Maralyn French and Triggers

Eyes1111

Registrant
I'm wondering if anyone can lend their voice to me because I've lost my own. Can't seem to sort it out after what happend to me.

On another forum, I brought up the subject of Maralyn French where I believe her having a fictional character say "All men are rapists and that's all they are". One said it was one character who said it. Doesn't mean the other characters automatically condemn it

Doubtful, in my mind. Anyone who allows a character to say that certainly deserves suspicion.

At first, I was also convinced to not pass judgement on Maralyn French. Until I read this interview from 2006:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/book.....ion.gender

And this statement in particular:

"God, how they attacked me in some quarters," French says now. "And why? Because I told the truth. They said I was a man hater, and I never defended myself against that, because I do believe that men are to blame for the condition of women." Still? "Yes. Even men who are not actively keeping women down, but are profiting from women's position, or who don't mind things being the way they are - they are responsible too. I don't hate men. In fact, throughout my life I've always said I like men very much. But men are responsible for the situation of women."


Not to mention other areas that...

Just looking at it...

I wanted to slit my throat after reading this. I associated it to the women and girls who bullied me. A genuine trigger, something I'd rather not have.

Am I crazy in thinking her views are just disgusting, since I had been on the receiving end of less than deserving treatment from the opposite sex at the same time as my own sex?

Can somebody help me out here? Because I feel like I'm alone and insane.

:(
 

Zkahtt

Registrant
That quote sounds to me like she is doing one or more things probably some with intent and other w/o even realizing. She is being intentionally provocative, she may have been abused and copes by demonizing men in general, she may be pathological, she is certainly passive aggressive and avoiding taking responsibility for herself. And I have the suspicion that interview/quote may be old since the link didn't work for me and a search under her name on the Gaurdian site produced no results. I get the feeling this quote was made long before Thatcher. But even if she is modern it isn't weird that such ideas bother you even if it is a fictional character.

BTW a lot of early and modern feminists think this way. It is fashionable in some circles and provides some with a "character" they can play or be to work out their personal issues in relation to men. Most often this has to do with having been abused in one way or another by a father figure or a first love.
Well thats my opinion. I think your feeling insulted and a little sick to think you might be one of "them" is normal. We aren't all rapists as you well know so just try to allow her ideas to be hers and know that they are not the truth.
 
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Eyes1111

Registrant
kidneythis said:
That quote sounds to me like she is doing one or more things probably some with intent and other w/o even realizing. She is being intentionally provocative, she may have been abused and copes by demonizing men in general, she may be pathological, she is certainly passive aggressive and avoiding taking responsibility for herself. And I have the suspicion that interview/quote may be old since the link didn't work for me and a search under her name on the Gaurdian site produced no results. I get the feeling this quote was made long before Thatcher. But even if she is modern it isn't weird that such ideas bother you even if it is a fictional character.

BTW a lot of early and modern feminists think this way. It is fashionable in some circles and provides some with a "character" they can play or be to work out their personal issues in relation to men. Most often this has to do with having been abused in one way or another by a father figure or a first love.
Well thats my opinion. I think your feeling insulted and a little sick to think you might be one of "them" is normal. We aren't all rapists as you well know so just try to allow her ideas to be hers and know that they are not the truth.

I know I'm not a rapist. I'm insulted and felt sick that French implies, in the article, I'm to blame for women's oppression. This is what bothers me.


So getting abused by someone gives her the right to slander men? Funny, if it were a man saying it about women, their heads would roll. No, she's a "Feminist" for women's rights so of course she gets free reign to think such misandric thoughts thanks to the current climate.

What saddens me is that her novel was influential. Regardless of how stupid and inconsiderate of the statement one of her fictional characters says. I imagine she probably wrote herself as the character and since the character gets shot in the end, likely she's saying "See. Told you so."
 

Zkahtt

Registrant
I didn't say she had a right to anything.

Try distancing yourself from the remark. It isn't directed at you personally it is a generalized venting or frustration and anger pointing at an amorphous group to affix blame for a real or perceived infliction of harm.

Do you take everything that might be applied to you no matter how tangentially so personally? I don't think so.
I ask to point out to you how this particular item may have triggered you. I can't think of one now but I can similarly be triggered by things others have no problem with. I get very insulted and righteously indignant and truly cannot fathom why others do not see what I see.
I'm not minimizing you or your feelings about this woman's writing, that is an obnoxious remark. I am suggesting that maybe you are taking it so closely to heart because you have been triggered and that if you weren't you'd ignore it as it should be ignored.
I'm pretty aware of the world and I've never heard of this woman until your post. I think you give her more credit than she deserves. It may be a case of "she's world famous in Britain" or possibly the Commonwealth. So you shouldn't be so worried about her influence over others.

People for the length of time have been writing things that inflame passion in others and it hasn't ended us or stopped civilization from continueing to grow. There is a certain perspective one must take toward these provacatuers which mainly involves using disbelief of the words until one can work out if one doesn't instantly see the truth or lack of truth in those words. If one "instantly sees" then one should be able to argue for or against the idea effectively and reluctance to do so should be an alarm that one is applying belief rather than reason to the subject.

In the end I agree with your rejection of the remark. I don't think it should upset you as it has and I hope you can work out a way to coexist with this remark peacefully. The only thing you can change in this matter is your perspective.
 

catfish86

Registrant
I also reject that remark. Women and females are actually much more prolific bullies and abusers than they are given credit for. Females more often are social bullies, they rely more on ostracism, gossip and causing others to physically abuse. They also tend to be more stealthy in their abuse and often hide behind the nurture perception of females.
 

somerandomguy

Registrant
Thanks for bringing this up. Until very recently, reading that remark would have triggered me too and sent me into a spiral of self-loathing.

However, I understand that I am not a rapist or even a potential rapist just because I am a man. I also understand my shame is coming from the many years of being taught that all sexuality is bad and could send me to Hell and the false accusations of rape my ex-wife made against me.

Marilyn French sounds like a very angry woman. However, her issues are hers alone, even if she voices them on a soapbox. Making her problems *your* problems is a mistake.
 

Eyes1111

Registrant
somerandomguy said:
Thanks for bringing this up. Until very recently, reading that remark would have triggered me too and sent me into a spiral of self-loathing.

However, I understand that I am not a rapist or even a potential rapist just because I am a man. I also understand my shame is coming from the many years of being taught that all sexuality is bad and could send me to Hell and the false accusations of rape my ex-wife made against me.

Marilyn French sounds like a very angry woman. However, her issues are hers alone, even if she voices them on a soapbox. Making her problems *your* problems is a mistake.

I think the root of it is when I found out my favorite writer endorsed her. Alan Moore, when writing From Hell, included some of her observations in the dialogue of the main antongonist.

I couldn't believe it. He even said she had some great ideas.

It certainly broke my heart to have a very inspirational icon (his writings were influential in getting me to write again) sully his world with views from the same woman who blamed men for everything.

I still haven't abadon his works. But for him to introduce such a layer into his world...

... :(
 

Zkahtt

Registrant
Writers are famously bad people to put ones faith in. I forget who it was that first let me down in that arena but it was during an interview that I found him to be wanting and not the person I had imagined at all. I was not yet 18 and had discovered books to bury myself in.
Most recently Christopher Hitchen's has gone on to let me down. He was actually who he seemed to be in his writing until suddenly he found out he could make oodles of money from American conservatives by preaching their party line and he jumped on board immediatly using the September 11 attack on the Twin Towers as an excuse to begin advocating for what is essentially a new crusade.
He undermined everything he ever wrote or said prior as far as I am concerned.
 
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Eyes1111

Registrant
kidneythis said:
Writers are famously bad people to put ones faith in. I forget who it was that first let me down in that arena but it was during an interview that I found him to be wanting and not the person I had imagined at all. I was not yet 18 and had discovered books to bury myself in.
Most recently Christopher Hitchen's has gone on to let me down. He was actually who he seemed to be in his writing until suddenly he found out he could make oodles of money from American conservatives by preaching their party line and he jumped on board immediatly using the September 11 attack on the Twin Towers as an excuse to begin advocating for what is essentially a new crusade.
He undermined everything he ever wrote or said prior as far as I am concerned.

Wow. Must've been a big disappointment to have read about his one hundred and eighty degree turn around. Talk about selling out.

How did it feel when you read that interview?
 

Zkahtt

Registrant
? I'm not sure what you mean but the first time I was refering to something I read in a magazine, Omni I think about one of the SiFi authors I like. I don't remember hwat it was I was a kid it could have been the brand of pants he wore.
Feel? I don't know, let down?

If you mean Hitchen's then it was the same maybe, a little more so since he was a very good liberal advocate and I honestly believed him. I saw him on some Fox news show and I had to do a double take because I couldn't equate the words coming out of his mouth with his face for a few minutes.
While the poisitions he defended are still valid his defense of them isn't. Maybe dissapointed in him and me for not seeing his shallowness or is it callowness?
It was very shocking to see his change and it was hard to take until I learned he is an alcoholic. Sea changes in outlook and emotions are almost normal to active alcoholics. His alcoholism is the reason for his throat cancer.
 
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