marriage
needanswers
Registrant
I'm curious about how many in here are or have been married previously?
marriage
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george of kent
Registrant
I was married almost 20 years; three children, five grandchildren.
I am now Gay partnered and have been for almost 27 years.
A lot of the gay guys here at MS have been married; and some of them (most of whom were not "out" to themselves until later in life) are still married to women.
Love, etc.,
I am now Gay partnered and have been for almost 27 years.
A lot of the gay guys here at MS have been married; and some of them (most of whom were not "out" to themselves until later in life) are still married to women.
Love, etc.,
needanswers
Registrant
I find that very concerning. Any tips for women who are in relationships dealing with men of abuse? That would be absolutely devastating for me to find that out after putting time and effort into the relationship.
markgreyblue
Registrant
i see that the person really means so much to
you if he's unhappy
it's more about you then isn't
it?
and what exactly are 'tips' ?
you if he's unhappy
it's more about you then isn't
it?
and what exactly are 'tips' ?
needanswers
Registrant
It is not about ME. When I went into this relationship, it was about the two of us becoming one, until one of us dies. I went into this relationship healthy, knowing what I wanted, etc. and expected the same from him. He and I had plenty of time to share with each other certain things that we felt to be important to share prior to getting married. Plus, I have children and he knew that this was not something I took lightly. My kids mean the world to me.
There were a few things about my past that I was not thrilled about sharing but felt that if he and I were going to have a healthy relationship, these were things that needed to be out in the open before putting making those vows. IMO, this issue most definitely should have come out before he and I got married. Seriously, we have only been married 11 months and all of a sudden this comes out last week.
I can deal with helping him through it but I will tell you this, if I were to find out later down the line that he is homosexual, YOU BET I'M GONNA BE TICKED. I came into this relationship healthy and most definitely heterosexual (not knocking on those of you who are) and I did come into this with certain expections and I could more than likely say the #1 thing would be that I wouldn't have to worry about his sexual orientation.
As far as the first part of your reply, I honestly don't know what you are getting at with that. The person means so much to me if he's unhappy? I really am not sure what you mean by that.
If you are suggesting that I don't want him to be happy, sure I do. But what about my happiness? If he has been dishonest with me, doesn't exactly make him concerned with my feelings too much, huh?
There were a few things about my past that I was not thrilled about sharing but felt that if he and I were going to have a healthy relationship, these were things that needed to be out in the open before putting making those vows. IMO, this issue most definitely should have come out before he and I got married. Seriously, we have only been married 11 months and all of a sudden this comes out last week.
I can deal with helping him through it but I will tell you this, if I were to find out later down the line that he is homosexual, YOU BET I'M GONNA BE TICKED. I came into this relationship healthy and most definitely heterosexual (not knocking on those of you who are) and I did come into this with certain expections and I could more than likely say the #1 thing would be that I wouldn't have to worry about his sexual orientation.
As far as the first part of your reply, I honestly don't know what you are getting at with that. The person means so much to me if he's unhappy? I really am not sure what you mean by that.
If you are suggesting that I don't want him to be happy, sure I do. But what about my happiness? If he has been dishonest with me, doesn't exactly make him concerned with my feelings too much, huh?
needanswers
Registrant
mark - as far as the "tips", i suppose i'm just wondering if there is something i should be able to see... sounds as if with some, there is a lot of lying/denying their sexual orientation and i suppose i wonder if there is something that i'm not seeing.
markgreyblue
Registrant
i think you are definitely in the wrong section
this is a section for Gay men
this is not Friends and Family
that maybe your best solution for finding
"women" in a simliar situation
I suggest you look there -
this is a section for Gay men
this is not Friends and Family
that maybe your best solution for finding
"women" in a simliar situation
I suggest you look there -
needanswers
Registrant
Guess I figured I would find more info in here, as this is the gay board and it sounds like you have all gone through your issues with your sexual identity. I'm sure that is not easy but I suppose I am being a bit self-centered because I feel that there is a possibility that I'm going to have to deal with this later. Maybe I should just call it quits right now no matter how much I love him because I have myself and children to think about and I just don't think I have it in me to help him with this abuse and, even though he says he is definitely heterosexual, I have my doubts now that I've been reading these postings. Thank you for taking the time to reply. I do appreciate that.
needanswers
Registrant
Intimacy issues? Unsure of your sexuality at the time? Were you in denial about things?
intimacy issues as in i kept her at an arm's length. i was emotionally closed off, depressed, and i wasnt intimate with her emotionally. oh i was all for sex any time, any where, but when it came to really being intimate with her, i was awful. at the time, i hadnt remembered by abuse. i was a mess, and my sexuality was really a trainwreck. i hadnt accepted anything about myself, and was just kind of pushing it all down inside. i am bi, but remarried to a woman currently. my atraction to men is more in the form of being used and submissive, and the draw is slight enough that i dont need to act on it to be happy and fulfilled. i am perfectly fine with my wife now that we have matured and worked through a whole list of issues.
needanswers
Registrant
Phoster, please realize that I'm not trying to be judgemental here at all.. Just from my perspective. How does your wife really feel about this? I know the thought of him thinking about men makes me feel less than a woman, even more so than if he was thinking about other women. At least I can compete with other women. I'm just sick. Do you act on your feelings towards men? Hope you don't mind me asking; I just need SOMETHING to help ME get through this. Maybe that is selfish but he was selfish in to begin with by all the lies.
roadrunner
Registrant
By way of clarification it needs to be borne in mind that when needsanswers asks: "I'm curious about how many in here are or have been married previously?", she means how many GAY survivors are or have been married. Her post was originally to the Gay Forum.
With the move of the original post to this forum, where partners can post, things seem to be getting scrambled up because it's not clear what different people are talking about. So here is my contribution to the definitive mangling of the topic.
My read of your original post, needsanswers, is that you are worried about the possibility that your husband either has been or eventually can be turned into a homosexual by what happened to him as a boy. I will proceed on the assumption that this is in fact what you are getting at, and of course sorry if I am getting it wrong.
Yes indeed, there are gay men who are married, and they do that for a variety of reasons. Some might be confused or uncertain about their sexuality and unwilling to face the fact that they are gay. Others may figure that marrying and starting a family will sort things out. Whatever the reasons, sure, there are gay men who are married.
But when George repied to you, he was simply confirming that some of these married gay men (or formerly married gay men), including himself, are also survivors. I don't think he would ever wish to suggest that he or any other gay man was "turned gay" by the abuse he suffered. Similarly, Phoster speaks of being bi, but I don't think he means that he is bi because he was abused when he was young.
It's a common myth that sexual abuse and homosexuality are linked, I suppose because both involve male-male sexual acts. But for a gay man sex is only part of his identity. There are also considerations like his social circle, who his soulmates are, places and situations where he feels comfortable and accepted, and so on. Basically, his "gayness" is part of who he is; it's inseparable from his identity as a person and it's one thing that defines him.
But abuse is nothing like that. Abuse is a heinous crime committed against a defenseless innocent child. An abused boy will very often be tempted to define himself in terms of his abuse because it is such an overwhelming emotional issue for him, but his recovery consists largely in BREAKING that link. He has to understand and believe that abuse does NOT define him. He needs to believe that he is okay as a boy (or man), and that it's the abuse that's so perverse and wrong.
There are lots of other things that disprove the myth: for example, most pedophiles consider themselves heterosexual and not gay at all. They go for kids for the ego trip of having such absolute power over a child.
The false logic of the myth can be seen if we look at the parallel example of a woman who has been raped. It would of course be absurd for a man to imagine that this terrible experience would turn his wife into a nymphomaniac. (I know this is more complicated than I make it out to be.)
That said, survivors sometimes do engage in male-male sexual acts as adults. But this often has nothing to do with homosexuality. The overwhelming emotional trauma of abuse causes the survivor such emotional harm that he falls into despair and thinks that he is doomed to this and will never escape from it. So in desperation he re-enacts the abuse with other men, the idea being that this time at least he is in control. If a partner's husband is doing this she needs to know that this is in no way a judgment against her as a woman or partner, but a terrible verdict of shame and loathing against himself.
Another effect of abuse is sexual confusion. As a boy the survivor lost his emerging sense of sexual boundaries - what is and is not appropriate behavior, what he should or should not do, what's right and wrong, and so on. Again, this is in no way a matter of abuse turning him gay. This confusion will not simply go away because he grows up, and it can show up in adulthood in various ways. But these problems are not just matters of contacts with other men. I think (but am not sure) it is far more common for the survivor to show this confusion through fear of sex, guilt over being sexual even with someone he loves, inability to perform sexually, and so on.
You rightly point out that it's important to have an honest and healthy foundation for a marriage, and that if there are serious issues these should be discussed before the two decide to marry. But where abuse is concerned it often doesn't work out that way in practice. In many cases the survivor will have "convinced" himself that what happened years ago doesn't matter and that he is "over it". In others the survivor has no coherent memories, or only fragments, and does not begin to recover these until later in life. My wife and I got married in 1981, for example, and I began to come out of denial only in about 2000. It was not until November 2003 that I could actually write the words "I was molested as a kid".
And sure, there are also many cases where the survivor remembers it all and knows how terribly it has affected him, but cannot tell his partner. Again, this isn't directed against the partner. The problem is that the survivor is so traumatized that he cannot tell ANYONE. And I think it's significant that one thing he may dread is the possibility that people who know will think this has made him gay.
Just my thoughts - hope they are helpful.
Much love,
Larry
With the move of the original post to this forum, where partners can post, things seem to be getting scrambled up because it's not clear what different people are talking about. So here is my contribution to the definitive mangling of the topic.
My read of your original post, needsanswers, is that you are worried about the possibility that your husband either has been or eventually can be turned into a homosexual by what happened to him as a boy. I will proceed on the assumption that this is in fact what you are getting at, and of course sorry if I am getting it wrong.
Yes indeed, there are gay men who are married, and they do that for a variety of reasons. Some might be confused or uncertain about their sexuality and unwilling to face the fact that they are gay. Others may figure that marrying and starting a family will sort things out. Whatever the reasons, sure, there are gay men who are married.
But when George repied to you, he was simply confirming that some of these married gay men (or formerly married gay men), including himself, are also survivors. I don't think he would ever wish to suggest that he or any other gay man was "turned gay" by the abuse he suffered. Similarly, Phoster speaks of being bi, but I don't think he means that he is bi because he was abused when he was young.
It's a common myth that sexual abuse and homosexuality are linked, I suppose because both involve male-male sexual acts. But for a gay man sex is only part of his identity. There are also considerations like his social circle, who his soulmates are, places and situations where he feels comfortable and accepted, and so on. Basically, his "gayness" is part of who he is; it's inseparable from his identity as a person and it's one thing that defines him.
But abuse is nothing like that. Abuse is a heinous crime committed against a defenseless innocent child. An abused boy will very often be tempted to define himself in terms of his abuse because it is such an overwhelming emotional issue for him, but his recovery consists largely in BREAKING that link. He has to understand and believe that abuse does NOT define him. He needs to believe that he is okay as a boy (or man), and that it's the abuse that's so perverse and wrong.
There are lots of other things that disprove the myth: for example, most pedophiles consider themselves heterosexual and not gay at all. They go for kids for the ego trip of having such absolute power over a child.
The false logic of the myth can be seen if we look at the parallel example of a woman who has been raped. It would of course be absurd for a man to imagine that this terrible experience would turn his wife into a nymphomaniac. (I know this is more complicated than I make it out to be.)
That said, survivors sometimes do engage in male-male sexual acts as adults. But this often has nothing to do with homosexuality. The overwhelming emotional trauma of abuse causes the survivor such emotional harm that he falls into despair and thinks that he is doomed to this and will never escape from it. So in desperation he re-enacts the abuse with other men, the idea being that this time at least he is in control. If a partner's husband is doing this she needs to know that this is in no way a judgment against her as a woman or partner, but a terrible verdict of shame and loathing against himself.
Another effect of abuse is sexual confusion. As a boy the survivor lost his emerging sense of sexual boundaries - what is and is not appropriate behavior, what he should or should not do, what's right and wrong, and so on. Again, this is in no way a matter of abuse turning him gay. This confusion will not simply go away because he grows up, and it can show up in adulthood in various ways. But these problems are not just matters of contacts with other men. I think (but am not sure) it is far more common for the survivor to show this confusion through fear of sex, guilt over being sexual even with someone he loves, inability to perform sexually, and so on.
You rightly point out that it's important to have an honest and healthy foundation for a marriage, and that if there are serious issues these should be discussed before the two decide to marry. But where abuse is concerned it often doesn't work out that way in practice. In many cases the survivor will have "convinced" himself that what happened years ago doesn't matter and that he is "over it". In others the survivor has no coherent memories, or only fragments, and does not begin to recover these until later in life. My wife and I got married in 1981, for example, and I began to come out of denial only in about 2000. It was not until November 2003 that I could actually write the words "I was molested as a kid".
And sure, there are also many cases where the survivor remembers it all and knows how terribly it has affected him, but cannot tell his partner. Again, this isn't directed against the partner. The problem is that the survivor is so traumatized that he cannot tell ANYONE. And I think it's significant that one thing he may dread is the possibility that people who know will think this has made him gay.
Just my thoughts - hope they are helpful.
Much love,
Larry
needanswers
Registrant
I don't have a clue what "makes" a person gay.. I truly don't. The thing I do know is that I would love to help him through this with the knowledge that our marriage is intact and that I don't have to worry that down the road I'm going to have to worry about his possible sexual tendencies and the effect it is going to have on our family. I care about him and I'm going to pray that he realizes what it is he wants but in the meantime, I'm not sure that I want to sit around and wait for him. Even though he assures me that he is not, I've read a lot of these posts and just as a general rule, I realize that a person has to know who they are and it takes years for that to happen sometimes and I don't know that I want to invest my time to that to find out in the end that this is truly not what he wants.... I have shared my feelings about this with him too...
Does that make sense? I truly don't want to be selfish and I honestly do want him to be happy but at the same time, I'm not sure I should feel that I have to jeopardize myself and my health in order for him to accomplish that. ????
Does that make sense? I truly don't want to be selfish and I honestly do want him to be happy but at the same time, I'm not sure I should feel that I have to jeopardize myself and my health in order for him to accomplish that. ????
roadrunner
Registrant
Yes, it makes all the sense in the world. Recovery from abuse involves a lot of tough decisions with no guarantee of the desired results. Both partners have to decide what they can and cannot do, and at the end of the day what's most important in this respect is honesty.
Much love,
Larry
Much love,
Larry
Lost Spark
Registrant
Roadrunner,
I have been on this site from now and then. Moreso, I think it's my own personal denial from 'dealing' with my loved one's problem head on, since he doesn't want to deal with it completely yet, as well. But, things are changing for the two of us and are about to embark on a new journey together in Marriage soon.
His CSA has come up more. I love him and have stood by him always and plan on doing so no matter what. But, there is always that doubt, the fear and the insecurity. I've tried understanding him, but that's not feasible. Because, as it is always stated time and time again, no one will ever completely understand a victim's situation, except for themselves. But, I'm trying, daily.
Now, times are tougher than ever. We love each other, but we need to learn how to work with this in our marriage from now on.
Your post gave me so many answers that I have been looking for in the past few days and I am counting my blessings for having wandered over here tonight. Thank you Roadrunner. You have instilled more faith and confidence in me to continue on this journey to not only be my loved one's future wife and friend, but also his confident support system.
I have been on this site from now and then. Moreso, I think it's my own personal denial from 'dealing' with my loved one's problem head on, since he doesn't want to deal with it completely yet, as well. But, things are changing for the two of us and are about to embark on a new journey together in Marriage soon.
His CSA has come up more. I love him and have stood by him always and plan on doing so no matter what. But, there is always that doubt, the fear and the insecurity. I've tried understanding him, but that's not feasible. Because, as it is always stated time and time again, no one will ever completely understand a victim's situation, except for themselves. But, I'm trying, daily.
Now, times are tougher than ever. We love each other, but we need to learn how to work with this in our marriage from now on.
Your post gave me so many answers that I have been looking for in the past few days and I am counting my blessings for having wandered over here tonight. Thank you Roadrunner. You have instilled more faith and confidence in me to continue on this journey to not only be my loved one's future wife and friend, but also his confident support system.
Needanswers,
Hi and a delayed welcome from me. My b/f was s/a by his mother and father. Everything in his life is somehow touched by sex in his mind. To be honest, some of things that he finds erotic were a bit strange to me because I thought of the gay aspect. I got past that and came to believe that it was simply his openness to sex. Quite frankly, I'm pretty open too and there is no abuse in my past. That belief, of course, went out the window when I found out about the csa and I came back around to wondering about the influences of the csa and whether he wanted to be with a man - ever.
The answer I have is this - no, he doesn't want to. My man loves women and he loves me in particular. Does he fantasize about men? Has he ever acted out with a man? I don't know the answer to that and I suspect that if it ever happened it will be years or maybe never before I find out. I'm perfectly OK with that because there are enough issues for the two of us to deal with to fill the balance of my life without throwing that one into the mix.
I have no fear that he will leave me for a man. Any "tendencies" he may have toward homosexuality are purely in the forum of sex which is a loaded gun to start with.
My b/f is not gay and I highly doubt that your husband is either. He may have gigantic questions about how he feels about sex, he may be curious in ways that make not only you but him very uncomfortable but as Larry said above, sex is only one part of what makes the person whether they are straight or gay or bi.
Your husband has confided to you and he will hopefully find himself in therapy to wind through this mine field. Asking you to stick it out, with children in tow is huge. Your doubts are legitimate and honest. The only thing I will ask of you is that you give yourself and your husband some time to come down and adjust to the new information you have. Hes only recently disclosed to you and there are more emotions and questions rattling around in your brain than probably existed in your whole past life. Youre here asking questions and reading so that you can learn; thats the best thing you can possibly do. Take things in doses you can handle because even a little bit of this is overwhelming.
Most of all - give yourselves some time. No life changing decisions should be made in a panic or based on what if.
ROCK ON.........Trish
Hi and a delayed welcome from me. My b/f was s/a by his mother and father. Everything in his life is somehow touched by sex in his mind. To be honest, some of things that he finds erotic were a bit strange to me because I thought of the gay aspect. I got past that and came to believe that it was simply his openness to sex. Quite frankly, I'm pretty open too and there is no abuse in my past. That belief, of course, went out the window when I found out about the csa and I came back around to wondering about the influences of the csa and whether he wanted to be with a man - ever.
The answer I have is this - no, he doesn't want to. My man loves women and he loves me in particular. Does he fantasize about men? Has he ever acted out with a man? I don't know the answer to that and I suspect that if it ever happened it will be years or maybe never before I find out. I'm perfectly OK with that because there are enough issues for the two of us to deal with to fill the balance of my life without throwing that one into the mix.
I have no fear that he will leave me for a man. Any "tendencies" he may have toward homosexuality are purely in the forum of sex which is a loaded gun to start with.
My b/f is not gay and I highly doubt that your husband is either. He may have gigantic questions about how he feels about sex, he may be curious in ways that make not only you but him very uncomfortable but as Larry said above, sex is only one part of what makes the person whether they are straight or gay or bi.
Your husband has confided to you and he will hopefully find himself in therapy to wind through this mine field. Asking you to stick it out, with children in tow is huge. Your doubts are legitimate and honest. The only thing I will ask of you is that you give yourself and your husband some time to come down and adjust to the new information you have. Hes only recently disclosed to you and there are more emotions and questions rattling around in your brain than probably existed in your whole past life. Youre here asking questions and reading so that you can learn; thats the best thing you can possibly do. Take things in doses you can handle because even a little bit of this is overwhelming.
Most of all - give yourselves some time. No life changing decisions should be made in a panic or based on what if.
ROCK ON.........Trish
sorry, i didnt get back before now.
my wife knows i chose her. she is the one i want to be with. my atractions have no bearing on chosing her or how i feel about her. fidelity transends what sex a person is. in otherwords, i didnt only forsake all women to be with her, i forsook all people to be with her. man or woman doesnt matter. when i chose her, i gave up all those others, and have no regrets.
my wife knows i chose her. she is the one i want to be with. my atractions have no bearing on chosing her or how i feel about her. fidelity transends what sex a person is. in otherwords, i didnt only forsake all women to be with her, i forsook all people to be with her. man or woman doesnt matter. when i chose her, i gave up all those others, and have no regrets.
Hi Needanswers,
I really do understand how you feel right now, I've been through all those feelings and still have this horrible, 'what's true/what's a lie/what if a man is really what he wants' panick which comes and goes.
Don't know if this is any help to you, but one thing I realised recently was that part of my discomfort with knowing about my bf's bisexuality was to do with the awkwardness he dsiplayed around the issue. I think it maybe makes me feel like it's MASSIVE, therefore, it must be more than what he feels for me. So, it makes me more jealous. All the secrecy/shame etc I think in a lot of ways did make it massive, but not in the way I thought.
Can't recall who said it in this discussion, but I definately wouldn't recommend making any hasty decisions right now. Your feelings have been terribly hurt and your trust has been broken, but if you 'react' under those circumstances, you may not be giving your relationship the chance it deserves.
Also, are you getting the support you need right now? Therapist etc..
good luck with everything
Beccy
peace
I really do understand how you feel right now, I've been through all those feelings and still have this horrible, 'what's true/what's a lie/what if a man is really what he wants' panick which comes and goes.
Don't know if this is any help to you, but one thing I realised recently was that part of my discomfort with knowing about my bf's bisexuality was to do with the awkwardness he dsiplayed around the issue. I think it maybe makes me feel like it's MASSIVE, therefore, it must be more than what he feels for me. So, it makes me more jealous. All the secrecy/shame etc I think in a lot of ways did make it massive, but not in the way I thought.
Can't recall who said it in this discussion, but I definately wouldn't recommend making any hasty decisions right now. Your feelings have been terribly hurt and your trust has been broken, but if you 'react' under those circumstances, you may not be giving your relationship the chance it deserves.
Also, are you getting the support you need right now? Therapist etc..
good luck with everything
Beccy
peace