Just another rant about god

Not_our_fault

Registrant
On the contrary, whining/complaining could be a way of looking for answers. I didn’t really see you as whining. Airing frustrations and anger, looking for an explanation(s), certainly. So this very well could be the right place. Not necessarily this thread, but the spirituality section.

On the other hand the following comment:

I would respectfully say doesn’t have a place here. For sure, I’m not seeking to start a battle. But it baffles me as to why those who are anti-religion, or anti-spirituality, or anti-God come and pounce on others who are seeking, and seeking in a place that’s specifically created for things spiritual.
Then you completely misunderstood. If you read them books it isn’t about anti anything, it’s pointing out what religion is doing and why people want or need it but in a rational world you can break from it and find your own way in life
 

Not_our_fault

Registrant
On the contrary, whining/complaining could be a way of looking for answers. I didn’t really see you as whining. Airing frustrations and anger, looking for an explanation(s), certainly. So this very well could be the right place. Not necessarily this thread, but the spirituality section.

On the other hand the following comment:

I would respectfully say doesn’t have a place here. For sure, I’m not seeking to start a battle. But it baffles me as to why those who are anti-religion, or anti-spirituality, or anti-God come and pounce on others who are seeking, and seeking in a place that’s specifically created for things spiritual.
As for not having a place here. These books and talks helped me understand my questions on religious abuse way more than anything else did
 

Blueshawk

Registrant
I keep posting here in case someone says anything I can relate to, but I’m convinced things are winding down for me.
Hey man, I wish I had better words but want you to know that you matter, we all do here. That we're still here fighting to live our lives after so much pain is the miracle. Tbh, there's a beauty in the guys here who can go thru so much and still go on, no matter where they find themselves today; you too man.
 

Silentwar

Registrant
Hey man, I wish I had better words but want you to know that you matter, we all do here. That we're still here fighting to live our lives after so much pain is the miracle. Tbh, there's a beauty in the guys here who can go thru so much and still go on, no matter where they find themselves today; you too man.
Thanks man, really appreciate it.
 

Eric66

Registrant
“Does he show up when I call for him or need help? No.”

Then what is the actual fucking point of god and this life? If he just does what he wants and his plan will come fruition regardless, and nothing I do can change that then what is the point?

The older I get, the angrier I become. I can’t fucking stand it. I cannot fucking stand it anymore. I only hope this latest war levels this fucking world. It is just a realm of punishment and I’m sick of it.

So many regrets, so many bad memories, so many body memories. Missed opportunities and decades of self doubt and isolation.

I cannot stand this place.
I cannot stand this fucking life much longer.
I hate it, love is a false doctrine. Life starts with rape at 5 years old and ends at 51 living in a spare room with a bad back.

I don’t know what to do, I came here for answers and the truth is I’m filled with fucking rage. All of the the fucking time. All of the time. Even when I sleep.
I think I’m going insane.
Man I’m sorry your so angry BUT I TOTALLY GET IT. Believing in God and seeing how he abused me then dumped me made me suicidal. (I believe God has ultimate authority therefore plans and directs ALL that happens). I don’t give God credit for just the good stuff the. Blame Satan for the bad…nope…God is responsible for it all. So, to save my life (for my wife and kids) I had to completely back away from him. Best thing I’ve done for myself in years. Seriously!
 

DavidM-LT

Staff member
Man I’m sorry your so angry BUT I TOTALLY GET IT.
Here here!


But that aside, I'm really sorry that you feel that way about God, Eric. Everyone does need to find their own way to survive though.
Please forgive me for pointing one thing out:
(I believe God has ultimate authority therefore plans and directs ALL that happens).
From what I've understood (and I've not studied it, so I say this with appropriate caution), this is much more a Muslim understanding of Allah.
But that it is absolutely not at all the Judeo-Christian understanding of God.

Just as an example: You can teach and guide your kids all you like. Even do it perfectly. Once they are an adult, they're responsible for their own decisions. Should they commit a crime, you bear no responsibility. (Of course assuming that you're not an accomplice).

One of the most powerful gifts we all received is free will. The same holds true for our abusers. Just like with the fallen angels. They had a choice, and they chose to turn away from God.
 

Blueshawk

Registrant
I believe God has ultimate authority therefore plans and directs ALL that happens
Hey Eric, I've wondered why God didn't stop what happened to me, He could've, right? But that wasn't even my main question when I remembered what happened, I never blamed God for what the guy did, the question I had was where was God while it was happening. I'd search the memory looking for some sign, something. But I still can't blame God for what the guy did, much like I can't blame God for what Putin is doing to Ukraine. Could God stop it or any number of wicked atrocities and suffering that have happened thru history, or the ones that happened to us? Sure He could, but is He responsible for stopping people from being who they are? If He did stop every wicked act or thought, or even moreso anything that is less than holy, then we wouldn't be the people we are... we wouldn't want to be, not that way.

We learn to be the people we become thru the lives we live and the things we go thru. We also learn the reality of what's true about the things we believe, whether it's about this world or God. I'm not all that good at arguing about theology, and tbh, I don't think that's all that helpful for the questions of the heart that go deep, but there's a reality to God that can be known and experienced and embraced. Hey man, I'd encourage you that if what you backed away from wasn't the living reality and it was just words and doctrine, that you give God another chance. In any case, the wife and kids are a good thing, hope y'all are doing good.
 
this is much more a Muslim understanding of Allah.
That's a false generalization. There are as many understandings of the ways of God in Islam as there are in Christianity. And plenty of Christians see God as the controller of everything - to say it's an outlier belief of Christianity is also false.
 

Silentwar

Registrant
I had a moment of clarity today. I realised that god isn’t that bothered either way about what happens to me, which made me laugh. We must be like bed bugs to him.

I’ve also made exit plans, which I’ve done many times before. To be fair, something usually crops up that suspends those plans. But the idea of not being here creates in me an enormous amount of relief. I realise this is all very self indulgent, idealising about your own demise on a public forum. But it could go either way at the last minute and something might pull me back from the brink.
 

DavidM-LT

Staff member
That's a false generalization. There are as many understandings of the ways of God in Islam as there are in Christianity. And plenty of Christians see God as the controller of everything - to say it's an outlier belief of Christianity is also false.
Um, no.
As I mentioned about Islam, I’ve not studied it. So there very well could be clarifications and subtleties involved. The “no” is definitely in reference to your statement about Christianity.

It’s important to recognize the difference between teachings-doctrine and what individual people believe.

My apologies if it wasn’t clear, if I didn’t clearly express myself. What I wrote above was relating to doctrine and teachings. There is an unfortunate all-too-common tendency for individual people to put their own slant on teachings and then claim that x, y or z religion teaches that. Which is why I was referring to teachings.
 

CarbonTiger

Registrant
Unless a miracle happens.

Well, have the balls to stick around and find out.

Was that insensitive or me challenging your choices. Now think about it. What if you already had the miracle?! Look at it right under your nose.

Did you see it or were you distracted? Hiding? Looking away? How would you know God hasn't sent you a miracle already?

What if my message is the one fucking thing you needed to read? Its not, ...probably lol. I thought I'd try to rattle this proverbial cage. I would know a cage when I see one too. The lock is broken my friend and all you have to do is have the courage to open the broken door. Seek and you will find your miracle but don't be so deadset on it happening a specific way.

I saw a real miracle alone at night with my own two eyes. I also had another one praying to an arch-angel (cause I was being mad at the man upstairs) that saved me in an bad car accident. This sign damn near slapped me in the face. It felt good to know that reality isn't real, its made real by the mind and it cannot live without love & light.

So I say again with love, have the gall or "balls" to stick around and get that miracle. This is seeing the light side of it all.

Cheers! ❤☀シ
 

Eric66

Registrant
Hey Eric, I've wondered why God didn't stop what happened to me, He could've, right? But that wasn't even my main question when I remembered what happened, I never blamed God for what the guy did, the question I had was where was God while it was happening. I'd search the memory looking for some sign, something. But I still can't blame God for what the guy did, much like I can't blame God for what Putin is doing to Ukraine. Could God stop it or any number of wicked atrocities and suffering that have happened thru history, or the ones that happened to us? Sure He could, but is He responsible for stopping people from being who they are? If He did stop every wicked act or thought, or even moreso anything that is less than holy, then we wouldn't be the people we are... we wouldn't want to be, not that way.

We learn to be the people we become thru the lives we live and the things we go thru. We also learn the reality of what's true about the things we believe, whether it's about this world or God. I'm not all that good at arguing about theology, and tbh, I don't think that's all that helpful for the questions of the heart that go deep, but there's a reality to God that can be known and experienced and embraced. Hey man, I'd encourage you that if what you backed away from wasn't the living reality and it was just words and doctrine, that you give God another chance. In any case, the wife and kids are a good thing, hope y'all are doing good.
Thank you for taking the time and energy to respond. It shows that there are men out there who care. You’re right….”arguing” about religion is not productive so I won’t go there. I’m glad you have a good relationship with God.
 

Eric66

Registrant
I had a moment of clarity today. I realised that god isn’t that bothered either way about what happens to me, which made me laugh. We must be like bed bugs to him.

I’ve also made exit plans, which I’ve done many times before. To be fair, something usually crops up that suspends those plans. But the idea of not being here creates in me an enormous amount of relief. I realise this is all very self indulgent, idealising about your own demise on a public forum. But it could go either way at the last minute and something might pull me back from the brink.
I totally understand your exit plan. I imagine my love for my family will prevent my ever using that plan….but having it allows me to go through with therapy. It’s odd…but true. Thanks for writing.
 

Eric66

Registrant
Hey Eric, I've wondered why God didn't stop what happened to me, He could've, right? But that wasn't even my main question when I remembered what happened, I never blamed God for what the guy did, the question I had was where was God while it was happening. I'd search the memory looking for some sign, something. But I still can't blame God for what the guy did, much like I can't blame God for what Putin is doing to Ukraine. Could God stop it or any number of wicked atrocities and suffering that have happened thru history, or the ones that happened to us? Sure He could, but is He responsible for stopping people from being who they are? If He did stop every wicked act or thought, or even moreso anything that is less than holy, then we wouldn't be the people we are... we wouldn't want to be, not that way.

We learn to be the people we become thru the lives we live and the things we go thru. We also learn the reality of what's true about the things we believe, whether it's about this world or God. I'm not all that good at arguing about theology, and tbh, I don't think that's all that helpful for the questions of the heart that go deep, but there's a reality to God that can be known and experienced and embraced. Hey man, I'd encourage you that if what you backed away from wasn't the living reality and it was just words and doctrine, that you give God another chance. In any case, the wife and kids are a good thing, hope y'all are doing good.
Hey man, thanks for responding.
From my upbringing…I was taught that God know all before it happens…and that He can see that past, present, and future. (That God is not bound by “time” like we are but can freely move about….including the future).
“Free will” only applies to “man”…not God. In my understanding…”man” often applies our own limited abilities to God.
Did God not tell Joseph and Mary “to return by another route” because he knew people where waiting to harm them on their originally planned route? He did. He knows. Yet does not always reveal.
Let’s say that I knew someone was waiting to harm my friend as he walked home from the park yet I don’t tell him. Wouldn’t I be guilty of harming my friend by omission? I know I would feel guilty…because I could have helped prevent it. Therefore…isn’t God guilty by omission as well? He is in my opinion.
 

Eric66

Registrant
Hey Eric, I've wondered why God didn't stop what happened to me, He could've, right? But that wasn't even my main question when I remembered what happened, I never blamed God for what the guy did, the question I had was where was God while it was happening. I'd search the memory looking for some sign, something. But I still can't blame God for what the guy did, much like I can't blame God for what Putin is doing to Ukraine. Could God stop it or any number of wicked atrocities and suffering that have happened thru history, or the ones that happened to us? Sure He could, but is He responsible for stopping people from being who they are? If He did stop every wicked act or thought, or even moreso anything that is less than holy, then we wouldn't be the people we are... we wouldn't want to be, not that way.

We learn to be the people we become thru the lives we live and the things we go thru. We also learn the reality of what's true about the things we believe, whether it's about this world or God. I'm not all that good at arguing about theology, and tbh, I don't think that's all that helpful for the questions of the heart that go deep, but there's a reality to God that can be known and experienced and embraced. Hey man, I'd encourage you that if what you backed away from wasn't the living reality and it was just words and doctrine, that you give God another chance. In any case, the wife and kids are a good thing, hope y'all are doing good.
You’re right…we do become what we experience. My “beef” with God is that He hasn’t….despite “believing” “confessing” “praying and begging” and doing everything in my power to change to ugly stuff “I became” from those experiences I didn’t want or ask for. God has not changed those things or helped me move pst them. That has caused me to lose faith and feel abandoned. 25 years of praying, therapy, seeking…believing have gotten to nowhere. That’s just to cold hard truth. What’s up with that?
 

Eric66

Registrant
So, I have many instances where things fucked up and I’ve got it down to two things: god isn’t here or god is here and doesn’t care.
Brother I’m with you here! Totally agree and have a similar plan…though no dates to accomplish it.
For me…it wasn’t until I dropped God altogether that I began finding relief.
My last prayer was “God just leave me the fuck alone and stop directing stuff in my life”. It was very freeing. I see life now as things are what they are and God has nothing to do with it….which helps me NOT feel abandoned or ducked over by Him.
Try that? See how you feel then.
(Hey everybody…..I’m NOT trying to push post-christianity on Silentwar in any way….Just explaining how I found relief and the will to live again.).
 

Eric66

Registrant
On the contrary, whining/complaining could be a way of looking for answers. I didn’t really see you as whining. Airing frustrations and anger, looking for an explanation(s), certainly. So this very well could be the right place. Not necessarily this thread, but the spirituality section.

On the other hand the following comment:

I would respectfully say doesn’t have a place here. For sure, I’m not seeking to start a battle. But it baffles me as to why those who are anti-religion, or anti-spirituality, or anti-God come and pounce on others who are seeking, and seeking in a place that’s specifically created for things spiritual.
I thought this place was created for men who were sexually assaulted not “specifically created for things spiritual”.
 

Blueshawk

Registrant
Thank you for taking the time and energy to respond. It shows that there are men out there who care. You’re right….”arguing” about religion is not productive so I won’t go there. I’m glad you have a good relationship with God.
Hey man, there's a lotta guys here who care, probably most since everyone here has gone thru something hard and is still dealing with it.

I probably could've said it better than arguing. There's guys who are good at discussing theology and they're really smart and it's all good, I'm just not equipped that way. A lotta times it comes across as academic and I wanna know what's real and living about the things that are talked about.
From my upbringing…I was taught that God know all before it happens…and that He can see that past, present, and future. (That God is not bound by “time” like we are but can freely move about….including the future).
Yeah that's one of those theological ideas, I think I've heard more that God is outside time but in the present as well, but I had this friend who was pretty passionate that God experienced time like we do and works thru what is. I find what matters isn't the answer to that question so much as believing that God is able to bring about the future that matters to Him, otherwise what good are His promises.
“Free will” only applies to “man”…not God. In my understanding…”man” often applies our own limited abilities to God.
Yeah, a lotta times we assume God's like us, but maybe that's just missing the point of God becoming like us in Jesus, or His promise of us becoming like Him in Christ.
Did God not tell Joseph and Mary “to return by another route” because he knew people where waiting to harm them on their originally planned route? He did. He knows. Yet does not always reveal.
Let’s say that I knew someone was waiting to harm my friend as he walked home from the park yet I don’t tell him. Wouldn’t I be guilty of harming my friend by omission? I know I would feel guilty…because I could have helped prevent it. Therefore…isn’t God guilty by omission as well? He is in my opinion.
Maybe you've had the experience of being kept from something worse than should've happened or deserved to happen, I have enough times. It's the kinda things where you come away not just feeling lucky but more like this sense that there's more for you to do in this life.

I have kids like you do and wanna keep them from harm and suffering if I can, it's being a parent, it's what loving them is. Emotionally, I hurt when they're suffering. But one of the things that seems true about love in this world is that love at its deepest includes sacrifice and suffering, or at least allows that suffering doesn't preclude love. You don't have to be abused to know that this world is no paradise, and when love is found in this world, it's often accompanied by heartache and suffering. And when something as true and pure as God's love is real here in a world like our's, it's a battle and there's suffering that goes with it. At least for me, that's what makes sense about Jesus coming here and being crucified, not that God didn't love Jesus but that He loved us enough to send Him here and Jesus loved us enough to come and die for us.

I know that's not enough to explain why God acts or doesn't act to rescue. There's a story where Jesus says something that offends people and they pick up stones to kill Him but Jesus walks right thru unharmed, no one throws a stone and the bible says that it wasn't His time. The Bible tells about the times His disciples escaped being killed, but history tells us about that they all finished their life here being martyred in brutal ways.

There's some verses that I've kept that have helped make sense of the things I go thru. One says to "count it all joy whenever you fall into various trials..." and the other says "we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only that, we rejoice in our sufferings..." Both verses follow with this, that sufferings and the testing of your faith produces patient endurance. That makes sense to me, that sufferings are part of this deal but they're not the point or the goal, patient endurance is as a reality of who you are in this world.
You’re right…we do become what we experience. My “beef” with God is that He hasn’t….despite “believing” “confessing” “praying and begging” and doing everything in my power to change to ugly stuff “I became” from those experiences I didn’t want or ask for. God has not changed those things or helped me move pst them. That has caused me to lose faith and feel abandoned. 25 years of praying, therapy, seeking…believing have gotten to nowhere. That’s just to cold hard truth. What’s up with that?
Hey man, I hear you, I've battled same sex attractions most of my married life, in some ways it seems like a defining thing in my life cause it's been that kinda battle, being drawn to what you hate. It's been this battle for decades but it was only about 5 years ago that the memory of being molested at 16 came back, it was triggered reading something a pastor friend had written titled "Grace Filled Sexuality". How's that for irony? It's only been a year or so that the thought occurred to me that my ssa might have something to do with what happened at 16. Could God have let that memory come back sooner? Yeah, but maybe I couldn't have handled it sooner. I certainly didn't handle it well when I remembered. It was a huge challenge to faith, at the time it felt alone, like dying.

I don't have it all together, I'm here at MS too. But what I've found with faith over the years trying to process ssa in particular is this hunger to know and experience the reality of the spiritual things I've heard and read. They're more than just doctrines if they're true and real. The challenge of faith for me isn't just believing doctrines, it's loving God's truth in the doctrines, that believing is a matter of the heart. I'm gonna stop, I'm not much good at preaching anyway, but here if ya wanna talk.
 

Eric66

Registrant
Brother, I don’t have a specific reply to any of the scripture or quotes you mentioned but rather a general knowing that I’ve gleaned over years of study (I have a Masters in Christian Education,,,so NOT a big deal), years on the mission field, and years in the pastorate. I don’t like what I’ve seen in the unreliability of God. I’ve had to make FAR too many excuses for God. The longer I served him the less I liked him. I’m sad I waisted so much time trying to “believe” that now it makes me sick. I’m happy for those who haven’t discovered the reality of Him. Like I’ve lost my innocence in Christianity and can never get it back. I’m not angry..just sad about it. I’m certainly more free now, however. It’s better for me.
 
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