Masculine identity

Masculine identity
Did the abuse affect your idea of yourself as masculine. If so, how? Have you found ways to reclaim it?

This week was my 5th anniversary with my trainer, my bodybuilding coach. What does that have to do with sexual abuse? For me, everything.

When I was assaulted in the playground in front of everyone my masculine identity was stolen. I was a fraudulent boy, incapable of fulfilling even the basic function of defending myself. My cherished role as my twin sisters protector was a fraud. I was a fraud. My boyhood wasn’t even a joke, it was completely erased. I was nothing. All I wanted was to be like the other boys. I wanted to have big muscles. But that desire revealed my audacious belief that lowely me, non-boy me could get stronger. How dare I!

I am seeing a fuller picture of what my masculine ideal is. Physical strength is involved, but not as an offense. Peeling back through the layers I am seeing clearer what I have yearned for. I was honored to provide my sister was a sense of safety, it was duty I was proud my mother saw fit to bestow me. I am understanding how much kindness and compassion are key elements to my manhood...and muscle, cause hell, I will never let that ambition be shamed again.
 
I don't like what words do to these concepts to the extent I can't answer. No matter how I try to phrase it, I just come up with no I don't mean that.
 
Yes it did effect my idea of myself as masculine and it was in more recent years that I partook in a father and son gathering with my son's and I conversation arose about masculinity , at this gathering was men from multiple cultures and backgrounds including a man raised in an African tribe his take on masculinity was the one that took me by the most surprise as it was so different from the way I was raised , he said to be masculine is to show love to others even yourself at the most difficult of times.

I try hard to move away from the concept I was raised upon , and towards the men can be loving , caring and feeling beings
As well as physically strong if they want to be but that's not a neccasity to being a masculine man for me any longer

Peace
HL
 
I'm trying to accept myself as I am, somewhere in there between masculine with some feminine mixed in there at times. I don't want to be passive in sex anymore (the bottom). I cuddle with my spouse (male) & kiss & fool around a little bit. I just haven't wanted to be penetrated for a few years now. I've changed in that respect.
 
@MACH123
As boys we are in it from birth. Yet it seems vaporous or other. Why doesn’t just our existence define it?

Maybe it does for some. But for others a challenge blows it into life long questioning.


@Healing light
I meant no offense when I said physical strength was key for me. What I meant was I was ashamed of my aspirations. Because of the abuse and the status it stained me with, I couldn’t see myself as capable let alone beiy. My statement is more of a personal vow then a universal prerequisite.


Wow, I am think about the wisdom in your African friends upbringing. To nurture the strength to love is a remarkable approach to building inner peace. To hold that type of bravery and perseverance as an ideal is an idea worth applying.

I think I am so attracted to it because it’s similar to the calm it took to stand in protection of my sister.


@Tom E.
I am so much of a mix. In high school my art friends had a song. They sang it not in mockery, but praise.


Bri Bri’s not a boy
Or a girl
Bri Bri’s
just Bri


I liked it and hated it. It was cool to have been praised for reaching this higher plane. But it was humiliating to hear “not a boy” out loud. I was a fucking boy damn it.
 
Why doesn’t just our existence define it?
It's long been noted that, while being feminine just "is" for women, masculinity is something that we men have to achieve, and something that can be taken from us at any time.

In the process of detaching ourselves from our mothers, as boys we learn that the masculine is just something that is not feminine. Therefore, if we act feminine, we are no longer masculine. This is, of course, a child's fallacy, but it's led to generations of misogyny and homophobia, not to mention bullying, discrimination, and everything that goes along with that.

If as boys we have misogynist and/or homophobic role models - or no male role models at all - that's what we're going to learn and the way we're going to act. It's up to us to be appropriate mentors who can teach boys that men are men and no one can away our masculinity in reality.
 
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Did the abuse affect your idea of yourself as masculine. If so, how? Have you found ways to reclaim it?

I don't see myself as masculine; never have. It's gotten better, but the struggle is still there. In the company of other men, I sort of see myself as the lesser among them. It's not just about the abuse; but about all the messages I received growing up. I consider my brother very masculine, and he's the one who raped me. I wish I could be more masculine, but it seems like that's just not my nature. I've had one therapist who challenged me on this, saying that I'm not effeminate at all, but I find that confusing. I see myself in a different way than she sees me, and the two images are quite different. I'm not muscular, not mechanically inclined, not athletic. I didn't even stay in Boy Scouts. I don't even know what masculine is, just that I'm not it. When I was talking about this with another therapist, and about how weak I am, she said I could do push ups. She didn't get it. That's the whole point. I'm not the kind of guy to do push-ups. That's what men do, and I'm not a full man.
 
Did the abuse affect your idea of yourself as masculine. If so, how? Have you found ways to reclaim it?

I don't see myself as masculine; never have. It's gotten better, but the struggle is still there. In the company of other men, I sort of see myself as the lesser among them. It's not just about the abuse; but about all the messages I received growing up. I consider my brother very masculine, and he's the one who raped me. I wish I could be more masculine, but it seems like that's just not my nature. I've had one therapist who challenged me on this, saying that I'm not effeminate at all, but I find that confusing. I see myself in a different way than she sees me, and the two images are quite different. I'm not muscular, not mechanically inclined, not athletic. I didn't even stay in Boy Scouts. I don't even know what masculine is, just that I'm not it. When I was talking about this with another therapist, and about how weak I am, she said I could do push ups. She didn't get it. That's the whole point. I'm not the kind of guy to do push-ups. That's what men do, and I'm not a full man.
So well put. How to reconcile this made me apologise for being "on top". It's all about dominance which means sexuality. My body does it or wants to. My body was always telling me to do things and my mind couldn't go along. The boys see the feminine aspects and beat you up because it's the same impulse as sex. It attracts them but everyone is confused.
 
@Strangeways
be appropriate mentors who can teach boys that men are men and no one can away our masculinity in reality.
Can I add that we can be mentors to not only boys, but to other men.
AND you are so right, our masculinity can never really be taken away, because it is in our fiber.

@learning2remember
I'm not the kind of guy to do push-ups. That's what men do, and I'm not a full man.
I could have written that. Seeing it spelled out is like looking in a mirror.
What I am discovering is we get to define masculinity. Yes my definition includes some of the stereotypes, but that is my battle. You don’t need to be athletic, muscular or a mechanical wiz. You just need to be you in you male body. What makes you whole? What grounds and fulfills you? Is it kindness, generosity, compassion? Leadership doesn’t need to crown the definition. Yesterday I was listening to people talk about hiring vets. Damn, if we had the money for an employee, I sure would want a vet. They are excellent followers. Yeah, tough marines are obedient! That’s not a word you hear a lot in conjunction with masculinity.
 
Couldn't resist...


img_0505.jpg


This is what I grew up with and NO, I never looked like that. I never associated my pudgy body with the sexual abuse I experienced as a boy but there doubtless has been both gender confusion and sexual orientation confusion that played out over the years. Cross dressing doesn't fit with being a manly man and that was my dirty secret as a teenager. Yes, I've spent hours in the gym at various times in my life but never with the dedication you've demonstrated Bri. More power to you. I guess I earned my bonafides as a man by seducing women... which was really more part of the problem than the solution. Now at age 78 I guess I'll rely on my grey beard as evidence of my masculinity. The ladies still think I'm pretty hot stuff but my libido has a different opinion... :mad:o_O
 
I totally struggle with this. There is a lot I can unpack here; but when I was trying to be masculine I loved reading the site Art of Manliness. @Erik Zachary mentioned in another post. (they have an app and podcast also)


I identify with a lot that was said here. Hopefully, some of the things I’ve learned will be of use to some of you. However, I’ve been done with being masculine for a long time. I’d rather be feminine for a load of reasons. My therapist says I have a deep inner disgust with masculinity which affects my friendships with males (like very few), view of a father God, sexuality and gender.

A lot of the feelings I have associated with gender have been identified by other trans people’s experiences. I didn’t realize this until I came to terms that I’m probably trans and not just insane. This allowed me to explore people’s life experiences; which echoed my own.

At the same time, I’ve learned that grief and trauma associated with being male can cause us to despise it. Seek relief in other areas such as proving you are masculine (sexual conquest) or forsaking masculinity all together.

I always go back to; what is the solution for gender issues that cause turmoil for people if transitioning isn’t the correct solution?

Another aspect; perhaps I blame the abuse on myself because I am male and being feminine is a way to continue to blame myself for the abuse. Or resolve the blame.

@BDD
my masculine identity was stolen.

This is me; my therapist thinks so. He says I was emasculated by the Abuse and my family. Molested by Perp stepfather, dressed in diapers as punishment, face smeared in my own filth, overbearing (likely narcissist) mother who protected them, molested by perp stepbrother, bullied, etc (sorry still working through the anger)

@learning2remember
In the company of other men, I sort of see myself as the lesser among them.

I totally get this. I don’t feel part of the guys. Except at WoR, where I actually felt good about being male and part of the group.

@Tom E.
I don't want to be passive in sex anymore (the bottom).

I’m a passive person in general. Especially with sex.
 
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I have suffered from the age of 8 when i was repeatedly sexually abused. That first time stole my boyhood. I felt I was not male nor female. I felt like I was nothing. I never referred to myself as a male. Over the past few months, I am trying to reprogram my brain to accept I am male and just as male as every other guy. I have light years to go working in this. I look in the mirror, trying not to barf at my reflection, and quietly say that I am male although I do not believe it.

What a freaking mess caused by these people. They erased me off the male population. Good grief.
 
I am blissfully buried in a project, so I haven’t had much time.
But I’ve been reading everything and one thing really hits home: how not alone I am.
I am sorry so many of you have felt the way I do. But I am empowered but seeing the commonality with so many men.
 
I admit I sound like a hypocrite. I believe that just being male defines us as masculine, period. Aside from that truth I have an ideal I admire and strive for.


I am afraid I may have given the wrong impression when I was equating strength with masculinity. Let me clarify that this ideal is not a testosterone drenched macho abomination. Rather, my core attraction is to the more benevolent, heroic figure.


Did my gayness direct me to this beauty at an early age? I don’t know and I don’t care. What I do know is my abuse forbid my participation. It spun me into a deep mind fuck that locked me up and away from my basic maleness.

Every press, push, squat and flex breaks down those lies. My quest for a muscular physique has transformed from a battle ground to play ground. In my body I have joy. Abusers be damned.
 
Did the abuse affect your idea of yourself as masculine. If so, how? Have you found ways to reclaim it?
Yes it affected my idea of myself as masculine profoundly.
How? Being raped and molested by various people male and female, made me feel powerless to defend myself - it taught me that I am weak.
The rape taught me that it is futile to fight because I will be overpowered (i.e. It made me perceive myself as weak and incapable of defending myself). There is much more but I think that is the core of it -
The only way I have reclaimed any strength or sense of masculinity is that I have persevered in tough situations (like my whole life) and am thus strong in that way (even though I feel very fragile at times.) Also, that I am strong enough to know and declare the truth of how these people used the little boy that grew into the man I am - and not to believe their lies that the rape never happened.
 
I admit I sound like a hypocrite. I believe that just being male defines us as masculine, period. Aside from that truth I have an ideal I admire and strive for.

I might disagree, but I’ve been confused about how I feel about things over the last week.

Sometimes I want to just get rid of everything that makes me male. (Ie body parts)
 
Since my abuses started, I lost my self worth and masculinity. I was not able to call myself a boy nor a man when I grew up. In my mind, I was nothing (literally nothing, just a carbon based life-form taking up space). Once I came out to my wife, I finally started to accept that I am a man. I cannot say it aloud yet but I feel like one and I like that feeling. Last year, I started working out and taking care of my body... first time ever, which surprised my wife.I even grew in my beard.
 
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