Love?

Love?
R

Ron_dup1

Registrant
I am really nervous about posting this but I have seen you guys be very supportive in the past and this is really dragging me down so here it goes. I hope I don't offend or trigger anyone, please know that is not my intent!! I am just seeking answers and thought some of you might be able to help.

Okay my therapist asked me to come back with 3 responses I might have if I could stand face to face with my abuser. 1, passive 2, assertive 3, aggressive. As I worked through this assignment I found the first two very easy but the third impossible. As I tried and tried to get angry and aggressive I simply could not and then it dawned on me. I love him! Oh My God!! Yes this man abused me but at the time he was the most stable and loving person in my life and I loved him very much and I guess in a strange way I still do.
I have never had a hard time saying he abused me. And I can get angry about the effect that abuse has had on my life, but this was the first time that I saw his face and thought "he is a child abuser"!
It is really freaking me out. If that is what I idealized as love for all these years no wonder I have never had a relationship that worked!
I am very sad today because the one person I felt loved me as a child is gone. I feel like I have two options. 1, he really did love me just was messed up and didn't know how to show it appropriately, or 2, he never loved me at all and it was all just manipulation to use me to get off. I don't like either option. I don't like the fact that I have had to come to terms with the fact that the "hero" of my childhood is a child molester! I don't like the fact that I have no idea at this point what real love is or if I have ever experienced it (outside of my relationship with God).
Am I just stupid or what? How could I have never seen the connection? It was such a shock to me when I realized that the one person whom I had idealized and whom I had loved was the very same person that had caused such pain in my life for all these years. It was like I had completely seperated the two, the loving man and the abusing man into two people in the same body. Wow I think I am really loosing it! or maybe I just never had it :-)
I hope all this made sense - I just kind of typed as the thoughts came because there is no order to them at this point. Any constructive criticizm is greatly appreciated. Just please don't slam me for saying I loved my perp. I am having a hard enough time with that one already.
Thanks,
Ron
 
I felt the same way about my brother. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that it didnt matter what i felt for him, i could not allow him to keep pretending like nothing happened. It is okay to be angry with someone you care about, but you have to confront it and deal with it. Its okay to love them, even after what they did to you, there is no reason to be ashamed.
 
I know what you mean Ron. I loved them both.

But the word is loved. Past tense. Now I alternate between disgust and great pity and sorrow for them, but I understand what you mean. I don't think I would feel sorrow for them if I didn't still care or love then in some way.

It is precisely because of the emotional attachment and the betrayal that we get so f*cked up. I don't mean to minimize anyone else's pain or feelings, but abuse and assault by a stranger doesn't carry these emotional overtones and complications.

It's OK to love them for any good they did and any good qualities they had, and maybe, maybe, such love could even lead to forgiveness, but it can never be an excuse for the horrible decisions they made and the things they did.

Just my opinions.

Donald
 
:mad:
My perp tortured and abused me for 3 to 4 years. He was brutal and there was nothing loving about it at all.
But, I have read about men who were abused by their father or someone whom they loved a great deal.
It seems very odd to me, but apparently a man can truly believe that as he is using the body of a child he loves and who loves him, he really sees it as a "special kind of love."
I would suppose that in doing the sexual act he is kind, gentle and tells the child that he loves him very much. The child believes it or wants to believe it.
Then, sex and "love" become synonymous for the child. And, it appears for most of us, it sets up a need for us to have male love and intimacy even though we may see ourselves and in fact be heterosexual. We can still feel the need for the love of a male to satisfy our emotional needs and perhaps even our physical needs.
That seems to be to make a difference. My perp beat the hell out of me, kicked me and chocked me until I nealr lost consciousness. I suspect he had some special hatred for me. So, now, I see sex as a violent thing, not at all a part of love.I do not have adult friends and especially not many male friends. I just do not trust men. Still I have a constant ache in me to hold and be held by a young lad or a man about the age of the perp which I think is around 24 to 27.
I don't know if that helps. I do know, that before I was sodomised I thought that my perpe was the most handsome, well built guy
god ever created. I wanted to be close to him. Then, he nearly killed me. I think I am probably among the world's ten most messed up men when it comes to sexuality.
Anyway Ron and Brain and all. Depending on the situation and how you were treated, I could see you loving the perp and trying to believe that sick as it was, it was his way of showing love more than his way of getting his own orgasm.
Bob
 
Ron,

You ended your post with a thanks, I say thank you for bringing this one up.

Some background.. My real dad was a drunk and very abusive, the divorce came when i was five, i was sure it was my fault. Stepdad showed up almost right away, i was determined not to lose another dad so i did anything and everything. At first there were some good times, which is more than i ever had before, he was also a drunk and violent, but he also did bring some good stuff to the table. I was used to getting hit, so it was not such a big deal. The sexual abuse started around ten, at first it was not hurtful, over time he got mean and it got real bad, real hurtful. I moved out when i was fifteen realizing if i stayed i would probably die.

I have had such conflicting feelings over this. The only way i could make my peace with it was to see the different feelings as coming from different parts of me.

There is a little boy still inside of me that remembers the good times and does love him. That little kid is still waiting for his *dad* to come back and tell him it was all a big mistake and that everything is ok. The abandonment is tough on him, he doesnt undertsand.

There is another part of me that realized at some point that he never loved me, that it was about him getting his rocks off, that part of me feels used and abused. That part of me hates him. The betrayal is the biggee for this part,, it hurt then and it hurts now.

There is still another part of me that is a bit older and wiser, this part hates what he did to me, misses the good stuff, wonders how it ever got to the point it did, and is grateful i am alive. The loss of trust and hope is what this part struggles with, trying so hard to believe in people and trust that there are some nice people out there that are good and can relate to and understand me.

The adult m of today looks back at it all, appreciates the good things that were there, is very very sad about all the hurts, gets real angry at times cus i am the one who got left to clean up the mess he made in my life, and has pretty much made some sort of peace with the whole thing. i am still uncovering areas where my life has been impacted by this stuff and still working my way through it all, its like a damn never ending story for me. I have come an awfully long way, its been interesting.

It took me a good while to figure how to get the different parts to be able to live together inside of me.

I hope your being nice to yourself, after all we were all just little boys.

Hugs to ya,, your allright, keep talking, it will get better, kk

John
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and for sharing your stories. I felt sick to my stomache as I logged on to see what you all would have to say. Much to my surprise and delight you said exactly what I needed to hear. I AM NOT ALONE! I know it seems silly when all I have ever found here is understanding and support but this topic scares me to death and is confusing as hell!
Brian-Z your response really hit home with me -
I loved my perpetrator. That's all there is to it. My childhood really sucked, my father abandoned me, my mother basically did the same.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
My father was never around because he was always at work trying to support our family. I know he worked hard and with 4 kids and an alocoholic wife I'm sure it wasn't easy but the fact is he just wasn't there much!
My mother is an alcoholic and drug abuser. She was there but it was all about her! We spent our days catering to her every need and trying desperately not to upset her, which was and still is impossible! When I was 9 one of my father's friends lost his job and his wife divorced him and so he came to live with us. Finally I had a man in the house. He would pick me up from school, listen to me tell the stories of my day, take me to the store, etc. He was the parent that I had always wanted! I idealized him and wanted to spend as much time as possible with him. I felt good about myself when I was with him and that had never happened for me with anyone, anywhere. The sexual part of our relationship developed slowly and was always gentle, kind and "loving". I had NO idea that it was wrong or inappropriate. He did tell me that we shouldn't tell anyone about that part of it but I thought it was so my "real" parents would not be jealous or something. It hurts to realize that he manipulated me and used me. I loved him so much and thought he was perfect. I am really having a hard time reconciling all these thoughts and memories with the facts as I see them now.
John thank you for your comment:
The adult me of today looks back at it all, appreciates the good things that were there, is very very sad about all the hurts, gets real angry at times cus i am the one who got left to clean up the mess he made in my life
Click to expand...
that pretty much sums up how I feel today
Thanks for listening
Ron
 
No Ron, you are not stupid. You are asking yourself some very important questions. It seems like this project from your therapist can be of real help to you.

Ron, I am not going to slam you. Dealing with the aftermath of sexual abuse is a very tough thing to do. I know this from first had experience my friend. Do not be too tough on yourself right now. And, trust in your therapist. Good luck and good healing. Sincerely,

rafael :)
 
Hi Ron,

For me it is important to remember that my abuse occurred to myself as an unformed, immature human being. I was a child forming a sense of me based on my experiences. That my experiences were with people who were damaged and very unhealthy for me to be around means I formed tragically distorted ideas of love, sex, trust, boundaries, limits....

Today, I'm beginning to understand the most important person I have to trust is myself. And, that is still my main focus, as I continue to work through the misconceptions of my youth. Just this week I have had a breakthrough. I now understand I have always believed my only choices were for me to accommodate others, or for others to accommodate me. I am suddenly understanding it is my job to determine what is right for me, and just do that. Only now at 65 am I beginning to see how the malformed ideas and beliefs from my childhood abuse have kept me believing who I am is contingent on others.

So, at this point, love is a concept that is mine to define for myself. And, it is still a work in progress. However, my notion of love includes that it does not diminish myself or others in any way.

Sending you love and support,

Don
 
Ron -

I didn't have any relationship with the man that raped me. He did think that he only helped me get off since I finished - and acted like he did me a great favor.

There is a small similarity here - even though this man didn't love me - he thought he did me a favor. He talked like we were buddies afterward. But the fact remains that he is a predator. Predators are not to be loved. Predators cannot be trusted. The bunny that tries to live amongst the wolves doesn't fair too well.

I can't help but look at this statement you made "As I tried and tried to get angry and aggressive I simply could not and then it dawned on me. I love him!" and think that the conclusion you draw is straight fallacy. A logical conclusion is "As I tried and tried to get angry and aggressive I simply could not and then it dawned on me. I love him! But then realized that I was so damaged that I really don't understand what love is"

Its like the tried-and-true Hollywood story where the woman is in love with the man that beats her and then either realizes the foolishness and saves herself - or is pushed to the edge and kills him.
 
Just please don't slam me for saying I loved my perp. I am having a hard enough time with that one already.
Click to expand...
Ron - you posted this twelve years ago, so your eyes may not see all the responses, but others will, and that perhaps adds some value to my efforts in writing this.

I loved my perp, too. Not romantically or sexually. The love I had for him did not translate that way. But I endured it and held out, hoping things would be normal again. I recently saw him again all these years later - and my disgust for what he did still does not translate so easily into hate, anger and aggression. That I did not immediately launch into him - hit him, yell at him, scream - what does that say about me? Many others here at MS would certainly have vented. Perhaps a better man would have indulged the natural rage that somehow I cannot access within myself.

But I think that a quieter perspective can be a norm for some of us. Hate and anger are always the loudest voices. And as they shout around us, we stay hidden, having not owned our bodies, our destinies or our integrity. And when the louder voices around us suggest what we should feel, we realize we don't even own the indignation we are supposed to have.

I won't even try to explain why - just to say you are definitely not alone. Because some of us have a harder time tapping into the anger does not mean for a minute that the crimes against us were any less, nor that our responses are any less appropriate.
 
Wow I was just reading the post. I am amazed how much support those that responded here have given over the 12 years. You are to be commended. I did not realize MS had been around for so long. I am glad it has been.

I read those words, I learned a part of me, a part I did not accept or recognize within myself, had a feeling of being special to my abuser. My T had said this is not uncommon to have these feelings. The abuser manipulates our mind in a way we do not understand. For me, I would dissociate and that part of me would somehow be there, seeing safety in the abuse or the abuser. As I came to recognize these feelings I was disgusted with myself and despised that part of me even more. It was wrong of me and it wreaked havoc on my life, allowing that part of me to take over as I retreated into some dissociative state.

Freeing myself of the abuse and realizing that part of me only wanted love, and it did not get it from me within. I tried to bury that part of me, I guess as I was not as successful as I thought I had been. Now I have learned to love all of me and the feelings of being special to the abuser can no longer be found.
 
I can't even read all of these responses right now. There is a lot of heavy stuff here. Even the idea of imagining the three different ways to respond scares me. I know I was passive, but I have a hard time imaginingr anything else. In my case, I, too love my abusers, and I think they loved me. This is part of the confusion. I feel like if I call it abuse, that discounts the love that was there, or that if I talk about love, then the abuse didn't happen. I will say this, though, I am colder towwards them then I used to be. I don't even know if I miss my mother. I can admire some of her good points, which she did have, but I don't miss her. And my brother I'm hardly in touch with. So, I don't know.
 
learning - i had a huge breakthrough with my T when i realized that is it possible to be angry with someone and still love them. up until a year ago i thought that the two were mutually exclusive. the perp i had the most experience with - step-dad - was always angry toward me and never loving. as a result, when my wife became angry with me, i was sure that i had lost her love. and i felt like a terrible son when i became angry with my mom for passively allowing the abuse to continue for years. i thought that meant i did not love her. and when i became angry with God for letting my life be the way it was, i was sure i would be eternally rejected by Him. my fear of my wife's rejection and abandonment also led me to lie and conceal my past for a long time because i had felt some anger from her in reaction to the limited amount i had already shared.

once i discovered that love and anger can co-exist, it was a huge revelation that freed me up immensely. it allowed me to own and experience anger appropriately. and it allowed me to be more honest with my wife and with God. it makes things complicated - but also is a proof of our resiliency and adaptability as humans.

maybe i am just talking for myself, but maybe it might help...
Lee
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Chase Eric said:
But I think that a quieter perspective can be a norm for some of us. Hate and anger are always the loudest voices. And as they shout around us, we stay hidden, having not owned our bodies, our destinies or our integrity. And when the louder voices around us suggest what we should feel, we realize we don't even own the indignation we are supposed to have.
Click to expand...
Thank you Eiric for making a quieter way OK.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top