Just another rant about god
Just another rant about god
- Thread starterSilentwar
- Start date
Recently I met with a clergy member and said to him, “I often wonder what my life would be like if I wasn’t sexually abused.” He told me to remember that this world is but a second in relation to eternity. In this world people are turning away from God and using their free well for evil. They have their day now. You will have yours in eternity. Turn it over to God. He loves you and all those who are hurting. Trust in him and stay the course. Do the best you can and some day (when this world is long gone and we are in the world to come), there will be no more tears, no more sorrow but life in eternity for those who believe. The world is the devil’s playpen. We see things get worse here every day as more people turn away from God. Choose to turn towards God and ask for His help. With Him you can get through things of this world with the knowledge that one day you will be in paradise. Please don’t give up. There’s so much more than what we see. Just like atoms and other particles we can’t see or understand. God made these. He made us too. But our destiny is not here. We need to do the best we can while here and trust in God.
Remember that churches and religions are not infallible. But they can be vehicles to get us closer to God. He sent His Son to save us. I believe in that as I watch this world crumble further everyday as people continue to turn away from Him. Bless you and don’t lose hope…
@Silentwar, you have no reason to praise or respect God if you don't want to.
As an atheist with no skin in this this game, my thought for you is that you could certainly use your anger at God as a crutch. Tell God to go screw himself, and then try to have a good life in spite of what he's done to you. Make him pay with your success.
As an atheist with no skin in this this game, my thought for you is that you could certainly use your anger at God as a crutch. Tell God to go screw himself, and then try to have a good life in spite of what he's done to you. Make him pay with your success.
ODAT Thank you for sharing these beautiful words of faith so eloquently. You mentioned that churches and religions are not infallible and that they can be vehicles to get us closer to God - this analagy is helpful. We, our human physical bodies are also vehicles to which our consciousness - our awareness - is attached. We are physical, mental and emotional beings - we are, at our essence, spirits - and we inhabit what we call our bodies. And we are "survivors" of having had our bodies violated at a time when we had no understanding of what was being done... but as we grew older and came to understand the "truth" of how horribly our bodies were violated without our consent - we became angry, despondent, rageful and on and on... because more significant than the violation of our bodies was the violation of our personhood - our minds, our emotions, our dignity, our trust - and we were left stunned and shattered - broken. Faith in "God", reality, truth, love - helps to restore us as rational, sane beings who are capable of recognizing and testifying to truth - to live in love - i.e. to genuinely care for others - and it is only in communion with others, that is in our ability to communicate and empathize and understand others and to truly "care" for them, we become more aware - more "alive" because awareness continues for eternity - it is not just while we are here in our physical bodies that our consciousness lives - our consciousness - our awareness of that which is - is eternal. That is God: God is awareness. God is love and the source of our being - the source of our awareness - all of the people who were murdered during the holocaust did not die when their bodies were murdered - their spirit lives on - the spirits of those who murdered them will have to give an account to God when they are face to face in eternity. That is when justice will occur. The same is true for each of us and we have all violated others in some way -maybe not as horrifically as we ourselves were violated or as horribly as those who died in concentration camps, but no person is infallible, so we have all fallen short and hurt others and hurt ourselves in the process - so we are called to love and to understand that the ones who violated us were truly placing their own eternal souls in jeapordy when they used our bodies as a thing without regard for our personhood or the impact upon our young impressionable minds.
So that is where forgivenss comes in. Forgiveness is the only way to escape the torment of hatred and rage. No one can make what happened to us right, but God can and will in eternity. We just have to believe. Trust that God loves you. God also loves the people who violated you. The question is do we love God? Which is another way of saying do we love truth? Do we love love? Do we love ourselves and do we love others? All of these things are harmonious with each other. When we violate others, we violate God, we violate ourselves, we violate all of creation. We are incapable of perfection. Only God is good. We are accepted - we are loved - we need to receive that love, we need to open our minds and hearts to receiving that love and to pass it on. We pass it on by testifying to the truth in love. The world is dying in deception. Whenever we lust in our hearts, we are, in a way, acting like the people who violated us - that can help us to "understand" what they did - but it does not excuse it. we have to leave justice to God. I never saw justice with any of the people who raped me nor for those who enabled the rapes to happen. All I got from them was denial. We cannot make it right. But God can and God will. That brings peace. That peace is from God and is God.
Thank you I’m Alive. My biggest struggle now is with myself. The abuse led to my acting out in my 30’s-40’s. It led to my being sexualized, looking at pornography from the age of 9 and constant thoughts of sex with men in my head. I struggle with purity and being who God wants me to be. I wear this addiction like “filthy rags.” I just want it to go away and I pray to God that it does. Perhaps I need to pray harder.
Thank you for your reply. It was just what I needed. Be well…
Lately, I think the hardest thing to admit is, that when I’m attempting to talk to god, I’m just talking to myself in a kind of psychosis.
It’s hard for me to settle on that conclusion, because I have ask: where did my mother go when she died? The answer is I don’t know.
I know believing in god/good is the right thing to do, but without proof or experience it’s meaningless. It’s like someone telling me to believe that the government is good, just for the sake of it.
I feel quite happy that this will probably be my last Christmas, I know I’m a burden to my family and things aren’t working out for me so it’s doubtful I’ll make it through another year.
On a slightly different note, I figured out that I had a lot of stored trauma in my abdomen from my abuse, which would escalate during the act of sex. So as an experiment I watched porn just to observe the terror that was rising up in me, the intention was to let the feeling complete itself so that it no longer interrupted my erections during intimacy. (I can explain more if anyone is interested)
I think the miracle I was searching for was the fact I even made it this far without any help and no love. But I’m tired now and the world has turned to shit so there’s nothing left.
It’s hard for me to settle on that conclusion, because I have ask: where did my mother go when she died? The answer is I don’t know.
I know believing in god/good is the right thing to do, but without proof or experience it’s meaningless. It’s like someone telling me to believe that the government is good, just for the sake of it.
I feel quite happy that this will probably be my last Christmas, I know I’m a burden to my family and things aren’t working out for me so it’s doubtful I’ll make it through another year.
On a slightly different note, I figured out that I had a lot of stored trauma in my abdomen from my abuse, which would escalate during the act of sex. So as an experiment I watched porn just to observe the terror that was rising up in me, the intention was to let the feeling complete itself so that it no longer interrupted my erections during intimacy. (I can explain more if anyone is interested)
I think the miracle I was searching for was the fact I even made it this far without any help and no love. But I’m tired now and the world has turned to shit so there’s nothing left.
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Hey @Silentwar. This is a hard post to respond to. I won't give you platitudes. I won't try and convince you to believe in God. Because hearing others' testimonies and belief cannot fulfill the need for proof or experience of your own. I only know the promise that Jesus made (from Luke):
“So I say to you, ask and keep on asking, and it will be given to you; seek and keep on seeking, and you will find; knock and keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you." (Amplified version)
I also know you have been asking, seeking and knocking
When my grandmas was dying of pancreatic cancer, we had quite a few spiritual conversations. She really wanted to believe, but she had some roadblocks to her belief that she shared with me. We talked about them, and she was open to hearing. I don't know for sure - because only God can really judge our hearts - but I believe she came to belief before she died. And I am hopeful about seeing her in the next life.
You also said: "I think the miracle I was searching for was the fact I even made it this far without any help and no love." First off, that makes me really sad. I'm sorry for the lack of support and help in your life. No one deserves to go through life that way. You do have help here, and honestly @Silentwar, I see so much love in this thread for you. But I agree for all of us: it is a miracle any of us made it this far - with or without help.
SpaceCadet
Registrant
There's a song that perfectly captures my feelings on this subject, though it's not about abuse per se. Some background is probably necessary. The singer is writing about his mother, who was paralyzed early in his life. She maintained her faith despite this, and the lyrics are about the songwriter's incomprehension and rage. Both at his mother for worshiping a deity that could cause such harm, and at said deity for not protecting his mother, indeed abandoning her.
Judith, by A Perfect Circle
You're such an inspiration for the ways /That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you/How your savior has abandoned you
F*** your God/Your Lord and your Christ
He did this/Took all you had and
Left you this way/Still you pray, you never stray
Never taste of the fruit/You never thought to question why
It's not like you killed someone/It's not like you drove a hateful spear into his side
Praise the one who left you/Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you/He did it all for you
Oh so many many ways for me to show you/How your dogma has abandoned you
Pray to your Christ, to your god/Never taste of the fruit
Never stray, never break/Never choke on a lie
Even though he's the one who did this to you/You never thought to question why
Not like you killed someone/It's not like you drove a spiteful spear into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ/As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you/Did it all for you
He did it all for you
These days I highly doubt that the God of Abraham exists. Yet there still seems to be "something" supernatural at work in the world. It seems exceedingly capricious about who it helps and harms, however, and if it is indeed the God I learned about in Sunday School, I want nothing to do with him/her/it.
Judith, by A Perfect Circle
You're such an inspiration for the ways /That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you/How your savior has abandoned you
F*** your God/Your Lord and your Christ
He did this/Took all you had and
Left you this way/Still you pray, you never stray
Never taste of the fruit/You never thought to question why
It's not like you killed someone/It's not like you drove a hateful spear into his side
Praise the one who left you/Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you/He did it all for you
Oh so many many ways for me to show you/How your dogma has abandoned you
Pray to your Christ, to your god/Never taste of the fruit
Never stray, never break/Never choke on a lie
Even though he's the one who did this to you/You never thought to question why
Not like you killed someone/It's not like you drove a spiteful spear into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ/As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you/Did it all for you
He did it all for you
These days I highly doubt that the God of Abraham exists. Yet there still seems to be "something" supernatural at work in the world. It seems exceedingly capricious about who it helps and harms, however, and if it is indeed the God I learned about in Sunday School, I want nothing to do with him/her/it.
I know this song very well. It’s on my YouTube playlist while I’m at the gym. I never actually knew the full meaning behind the lyrics so thanks for that.
I was just having a discussion with a Christian on an online chat site. He made some good points but as I said to him, unfortunately it’s just words in a book and I don’t feel anything after decades of disappointment.
I was just having a discussion with a Christian on an online chat site. He made some good points but as I said to him, unfortunately it’s just words in a book and I don’t feel anything after decades of disappointment.
You make very good points about why trauma lingers with us. The work you are describing is very involving, i would say overwhelming, and I get tired of trying to explain what I'm doing to family and friends. At least I have family and friends...
Mentioning that you're eighty and dealing with this...I don't know if that's discouraging or depressing to hear. Let's hope the former.
It was very heartening for me when I came upon an excellent book called The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality, that examines both the argument for the existence of god and reflects on the realities of human existence that in fact are experienced as spiritual... a spirituality that is NOT dependent on the existence or non-existence of a supreme being. Putting the label "god" on these life experiences clearly happens for those committed to a religious vision of what life is all about, but that is hardly necessary. It becomes especially troublesome when the price of admission is admitting our sinfulness and asking forgiveness, despite the fact our behaviors are so often rooted in the traumas inflicted on us. To say "God forgives me" or that he "loves me" pisses me off. Most religions have elaborate requirements of the faithful and we've had religious wars for thousands of years ONLY because of disagreements over whose interpretation of the matter is correct... a pretty sad indictment of religious faith if you ask me.
Yes, love exists in this world but it is not dependent on fealty to a higher power. Kindness is not dependent on that either. I wear a yin and yang pendant. Honestly, I think the Buddhists and Taoists have a much more enlightened perspective on all of this.
Healing comes through self-compassion and self-care. We come here for support in doing that important work. I'm very grateful for the contributions of men here who carry the residue of trauma and are finding their way to healing. For those who find solace in their religious faith, I'm pleased for you. The important thing to remember that one size does NOT fit all. Your solution will not work for everyone and proselytizing isn't useful here.
This is a forum on spirituality, so this is the best place to be having these conversations. I don't come here to denigrate anyone's faith, but I have wanted to address the challenges some among us are experiencing when asking questions about god. These are struggles I've had during my many years on this planet. Spirituality remains an integral part of my life and doubtless will for the rest of my life. I imagine SilentWar will continue his exploration as well. Though his post above is his last, I noted that he was on the site earlier today. Glad you made it to the new year. Be well and stay safe.
Yes, love exists in this world but it is not dependent on fealty to a higher power. Kindness is not dependent on that either. I wear a yin and yang pendant. Honestly, I think the Buddhists and Taoists have a much more enlightened perspective on all of this.
Healing comes through self-compassion and self-care. We come here for support in doing that important work. I'm very grateful for the contributions of men here who carry the residue of trauma and are finding their way to healing. For those who find solace in their religious faith, I'm pleased for you. The important thing to remember that one size does NOT fit all. Your solution will not work for everyone and proselytizing isn't useful here.
This is a forum on spirituality, so this is the best place to be having these conversations. I don't come here to denigrate anyone's faith, but I have wanted to address the challenges some among us are experiencing when asking questions about god. These are struggles I've had during my many years on this planet. Spirituality remains an integral part of my life and doubtless will for the rest of my life. I imagine SilentWar will continue his exploration as well. Though his post above is his last, I noted that he was on the site earlier today. Glad you made it to the new year. Be well and stay safe.
Well, I was explaining to someone on a text suicide helpline today that the only reason I’m still here is because my belongings and body would cause even more of a burden on my family.
I also saw a quote today which said ‘I bet god is having the time of his immortal life watching me suffer’.
If I was going to be honest, I have felt this exact sentiment for as long as I can remember. The person in the above post mentions that when someone says god loves you, it pisses them off. I’m exactly the same. A friend said this to me and it took all of my energy to stop myself from flying into a rage.
At this moment in time, the idea of a jealous, vengeful god who also loves is too abstract.
This world seems like a zoo or a farm mainly comprised of suffering. And I don’t know how I will ever come to terms with what I’ve experienced. Just when I feel as I’m getting somewhere, something comes along and ruins it.
Maybe if I had proof god even cares I’d be a bit more hopeful or even grateful. But as it stands, I’m still met with silence. I must be going mad. Or have gone mad. A fucking lunatic. Waiting for his lottery ticket to come up. Always fucking waiting.
I also saw a quote today which said ‘I bet god is having the time of his immortal life watching me suffer’.
If I was going to be honest, I have felt this exact sentiment for as long as I can remember. The person in the above post mentions that when someone says god loves you, it pisses them off. I’m exactly the same. A friend said this to me and it took all of my energy to stop myself from flying into a rage.
At this moment in time, the idea of a jealous, vengeful god who also loves is too abstract.
This world seems like a zoo or a farm mainly comprised of suffering. And I don’t know how I will ever come to terms with what I’ve experienced. Just when I feel as I’m getting somewhere, something comes along and ruins it.
Maybe if I had proof god even cares I’d be a bit more hopeful or even grateful. But as it stands, I’m still met with silence. I must be going mad. Or have gone mad. A fucking lunatic. Waiting for his lottery ticket to come up. Always fucking waiting.
@Visitor, I love you and respect you. But you proselytize your own spirituality loudly on this site. And you denigrate one faith along the way based on the actions of people long ago (and probably some today as well) and what those of this faith believe. I respect what you believe in and even what you do not. But I fear you do not feel the same about those of us who believe in and do our utmost to follow Jesus.
@Silentwar, I do understand (as much as I can anyway, from a generic CSA survivor perspective) your pain, man. And it pains me that I cannot do anything to help ease your pain other than to tell you that you aren’t alone and we care about you. Thank you for being real and sharing this thread. I feel sometimes there is a mistaken belief about some of us who believe in God - that we don’t get angry at God or have confusion about how any of what happened to us makes sense. Because what happened to us and the consequences of it are not fair, and make absolutely no sense. Thank you.
Not_our_fault
Registrant
I suggest reading and watching (more watching) Christopher Hitchens on YouTube
The spirituality I "loudly" proclaim on this website is that self-compassion is the antidote to shame and self-care a confirmation we are worthy, lovable, cherished. That has nothing to do with any faith tradition. I also say that the trauma we experienced invariably sexualized us and led us to do things that caused suffering for ourselves and for others in our lives. I don't characterize that behavior as sinful nor do I believe it requires forgiveness by anyone... it warrants understanding and self-compassion... things we are working toward on this website.
I've no doubt there are people of good will who are Christians, but I know Christianity is not one thing... it is many things to many people and some of those things are offensive to me. Some of those things go back centuries and some are happening right now in this country. From everything you share on this website MO, I've no doubt you are a good man and that your faith serves you. What I share above was intended to provide solace for Silentwar who seems burdened by the conception of God he carries. I was simply offering him another perspective on it all.
CarbonTiger
Registrant
Another miracle has happened to me.
..And I know in my heart of hearts God is real and he cries for us. We ARE children OF god/Source, The Divine Almighty.
God knows that I had all but given up last week and sent me a miracle, a guardian. I met another person of CSA and while we have very different experiences. We have to many similairties in life for it to not be a coincidence.
I don't need to convince anyone here, but you will instinctively know that God is speaking to you, answering that Prayer or question. The world is changing. People on this planet are starting to recognize this.
In the end, love is alll that matters. I'm living proof that something exists that is beyond ourselves. I don't know if this will comfort anyone that reads this but that was my intention, haha. We are never alone as hard as it is to believe in our moments of despair. Okay, enough crazy talk some body tell me to shut up already....
♥✞☀
..And I know in my heart of hearts God is real and he cries for us. We ARE children OF god/Source, The Divine Almighty.
God knows that I had all but given up last week and sent me a miracle, a guardian. I met another person of CSA and while we have very different experiences. We have to many similairties in life for it to not be a coincidence.
I don't need to convince anyone here, but you will instinctively know that God is speaking to you, answering that Prayer or question. The world is changing. People on this planet are starting to recognize this.
In the end, love is alll that matters. I'm living proof that something exists that is beyond ourselves. I don't know if this will comfort anyone that reads this but that was my intention, haha. We are never alone as hard as it is to believe in our moments of despair. Okay, enough crazy talk some body tell me to shut up already....
♥✞☀
CarbonTiger
Registrant
I LOVE this song. Its such a great rock song, and the music video is sooooo good!
I could have written that second bold statement myself - every time I reach out to someone and share how my faith has been integral in my healing. That’s all I’m doing when I share that aspect of my healing. And yet:
When a Christian (like me) expresses here what their faith has personally meant and how it has helped them:
- You are offended because of thousands of years of history and the actions of those who have claimed the same faith. There is plenty of good and evil - both - that has been done in the name of faith
- You make accusations they are proselytizing on this site
- You claim what we say has no place on this site
- And all this, regardless of the fact that Jesus espoused and demonstrated “self-compassion… and self-care… (and) a confirmation we are worthy, lovable, cherished”
- There is no mention or recognition of the good and evil done by atheists over thousands of years. Instead, everything you do and say, you confine to the context of this site and the here and now
- You are somehow not proselytizing
- You believe only your spirituality - well, I guess actually any spirituality that is not Christian (and probably not Jewish) - has a place on this site
Thanks @Visitor.
Amen @MO-Survivor
There is a reason that this particular “Spirituality and Survivors” forum exists.
There are many who are angry at God, blame God. Are angry at the Church. (Please note that those two sentences are not interchangeable or synonymous).
But there are a great many who (I would say: rightly) find solace, hope and peace with God. This forum here exists to share that. To share, to hopefully help a fellow survivor.
And there are those who question, who don’t get it and searching.
That’s why this is here.
Bornfree
Registrant
I too was pressured, coerced into doing the sexual things when I was 4, and again when I was 11.