Kids Right organization

[MrDon]

Somehow I got on a mailing list with this "kids right organzation". I am definately not impressed with the place and remain on the mailing list to monitor what they are doing. There are a couple of "ideas" that they are promoting that I just strongly object to. They do have some good things they are trying to do.

Anyway, here is the latest email that I got and in the next reply, I will state my response to them concerning this.

My Concept of BASIC RIGHTS
--------------------------

* Recognition of the intrinsic right we have to raise and nurture our
* own children free of government interference through either divorce,
* separation, or social services.

* A child has a right to two parents involved in their lives (whether
* they like them or not!). When they turn 18 and can manage their
* own "rights", they can choose to never see you again!

* A good parent has a right to be an equal parent. An average parent
* has a right to be an equal parent. A poor parent has a right to be
* an equal parent.

* Children do not get to pick their parents.


My ESSENTIAL LIST (mostly derived from the rights above)
-----------------

* Through divorce or separation, each parent has equal time with the
* children as they can negotiate. If they can't, alternating weeks.

* Shared legal custody, both parents staying informed. When they
* can't agree one parent is designed as "tie breaker" based on what
* they negotiated as area of responsibility or alternating schedule.
* If they can't, alternating years. If the other parent disagrees
* strongly on a tie-breaker decision, they can go to mediation/court.

* Before a court can interfere with your relationship with your kids
* through divorce, separation, social service (child abuse). Society
* has the burden of proof that you are an unfit parent and a
* demonstrated threat to the safety of your kids. You have the
* protection of a unanimous verdict from a jury of your peers.

* If there is an "emergency" need to issue a temporary order that
* would interfered with your relationship, you have a right to speedy
* trial in 30-60 days.

* The PLC should be open to Mother's and Father's groups and those
* seeking reform of child abuse laws.

* No violence necessary for reform to happen.

* A parent chosing to move away for whatever reason will be given time
* during the summer/school vacations. It is not a reason to move the
* kids from the other parent.


My IMPORTANT LIST
-----------------

* Money and support orders need to be based on REAL income only and
* are adjusted automatically based on 1040 income (when required).

* The idea of a "psychological evaluation" to determine who parents
* the children should become a thing of the past.

* Children should not testify. But if they must, or if they are
* "evaluated" by a professional -- the entire session must be
* videotaped and made available. The child must speak for themselves.

* Society should focus on providing voluntary "services" to parents who
* may need help.

* No name calling necessary for reform to happen.

 

[MrDon]

Here is the response I sent back to them concerning the following paragraph in the original post.

* Before a court can interfere with your relationship with your kids
* through divorce, separation, social service (child abuse). Society
* has the burden of proof that you are an unfit parent and a
* demonstrated threat to the safety of your kids. You have the
* protection of a unanimous verdict from a jury of your peers.

I can understand your need for what you want to accomplish but when it comes to issues of child abuse, I have to strongly object and take issue with you. To many parents (whether it is the father or mother) they make it appear that they have done nothing wrong while they are abusing the hell out of the child. I could give many examples of this. A child has to be respected with no strings attached and most children can't stand up for themselves because society wants to "give credibility not to the kid but to the parent". Oh, so and so could never do that to a child, is often said. That is one of the most basic things that is wrong with our society. If it is just an allegation to try and stop someone from having custody, than I would start to agree with you. But if there is any chance that child is being abused, I will fight your organization all the way on behalf of the children who can not speak for themselves. Proof is not always easy to come by in child abuse situations and society uses that to further the abuse of a child. Often it is a child's word against the parent's and the child is not the winner.

Again, if perspective is kept through out this issue, than I am supportive of you on it. If however the child is in a situation where abuse is happening, than I strongly support the safety and protection of the child until a reasonable time can determine that the allegation is true or not true. There is not enough protection in our society today for children who are being abused at the will of people who turn the other way.

 

[KleinerSpatz]

In my opinion, childrens rights is a subject as abstract as a holliday on Mars.

Basically, when parents fail, for whatever reason. The child is in trouble.

When a child gets into "care". The child is deeper in trouble.

The idea of a child divorcing parents becomes a very sane option at a certain point.

Funny, so many people and organisations say they care for children, their rights and needs.

THEN WHY ARE WE HERE???????

(just wondering)

You are right Don, in every respect. These organisations need to be monitored.

"Funny" thing too, ever noticed more then a few childmolesters work with children by choice?

They manouvre themselves into a position to be close to their prey. and of course, nobody knows, sees or hears anything.

Let me tell you this:

After spending about my entire childhood in "care", alarms should go off, when the simple statement is made: "I never met a single person working in the care system, who gives a damn at all about kids"

Most are there because they get a steady job or they prey on kids in either a sexual or power-hungry related mental condition.

Spare me the Florence fucking Nightingale and so on stories. They are fucking fairytales.
Love doesn't come from a cane, a belt, threads of reformschool, and some things I won't even begin to mention.

I am sorry, I know I am probably very paranoid, mentally deranged perhaps, but I deeply distrust all those later day hippies and do-gooders that claim to "care" for kids.

If you care for kids, dont go begging for funds or boast about it.

Do something. get a kid out of hell. a few more if you can. Never mind money. there are things worse than being poor.

We never saw organisation, or other people "checking" or monitoring what went on. And it would have made no difference.

I admire the energy some good people spend on this issue, but don't expect to make a difference.

sorry for the hard words, but this subject pisses me off

these problems would not be here if society cared.

Where were they?

If there are those that realy do give a damn, then they are making a very poor impression. Not worth my time or money.

I can't speak out. literally. but I can write. Those who can speak, if you have something to say, say it!
I will write.

But who will listen and who will read?

Nobody bothered before.

 

[Lloydy]

Kleiner'
My wife works with an English born - Kashmiri parents - young guy who is the only person so far to legally divorce his parents when he was about 15yo.
He did it on the grounds of not wanting an arranged marriage and being pushed into the Muslim lifestyle.
He still lives with his parents, loves and respects them, and is a devout Muslim, but on his terms.

A great idea ?

Dave

 

[The Dean]

When I was working the streets I developed a children's bill of rights. Sr. Rose of Covenant House had written one, I liked it, but I saw some other things I felt need to be said.

This is my idea of children's rights. I could now add to it.

Bob

A Childrens Bill of Rights

We believe its the right of every child to be given the chance to experience that essential passage of life known as childhood. We hold these truths below to be absolute rights--basic and inalienable--as necessary to a child as air to breathe and water to drink.

1. We believe every child has the right to be put in touch with the God who loves him or her, free of the phony encumbrances of toxic religions who teach a fearsome, angry, vengeful God.

2. We believe every child has the right to a loving home and family.

3. We believe every child has the right to nutritious food, temperature appropriate clothing, shelter and good medical (physical and mental) care, including preventive health care.

4. We believe every child has the right to an education: to be given a chance to one day give back his or her best to society.

5. We believe every child has the right to absolute safety: to be free from terror of abuse and chains of neglect.

6.We believe every child has the right to be free from prejudice and inequality.

7. We believe that every child has the right to live without fear--unhindered by the threat of pervasive drugs, alcohol and violence.

8. We believe that every child has the right to chastity--to be free from sexual exploitation, and to be taught sexual responsibility.

9. We believe that every child has the right to respect.

10. We believe that every child has the right to be given the chance to one day make this world a better place.

11. We believe that every child has the right to be taught right from wrong.

12. We believe that every child has the right to good adult role models.

13. We believe that every child has the right to a certain level of stability in their lives, rather than the constant moves that accompany repeated eviction from their homes.

14. We believe that every child has the right to be taught that his or her actions have consequences and that they are responsible for their choices.

15. We believe that every child has the right to Hope.

16. We believe that every child has the right to a realistic dream and the fair chance to make the dream a reality.

(This Childrens Bill of Rights is based on a similar document composed by Sister Mary Rose of Covenant House.)

 

[Stee]

i'm not the sharpst knife in the drawer, but the original post up there doesn't look like anything to do with kid's rights.

it's all about parents.

now what thedean says, that's all about kids. and it makes me wonder why these things aren't automatic. i guess it's asking too much. probably not cost affective.

but just imagine what the world would be like if the that commandment said "Honor thy mother and father AND CHILDREN."

 

[Wuamei]

but just imagine what the world would be like if the that commandment said "Honor thy mother and father AND CHILDREN."

It's not in the ten commandments but:

"And fathers [parents, guardians, etc.], do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." (Book of Ephesians Chapter 6 verse 4).

Whatever that means, in spite of what some may try
to make it mean, I think it means "parents honor your children!"

Stee, you're a lot sharper than you think!

BTW welcome to the brotherhood of male survivors!

Victor

 

[Wuamei]

Men,

We are of course concerned for real rights for all children, especially the right not to be abused & when we are to have the resources & support we need accessible for overcoming the abuse & its consequences so we can really live.

Like many of you, I am greatly concerned also about what the Church in particular is--or is not--doing to prevent CSA and all abuse of children, as well as to offer unconditional love & support to abuse survivors.

These are excerpts from a 1996 initiative document by the Bishops (Episcopacy) of The United Methodist Church (TUMC), my denomination, along with some personal comments about them:

*****COULD TRIGGER FOR RELIGION/CHRISTIANITY******
(However if you can look at the points of this Initiative as tho coming from any good survivors advocacy group. Leave God out of it or replace God
with your own Higher Power. It's still good stuff.
Anyway the TRIGGER WARNING has been given...)

"Children and Poverty: An Episcopal Initiative"

The Crisis Among Children:

Child sacrifice has been taboo among the world's great religions for at least three thousand years, yet today children are being sacrificed to the gods of consumerism, violence, and neglect…

Almost three million children were reported abused
or neglected in 1992, one very eleven seconds.

The statistics alone do not tell the full story of what is happening to the world's children.

The Theological, Historical, & Missional Mandate:

The Gospels identify the reign of God with children. Mark's Gospel declares: "Then he took a little child and put it among them; and taking it in his arms, he said to them, "Whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me, and whoever
welcomes me welcomes not me but the one who sent me" (Mark 9:36-37). It is for them that the reign of justice, generosity, and joy is especially directed (Matthew 18:1-5). Jesus strongly rebukes those who would hinder and thwart the divine will for children (Mark 10:13-16). He breaks down the distinction between "our" children and the others (Matthew 10:37-39, Luke 14:26-27). He clearly calls for caring for all children as our children.
All children are equally loved by God, and God seeks the fulfillment of the divine image in every child.

[Whatever our beliefs religious or otherwise, surely we can all agree on taking care of all the children of the world, protecting them from abuse & loving them.]

The Challenge and Opportunity for TUMC:

The crisis among the world's children and impoverished people represents a kairos ["Now"] opportunity for TUMC. Many agencies, governments, and individuals are paralyzed by fear and despair in the face of the overwhelming needs...

[We know this is true. Particularly when it comes to helping male survivors.]

...For the most part, we know what to do and how to do it. What is lacking are the vision and the moral will. Vision and moral will are the responsibilities of the Church.

[This I firmly believe tho I believe everybody can & must have "vision & moral will" if we are to make the most of every opportunity to help the children.]

Children are amazingly resilient. Recent studies suggest that the primary sources of the resiliency of children include a supportive community and hope. [Don't we know how true this is brothers.] Loving relationships, hope for the future, and a sustaining value system are necessary for children to flourish and fulfill their God-given potential.

Public policy decisions that affect the children and the impoverished urgently need participation by the Church in the local, state, national, and world political arenas. The time is now for the Church to become the voice of the voiceless.

[Again I strongly believe this. Part of my mission
as a male survivor and as a Christian is to encourage the participation of the Church in lobbying, advocacy, protecting, resourcing, supporting, and loving all the children especially the abused & particularly male survivors. To be a voice for the voiceless, remembering that I too have been voiceless.]

Ours is the first generation in history to have the capacity to accomplish what has previously only been imaginable. God, through technicians and scientists, has brought the goals of removing and preventing needless suffering within reach. What is needed is a renewed vision of God's reign of justice, generosity, and joy for all people. Being empowered by that vision is the challenge and opportunity before TUMC and the world.

[To me this is about everybody coming together whatever our beliefs, places in life, etc, in support of these goals, to work toward the end of the needless suffering of SA especially.

That is the vision with which I want to challenge my church, and beyond...]

Goals of the Episcopal Initiative:

The crisis among children and the impoverished and our theological and historical mandates demand
more than additional programs or emphases. Nothing
less than the reshaping of The United Methodist Church in response to the God who is among "the least of these" is required...Communities of faith
shaped by God's presence with the most vulnerable represent alternatives to the values and visions of the prevailing culture [which as we well know still usually comes down to might makes right, the
bigger the better, if it feels good do it, etc].


Providing resources for understanding the crisis among children and the impoverished and enabling the Church to respond is also a goal of the Initiative. [And it's my goal to make sure responds in particular to male survivors.]

TUMC is called to be a means of grace to the vulnerable. The Church must also be open and hospitable to God's transforming grace through the vulnerable.

[This means helping the abused and also realizing & receiving the unique strength & perspective male survivors have to offer.]

The complete document for those who might want to read it can be found here:

https://www.mumac.org/childpov/BICP-Doc.html

Men whatever your religion or beliefs or whatever
please take this post for exactly what it is:

A part of my efforts to bridge the gap between male survivors and their friends, and the Church, especially my church. In other words, to show that
at least some in the Church are our friends, and friends to the children. Also that many others would be, if we would just introduce ourselves & our cause more clearly to them. This is one thing I hope to do--i.e., wake them up!

Victor