Love vs the unknown

Love vs the unknown

BULNSC

Registrant
Hello to all the MS with wives or significant other,

The truth has been out now for a while. My MS states he is not gay. He says he wants help. He says he does not want a divorce. Even though it has been tough to face and endure, I chose to stay and love and encourage him through this process. I do not want to dwell on the past. However, we both have work to do. I don’t want to make any more mistakes between us.

since the internet and his cell were the ways he was acting out, I cut those items out. It is not with the intent to control him. He is a grown man. However,I wanted to feel safe. Also important to note that he agreed to those two items being cut off when “it” was discovered. When I discovered the issue, he claimed he had only been looking at it for a few months. So with time and a little counseling, I gradually added back with content restrictions, etc. He promised me he would let me know if he would open up his account with email. So he didn’t “know” his email pw so he says. I every now and the would check his phone for anything that might suggest contrary to what we agreed upon.

When “it” was discovered he claimed that he did not have an “issue with porn”. I doubted it because it just doesn’t all of a sudden appear.

since I have found this site, I have come to better understand certain aspects of how the sexual trauma manifests itself. Just prior to finding this site a few weeks ago, I discovered that he did have his email on his phone. He claims that he just got it opened up. In looking through his email, I discovered he had been on Craig’s list as far back as 2015. I asked him about it and he said he didn’t “remember “. Anyhow, he continues to state that he is not gay. He accepts responsibility for it. He does want help and reiterated he does not want a divorce and is not gay. He has the option to do in patient to work through his trauma. He is a vet and it is vet related. He said he is concerned about in patient treatment because of the stigma from being admitted into a psych unit. He said it would be all over his medical record, etc. I have explained to him it is not his fault that his male sexual assault happened and the things he has done are acting out. I let him know it is just to help him process his trauma. I asked him if he beat himself up about all of it and he said yes. Then he honestly shared fears.

Honestly, if in fact he is gay, so be it. Let’s just get a divorce. He says no.

The latest discovery today is that I know when he activated his email( it wasn’t recent) and I also saw on his phone that he downloaded a gay chat site back to the date when we bought the phone. He says he has not used it and does not know where it came from. Uh ok??? So some gremlin opened up the App Store and downloaded it?? I don’t think so.

It has taken a lot for me to stay. It is very scary for me. I do love him. I want to trust him. I don’t want to keep reliving the garbage. How can I better help him and help myself? The pain is real.

Any suggestions? I feel like I just want to be alone for a few days.
 
He 'could' have DID Link for what that is. . Or could be disassociating in general. That would make sense with all the 'I dont know how that got there'. Or I don't remember. But if thats the case. He needs to seek professional help. DID doesn't go away. You just learn to deal with it. Cope. Find some sense of control with...'them. Alters.

It could be something else entirely, but that was what I instantly thought when you described how he doesn't remember how it got there..

I'm not good at giving advice. So I'll stop there.
 
Also, very sorry that you are going through this. I know it can be difficult from both sides.

The fact that he says he wants help, is a good thing though. Its really difficult to get someone the help they need, if they don't want it, or aren't ready for it.

I know, for alot of us (MS) sexuality is a really difficult subject. I struggle with gay /straight as well. My entire timeline is skewed because of my CSA. I will NEVER know exactly who I am, because of what was taken / lost in my childhood.

It has been stressful. Chaotic. Uncertain. Isolating...and a million other....negatives...

But ...there can be light at the end of tunnel.

It just takes alot of hard work.

Be kind to yourself.
Take care of yourself.
 
A lot of us male survivors have issues with control and powerlessness, since we were made to do things against our wills. While your MS ceded all control of his use of the internet to you with his words, it's likely his spirit had other ideas - and this very likely would not even be a conscious thing.

Any man can step out on his partner. It sounds like the issue for you is more that he might be doing it with men than that he may be stepping out at all. It sounds like it is mainly YOU who is hung up about his sexuality. It can take years and even decades for some of us to figure it out. Some of us decide not to put labels on our sexuality at all. If YOU have issues with what he sexually fantasizes about and the kind of porn he watches in private, maybe you have some work to do on yourself.

You might want to consider that you and he are just not a good fit together.
 
Dear strange ways, I am not uncomfortable with his sexuality. I only am looking for transparency. I am ok with him one way or the other. I am looking for transparency so i can make my own choices. He states he wants his marriage to me. I know he has trauma and I do not want to end my marriage because of trauma. Love is not superficial. You stand with a person and work through things. I have gone to counseling. I know the two options; either he will get help or won’t and I can either stay or leave. It is not ok for a person to hurt another by violating their trust personal space and sense of self like what all of you MS have suffered. It is not ok for someone who loves another to keep doing things that hurt and perpetuate things that are known to be harmful. Seeking counseling and getting help is where healing and recovery take place for a couple.
 
As I survivor myself, and someone who has struggled mightily with some acting out years ago, I feel that the trauma and and the transparency you want are at odds. You deserve transparency, any healthy relationship requires it, the trauma and the shame of your partner are a block to transparency. It seems to me he wants to be with you, wants to be transparent, but the shame and the self-hatred block that. When I was in the hospital for PTSD and depression related to my CSA by a priest, I learned in group therapy that that shame is super toxic, and sharing daily with my group and hearing their stories, helped me to dissolve some of that shame. Group therapy for him might be a good path.
 
Yes he says he wants me. I know it takes time. I told him I understand the shame he carries. There is power in speaking it and telling your story. But first one must be ready. I think he is ready but there is fear. I don’t want to fight and I want to heal. He wants it too but only he can take the steps.
You are asking to be inside his head. This seems like the opposite of healthy and healing.
No I don’t. Please dont assume. I am hurting. I am on the other side. I know the MS are hurting too. I can appreciate that. I want healthy relationship.
 
As I survivor myself, and someone who has struggled mightily with some acting out years ago, I feel that the trauma and and the transparency you want are at odds. You deserve transparency, any healthy relationship requires it, the trauma and the shame of your partner are a block to transparency. It seems to me he wants to be with you, wants to be transparent, but the shame and the self-hatred block that. When I was in the hospital for PTSD and depression related to my CSA by a priest, I learned in group therapy that that shame is super toxic, and sharing daily with my group and hearing their stories, helped me to dissolve some of that shame. Group therapy for him might be a good path.
I appreciate your comments. I know he has to do his part. I know it takes time. I just don’t want to hurt.
 
I know about the hurt. And it seems he's causing it. And the uncertainty and the dishonesty. We, survivors, do a lot of things that we are deeply ashamed of, and we have to at some level take responsibility for healing. It's not fair, we didn't ask for this, it wasn't our fault. But we need to take active steps to healing...it won't just happen. Fear is a very strong block to this. Plus, it seems he has great fear of losing you, so it saying the things that you want to hear...but he's not changing. I would strongly suggest group therapy for him, a place to see that he's not alone, can find some comfort in hearing other stories, release that shame and guilt.
 
Michael07, Yes, thank you. Why would he endure the pressure and stress that we have between us if he did not love me? I know he is battling two kinds of fear. I am trying to be brave, stand in the gap, and support him. I am holding on to unconditional love.

I am in a whirlwind and I can’t see or hear anything. I just wish I could show him what it would be like on the other side of healing from the shame and regret of things lost. Every single person who goes through therapy for healing is brave.

thanks you for understanding my end. It is very much appreciated.

I am sorry we had to meet because of MS in you life experience. I wish you and the MS on this site well and continued healing on your journey. No one should have to experience traumatic events such as this.
 
Any suggestions? I feel like I just want to be alone for a few days.

((( @BULNSC )))

You need that hug. A bunch of hugs. And empathy for your pain. I am all too aware of this because it sounds like you're in a position very similar to the one my wife was in when I had my breakdown, confessed my acting out to her, and started confronting my CSA (or rather, had my mind force me to start confronting it). She felt so hugely betrayed, so unsafe.

We'd been together 20 years at that point, and it was as if the man she'd thought she'd been married to all that time had turned out to be an illusion. While my acting out was in fact a consequence of my abuse, and not something I felt as if I had any control over -- certainly couldn't stop -- it was also unfortunately a behavior I willingly engaged in over a long period of time, never seeking help, never trying to stop, despite how ashamed I was of it, and how aware I was of the damage I was doing to my life. There were moments when I was close to suicide, because that seemed like the only way to kill the monster. All through it, I had lies I told myself that I believed in order to make the whole double-life thing sustainable: "as long as I just 'manage' this thing, I'll be fine," "if nobody suspects anything then it's the same as if nothing happened," "there's no way to change this so I'd better 'protect' her by keeping it secret," "if I kill myself it will just make her life easier by lifting off a burden," etc., etc. Those lies, which I believed entirely myself, and in fact needed to believe in order to continue doing the acting-out behaviors that made it possible for me to avoid confronting the full reality of the extent to which my abuse had wounded me, led me to gaslight my wife in ways that I now recognize were toxic and deeply hurtful.

For my wife, the aftermath of my confession was not pretty. The term in the psychiatric literature is "betrayal trauma." The great irony, of course, is that the "betrayal trauma" I suffered is what led me to create the situation in which my wife suffered hers. I am working every day to change and be a better person in hopes that at some point down the line I'll earn her authentic forgiveness. I'm deeply grateful that she loves me enough to support me in my efforts to earn that. Because I love her, and in fact have always loved her, it's important to me to prove to myself that I can actually learn to be the husband I've wanted to be for her from the very beginning.

From the way you describe your husband's behavior, especially the lying to cover things up, it sounds to me like he really needs help. What's going on is a compulsion, that is, a behavior over which he has no control, even if at this point he thinks he's actually holding it all together. Probably the only way he'll be able to stop is to give up trying to "take care of things on his own" and reach out to others for support. There's a group of psychologists who call the problem your husband has "a sex addiction," though in the field there's a lot of debate about the right label to put on it. I think the label thing is beside the point, personally. It's enough that it's a self-destructive behavior one cannot control, even though one hates oneself for engaging in it and desperately wishes to stop. That's how my compulsion has worked...and in my own case imagining it as a "behavioral addiction" has been helpful, mostly because there are an array of treatments out there for that problem, and they can work if you're ready for them.

What I'd really encourage your husband to do is go talk to a therapist. In addition, maybe after some consultations, he might want to consider attending the meetings of a group such as Sex Addicts Anonymous (you can find information about meetings near you online). SAA won't help him deal with the abuse trauma -- that's what the therapist is for -- but it could help him let go of the compulsive sexual behavior and the lying that goes along with it.

Inpatient treatment, in my experience, isn't that effective for these issues, because it doesn't really help the addict/compulsive deal with day-to-day life. The challenge is figuring out new ways to cope with the unexpected stressors ("triggers," they're often called) that just kind of happen as we live our lives. For me, for instance, rejection was a big trigger, as were being criticized, feeling like I'd failed at something, being resentful of having to do something. These are just part of everyday experience, so in my opinion learning to deal with them in ways that don't involve acting out is also best done in a context of continuing to live day to day in a normal way. I've seen a few people return from month-long inpatient rehab programs convinced they are "cured," only to fall right back into things once regular life throws them yet another curve ball.

In terms of how you and he might work on your relationship together and try to rebuild trust, I can recommend three books that you might want to take a look at:

Hall, Paula. Sex Addiction: A Guide for Couples and Those who Help Them. London: Routledge, 2019.

Hall, Paula. Understanding and Treating Sex and Pornography Addiction. London: Routledge, 2018.

Sheets, Carol J. and Allan J. Katz. Help Her Heal: An Empathy Workbook for Sex Addicts to Help Their Partners Heal. Long Beach: Sano Press, 2019.


I do have one caveat, though. In my experience, to stop compulsive acting out of this type, the person doing the acting out has to both truly want to change and be ready to change. This can be a real sticking point. Most people end up in "treatment" for compulsive sexual behavior because they have been caught. That might or might not coincide with being actually ready to stop. This is where a therapist can really help, and why I'd urge your husband to start seeing somebody before trying a 12-step group or anything like that.

Once again: ((( ))). This is tough. It will hurt. But it will also get better if your husband's on board. It could even leave you with a richer relationship than you had before.

Yours,
Nick
 
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Oh, you are welcome. I've been through the ringer, you can see some of my other posts on here from the last few months about a relationship breakup, verbal and emotional abuse, deep attachment and the loss that has lead to PTSD- many months without sleep, losing 20 pounds, crazy ruminating thinking, suicidal thinking (but no actions). Through all my struggles, I've learned to be open and vulnerable, and that ultimately is good. I feel for people in pain, and believe in community support. I hope another user on here I've become virtual friends with sees your post, she has been going through something very similar to what you are going through......her posts are under the name Mojo. I've tried to help her understand the mind of a victim, and she has helped me understand verbal and emotional abuse.
 
Nick, thank you for being open to sharing your experience. I am hopeful for a richer relationship. He wants to but has fear plus he doesn’t like the idea of being in group. However, he knows he does not want to go on the way things are in the home. Nor do I for that matter.

Thank tou
 
Nick, thank you for being open to sharing your experience. I am hopeful for a richer relationship. He wants to but has fear plus he doesn’t like the idea of being in group. However, he knows he does not want to go on the way things are in the home. Nor do I for that matter.

Thank tou
Thank you for the book suggestions
 
Oh, you are welcome. I've been through the ringer, you can see some of my other posts on here from the last few months about a relationship breakup, verbal and emotional abuse, deep attachment and the loss that has lead to PTSD- many months without sleep, losing 20 pounds, crazy ruminating thinking, suicidal thinking (but no actions). Through all my struggles, I've learned to be open and vulnerable, and that ultimately is good. I feel for people in pain, and believe in community support. I hope another user on here I've become virtual friends with sees your post, she has been going through something very similar to what you are going through......her posts are under the name Mojo. I've tried to help her understand the mind of a victim, and she has helped me understand verbal and emotional abuse.
I will look her up. Thanks
 
Also, very sorry that you are going through this. I know it can be difficult from both sides.

The fact that he says he wants help, is a good thing though. Its really difficult to get someone the help they need, if they don't want it, or aren't ready for it.

I know, for alot of us (MS) sexuality is a really difficult subject. I struggle with gay /straight as well. My entire timeline is skewed because of my CSA. I will NEVER know exactly who I am, because of what was taken / lost in my childhood.

It has been stressful. Chaotic. Uncertain. Isolating...and a million other....negatives...

But ...there can be light at the end of tunnel.

It just takes alot of hard work.

Be kind to yourself.
Take care of yourself.
Thank you
 
He wants to but has fear plus he doesn’t like the idea of being in group.

Am I ever familiar with that! I was terrified of the prospect of being in a group too. Never thought I'd do it. Couldn't imagine doing it. It took me months in individual therapy before I got up the courage to go to my first meeting. This is part of why a good therapist is really the key first step: someone he can talk to in total confidence, who'll give him guidance as he figures out what's going on. The group issue, in my opinion, is for later.
 
((( @BULNSC )))

You need that hug. A bunch of hugs. And empathy for your pain. I am all too aware of this because it sounds like you're in a position very similar to the one my wife was in when I had my breakdown, confessed my acting out to her, and started confronting my CSA (or rather, had my mind force me to start confronting it). She felt so hugely betrayed, so unsafe.

We'd been together 20 years at that point, and it was as if the man she'd thought she'd been married to all that time had turned out to be an illusion. While my acting out was in fact a consequence of my abuse, and not something I felt as if I had any control over -- certainly couldn't stop -- it was also unfortunately a behavior I willingly engaged in over a long period of time, never seeking help, never trying to stop, despite how ashamed I was of it, and how aware I was of the damage I was doing to my life. There were moments when I was close to suicide, because that seemed like the only way to kill the monster. All through it, I had lies I told myself that I believed in order to make the whole double-life thing sustainable: "as long as I just 'manage' this thing, I'll be fine," "if nobody suspects anything then it's the same as if nothing happened," "there's no way to change this so I'd better 'protect' her by keeping it secret," "if I kill myself it will just make her life easier by lifting off a burden," etc., etc. Those lies, which I believed entirely myself, and in fact needed to believe in order to continue doing the acting-out behaviors that made it possible for me to avoid confronting the full reality of the extent to which my abuse had wounded me, led me to gaslight my wife in ways that I now recognize were toxic and deeply hurtful.

For my wife, the aftermath of my confession was not pretty. The term in the psychiatric literature is "betrayal trauma." The great irony, of course, is that the "betrayal trauma" I suffered is what led me to create the situation in which my wife suffered hers. I am working every day to change and be a better person in hopes that at some point down the line I'll earn her authentic forgiveness. I'm deeply grateful that she loves me enough to support me in my efforts to earn that. Because I love her, and in fact have always loved her, it's important to me to prove to myself that I can actually learn to be the husband I've wanted to be for her from the very beginning.

From the way you describe your husband's behavior, especially the lying to cover things up, it sounds to me like he really needs help. What's going on is a compulsion, that is, a behavior over which he has no control, even if at this point he thinks he's actually holding it all together. Probably the only way he'll be able to stop is to give up trying to "take care of things on his own" and reach out to others for support. There's a group of psychologists who call the problem your husband has "a sex addiction," though in the field there's a lot of debate about the right label to put on it. I think the label thing is beside the point, personally. It's enough that it's a self-destructive behavior one cannot control, even though one hates oneself for engaging in it and desperately wishes to stop. That's how my compulsion has worked...and in my own case imagining it as a "behavioral addiction" has been helpful, mostly because there are an array of treatments out there for that problem, and they can work if you're ready for them.

What I'd really encourage your husband to do is go talk to a therapist. In addition, maybe after some consultations, he might want to consider attending the meetings of a group such as Sex Addicts Anonymous (you can find information about meetings near you online). SAA won't help him deal with the abuse trauma -- that's what the therapist is for -- but it could help him let go of the compulsive sexual behavior and the lying that goes along with it.

Inpatient treatment, in my experience, isn't that effective for these issues, because it doesn't really help the addict/compulsive deal with day-to-day life. The challenge is figuring out new ways to cope with the unexpected stressors ("triggers," they're often called) that just kind of happen as we live our lives. For me, for instance, rejection was a big trigger, as were being criticized, feeling like I'd failed at something, being resentful of having to do something. These are just part of everyday experience, so in my opinion learning to deal with them in ways that don't involve acting out is also best done in a context of continuing to live day to day in a normal way. I've seen a few people return from month-long inpatient rehab programs convinced they are "cured," only to fall right back into things once regular life throws them yet another curve ball.

In terms of how you and he might work on your relationship together and try to rebuild trust, I can recommend three books that you might want to take a look at:

Hall, Paula. Sex Addiction: A Guide for Couples and Those who Help Them. London: Routledge, 2019.

Hall, Paula. Understanding and Treating Sex and Pornography Addiction. London: Routledge, 2018.

Sheets, Carol J. and Allan J. Katz. Help Her Heal: An Empathy Workbook for Sex Addicts to Help Their Partners Heal. Long Beach: Sano Press, 2019.


I do have one caveat, though. In my experience, to stop compulsive acting out of this type, the person doing the acting out has to both truly want to change and be ready to change. This can be a real sticking point. Most people end up in "treatment" for compulsive sexual behavior because they have been caught. That might or might not coincide with being actually ready to stop. This is where a therapist can really help, and why I'd urge your husband to start seeing somebody before trying a 12-step group or anything like that.

Once again: ((( ))). This is tough. It will hurt. But it will also get better if your husband's on board. It could even leave you with a richer relationship than you had before.

Yours,
Nick

Nick,

What you are describing so mirrors my own life with my CSA husband. He was abused for a decade by his parish priest and also sex trafficked. Like BULNSC I too am trying to come to terms and understand it all. Per my husband, he is finally at the point of stopping and healing. This was after 3 years of therapy and continuing reaching out and viewing porn, etc. He started therapy because his behavior was out of control and he was caught. I did not know of his abuse until that time (nor did I know he had been caught by his brother) and we had been married 25 years. To say that I felt like your wife did is an understatement. Last September was the final straw. He had been in therapy for 3 years and I caught him messaging someone about his "fantasies and how he couldn't wait to share them with this person". I had had enough and was ready to leave. I had been standing by his side for 28 years with the last 3 of them helping him with his journey and trying to give him the trust. That was all taken away and I am not sure if it is unrepairable. We are still working on it and will be married 29 years next week. It is a journey and it doesn't happen overnight. I am hopeful as you state that we will have a richer relationship. I am just cautious and unsure right now. I do understand much of what he and you did was a compulsion as a result of his abuse and the way you felt he has said the same thing. Thank you for sharing your story and I wish you and your wife much happiness.
 
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