Madonna-Whore Spin-off: Pre-emptive Rejection

Madonna-Whore Spin-off: Pre-emptive Rejection

stride

Registrant
Hope it's okay for me to take the following quote from the M-Whore thread and start a new topic with it. The M-W thread has evolved into a discussion of many different points of interest--topics in their own right--and for some reason this one stuck out for me this morning.

[Survivors] may use hostility to protect themselves from expected rejection by rejecting others first. Survivors may suffer from a conflict between craving intimacy and dependency but needing to control and manipulate to feel safe in relationships" (Ratican 34).
While I think it's fair to say that the kinds of behaviours mentioned above are not the sole province of survivors, such behaviours none-the-less makes particular sense coming from survivors of sexual abuse. I thank Dave for posting the article excerpt that he did, because it helps further our understanding of survivor behaviours/thinking, which is helpful for survivors and partners alike: As SAR wrote, "They are tools-- and when you put a tool in my hand, then I have hope."

In "Thinking of Leaving Him..." I recently related an exchange between B. and I wherein he suddenly denied having ever said he wanted to marry me. I was quite aware that he knew as well as I that he'd talked about wanting to marry me many times, and even very recently. Still, even as offended, hurt, and floored as I was by his sudden claims to the contrary, intuitively I understood that what he was really trying to do, if only subconsciously, was shield himself from the possibility that I might "reject" him by turning him down..."[protecting himself] from expected rejection by rejecting [me] first." And when we finally talked about that exchange 6 days later, he said as much.

Hearing him volunteer, without direct prompting, an honest explanation for his sudden denial that day of having ever said he wanted to marry me told me a number of very important things: (1) that he'd spent some time reflecting on his own behaviour; (2) that he was willing to take the risk (huge for him) of further exposing himself by being honest with me about his fear that I'd reject him; (3)that despite his feeling so scared and very vulnerable, especially by owning/sharing those feelings with me, he was demonstrating much love and trust in me by putting them on the table; and (4) that by having done so he'd presented me with an opportunity to, among other things, demonstrate that such honesty and disclosure on his part can in fact be very affirming, bringing us closer together, instead of estranging us as his earlier attempts at "pre-emptive rejection" had so effectively done. What we're talking about here is building trust and opening doors to a shared, authentic, more deeply-experienced intimacy.

Interestingly, he seemed quite surprised at just how hurt, offended and alienated/disenfranchised I had felt as a result of his pre-emptive denials. Until we finally talked about it, the actual effect of his efforts to protect himself from rejection, was in fact to elicit an abandonment/rejection of him from me. My trust and good will had been deeply shaken and so I had responded by trying to protect myself (by distancing, etc) from further hurt/offense at his hands. For whatever reason, his denial (pre-emptive rejection) that day had felt like the proverbial straw to me and I'd spent the following week making plans to leave. Had he not sat me down and started talking honestly (and listening for that matter)when he did I don't know that he'd still be living here now. Phew!

It is a Pavlovian type of thing and I don't believe for one minute that we won't go through such things together many times yet. But I believe that honest talks like the one we had that day, reading articles like the one Dave posted and so forth will make such times easier to get through and past. Those fears and behaviours have become well cemented over DECADES and one affirming experience with talking about them is not going to change that.

What a heap of issues. Does the rest of the article have some degree of hope?
Peaceful,

I do believe that at least some real understanding of the issues (and yes, there are many) is critically important for the healing process and for giving us all hope of more loving, authentic and affirming relationships in the long run. I have tried to demonstrate the potential and power of this using just one tiny example from my own relationship but either way, the article was useful for me in at least affirming what understanding/learning I've gained so far in my own journey with my guy.

Hope to hear more from you...

Stride
 
Stride
I just finished replying to the other topic, and my brain is in danger of melting ;) , but I had to reply to this.

and (4) that by having done so he'd presented me with an opportunity to, among other things, demonstrate that such honesty and disclosure on his part can in fact be very affirming, bringing us closer together, instead of estranging us as his earlier attempts at "pre-emptive rejection" had so effectively done. What we're talking about here is building trust and opening doors to a shared, authentic, more deeply-experienced intimacy.
My form of 'hostile behaviour' took many forms, and I seem to remember me doing it as a power trip. I would manipulate situations to make my wife wrong and me right.
I think it was my only recognisable way of being in control, make her feel bad about her behaviour towards me, no matter what lies and manipulations I'd used to engineer the situation.

She would ask me to pick her up at a certain place and time, so I'd go early or late, even go to a diffent place, then swear blind that she's told me that time and place. I would lie so much that eventually she'd believe me and apologise. I'd won.
There's a load of shit like this that I used to do, but I never carried it through to point four, that never occured to me.

I recognise the first three points NOW, but over many years of hostile behaviour I never recognised them at all, and because of the prolonged nature of this hostile behaviour I can't reconcile it with point four even now.
When I was doing this would I admit to what I was doing? "NO" - even when proved wrong I would continue lying, deny, and bullshit my through it. Admit I was wrong or engaging in some kind of hateful behaviour? never!

I sometimes wonder how she stuck around for so long, I really do.

Dave :(
 
Hi Stride,

Yes, the Pre-emptive Strike is something I used many times in past relationships. I viewed it as beneficial for both the one I was nuking and myself. I was saving them from becoming too involved with a messed up person like me, and I was saving myself from future rejection by them that I knew was sure to eventually come.

Here's a topic I started on it a couple of months ago with further details:

https://malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000902

It was a warped way of thinking, I know, but at the time made perfect sense.
 
Hey Y'all - it's been a while.

Things were going really well for a while, but now I'm baaaaack trying to convince myself that THIS is finally THE time that I can find the courage or impulse to self-preservation to just walk away & let it go!!!! Who needs this kind of aggrevation???

Here's a question, though: for Youze Guys who have engaged in the pre-emptive stuff: do you remember if your strikes were in any way correlated by with receiving a special gift from your SO?

I seem to be picking up a pattern here with N & I don't know if it has any significance. But as I look back over our years of Push-Me-Pull-You-ism, I can now see that many of his long withdrawn silences have seemed to follow a time when I have gifted him with something very personal.

Has anyone else had this experience?
 
I can now see that many of his long withdrawn silences have seemed to follow a time when I have gifted him with something very personal.

Has anyone else had this experience?
Two babies. :(
 
Oh noooooooo!

What could be more precious than that?

I don't remember "this part" of your story - would it be too invasive to ask for more of it?
 
EGL,

Thanks for the link. I've read those posts and certainly appreciate the referral to them.

Gotta fly. Cheers,

Stride
 
I can't relate to my wife, or anyone else ( and I've done this crap with other people ) to them giving something good to me or otherwise being good to me.

As far as I can remember I used this tactic when I felt that 'someone' was controlling me, however small and insignificant that control was.
I never had the self confidence to say "no" to anyone, and maybe that led me to judge every request as an imposition?

It's very possible that someone 'being nice' could be viewed the same way, survivors often see that as someone offering 'being nice' and expecting something in return.
We're suspicious, with good reasons.

Dave
 
Kolisha,

Yes, I've certainly had this experience...especially during the first 2 1/2 years of my relationship with B. For example, there was a time when I was working mostly days, while he was working 2 F/T jobs, one from 10-6 pm, the other from 8:30 pm to 3 a.m. We'd just started living together and I used to take great pleasure in having a nice dinner ready for him when he got home from his day job. If nothing else, since I had the time to I figured I was being a good partner by saving him the time/effort of having to make his own dinner between shifts.

Well, the first one or two times I did that he seemed delighted. Then suddenly he was furious with me, as if I'd done something terribly wrong and offensive. I remember him enraged and yelling at me that he was quite capable of making his own meals, sure as hell didn't need me to be doing that for him, and demanding that I stop doing such things. And he would become angry and/or distant with me when I would do other things too, like surprise him with a card or gift. After awhile I stopped doing that so much, since it certainly was never my intent to offend or alienate him by being demonstrably thoughtful or giving! It was VERY confusing and I really felt hurt by it all, nevermind restrained.

We've been through an awful lot of really hard times in our relationship since then, including two separations (initiated by me, both of which were supposed to be break-ups), but things are getting a lot easier now. He is still not always comfortable with me doing certain things for him or giving things to him, but when I do he seems much more likely to accept such things from me in the spirit in which they are given. I cannot recall the last time he yelled at me for being demonstrative, thoughtful or loving (thank God), and that's a big--and delightful--change from before.

The SA he suffered at the hands of his father began at age six with the "gift" of an electric train set. A gift for which he was to pay dearly (he's still "paying" for it, which is why we're both here on this site). That he is uncomfortable with/suspicious of being given gifts is no mystery to me.

Hope this helps?

Stride
 
This was really helpful-although i can only just begin to grasp its significance. My husband has done the push me pull me thing for years, I always end up being to blame or in the wrong somehow even when i've tried my hardest and I am only just beginning to associate it with his SA issues. It has helped to explain his child like neediness of me but also his frequent rejection of me, or nice gestures that I have offered. It is really confusing and disheartening when you are trying your best to add positives into a strained relationship and then they are ignored or outright rejected. It leaves me feeling bullied but I really admire the strength of stride to be able to see the positives in the partners behaviour and the important changes taking place. I'm new around here and I've read alot of stuff and that really struck a cord-thanks
 
Shell
It's good that you've read through some of the old posts here, there's some amazing stuff which will never go out of date, these same problems keep coming from the next generations of survivors and partners.

The good news is that I think we survivors can get over the 'push me - pull you' behaviour, but it's not easy. And I certainly needed my wife to remind me of it.

I still do it a bit, but we both recognise it now, she usually sees it before I do though.
But sometimes, like last night, I recognise it happening as my mouth is moving and getting my 'venom' in first.
Last night it was a completly stupid thing, so stupid and insignificant I can't even remember what it was - but she said something and I got a low shot in straight away.
There was no reason to do it at all, but it's as though the behaviour is so ingrained and automatic that I have to make a concious effort to not do it, and any spontaneous remark from her risks this bad response.

I'm sure it's got its roots in the all too commn survivor trait of "I am shit, so I'll make sure that I feel like shit"
Many of us went for long periods of lives believing "we were shit" and feeling worthless, so we didn't trust ourselves to feel good. I believed feeling good was something other people just said they felt, I honestly thought the world was a bad place and people who said otherwise were liars.
So I just brought everyone down to my level rather than strive for the happiness that turned out to be real.

I also think that a bit of depression, frustration with something, or any of lifes 'normal' small problems can make me ( us ? ) more prone to going back to this behaviour. Last night my favourite 13mm spanner was nowhere to be found and I had spent 10 minutes looking for it in the mess that is my garage when my wife turned up, so she got the hard time instantly. I think we also tend to magnify these small problems as well, which doesn't help any.
Anyway, I found my spanner, exactly where I'd left it the previous night, and then said "sorry" with a hug.

Dave
 
A light bulb moment for me. I've read this page before but just now Ive REALLY read it.

Just this am, I was awake when my chap got up for work so I had the bright idea of getting up with him and making us both breakfast, (I normally sleep longer but we've been so close lately since he disclosed the CSA) so we could eat together before he leaves for the day. I'm not at work today.

I did eggs, toast, steaming pot of tea, radio on, healthy digestive yogurt for him etc etc, happy happy...

He told me his yogurts had really helped his digestive system and I asked how. His reply was obtuse, deliberatly awkward and dismissive. He then said he'd rather have had different bread for toast, and called me a name when I put his second egg on my pate by accident instead of his.

We literally stopped and looked at each other wondering where on earth all that had come from, he then apologised profusely and his happy mood of 10 mins ago evaporated into sadness, which stayed as he left for work!!

Does that scenario sound familiar?

I feel like I want to ring him quick and tell him that its OK because its push me - pull me, its part of the legacy and it can be overcome!

I'll tell him but I'l wait till he gets home. We are doing serious work on not "looking after each other too much" . I'll also tell him how it made me feel but that I understand.

Thankyou good people for your words of wisdom, this feels like there is so MUCH to learn.

Tracy
 
thanks for this dave

I'm sure it's got its roots in the all too commn survivor trait of "I am shit, so I'll make sure that I feel like shit"

This is an issue for my husband and it will do me good to remember that sometimes he just feels shit and thats that. He's only just beginning to understand that too instead of fighting tooth and nail with me to prove that he's right even when i suspect he knows he's been out of order! He can have a take no prisoners approach to even minor issues much like the breakfast scenario above (I'm with you on that one!)

It will help me to not be as offended or upset by his behaviour. In turn maybe he will be able to set me loose sometimes and not always take me prisoner!

as i am finding often when visiting this site-at least its not just us!
Thanks loads
 
[Survivors] may use hostility to protect themselves from expected rejection by rejecting others first.
OMG! This has so triggered me in ways I never thought possible!! ALL my friendships, ALL OF THEM, have ended this exact way, most especially with women!

This is such a revelation, because I can now focus to understanding why I do it. I've got to remember to tell my therapist about this tomorrow.

This entire thread basically summarizes my life and my reactions towards all those who ever got close to me in one way or another. I've ALWAYS felt worthless even before my victimization 12 years ago, and that will be something more to focus on with my therapist tomorrow. There's something deeply rooted, and I'll need a crane to unroot it because it's just beyond my perception of myself, almost within grasp, whatever "IT" is. I can feel it...

MR
 
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