Just feeling angry this morning

Just feeling angry this morning
B

Brokenhearted

Registrant
Hi, just feel like venting. I'm just really angry. I'm supposed to go to a Bible study this morning but feel like I can't concentrate. I see my counselor tomorrow (thank God). I will try to get her final opinion on what I should say to my husband. I think I can already say what I need to, from my heart, hurt, etc. I can't believe I survived his adultery 4 yrs ago (though I was still thinking about it occasionally, just a hard thing to get over), and after it happened he saw how much pain I was in, cried out in remorse, we had mediocre counseling, supposedly made amends and then conceived our darling daughter. Now knowing he's probably been unfaithful all along anyway, it makes me feel so angry, like he doesn't even deserve our daughter, who would not have been conceived if I had known. She is the angel of my life and I would never regret having her, but having her with HIM is what is so bad.

SHE deserves a better father than this, sorry but that's how I feel right now. Not some jerk who is running around on us, yes, us, because I feel that just as he cheated on ME he cheated on HER.

I'm still so heartsick and sad. I really believe if you take away his csa effects, NONE of this would ever make any sense. We would have a good marriage, a happy life. Or maybe he's just junk. It hurts to think that.

I'm not from a broken home. My parents have been married 50 yrs. I'm a Christian who believes in commitment. I guess none of that matters.

He will lose his family over this. If he does not want to work on our marriage then that is the end result. I can't believe anyone would prefer to live a life alone without those who truly love him, without any connections in life, no real friends, no family. But maybe he just loves paying for sex too much. One man's trash, another man's treasure, I guess.

It also hurts because I'm a very attractive woman, it's true, I work out, I've always worn Victoria's stuff, the bod's good, I always wear makeup and dress nicely. I enjoy being a woman. None of that matters.

I worked fulltime during our marriage 12 yrs, and I was always looking forward to being a stay-at-home mother and it's all I've ever dreamed of. Surely my life's dream can't already be over.

Ridiculous. This cannot be my life. I can't believe how alone I've really been all along. He is like an empty suit, no one home, a hardworking suit that has beautiful cufflinks and enjoys all the pleasures in life, except his own wife.

Thanks for letting me vent. I am so very disrespected it's not even funny.

I am so depressed/horrified/alone/hurt/angry.
 
I hear you broken hearted...

All those things you say in the context of having children/a family home together are hugely what traumatised me so much also. It is a very frightening, insecure feeling. I've been there and I'm still in and out of that feeling..

It sounds like you're doing really well beginning to get in touch with some of your own feelings within all of this. I would say that's a really positive thing. I know it feels like s**t, but they are progress :)

keep on with the good work, sounds like you're doing really well,

peace
beccy
 
sorry. in the end honey, you can't change him. everything you just said, i gaurentee he knows. he may not allow himself to think about it, but he knows it. the bottom line is he continues to act out because he is just plain too messed up to make a stand. that doesnt excuse it, because after this much time, he could have changed if he really set his mind to it. i know when i act out, i am not thinking about anything. i push all that out, because if you thought about your wife, you couldnt live with yourself, so you dont. you just go after the high you want, the thrill of the hunt, conquest and adventure.

i jsut posted on the ms board about how i miss that. i was where he is, and it is hard to give that up. i still waiver sometimes, because all of that is just such a part of who you are. it doesnt excuse it or make it right, it just is.

the bottom line is that at some point, a person has to make a stand. at some point you have to fill your mind with those things you arent allowing yourself to think about, for they are what give you the strength to deny yourself the instant gratification. if he cannot focus on you and that little girl, he will never stop.

does he come here? if he does, tell him to talk to me. i cheated on my wife. i've acted out in every sexual way known to man, and i if i can find the strength to put my wife and kids first, maybe i can help him to do the same.
 
Thanks, Phoster.
I wished he came to this site. He is not ready to. God, I wish he would someday.

When I asked him if he ever got mad about his abuse, he said no. See, he is still in so much denial, he hasn't gotten angry about it even. He has that to work through eventually.

I don't know to what degree he is/has cheated. He was vague - all he said was he wasn't the kind of husband I think he is because he's "messed around so much." So I guess I take it to mean he's cheated the whole marriage - that's what it sounds like to me. Maybe it's just internet, maybe it's only a few times or maybe it's many/multiple. I have yet to ask him those hard questions. I will, when I present him w/ my letter that calls him into the present and sort of gives a "HELLO! WAKEUP CALL!" to him as to just what he stands to lose.

Do you know what compartmentalizing is? That is how he is able to have affairs and yet still love me. He always used to say he always loved me, even while he cheated that one time I found out about 4 yrs ago. I found it hard to believe but apparently there's a thing called compartmentalizing where they do what you say, they just think about one thing at a time, they don't see consequences or connect that what they are doing is hurting someone else...it is a form of them justifying or rationalizing things, I think. And anyway his heart is not involved , it's "just sex."

Personally I do not ever have to know the extent of his unfaithfulness. I don't care if it's w/ women, men, both, sheep, whatever (!). All I care about is that he sees he is doing something wrong that needs to stop so we can mend our marriage. I've read about all the stuff people do to act out, with both sexes, it is ugly, but I am not going to focus on it. It is sin, whatever way, shape or form, and I don't need the details except for my own health (AIDS risk) and possibly to find out if it could be more like a "sexual addiction" we're dealing w/. Other than that, doesn't matter. I can love him and forgive him just as Jesus does for all people, He doesn't care what you've done, how awful it is. Or if it's 1 time or 100. It's all sin, it's all the same in His eyes. Not to sound like a Sunday School teacher, but there it is. That is truly the way it is w/ me.

I have my own insecurities and at one time in my life if he even looked at a girl w/ big boobs I would have died of humiliation (I am kind of petite) but now I have to just grow up and deal w/it. I cannot allow any of my own insecurities to play any part in this. It has nothing to do w/ me, everything to do w/ him.

I don't condemn anyone who can't tell their wife they've been acting out. You feel remorse, you are sorry, you value her and your kids. To me that is enough. You know you've done wrong. You're struggling. I can understand this. I can understand the thrill....that is missing now. You are right you need to replace it w/ purpose and goals and projects and I've always heard that to do for others is the best thing you can do to make yourself feel better, like seeking out kids or other people that are hurting who need help to volunteer w/ or be a mentor to....you could help others because you've been there, you've had pain and come out the other side. You have compassion for others because you have suffered. I think if you had some really meaningful things in your life like that, then the "thrills" would start to look superficial and not so great to you. Maybe you could get high on helping others or researching or learning about something new or eating some good food -- there are so many kinds of pleasures out there that don't have to be destructive.

I know it's so much easier for me to talk, huh. Abusing one thing whether it's sex or drugs or food or anything, can be bad for us. It's also about self-love. You don't want to hurt yourself by risking all you value. You also don't want to cheapen yourself by sleeping w/ anyone....it's like your own special DNA that God gave you will mix w/ that trashy person's and you become "one" in His eyes. Yuck. Maybe just thinking about things differently. Learning about *why* sex is special/sacred/beautiful w/ your wife only, not the disposable, recreational thing that the world sees it as.

I don't know. I really hate to turn anyone off but I do believe in the power of prayer. God made us as sexual beings so we can't deny our chemistry, but we are also to love others as we love *ourselves.* If we don't love ourselves we are in danger of abusing ourselves even if we don't see it. YOu also need to forgive yourself for all the acting out. Don't be hard on yourself. It was awful maybe and all, but you've got to let it go. It's not you. It's a bad behavior. You're a good guy. I know that because you are here trying to heal and do the right things. You are at least trying. It is a bumpy road and you will fall back sometimes. But I think all the guys here are good guys. I wish my own husband could be as strong as any of you and face his own stuff.
 
Brokenhearted,

It is kinda eeerrrie when I read your posts!! Your husband and my husband sound like one person. And I am Christian woman just like you. However, I have been married 25 years with no children. And he has cheated on me before. I felt the same way you did. We went to some counseling and we went to church; I thought everthing was alright with us. Then 5 months ago I found out he was cheating again, with more that one woman. He did go to one marriage counseling session with me and told my therapist "She has no idea how many women I have been with." WOW did that hurt!! This is his second marriage and I also recently found out hew was unfaithful to her first wife at least two times. So I guess what I have finally realized is that he has never really been a WHOLE person since the CSA. He does not know how to love himself, so therefore he can not love anyone else. He has never been able to make a connection emotionally with anybody. So I tell myself "If he has not been able to do this for 54 years, what makes me this I am going to make him change now?" I am at the point where I have decided I can not fix or heal him of his pain. He needs to be the one to take that step. And I know it is a HUGE step for him. I feel the same way you do I work out, have a nice bod, go to church etc. He has a great career, a wife that loves him, tons of family and friends. But he wants to live alone the ret of his life is misery because that is what he deserves. I do have faith that God can restore our marriage and I do have faith that God will SAVE hime one day. But I also know that the time has come to think about GINNY> I think I will be filing for a divorce in the next ccouple of weeks. I feel like he hs left me no other choice,. He does not love me, he has alreadt moved out. So now I MUST go on with my life. I know it will be emotionally draining; but I beleive God will see me through the storm.

Ginny
 
Brokenhearted,

It tears me up so bad to see how all this is affecting you. It really does. Your pain, anguish and anger ring from every line.

I'd like to return to something I said somewhere here in F&F, but perhaps not in talking with you. I can understand entirely how you feel about his acting out, but the truth of the matter is that when a survivor does that it's not a conscious vote against his family or a judgment against his partner, but a desperate attempt to cope with overwhelming emotions about himself: powerlessness, hopelessness, shame, guilt, inadequacy, worthlessness, fear, numbness, or whatever. That is, though his partner and others are affected, they aren't his target or the source of the problem.

I say this not to excuse him, but to stress that the solution lies squarely in his hands: he is the one who has to take the hard decisions and do the work. Your support would be vital, but it looks like he already has that and isn't responding.

I think it should also be stressed that while it's fine that you work out, look good, and dress nicely, that's not why you deserve to be treated with respect. You deserve respect not after some tally of pluses and minuses, subject to periodic review, but from the get-go and for always. That's what commitment is all about and a vital part of what makes a relationship tick. And sex isn't "just sex", as he seems to figure, it's of course a central part of this equation.

One thing I worry about in your posts here, Brokenhearted, is that as things go on unchecked like this you will become more and more victimized. By that I don't mean you are affected by what he does - of course you are. What I'm onto here is the risk of starting to judge yourself based on his fooling around. That's no good. I hope I'm not crossing a line here, but look at your statements about all the things that "don't matter". They DO matter!!!! Maybe they don't figure in his decisions, but that's his fault not yours. All those things you mention are wonderful contributions to your relationship on your part, and you should be proud of them even if he doesn't or can't acknowledge them. To be honest, I hope what you are going through doesn't make you cynical and cause you to modify those great qualities that seem to shine from your posts. You are not the one who needs to change anything about yourself - he is.

You are so right about loving yourself, and remember that you have to love yourself first. That doesn't mean be selfish, it just means that in a crisis it's the woman who's watching out for her own boundaries and doing what she needs to do to stay strong who can best look out not only for herself, but also for her partner and her family. I know it's a terrible cliche, but it's mine so here it is again: As two ships sail together, one can't help the other if both are burning.

A final word on your faith. Say what you need to say girl. It's your post. You can't expect to get much out of talking here if you can't say how you feel and express your convictions. There are guys here who were abused by religious leaders, sure, and that can make religion a sensitive issue for them in various ways. But I don't think anyone here would say you shouldn't express yourself openly and honestly here. I hope you will continue to do that.

Much love,
Larry
 
First, Ginny - wow, 25 yrs spent w/ someone unable to be close is such a long time. I am so sorry to hear you may have to seek a divorce. But you're probably right, trying to change someone after 54 yrs of them being that way, sounds futile. Even if they would feel true joy/love for the first time. So sad. I am so sorry. I need to re-read some of your posts, but has he had ANY counseling for his csa? Are we BOTH waiting for them to seek help?

Larry - Thank you for your concern. Things aren't going unchecked too long - sometimes I do get that horrible feeling that I'm not something enough for him, based on just my own insecurities. I know it's not true. It is just irritating that he doesn't appreciate so many things, and really, not just about me, but about our life in general, all the blessings we really have that he is not seeing.

But I see my counselor tomorrow and she will help me finalize my letter to him, which I will give to him at least by Sunday. He goes out of town Sunday and I want him to have it before he leaves. It sets out boundaries, not an ultimatim, but that we must have marriage counseling if we are to stay together as a family. I hope he will choose to do so. I'm so scared of him "not responding" again.

But it worries me. You said: "Your support would be vital, but it looks like he already has that and isn't responding."

That is what is worrisome. "He isn't responding." If anyone ever told ME that my abuse has caused a bunch of stuff they've read about, I would get online right away and find out what I could because I would at least be CURIOUS. He seems CONTENT to stay as is and so then I get the feeling that maybe he will never even desire to change.

But I guess we will find out. Making a choice that can cost you your family surely would not be that easy for anyone. It will be interesting to find out. And if all fails and it turns out we are his trash, surely we would be someone else's treasure, because I would want to find someone to spend life with again. I'd probaby find more companionship than I've had the whole time anyway.

But I still hope. Thank you for your post.
 
Brokenhearted,

That is what is worrisome. "He isn't responding." If anyone ever told ME that my abuse has caused a bunch of stuff they've read about, I would get online right away and find out what I could because I would at least be CURIOUS. He seems CONTENT to stay as is and so then I get the feeling that maybe he will never even desire to change.
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To be fair, this is how you as a non-survivor THINK you would respond. For him it's very different. I doubt that he's content with the status quo; in fact I'd be willing to bet he's very unhappy, and he may feel so worthless that he figures he would just fail if he tried. But the result is the same for you and your daughter - there's the real problem.

Trash/treasure: You and your daughter are treasure beyond value, my friend. Always remember that.

Much love,
Larry
 
Yeah, we are. :-)
 
Ginny,

I'm so sorry that things seem to be heading in this direction for you. You comment:

He does not know how to love himself, so therefore he can not love anyone else. He has never been able to make a connection emotionally with anybody.
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There's the heart of the tragedy, really. No one can make a survivor in this situation see what's going on or take the crucial decisions for him. He has to do that for himself.

On the point of him being 54, it might be worth recalling that this doesn't mean he has been trying for 30-40 years to cope with his issues and failed. I myself am 57 and I had no coherent recollection of the abuse until about the year 2000 - it's hard to say. I wasn't absolutely sure for another 2-3 years, and I didn't send that liberating message to my sister, "Cath, I was molested when I was a kid", until November 2003. So many of us are in this boat. Either we are dealing with the surfacing of old memories or we are discovering that old superficial ways of coping (for example, telling ourselves "it was a long time ago") just don't work anymore. For survivors like this the experience of trying to recover is very new.

In any case, you are right in feeling that you have to think of your own welfare too. Only you can say when the point is reached that you just can't continue with him as things are. However you decide I wish you all the best and I hope you will stay with us and keep us posted on how you are doing.

Much love,
Larry
 
Brokenhearted,

We did go to marriage counseling the first time he had an affair. When we spearate in May he did go to individual counseling for 5 sessions. I was also going on my own. His therapist told him he had two choices: 1. Forgive himself for everyone he has hurt and deal with the CSA or 2. Don't forgive himself and don't deal with the CSA and be unhappy for the rest of his life. He told me at one point it was easier said thn done. In July he did ask me for forgiveness and I did. We gave it one last shot. Then on 9/7 we went to our first marriage counseling session together and he was back at the same place: Unhappy, a bad person, and I deserved better. So that nite he moved out. Since then he has not been back to counseling and he is filing for divorce. I told him about you and your husband tonite. He did not say much. So I guess he has choosen choice 2; unfortunately. Hang in there I hope things work out for you and your family.

Ginny
 
Larry,

In response to you statement about his age I knew he has been molested by an uncle at round age 7...But until June of this year is when I discovered that he was molested by a member of the "immediate" family at around age 4...I have no idea who it was; possibly his mother. He made a statement one nite "I am a bitter person, just like my mother!! And I am going to die a bitter person just like her" So it is just a guess that it was his mother; which according to research I have done is one of the most difficult types of CSA to recover from. I tend to agree with you about him feeling "it happened a long time" is not working for him anymore. He made a statement in our one counseling session "I don't care what happened to me when I was four years old, I am just a bad person and this will never change. Larry, I do love him with all my heart, and I will walk this long journey with him, only if he allows me to.

Ginny
 
Ginny,

"I don't care what happened to me when I was four years old, I am just a bad person and this will never change."
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That's the feelings of denial, worthlessness and doom speaking, and it's so sad. At the end of the day you are absolutely right. You can't walk this path with him unless he lets you.

As I said, please do stick with us.

Much love,
Larry
 
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