Lord help me tonight-on edge of cliff

Lord help me tonight-on edge of cliff

Brokenhearted

Registrant
I just need to talk to you guys. I'm feeling so panicky again all of a sudden and am so close to talking to my older brother about what is going on. I can't see my counselor till Friday and no one in my family has a clue what I've been dealing w/ for 6 months.

I just want to pick up the phone and call my oldest brother. And shout, "He doesn't feel anything! After 14 yrs of marriage and a precious daughter I could leave today with her and he probably would let us go because he is NUMB!!!!" And tell all about his abuse history and how it affects people.

It is just insane that it might come down to that, us leaving, since I cannot live with a robot who has no feelings for me, forever. And I'm so upset about him throwing the books away that I had bought. I was only hoping he'd open a book maybe in a YEAR or so, was willing to give him that long to even open one, but looks like he never will now. Looks like he's made his mind up.

He used to love me, he used to show affection, he used to be playful with me and at times romantic. Now he's a robot who has no feelings whatsoever. WHY DID THIS CHANGE? WHY DOES HE NOT FEEL ANYTHING AFTER 14 HAPPY YRS??? I don't understand....is it because he has to work harder to suppress the bad feelings of the abuse so he numbs out everything? Why does he have to work harder now? Why do these feelings surface after 3 decades???? I don't understand!

I honestly don't know if I can DEAL if it comes down to us leaving and breaking up my little baby daughter's home, and my husband not even caring. I don't think I can DEAL with that. I think it might send me over the edge.

Why do I get to feel all this? And he gets to "not care"? I feel like I need morphine right now to dull MY pain!!!

This is so hard, so hard. Sometimes I feel like you guys are all I have. I want so much to talk to my brother but then I know he does not have the understanding/education I have about abuse and he would not understand. He would wonder if my husband's on drugs or something, he would not understand why he wouldn't care about us, why he would feel nothing. I guess I probably CAN'T talk to him. This is tearing me up inside and I can't even tell anyone in my family about the hell I've been living.

I am so heartbroken and in pain. I don't know what I expect any of you all to say, just that you're there and listening. My little girl just came to sit by me and asked me what I'm writing.

I have to go.
 
BH,
Im sure your husband does care about you and your little girl. He is in a bad place right now. Immagine your worst fear/anxiety and mulitply it by 10. I immagine that is how our husbands feel. It doesn't make sense to us but they are not doing this on purpose.
What is your worst fear? Immagine if everytime you touched your husband that worst fear came into your head and you couldn't get rid of it. Immagine the shame/self hatred that you would feel if you caused the people you love the most severe pain.
Coming to the realization of how hard it is to be a surviver does not make it any easier on us. We still have the feeling of no control Understanding what is happening and dealing with it are 2 different things.
It sounds like things are really rough for you right now. I'm sorry. Your husband isn't doing it on purpose. But I don't know how long this will last and if or when he will get better.
I too feel isolated at times and wish to talk to someone but I don't think anyone in my family or friends would understand. Maybe you could ask your husband if he was okay with you talking to someone in your family. Then you wouldn't feel guilty. I would recomend giving that person in your family one of the books to read so maybe they would understand better.
 
WW, when you say "Immagine the shame/self hatred that you would feel if you caused the people you love the most severe pain." -- I doubt he knows how much pain this is causing me. If he knew, would he care?

My counselor has said it may come down to me needing to push, meaning he may have to be forced to realize how this is hurting not just him, that he may lose us b/c of it.

I've been feeling stable for a while now, optimistic and hopeful, thinking I could stick it out, but just to imagine the scene of a moving van pulling up and us leaving, and him not caring, is TOO MUCH for me to think about.

Also will his numbness only increase with time? Is this something that needs to be remedied sooner than later or it gets even worse? (How can he be more numb than he is now?) Should I push sooner rather than wait in case I'm wasting precious time and he could get even more numb with time???

Are there any survivors here that lost their spouse/kids/family and continued to be numb through THAT???? Or was it a wakeup call and you decided to work on issues to keep them??? I cannot imagine anyone, no matter how numb, letting go of everyone that ever mattered to them, so indifferently.
 
Also wanted to say you made me feel better when you said "Im sure your husband does care about you and your little girl. He is in a bad place right now." -- so should I tell him that no matter how much pain this causes me he's not getting rid of me no matter what? Is this a "kill 'em with kindness" kind of thing , where the love and mercy I give him will eventually soften his heart?
 
Dear BH,

Unfortunately, there is little that anyone else can do for you right now but listen and be sympathetic. The position you're in is familiar to me and undoubtedly to others as well, but no one but you can decide how much is too much, how long is too long.
I know, this is a very challenging situation, and it is so hard to feel alone. If your husband had a physical ailment to cope with, it would be easier in a way (certainly we wouldn't wish for that)... but this is the hand that we have been dealt.
For me, I do much better if I have other things to do. Do you have other activities or obligations that you can give more priority to, so that you don't feel quite so powerless yourself, waiting on your husband? I have found that a painful predicament, and I do better if I don't have to feel so constrained by what he does (or doesn't) do.
One more observation, from personal experience of multiple sorts: one of the biggest violations for people to come to terms with is the sense that they have lost control. Sometimes I think that my bf just wants to say a big NO to as much as he possibly can, simply for the chance to say no. In this regard, I disagree with your therapist--pushing on your part seems counterproductive. Without making ultimatums, without feeling as though you can't wait another minute--is there some way you can simply approach all of this a minute, an hour, a day at a time?
Sorry, I'm not feeling very eloquent at the moment. But I sympathize with you, and I hope you will have the ability to take care of yourself and your daughter without feeling too crushed by everything that your husband is going through.

Best,
HG
 
maybe he does know and he is trying to push you away for your own good ,for me i know it seems like there is nothing i can do to make myself better,it seems hopeless sometimes,and the only thing i can do is not drag anybody else down with me.lots of guys here have lived ok for years and then all at once it all comes crashing down. he might be numb on the outside,but its gotta be ripping him up inside, i think we do know what it does to anyone that loves us and that just makes it worse.i dont really have any answers ,but i wouldnt ask him if you can tell somebody else im sure its hard enough with just you knowing ,abuse is a real closly guarded secret ,i think talking to him is better ,have you told him how you feel? have you asked him if hes willing to throw it all away?throwing away your life together is a lot bigger than throwing away some books. this is a hard subject for me cause all i want from life is to have the things he is about to lose .adam
 
This is a handout we got when I was doing my counselling course, the parts about Denial and Withdrawal seem to make a bit of sense here.

DEFENCES AGAINST CHANGE

All human beings develop ways of protecting themselves from pain, fear, shame and grief. When someone is confronted by the need to explore or face up to painful feelings, memories and situations, habitual defences come into play. This tendency is made stronger when the person is threatened with changes to self-concept and world - view.
The familiar, however unpleasant and uncomfortable, is safer than the risky unknown. It must be remembered that defences have, or had, survival value, and as such have positive characteristics as well as negative ones. If a persons defences are battered down before he is ready and able to deal with whatever is being defended, enormous damage can be done. Thus it is vital that people are given the time and space to tackle their problems at their own pace. Then, even if the defences do not fall of their own accord, recognising and acknowledging them with the counsellors help and support becomes a positive move towards growth and health. Otherwise, whatever defences are made useless by the counsellor, will be replaced by other, more desperate defences - or the client will simply stop coming for counselling.

Everyone has their own way of defending themselves, but there are some common forms of defence and resistance to change.

1) Denial

Sometimes the only way to deal with something is to deny that it exists. If certain aspects of life are associated with overwhelming pain, the mind has a way of closing off that area, allowing the person to behave as if it did not exist or had never happened. This is a largely unconscious process.
A form of denial can be used more consciously by people who have to live with the unthinkable - for example, the progressive illness and certain death of a loved one. Such people may deliberately set that knowledge aside in order to get on with their lives. This is a helpful mechanism, as long as the reality can be acknowledged and accepted at least from time to time.
True denial, the refusal to accept the reality of a situation or feeling, is fine as a temporary measure (it is a common short-term reaction to sudden death, for instance) but has harmful consequences as a long-term strategy.
Unresolved issues, which have been banished from consciousness, inevitably turn up in some disguised form, such as psychosomatic symptoms, phobias, neurosis, or simply high levels of stress. It takes energy to keep the unacceptable at bay, energy, which could be used more constructively to live a fuller and more effective life.
The counsellor builds up a picture of what is being denied from hints and clues dropped by the client during counselling. Only when a client feels sufficiently secure in the relationship, and has maybe worked through other, related issues, may the mind release its grip on the banned material and allow him to tackle it. The counsellor can help by creating a safe place for this to happen, and by offering the client opportunities for getting closer and closer to the crucial issues.

2) Withdrawal

Some people react to stress or pain by withdrawing into themselves, and cutting themselves off emotionally (and sometimes physically) from those close to them. It is the equivalent of pulling up the drawbridge and dropping the portcullis.
This may have been an effective defence in an environment where positive support was hard to find, but it prevents the person from asking for, or being able to accept, help in the present. Generally, people who come for counselling have already made a move outward, but withdrawal may be used frequently during the counselling process when the person is confronting difficult issues. It is both a warning to the counsellor to back off, and evidence of the importance of that particular issue.

3) Displacement activities

Displacement activities are patterns of behaviour which people show when they feel threatened or uncomfortable. They are recognisable because they always happen at certain kinds of moment, and they have the effect of distracting attention from the issue at hand. Smoking can be a displacement activity as well as a way of calming nerves; the actions of handling a cigarette packet or filling a pipe, finding a match or lighter, lighting up etc. give the person a breathing space and allow him to shift the spotlight away from the dangerous area.
At the right time, the clients attention can be drawn to the displacement activity, and he can be asked to sit with what is happening inside him at that point. In future sessions, the appearance of the activity then becomes a signal to the client as well as the counsellor that something important is happening inside the client.

4) Talking as a Defence

A common defence in articulate people is talking at a great rate and with few pauses. Talking is a specific form of displacement activity. It allows the person to avoid feeling the feelings associated with what he is talking about.
When such people are made to stop, and experience the feelings which go along with the subject matter, the effect can be dramatic.
The feelings are happening underneath the talk, but the person is successfully masking them from consciousness by concentrating on head stuff.
The counsellor needs at some point to stem the flow and persuade the client to risk
staying with the feelings in order to gain insight into what those feelings really are. Then the feelings can be explored and dealt with.
Talkers are notoriously difficult to counsel as they are usually experts in the avoidance of painful feelings and slide back up into their heads at the first opportunity. Just keeping track of what they are saying taxes the counsellors concentration. Firmness and confidence on the part of the counsellor are needed in order to work effectively with this defence.

5) Anger

Anger is used as a defence in many different ways. Anger is a powerful and active emotion, unlike grief, and fear, and shame, which disempower people. Anger is therefore frequently used as a mask for other, more painful or less acceptable feelings. Counsellors need to learn to distinguish between genuine anger, which is an appropriate reaction to a particular situation, and false anger, which is being used defensively. Anger can also be used as a defence against depression. Some habitually angry people are in fact suffering from masked depression. In other words, their chronic anger enables them to keep active in the face of the disempowering force of their depression. Once the source of the depression is understood and dealt with, the anger is no longer needed to keep them going.

6) Blaming

One way in which a person can deflect bad feelings about himself is to blame others, or Fate, for his troubles. Such a person may talk of being unlucky, of receiving unfair treatment from other people, of being picked on and discriminated against, of not having had a chance.
Much of what he says may have its roots in fact, but until he is able to accept responsibility for himself in the here-and-now, and look at the ways in which he himself may be contributing to the situation through his negative self-concept and / or distorted world view, he is not likely to make any progress. Before people can make positive improvements to their lives, they need to take full responsibility for themselves in the present.
Exploring and understanding how past experiences have shaped their lives then becomes a positive move towards psychological health, rather than a justification and an excuse for continuing to feel helpless and inadequate.

7) Lying

People do not always tell the truth to their counsellors. Clients who lie are indulging in severely self-defeating behaviour, but lying is, after all, one of the most obvious and successful defences against punishment.
A client who lies believes that the truth will alienate the counsellor, or that the counsellor will be disapproving and judgemental if they learn the truth.
The only way to disarm a liar is to make it clear to him that the truth will not have the negative effect he fears; to make him feel sufficiently valued and respected to risk telling the truth.
He may test the counsellors non-judgementalism by trying out a little bit of the truth. If the counsellor passes the test, more of the truth may emerge bit by bit.
Some people have become habitual liars and find it very difficult to break the habit, even when they know that it is neither necessary nor useful.
Into this category come people who have developed the habit of fantasising about themselves, spinning stories about their background, their exploits and their experiences. Extracting the facts from the fiction is a time-consuming process and not always a successful one. However, even the fiction has its uses in that it offers evidence of the persons needs and fears.
Habitual liars and fantasisers are likely (though there are other, less sympathetic reasons for people to become so) to have such low self-esteem that they do not believe their true selves to be in any way acceptable. They may also have been reared in an environment so hostile to their personal development that lying became a necessary tool for survival.
Counselling of people in this state is usually a long-term process. Counsellors need to be very alert to inconsistencies in what the client says and to the clients body-language. It is also important to be able to challenge the client firmly but acceptingly.

8) Shock Tactics

The client who sets out to shock the counsellor is most probably trying to defend the indefensible. It is an aggressive defence in that the person seeks to establish or maintain a dominant position by throwing the counsellor off-balance. There are many reasons for someone to use shock tactics. One is that he may be saying, in effect, I know how bad I am, you dont have to tell me. He is assuming that the counsellor will pass negative judgement on him. Another is that he is desperately trying to justify actions which are important to him whilst defending himself against his own secret knowledge that what he is doing is wrong. Substance abusers or sex offenders may use this type of defence for example.
A third is that he is only able to maintain a bearable level of self-esteem by pretending to be hard, and the evidence for his hardness is his ability to say and do things which other people would not dare to do.

If the counsellor falls into the trap of being shocked, or expressing a negative judgement, they may as well end the counselling then and there.
However, such tactics can make counsellors feel very uncomfortable, especially if they are women counselling men who use sexual shock tactics. Support from a colleague or supervisor may help the counsellor to deal with personal feelings.
Clients who use shock tactics need to learn, firstly that they are not going to work, and secondly that they are not necessary. It may take a great deal of perseverance, and consistent accepting behaviour, on the part of the counsellor before such a client feels able to risk showing bits of his true self.

9) Humour

People sometimes hide their hurt and their low self-esteem behind a mask of humour. This includes the jokers, who have so often been laughed at that they now deliberately set out to make people laugh (Ill do it before you can do it to me); the people who are always putting themselves down, but in a funny way to hide how much it hurts (they are also testing all the time the truth of what they are saying, so every time you laugh, you are confirming their poor view of themselves); people who make light of the impact on them of serious problems or events, because they cannot allow others to see how devastated they really are; and people who, in the counselling room, turn away any comment from the counsellor which gets a bit close to the mark, with a flip comment or a joke. The counsellor needs to challenge the joker client, to point out lack of congruence, both between what is being talked about and how it is being talked about, and between the humorous language and the not-at-all humorous body-language.
Humour is often a very courageous defence, indicating someone who has managed to find a way of protecting himself or herself without cutting off from other people or being aggressive towards them. It is usually very moving for a counsellor to deal with someone whose apparently upbeat and perky attitude hides a great deal of pain or grief.
Anyone who has a problem that won't go away can fall into using defences, and the bigger the problem the greater then need for the defences - for many people anyway, some just deal with the problems.

I think survivors fall into using defences more than most others though.
We ( especially males ) have the old taboos and suspicions of anything involving sex, children and others of the same sex. There's a lot of stuff that keeps us quiet, so much guilt and shame.

Breaking the defences is the challenge though, and not an easy one either.
Dave
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. Dave, I will keep your post and print it out to refer to from time to time - it has a lot of valuable information.

Shadow, you are such a kind and gentle person. I'm happy you are confronting your csa now while you are young so you WILL have a long and happy life with someone special one day.

HG, you say "Sometimes I think that my bf just wants to say a big NO to as much as he possibly can" -- boy, you got that right. Today we drove 2 hrs to a near by large city to have a day of shopping and a meeting for him, and when I reminded him to buckle his seatbelt once we were in heavy, fast traffic, he said, "Well, because you asked me to I'm not going to" and I just said "I know." I automatically knew why he had to say no even though on the surface it is childish and sets a bad example for our 3 yr old riding in the back seat, but oh well, whatever, I let it go because I understood.

Today was actually ok. I decided to just cry some last night alone, and then today we were able to have a day together - and it's rare to have that much time together - and it was fine. I did get a little emotional/teary once we were standing by the railing overlooking the giant Christmas tree on the ice rink at the Galleria, and he asked what is it, and I just said "I don't know..." and he put his arm around me and said "It's ok." I was just looking out over the ice rink at all the children skating and there were beautiful huge snowflakes lit up on the ice rink floor, and some beautiful music playing and I just felt overwhelming sadness for the little boy my husband was.

Soapy Bubbles, Yes, thankfully I do have some close friends I have been confiding in, very confidential people. All of my family lives out of town and I think I was just feeling so disconnected from them b/c of all this and wanted to reach out to them....but thought better of it b/c I really don't think it would help and it might hurt. And yes, I can trundle along w/ my daughter in the same house....if I don't think about things too much everything is as fine as can be except for no intimacy. And I do have several interests and am even thinking about taking a parttime job when my daughter has more fulltime school, at a psychiatrist's office of all things...my best friend is married to the neuropsychiatrist who employs my therapist....and he's impressed with all the research I do and with the interest I have in helping people with problems and I really do find it fascinating and would love to work w/ abused people to try to help them...I probably need more schooling for it later on first. Who knows, maybe if my husband saw me helping others with the same problems he would be more open to seeking help himself.

You guys are so great. I know my husband would rather deny than face it right now and it's understandable. Maybe I'll just give it lots more time and try not to push too hard because I do think that won't work - he won't even wear his seat belt if I suggest that!! He's definitely in a NO kind of mood.

You all are angels. Thanx again.
 
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