleeping pill per se. When I have sufficient sleep, it works to slow down the anxiety, creating a calming pause in my thinking and speaking. I can be more empathetic toward those I am interacting with without over investing nor isolative. There is no build up needed, it works almost immediately and I haven't felt a craving for it either although it is habit forming so be careful.

Thanks and more thanks, Sam

 

[Chris4TheMill]

Does the discussion just have to be about medications or can it also include supplements?

 

[Tom E.]

My dosage of Bupropion was lowered because it seemed to trigger uncontrollable rage attacks. I take Buspirone 30mg too as well as Olanzapine 2.5 mg at night which helps me sleep.

 

[Ceremony]

Medications... TomE. I'm curious about that rage effect? I took Welbutrin XL 300mg for maybe 8 or more years? I found I had to have name brand or it wouldn't work. Bupropion, the generic wouldn't level me out. I'm just now aware of knowing I had some extreme rage episodes while on it, but didn't exactly think it was far off how I was without it? I'm not sure? I had a lot of struggle to keep on the name brand. Three insurance changes, along with clinic changes created mistakes by the doctor prescribing. I would assert myself, but they still made constant errors, or maybe the pharmacy was complicit? I got very upset with the system that kept failing to be reliable and it cost extra money, and a lot of deep frustrations. I'm tired of the so called health services, I think they often don't care. That's not entirely my experience, but I sometimes get moody about it.

It's difficult to separate anger issues in my life, I neglected the trauma of my life until last summer.

Then, I'm not sure about how I go about taking medications, and if anyone has found they're also neglecting taking theirs, please express some of why? I often stop taking mine now, there the ones for my high blood pressure. I had life threatening blood pressure and I think stress and other have some role in how I shut down caring about myself.

The medication Spironolactone is horrid. It's side effects aren't huge, but fear of them is. It's also the only medication in what seems like a decade of doctors failing to help me with my blood pressure, that Spironolactone fixed the problem. Mine is now caused by my adrenal glands, which are over producing aldosterone. Why, who knows? I've refused to study it, yet that's counter to my usual.

I hope this is a useful thread.

Chris, I've found supplement discussion hasn't been very useful to me, but that's just me, please don't be offended.

 

[SamV]

Does the discussion just have to be about medications or can it also include supplements?

I do not see the harm in supplements Chris, I would like the discussion to be centered around how a particular medicine or supplement has improved or at least affected a symptom of "healthy living" in survivors, thank you for offering.

Sam

 

[SamV]

I was on Welbutrin Xl for a matter of days too, thanks for the reminder Tom E. and Ceremony. It exacerbated the symptoms of the SVT, so it "hit the bin".

Spironolactone has some crazy side effects, but my BP is steady around 140s/90s, measured in the morning and before I go to bed. I will talk to my cardiologist about it, thank you for that offering and your experiences Ceremony.

Sam

 

[SamV]

Ceremony, you stated you had not studied aldosterone, here is a link to some information that may be helpful, including natural ACE inhibitors. Aldosterone is tricky, difficult to manage. I love licorice, so that may have to go.., sad. https://selfhacked.com/blog/need-know-aldosterone-health-effects/#Natural_ACE_Inhibitors_Function_to_DecreaseAldosterone

I will be talking to my cardiologist about aldosterone too as I have many of those symptoms, thank you and much healing my brother. Sam

 

[Ceremony]

Ceremony, you stated you had not studied aldosterone, here is a link to some information that may be helpful, including natural ACE inhibitors. Aldosterone is tricky, difficult to manage. I love licorice, so that may have to go.., sad. https://selfhacked.com/blog/need-know-aldosterone-health-effects/#Natural_ACE_Inhibitors_Function_to_DecreaseAldosterone

I will be talking to my cardiologist about aldosterone too as I have many of those symptoms, thank you and much healing my brother. Sam

Hi SamV, I guess I mentioned few side effects, but, yeah, there can be many with Spirnolactone. One is gynecomastia, and I'm too over weight to know, but yeah...

The others I've not really looked at, but peeing too much hits me and I get very angry I awake so many times at night, especially with my insomnia problem.

NSAIDs are supposed to be very destructive with Spironolactone and with my inflammatory issues, the pain, and I found only NSAIDs made a dent in the pain. I would take 4-6 Naproxen (Aleve) every 10 hours to find pain relief. That went on for years while I was off Spironolactone, and now in that link it makes it known that NSAIDs increase Aldosterone... Wtf, it's like I did it to myself, unaware?! Maybe?!

Stress has to be the #1 issue for me, adrenaline, and whatever dumps to calm it down. It seems research is mixed about Cortisol, but I'm going out on a limb that for me, my body is going for too much Cortisol? I'm not sure the more I look at research? It could be epinephrine or any number of counters to Adrenaline from stress. In any case, it will point to my exacerbated inflammation.

 

[Chris4TheMill]

Sam,

Thanks for being open. Full disclosure, I used to be on Zoloft years ago, for 8 years total. Didn't like the side effects and it just zoned me out most of the time. So I just stopped.

However, I can still get out of control anxiety at times. Also have a general inability to relax, OCD, and often a resulting adrenal fatigue and other issues that got worse due to a highly stressful job (thankfully I am no longer there). To cope with the job and the after-effects of a major surgery, family illness, etc. I started searching for ways to help fix my brain chemistry and not just manage symptoms. I could go into a lot more detail, but below is brief summary of some things I tried that have helped immensely, just within the past 2 months:

1. 100mg phosphatidylserine & 400mg Passion Flower 2X a day although I forget sometimes and only take 1X a day - it reduces cortisol levels (stress hormone)

2. Thorne Basic B Complex (all the B vitamins are methylated to be in the most bioavailable form) - 2X a day, once in morning and once in afternoon. Must take with food. Helps your body to create it's own neurotransmitters, like serotonin

3. I take an additional 50mg of methylated B6 called P5P, 2x a day, to further lower anxiety

4. 100mg 5HTP (precursor to serotonin) 2X a day to create more serotonin in the brain and to lower excess dopamine

5. 1000mg Vitamin C per day (Quali-C form)

6. 300mg Magnesium Citrate powder in a little water before bed (test a little less to determine bowel tolerance, as can create loose stools)

7. 3mg Melatonin (6-hour time release) before bed - it reportedly reduces norepinephrine levels (stress hormone). I wake up much more relaxed and not groggy at all.

8. Cut down drastically on my sugar intake (sugar raises dopamine levels)


The results so far have been beyond what I would have hoped for. Still have some issues at times, but I think I am on the right track and maybe it will just take some more time...

Note that if brain neurochemicals are unbalanced with dopamine too high and serotonin too low, that will lead to a problems with impulse control. OCD, and addictive behavior. In other words, my life until around 2009, LOL.

Popular antidepressants like Wellbutrin and Zoloft work by increasing dopamine as do drugs commonly prescribed for ADHD like Ritalin.

Also if your immune system is over active it keeps norepinephrine high as a defense mechanism.

My theory, based on my symptoms - can't prove it and doctors can't check - is that I am too low on serotonin, and too high on dopamine and norepinephrine. So the steps I am taking are primarily to balance those out. So far I have been seeing great results with the anxiety and inability to relax. OCD still an issue but not as bad, I see some hope for the first time.

 

[SamV]

Thank you so much Chris4TheMil. It is overwhelming to think about the amount of research and personal experimentation you must have done to bring yourself to the level of understanding and stability you are sharing here.

I think I am on the right track and maybe it will just take some more time...

I believe this is definitely what I am looking for as I have evicted the abuse thinking for the most part but still feel like I am not optimal in my chemical balances. Being 49 years old this year isn't going to help, but I am not sure taking supplements is something I can do long term.

I guess that is the issue. I know exercising creates "good chemicals" and supports positive thinking through detail oriented workouts and goals achieved. I just cannot exercise due to the crashes SVT creates in my cardiovascular system. So too, taking several pills without being prescribed from a "medical professional" leaves me feeling overwhelmed and unable to be consistent. I have taken some supplements for a few weeks or a month. I find my own attitude gets in the way of sustainability. Tumeric and multivitamins are some of those, glucosamine chondroitin and something for memory, but I forgot what it was... Mostly I was not aware nor appreciative of the effects, nor could I discern when they left my system, the reasons I took the supplements where still affecting me. I think personally I would try to use something other than prescription meds as long as I see some results within a short period of time, say three months. My issue is that what I have tried through therapy and medical prescriptions have run their course or the side effects were too brutal to continue.

Too, verifiable sources of herbal supplements can be difficult to find. There are also reports of supplements being nothing more than grass. When prescribed, medicine has to follow a trail of authorizations that are federally monitored. Perfect? No. It just seems to be more reliable.

I am afraid I am going to put you on the spot here my brother. Could you speak to that? If you are taking the supplements, you must have found reliable contacts and sustainable effects over your time with these supplements. Could you please be specific about the supplements you are using and why you are choosing to remain with these? Supplement and dosage changes, effects on your attitude, feelings, interactions and internal processes? How have they affected you so that you are still using these particular supplements?

Is it my own thinking that generates "toxic" chemicals or is it that my glands and organs are unable to produce beneficial chemicals? I hope to get closer to resolving this process with this discussion, thank you all for your participation.

 

[Chris4TheMill]

Hi Sam,

Yes, I would be happy to go into some more details if that could be helpful. You have asked for a lot of info though about my entire process, so I will spend some time to make it succinct enough to be at least readable (i.e. less boring) and maybe even dole it out in smaller doses over a few posts....

In any case, it will have to wait as I am going out soon and will be gone all day. I will start working on it tomorrow. In the meantime, hopefully more folks will chime in with their stories.

P.S. I am not sure what you mean by being 49 is not going to help...unless you are referring to specific health conditions? I assure you, at 54 years old and with some of my own health conditions, I know well how challenging life can get as we get older...

Cheers for now,

Chris

 

[SamV]

I look forward to your further discussion Chris, thank you! Sam

 

[Chris4TheMill]

I am going to share some tips and wisdom gathered over the years about using supplements, for anyone interested.
To make it easier to digest, I will do it in sections. I will also start with a summary bullet point and then expand on it below.

Top Guideline #1 For Choosing The Right Supplements:

1) Not all supplement brands are created equal – some brands are much better than others. Most of the time, you do get what you pay for..


Expanded version:

1) In the supplement world, there are brands that are highly regarded for their purity, quality, general effectiveness, and the scientific research that went into creating them. Brands like Thorne, Pure Encapsulations, Integrative Theraputics, Life Extension, Invite Health, New Chapter, Douglas Labs, and a few others are considered top of the line. They also tend to be more expensive, but actually not for every formula. Sometimes they are the better deal given the alternatives.

Other brands are considered good and reliable and most have been around a long time, like Jarrow, Solgar, Twinlab, Solaray, Nature’s Way, Rainbow Light, Garden of Life, Oregon’s Wild Harvest, Nordic Naturals, Terry Naturally, Source Naturals, Olympian Labs, Now.

Then, there are the many low-end brands like Centrum, Puritan’s Pride, or any drugstore chain store brand (CVS, Rite Aid, etc.).
Most brands will use some fillers in the capsule or tablet, but the higher-end ones will usually use less fillers. Too many fillers can sometimes inhibit absorption, and some (like red dye #41, gluten, soy) can be something you might be allergic to. Check the labels if you are allergic to anything.

One way to tell if you are getting what you pay for is to look for the “GMP” label on the bottle. That means the product was produced with Good Manufacturing Practices. In short, that means that what it says is in the capsule is going to be in the capsule. If it does not say GMP anywhere, then, yes, you are taking a chance that you might not be getting what you think you are getting.

Next time: How to choose from among the low, middle or high end brands, and why rotating brands is a good thing to do….!

 

[Ceremony]

I take a multi-vitamin, and have used protein supplements when I was 18, I recall using some powders too, but over time, I'm cynical.

USDA Supplement - 411

Government averse people, full of conspiracy cynicism can reject government hired scientists as they wish. I note that a scientist in this profession, hired by the USDA, might be less inclined to industry bias, than one on board the company making claims for their produce and products.

USDA nutrition page of links

I can work in looking up WebMD's medications descriptions when I'm feeling good about myself. I have issues with my desire to help myself, and if time allows, that should change.

 

[SayItRight]

.

 

[Chris4TheMill]

SayItRight,

So glad that you are connecting with the discussion. Big thanks to Sam for starting the topic and for letting me chime in.

You said a lot, and maybe we can move a more detailed discussion to PM since there is more to discuss about the things you mentioned. I'll just briefly address a few things for now.

Chris, curious about your experience with food as "first" supplement.

Yes, huge topic. In short, I struggled with out of control eating for many years until I finally began to get it under control. The worst for me was sugar and carbs - the whole roller-coaster cycle of highs and lows is hard to break. But I kept trying, kept trying....once that broke, the rest was easier to address. Since then, I have tweaked my diet often, and still do, to bring more calm and more energy.

My experience with all of this: I was researching inflammation, in hopes reducing inflammation...

Yes, inflammation is another big topic I have been paying a lot more attention to lately. I could probably learn from you on this. I was gluten-free and dairy free for over a decade. But still ate a lot of sugar. Lately I went back on gluten and dairy (mostly grass-fed), then cut back on the wheat when I read that it is bad for Hashimoto's (which I have).

I next began incorporating foods (natural and organic when I could) that were widely held to assist with regulating the thyroid/andrenal/stress cycle....

Do you have any insights into getting rid of Hashimoto's? It is autoimmune. Just started to read about it, but everyone has a different opinion on whether or not it can be reversed, and if so, how.

Also, love fermented foods and also those probiotic drinks like Kevita and Synergy. Eat organic as much as possible, but I'm not as strict as I used to be because it was causing too much stress. I am also big on good quality collagen powder, for connective tissue, bones, and extra amino acids. I feel the difference - when I take some regularly, my knees and back don't ache. If I start to be lax, pain creeps back. Then I take some and in 2 days, poof, backache and knee pain is gone.

As for Food-based supplements - have heard many different opinions on them. They are cultured with different mediums and it is near impossible to get a 100% food-based supplement because the amounts of nutrients are so low. I was pulling my hair out trying to find a good one. Instead I try to use the best bio-available supplements, like methylated B vitamins.

I should add: I believe strongly in personalization over one-size-fits-all prescription, as well as self monitoring and tweaking of findings and approaches. I am disgusted at how much real food costs as opposed to junk or even simply nutrient poorer food.

Couldn't agree more, amigo. Also I have a very high opinion of Marks' Daily Apple and Chris Kresser. I dom't spend a lot of time on their sites, but my diet is mostly paleo, just not strict about it because with Hashimoto's, you need simple carbs.

Also, yes, I was going to mention at some point in my sections about how diet is important too, and that supplements alone will not be a magic bullet. But I was taking it slow. Also I do stairs as exercise too, as I have a spinal condition and it is hard to find an exercise routine that I can safely do. And we walk a lot here, I am in a big city and do not have a car.

Feel free to send a PM. Will write more as soon as I can.

 

[SamV]

Thank you for being specific Chris, it is such a jungle out there of brands! The GMP badge will be my new friend!

There are a lot of words I just don't recognize up there on your Friday 11pm post, and I have been told not to eat anything I could not pronounce. It was in reference to the preservatives found in food, and with your statement about finding supplements in our food first, I am curious to know which foods are poisoning me and which are helping me. Since our symptoms can include similar items, is there a supplement you would recommend first to begin this regiment? Something we can feel in a matter of weeks that benefits our lives? I assume journaling can be a powerful tool to remind us of what we struggle with and of our progress, have you found it to be helpful or have you heard of it being helpful with others?

I am not a fan of vegetables, but I know they are have to be included in the "meal partition". I am a Wally World shopper, getting a real fruit and vegetable I imagine is going to be more difficult than I am probably aware.

We on this site are reaching out to change our attitudes! We are standing up to outdated and limiting lessons burned into us and are overturning these! Our eating habits are a product of this twisted training. I want to be free of the harm and neglect I have been forced to compromise with all of these many years. I want to be healthy, no, not an Olympian or some American Ninja contestant, I just want to find a way to throw a bowling ball without dropping my shoulder and maybe wash the car without stopping to catch my breath. I believe that my diet is connected to a coping cycle that has locked me in a roller coaster, up for healthy eating and plunges for jelly filled donuts and bags of family sized chips.(Notice I didn't put any food items in healthy eating? Yeah, it's gonna take awhile to get accustomed to that.., sigh)

I look forward to the additional information Chris and again, thank you for sharing. I just don't know enough about this to even put my foot forward.

 

[CelloL]

Back in late 1997, I was put on Paxil. I don't remember the dosage. It calmed my life down enough for me to meet someone at a New Years Eve party, get to know her, spend lots of time with her ("nondating"), and then we married the following November. I think Paxil made this possible for me. However, it caused a lot of weight gain - going from 160lbs at 6'1" to 200 lbs in about a year. Some people assumed my wife had something to do with the weight gain. Taking a double dose for my wedding helped me get through it. Unfortunately, Paxil kills the s/x life so I'd skip doses after we married when needed.

Later, different doctor and I was put on Lexapro. It was also suggested I go on a beta blocker. The meds stopped when I lost my job and my health insurance in 2005. More recently Obamacare enabled me to see a doctor again and I've only been taking a beta blocker when I feel I need it. That helps my heart palpitations (SVT and ventricular premature complex).

I am prone to bleeding so I take a good multi vitamin to get enough vitamin K. Otherwise I'm slow to clot and have had lots of nose bleeds. When I can afford it I've used the Shaklee brands because it is supposed to be made from real food and not synthetic.

For my allergies I take generic Claritin or generic Zyrtec. I can't have decongestants like Pseudoepidrine (Pseudofed or Actifed), which made my heart rate go as high as 221.

I avoid caffeine, which makes my heart race. I'm not supposed to have chocolate, either, but I let myself have some. Too much chocolate and I'm very jumpy. With dental work on Monday I reminded the dentist that I can't have a stimulant to speed the pain killer through my system.

I love my vegetables and especially salads, but no raw nightshade family (like tomatoes) that cause me migraines. I enjoy having a garden in the summers. Certain other foods also cause me problems so I have to be careful. Oats make me incredibly miserable. Some other grains cause problems depending on how they are processed.

I don't know if this helps any.

 

[Chris4TheMill]

CelloL,

Just some quick thoughts....

Dark Chocolate - Love it. Can't eat it much. Makes me sick. Not sure why, it just is (sigh)

Coffee - love it, can't drink it except a little bit once in a while. Makes me too jumpy; my nervous system is sensitive.

Oats - Love 'em, can't eat 'em. I always feel sick afterwards. Fun times .

Vegetables & Salads - love my big salads. Try to eat one every day. I put all kinds of great stuff in there so it is more like a meal.

Thanks for sharing....Chris

Will be back later....