I've just split up with him and feel like shit

[Bubbles]

Hi

Don't really know if anyone can give me any advice, or if I'm even looking for any. I just feel so confused and miserable right now and completely torn between my conflicting thoughts and feelings. But, I'm sure there are a lot of partners that have been through the same thing and can maybe explain how they managed to resolve relationship problems or if they decided that it was too much and how they managed to leave their partners. In any case, maybe it would just do me some good to let out some of my feelings, I've got no-one else to talk to (except my partner/ex) and he's the reason why I'm feeling the way I do, so I can't really talk to him about it.

I've just recently split up with my partner of 10 yrs. I love him, he's a lovely person, kind, sensitive, would do anything for me, but I just feel that his problems, the things he's done in the past are having a really negative effect on me. My self esteem, which has always been quite low, is now virtually non existent. I know I shouldn't be blaming that on anyone else, I should take responsibility for my own confidence, but it's difficult to do that when I have my own issues to deal with and I allow him to have a negative influence on me.

It's so confusing because a) he's such a great person, good dad etc and b) because we've had a bad relationship history. I have been terrible at times to him. I have problems getting close to anyone, opening up to them and showing my feelings. Anytime I was upset with him I couldn't tell him, I could only show it through anger. Luckily, I've managed to improve a bit. I used to be violent towards him when I couldn't deal with my feelings (something which I know is very wrong).

My heart says, give it another go, really making an effort, showing him the love and affection that I've never really done and which he desperately wants, help him overcome his problems, be patient with him, let him know I'm proud of him etc. My head says, get rid of him, he'll only drag you down, you don't need all this shit in your life, you can never really trust him, he'll always be a liar, you'll never really know him etc etc.

Sorry, this post is a bit back to front, I should've probably explained this bit first. Even though I know he'd never intentionally hurt me, he'd be there for me anytime I needed him, he does genuinely love me, deep down he's a really good person with a good heart, he scares me. Not as in hurting me, he'd never do that, I feel scared that he's capable of hurting me without even knowing it, scared that I don't really know what he's thinking, scared of his 'dark side', scared that the person I see as being so lovely and caring has had thoughts/fantasies which I can't really deal with.

I don't know if he has a sex obsession or not. I know that most men, and a lot of women, look at porn, have fantasies etc, but with him it's different. Maybe I'm thinking the worst, but surely it's not healthy to be with someone and wonder if you're really satisfying them, wondering if they're bored, wanting to live out all their fantasies etc.

I want to be able to trust him, fulfill all his needs/desires, but with everything that's gone on all I really feel is inferior. Half the time I understand why he's a bit sexually obsessed, other times I feel like an idiot as if I'm making excuses for him and that I'm putting myself down for staying with him and feeling like this.

We have tried, over the past 8 months or so, to really start again. This was after I found out a few facts that I didn't know about, one of them being that he'd slept with 3 prostitues. I did my best to understand why he did this. He told me it wasn't personal, it wasn't anything to do with me. And, after posting here and receiving some excellent replies (which really did make me understand), I felt a bit better and didn't take it so personally. But, even though I could understand him (the best I could), it doesn't really make things easier to deal with. I know he loves me, thinks I'm gorgeous, looks up to me etc, I still know what's going on in his mind at times. Maybe I'm not right all the time, but I know that when he gets depressed he uses fantasies to escape. I know this has nothing to do with me, when I can't cope I turn to drink which is something he hates me doing. This is my way of dealing with things, it has nothing to do with my love for him, and I suppose what he does is just the same.

I haven't really explained what he's actually done to hurt me, reduce my confidence etc. He just seems a bit obsessed by sex. After the first couple of years together (when he treated me like a princess), things started going downhill, he'd go out more, getting drunk all the time, partying etc. I suppose this was a normal reaction for a 21 yr old who's a bit scared of the responsibility of having a child. Resentment set in and we weren't as close, this was when he started using sex lines. I didn't think anything of it at the time. Years later, when things weren't really any better, we got a computer, then it was looking at porn, going into swingers chatrooms, talking to girls online. Again, at the time we weren't close, I was still hurt, but couldn't really blame him as I wasn't giving him affection let alone sex. He's also been to a fetish club and took part in some bondage (apparantly he didn't like it), he told me he went but didn't tell me that he took part. I found this out about 2 yrs later when I saw a picture on the internet.

Well, I've really been trying recently to have a proper relationship. But, every so often I remember things that he's done. I don't know the real him anymore. He can be at my house being the best dad ever playing with our child, being the most romantic, unselfish lover and then I'll remember that this isn't the real him. Well, it is, or it should be if he wasn't so fucked up by all his problems.

Basically, I know that he wants me, he wants us to be a normal happy family (just like I do too), but I also understand that problems don't just vanish. I can't stop thinking that he wants more, wants to live out some of his fantasies. When I bring things up all he says is 'I thought you said you understood', which I do, problem is I maybe understand too much now. I've read a lot of posts on the male survivors board, and I know the terrible effects it can have on you guys, I know they can cause long lasting problems and totally change you as a person, your outlook on life etc.

Maybe if I didn't have so many problems myself I could cope better. It makes me angry that underneath all the shit, we're both really nice, sensitive people, who have a lot of strong feelings for each other, but we've both been landed with shit that has totally messed us up.

I think our very different attitudes to sex is the main problem. I know that when we're together sexually, we're both happy and fulfilled. I just feel that his mind's been conditioned very differently from mine. He doesn't see sex like me, as an ultimate display of love, something that's special (which is perfectly understandable). He sees showing emotions, speaking to people and opening himself up to me as something that's really special. People with very opposing views are always going to have problems, aren't they?

In a sense I'm grateful that he's never had an affair. That would mean him getting close to someone, something that he values over sex. So, if he's been with prostitues it means nothing to him, apparantly he didn't even do it for the sex (which, again I understand).

I feel a bit uncomfortable with the issue of sex around him, talking about it, watching it on tv etc. If I see a programme about prositutes or something about kinky sex, bondage etc, I feel really uneasy. With anyone else, i.e. a 'normal guy' (no offence to anyone as I don't consider myself normal either) it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know what to do for the best. I feel torn. I believe that if I gave him all the love that I can, made up for all the bad times and showed him that he is worth something, I think this would have a great impact on him. Improve his self esteem, which is also lacking a great deal, and show him the love and admiration that he's never really had. But, in doing this I'd be taking a big risk, I could be setting myself up for more hurt. What if I'm wrong, and this isn't enough for him?

Apart from that I think I deserve a bit more as well. I think he should be giving me a bit more just now. I know he doesn't like to think about the past, he's totally ashamed and doesn't like to think of the hurt that he's caused me. But, I need that extra effort from him just now, or I'll never get over things.

Apologies for this mess of a post, I've had a really bad weekend and I'm really quite drunk. Is it really worth giving him another chance? Surely sex obsessions don't just vanish, or do they when you feel as though you've got the support you've never really had? Do I take this risk, when I'm already on the edge myself?

Do SA survivors only act out or degrade themselves when they're down, or is it a compulsion?

Actually, just remembered something else. When we were getting on great, I went out for a while, leaving him on my computer (which I haven't done for ages as he was banned lol), on my return I found out he was on some porn sites. So, I think I've just answered my own question, it's a compulsion. I had left him for 30 minutes, after being the most loving I could, great sex etc, but he still felt the need to go looking for porn. Therefore, I don't think the problem lies with me or things that I've done, he will still feel the need to have these sexual thoughts. Again, it's not actually the porn that's the problem (if you know what I mean), it's as if it's an addiction, that they can't control.

Well, I'm sorry this has been so long and hasn't made much sense. For me, it's been a bit of a release. I just feel so sad that someone I love and know is a great person has to resort to things that degrade him, make him lose his family, especially when I know that's what he wants more than anything. It's what I want too, and yet I'm just as bad, I resort to alcohol because it's so much easier. I have just read over this post (with beer goggles on lol), and I can see that what I'm doing is exactly what he's doing (just in a different way), we're both hurting each other unintionally. (because we're both hurting and are trying to cope in the only way that we know how). If only we could just be together and fight things together in a more positive way.

 

Bubbles,

I am not, of course, a partner of a survivor, but I can understand.

First and foremost you must take care of yourself. As a survivor, I cannot allow my abuse to be an excuse. It isn't.

Is what he has done a compulson? Yes. He is acting out. I have done the same.

But you are justly hurt by his stepping out on you.

Perhaps counseling with you two together would help.

I'm no expert, but it sounds like the both of you could benefit from that.

I hope that you find your own peace with this, my sister. I wish I could be of more help.

Marc

 

[Bubbles]

Thank you for your response. I didn't really expect one to. I was just rambling on about a few feelings, letting some stuff out etc, not really making much sense.

But, it's very appreciated that you have replied. We have tried counselling. It felt like I had to at least try it, make that one last effort. Unfortunately, as the counsellor said, we already know where we're going wrong etc. She was surprised that we knew so much, i.e. where we were going wrong, what we had to do to improve things. She was confused as to how to advise us lol. I'm not surprised really, it's hard for someone who doesn't have knowledge of individual problems to help us. She was the one that was supposed to guide us, tell us where we were going wrong and what to do about it. But, I seemed to be the one telling her what was wrong, so, therefore, she couldn't really tell me anything that I didn't already know. God, poor counsellor, she's a volunteer and is probably already running away from the position after meeting us lol.

Hopefully I will sort myself out. I'm a mess right now and have, no doubt, come across that way. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. Thank you xxx

 

[SAR]

Bubbles

You talk about your own past relationship mistakes and abuse of your partner like all of that is over and done with, in the past. I am sure that you want it to stay in the past because now you regret the hurt you caused him. In your heart you know that you can do better, and that your partner was not really the cause of them, rather you are to blame for the inappropriate ways in which you've acted. You'd probably like him to focus on the improvements you've made and your attempts to be honest and do better, when he thinks of your past. I'm sure you love him and it hurts you to think that his already fragile self-esteem has been further damaged by what you've done.

If you think it sounds reasonable when you are the one at fault and your boyfriend is the one who's been hurt, and if he's been willing to forgive and try to start fresh, then isn't it reasonable when you're talking about his actions that have hurt you as well?

We take the risk of being hurt every time we share ourselves with, and care about, someone else. If you're ever going to do that in your life again, why shouldn't it be with a man who you know loves you and your child, and has already been with you for ten years?

I think counselling is a good idea too, but I don't know if you should be going as a couple. It would probably help you and your relationship (and your child) a great deal if you could get your drinking and communication issues sorted out a bit without the additional complication of the relationship and its problems. Maybe your boyfriend could do the same, and when the two of you are individually healthier, you might make some better progress in couples counselling.

Good luck
SAR

SAR

 

[Lloydy]

Bubbles
There's a lot going on here, but you know that anyway.

Firstly, find a different counsellor.

She was the one that was supposed to guide us, tell us where we were going wrong and what to do about it. But, I seemed to be the one telling her what was wrong, so, therefore, she couldn't really tell me anything that I didn't already know.

It shouldn't make any difference to the counsellor how much you might or might know, or even if it is right or wrong. A good counsellor encourages you to find, and act upon, your own answers and ideas.
The process should create an environment and attitude where you figure it out, not one where they give you some answers.

Do SA survivors only act out or degrade themselves when they're down, or is it a compulsion?

It was both with me, and still is a bit.
You already know some of why he does these things, the abuse has imprinted onto his ideas of how sex 'should be' - in his subconcious mind.
In his concious mind he knows how it really 'ought to be', but the overlap and confusion blur everything.
Our whole set of "ideas" concerning sex are distorted, they can be altered, but it takes a lot of hard work and comittment. It's worth it though.

Take care
Dave

 

[theo]

bubbles,
your post resonates so much with me. i am a male survivor of csa who has also survived a divorce and another loss of one i loved. i cannot give you the answers for the behavior of your boyfriend. all i can say is froom my own experience of abuse and loss. my mariage ended four years ago because my former wife had issues of her own. i am not innocent, i contributed to the demise of that relationship through my behavior of which i did not understand at the time (i only became aware of my own survivorhood two years after she left me). i met a wonderful woman after i was able to start rebuilding my life from the loss of my marriage. during the 18 mths, i had binged nightly on beer, and tried to escape via porn on the internet. i finally accepted it was over and started to rebuild my life, when i met lady theo. this is over, now, for many reasons, but we were both trying to build a better life together.

all i can say regarding your bf is that as a survivor, we men are susceptible to things we would not consider otherwise in our right minds. i do not justify the mistakes i have made with lady theo in my poor judgment of distress...those were my decisions, however skewed they were at the time. alli can say is that had i been in my right mind, i would have been able to overcome the drive to make such a poor judgment. no excuse, but, i can say that we survivors have tried. yes, in our paiin we have hurt those we loved the most, but i can assure you that we would not have if we could have controlled it. bottom line? we all make a choice. for some, it is not possible to continue, and that is ok. for others, only heaven fully knows.

follw your heart and your mind. together, they will lead you to safety, and peace.

 

[PAS]

Originally posted by Bubbles:
[QB] Hi

>>> maybe explain how they managed to resolve relationship problems or if they decided that it was too much and how they managed to leave their partners.

Its a personal decision everyone has their own breaking point. But there are some definite absolute NON STARTERS that cannot happen in a relationship - including a) sex with others (unless both of you have accepted that this is OK with both of you, however, the emotional impact of "open relationships" over time is something that I'm not so sure about) b) physical or emotional abuse c) active addictions of any kind

I think your partner has both a) and c) going on and to me, I think you have done the right thing. These are absolutely NOT healthy and have NO place in a relationship. If you continue to put up with that then eventually YOU will wind up depressed and messed up..

>>>My self esteem, which has always been quite low, is now virtually non existent. I know I shouldn't be blaming that on anyone else, I should take responsibility for my own confidence, but it's difficult to do that when I have my own issues to deal with and I allow him to have a negative influence on me.

Smart observation... good for you.


>>>It's so confusing because a) he's such a great person, good dad etc and b) because we've had a bad relationship history. I have been terrible at times to him. I have problems getting close to anyone, opening up to them and showing my feelings.

And I'm sure that's why you were attracted to someone in the first place who you could only get "so close" to.. anyone who could get really close would have scared you off. I'm like that too, which is why I get into these "half" relationships sometimes.. where I can tolerate a certain amount of distancing because it makes ME feel safe too.

>>>Anytime I was upset with him I couldn't tell him, I could only show it through anger. Luckily, I've managed to improve a bit. I used to be violent towards him when I couldn't deal with my feelings (something which I know is very wrong).

Definitely. Its hard - its a "feeling powerless" thing which my fiance does to me a lot. It must be hard to feel that you have no control and that you're helpless and hopeless, and the only way to dispel that energy is through anger and violence.

>>>Sorry, this post is a bit back to front, I should've probably explained this bit first. Even though I know he'd never intentionally hurt me, he'd be there for me anytime I needed him, he does genuinely love me, deep down he's a really good person with a good heart, he scares me. Not as in hurting me, he'd never do that, I feel scared that he's capable of hurting me without even knowing it, scared that I don't really know what he's thinking, scared of his 'dark side', scared that the person I see as being so lovely and caring has had thoughts/fantasies which I can't really deal with.

Thats a hard one. I struggle with that one myself. Luckiliy for my my fiance is a really CRAPPY liar. AND he keeps a journal laying around, where he confides his utmost secrets. I have to admit to reading it from time to time - I think without that thing (he'd KILL me if he knew I read it) I'd probably have left him out of mistrust. At least I know he's doing nothing more than masturbating/some porn.. which I can deal with (I dont know of any guy who's NOT rented porn and masturbated from time to time!!).

>>>I don't know if he has a sex obsession or not. I know that most men, and a lot of women, look at porn, have fantasies etc, but with him it's different. Maybe I'm thinking the worst, but surely it's not healthy to be with someone and wonder if you're really satisfying them, wondering if they're bored, wanting to live out all their fantasies etc.

YOu have to look at your own self esteem in this one - be careful to address the issues that are YOURS (self esteem) and those that are his (possible sex addiction). And even if he has an "issue" with sex/addiction, that you have to be OK with your self worth and your attractiveness, etc.

>>>I want to be able to trust him, fulfill all his needs/desires, but with everything that's gone on all I really feel is inferior.

Again - part of this I think is partly YOUR issue with respect to your self esteem. If that was massively improved, would you feel as inferior? I doubt it. YOu'd be able to say "hey dude, that's not for me, and if you want me to do something thats out of bounds as far as my preferences, comfort zone, or morals, then you can kiss my ass".

>>>Half the time I understand why he's a bit sexually obsessed, other times I feel like an idiot as if I'm making excuses for him and that I'm putting myself down for staying with him and feeling like this.

No you're not. You're being human. Everyone wants to feel needed and loved, you've got history with this guy, nobody finds saying goodbye an easy thing, even if the guy was the nastiest ass in the world, there's always some kind of grief involved. You're not insane. I've been there.

>>>We have tried, over the past 8 months or so, to really start again. This was after I found out a few facts that I didn't know about, one of them being that he'd slept with 3 prostitues.

That kind of behaviour is an absolute NON starter in a relationship. If he's still currently acting out this way (and sleeping with prostitutes for a SA survivor is CLASSIC "acting out behaviour") this is an absolute NON starter. It puts you in danger (prostitites have high risk of having HIV/AIDS/HEP C) and its completely denigrating behaviour for him. He will have to do a lot of work to transform sex from something that is a shaming and denigrating act - which is likely what he is doing by having sex with prostitutes, into where sex really SHOULD be - something to express love and bonding and closeness. Yes - his SA has totally twisted up that love-sex-shame-intimacy thing, and he will have to fight it, but until he's in a better place and a) not sleeping with prostitutes anymore b) admitting to his sexual acting out and c) getting help for it, YOU are indeed, not safe. Not physically safe, not emotionally safe.

>>>I did my best to understand why he did this. He told me it wasn't personal, it wasn't anything to do with me. And, after posting here and receiving some excellent replies (which really did make me understand), I felt a bit better and didn't take it so personally.

Yes - indeed it has NOTHING to do with you WHY he did it, but if he is STILL doing it while with you, or still has a risk of doing it now, then you are NOT safe. You have to be sure that he'll stop that behaviour and get help. That should be an absolute non-negotiable if you do decide to get back together with him, if ever.

>>>But, even though I could understand him (the best I could), it doesn't really make things easier to deal with.

No it doesnt. IT should lift any burden of responsibility from your shouldres, but it does NOT take away the scariness of the situation, and how unsafe it is for him and for you.

>>I know that when he gets depressed he uses fantasies to escape.

That's a typical cping technique for an abuse survivor - I used to have all kinds of fantasies (not sexual) when I was being abused.. its a way to survive the abuse when in an abuse situation. Unfortunately its not easy to shut it off when you're NOT in an abuse situation. The conditioning is much too powerful.

>>>I know this has nothing to do with me, when I can't cope I turn to drink which is something he hates me doing. This is my way of dealing with things, it has nothing to do with my love for him, and I suppose what he does is just the same.

Indeed it is. You should really look at that "turning to drink" thing more seriously. My dad did that and he raised 2 kids (me included) that have major issues today as far as "adult children of alcoholics". YOu say you have a child - please think of the consequences of your alcohol use on yourself and your kids. Its all to easy to use alcohol to temporary medicate yourself and have it turn into a full blown case of alcoholism.

>>>I haven't really explained what he's actually done to hurt me, reduce my confidence etc. He just seems a bit obsessed by sex.

The fact that he slept with prostitutes, and may be putting some subtle or not so subtle pressure on you to go outside your comfort zone with respect to sexual behaviour is scary enough. SA for kids can include being shown porn, being talked to by adults about sexual situations, etc. without even having touched the child. So I can totally understand why this would be scary for you. Its a threat to your emotional safety in the relationship and its serious. Dont doubt your feelings of fear and unease on this one - trust your gut feeling, it wont steer you wrong.

>>>After the first couple of years together (when he treated me like a princess), things started going downhill, he'd go out more, getting drunk all the time, partying etc.

Thats a big issue - its a block to the relationship, its not putting you first, its indeed some pretty immature behaviour.

>>>I suppose this was a normal reaction for a 21 yr old who's a bit scared of the responsibility of having a child. Resentment set in and we weren't as close

Thats a normal reaction by you to what was going on.. I would say.

>>>this was when he started using sex lines. I didn't think anything of it at the time. Years later, when things weren't really any better, we got a computer, then it was looking at porn, going into swingers chatrooms, talking to girls online. Again, at the time we weren't close, I was still hurt, but couldn't really blame him as I wasn't giving him affection let alone sex.

>>>>>

There is absolutely NO responsibility that a woman has to keep her man 'satisfied' in order to prevent him from straying. That is and wil ALWAYS be the responsibility of the man. And for ANY man to blame his wife for not keeping him satisifed as the reason why he strayed, cheated (and going to chatlines and swingers lines, etc is absolute bullshit. Its passing the buck, blaming the victim, and its totally and utterly WRONG.


>>> He's also been to a fetish club and took part in some bondage (apparantly he didn't like it), he told me he went but didn't tell me that he took part. I found this out about 2 yrs later when I saw a picture on the internet.

I would feel pretty upset if i heard my fiance did that. I'd probably be sick to my stomach. He's in a relationship with you - if he wants to do that crap he should at least do the decent thing and break it off and then go explore that side of him. he can't have his cake and eat it too.

>>>>Well, I've really been trying recently to have a proper relationship. But, every so often I remember things that he's done. I don't know the real him anymore. He can be at my house being the best dad ever playing with our child, being the most romantic, unselfish lover and then
I'll remember that this isn't the real him.

I would say that that probably IS the real him. But unfortunatley the FALSE him (the sex obsesed one) is stil very much alive.

>>>Basically, I know that he wants me, he wants us to be a normal happy family (just like I do too), but I also understand that problems don't just vanish.

NO they dont. And they wont for him until he admits what he's doing is wrong, STOPS the sexual acting out, and gets help. And thats going to be hard to do - if he's still an active "user" just like an alcoholic they'll do anyting to convince themself that the unhealthy behaviour is not bad for them. Alcoholics will go to the ends of the earth to keep their bottle. The substance (or the act, in the case of a sex addict) really DOES help them calm down, to keep their cool, to keep the "piggly wigglies" (as i call my anxities) at bay. When you dont have your substance (I have an issue with food addiction that i"m battling right now) it is the scariest thing in the world.. the anxiety level goes right THROUGH THE ROOF. Which is why I think that every addiction should be treated by a doctor - to get you some medication/therapy to get you over the initial anxieties and on to a more healthy, non-using/non-acting out state.

>>>I can't stop thinking that he wants more, wants to live out some of his fantasies. When I bring things up all he says is 'I thought you said you understood', which I do, problem is I maybe understand too much now.

its one thing ot understand, its another thing to be ok with it. You have every right to renegotiate with him, to tell him that you understand but you do NOT accept it, and you cannot put up with that type of stuff in a relatinship. And he will probably freak out at you for it, but thats what happens when you renegotiate a boundary that was never acceptable for you..the person who's boundary that needs "renegotiation" will probably react quite strongly to the request... expect it, be ready for it, and ride it out. There's not much on earth thats more scary than to renegotiate a boundary with someone who rsorts to anger and manipulation to try and get that boundary back to his own comfort zone.

>>>Maybe if I didn't have so many problems myself I could cope better.

I think you're coping amazingly in spite of everything. To be honest most ppl who dont have any personal expeirence with abuse issues generally dont have as much compassion to those who also have similar issues. They generally dont put up with ppl who continue to act-out, etc. as those of us who DO have abuse issues. I went to a real life SA partner's group last fall and ALL of us are also survivors of some kind of abuse (some of us physical, some verbal, some emotional, some psychological, some sexual).

>>>It makes me angry that underneath all the shit, we're both really nice, sensitive people, who have a lot of strong feelings for each other, but we've both been landed with shit that has totally messed us up.

My fiance and I had that meltdown last night. I dont know how spiritual you are, but when I start geting all angry I remember the passage in the bible, the "parable of the talents" - where 3 men were given bars of gold - one guy was given 10 bars, one guy was given 5, and one guy was given 1. The guy with the 10 bars invested it and came back with 100 bars and God was happy. The other guy with 5 invested it and did things with it and got 25 bars, and God was happy. The guy with one bar buried in the backyard and dug it up and gave it back saying "I preserved the one bar for you God" and God got angry. The bars of Gold were actually blessings by God and he wanted the men to take those blessings and trust God and make their life better. And God was so angry with the man who buried his one bar that he took it away and gave it to the man who had 100.

The parallel to my life is ok, I was abused as a kid. My fiance was sexually abused and neglected. We lost the other 5 bars of gold due to that experience. But we still have FIVE bars of gold and we still have a lot to live for. And God is going ot be SOME PISSED if we bury those bars in the backyard and wallow in our misery, instead of taking what HE gave us and applying it to our lives and doing something good, within our current situation.


>>> What if I'm wrong, and this isn't enough for him?

At this point its not about him. You should be living your life for YOU. It is a hellish existence to only go around this world devoting ourselves totally and completely to another person. YOu should be totaly and completely devoting your life to YOURSELF and to your higher power, whoever he or she may be.

>>Is it really worth giving him another chance?

I dont think that you should try to re-start something as long as you are continuing to drink, and he is continuing to act out. These are BOTH complete non starters


>>>Do SA survivors only act out or degrade themselves when they're down, or is it a compulsion?

Both. There's no definitive cause and effect why survivors act out in any particular way.. there's general ideas but this whole reactin/acting out thing is highly speculative at best.


>>>it's as if it's an addiction, that they can't control.

In many cases, that is absolutely correct.

>>>I'm just as bad, I resort to alcohol because it's so much easier.

PLEASE dont beat yourself up for what you are doing. You are hurting, you have had your own pains and hurts, and you are trying to deal with them in the best way you konw how at this time. I think you might invest in better ways of "easing your hurts" in a way that wont pickle your liver and give you chronic hangovers. You're doing your absolute best at this time to survive. You are a total hero. But you do need to look at more healthy ways to cope with anxiety and depression than alcohol. Its relaly unhealthy for you and for your child.


>>> If only we could just be together and fight things together in a more positive way.

Thats what a) a total commitment to change and b) a therapist is for. There ARE better ways to deal with your hurts - individually, and collectively. However, getting to that phase, that place, where you blow apart what happened, dissect it, analyze it, and start to accept it is, I'll make no bones about it, a difficult and painful process. But its necessary to cross that scary river in order to get to the "healthy side".

All in all, in this situation, remember that you cannot control your partner, but will you consider getting help for yourself? Alcohol eventually will start causing some emotional and irreparable physical problems, as well as issues of secuirty and trust for your child.

I say this as a child of an alcoholic to someone who's using alcohol to escape - will you consider going to get some support for yourself?

P

 

[PAS]

Bubbles I hope I havent offended you with my previous post. I do think that you are going through a rough time and you do deserve to treat yourself well. And I can certainly understand why ANYONE would want to numb bad feelings with alcohol.. I've done it, my fiance's done it, Im sure many of us on here have done it. Its only normal NOT to want to feel those heavy, sad feelings. There's times when the LAST thing I can handle is another depressed, anxiety-attack ridden day.

But drinking to escape is not the healthiest thing around. I'll get off my high horse about the negative health aspects of the drinking and about how it may impact your family, however, I know full well from experience that alcohol use over time can promote a really negative, depressed, helpess, skewed view of the world, that often lifts when the alcohol use is drastically lessened or stopped. Even when I go out with the girls on the very very rare "weekend bender" I feel depressed for a few days to a week afterwards. Alcohol IS a central nervous system depressant that can take awhile to get out of your system.

If nothing, give yourself a chance to start to see your situation in a different light - you may be surprised at the better feelings and the astounding insights that may come when your thinking is less clouded and depressed.

Personally I have turned to exercise, better eating and vitamins (stupid as it may sound) as my "drug" - just because you cut down on alcohol does not mean that you have to just go cold turkey - there are many other approaches and things that you can do to help quell the negative feelings and the anxiety and the anger and the depression that are actually good for you.

P

 

[Bubbles]

Pas, I'm not offended in the slightest. I really appreciate your response the the effort you took to reply to me. I had typed out a reply the other day (quite a long one, responding to everyones comments) but unfortunately managed to kick my dodgy cpu and deleted everything.

So I just wanted to respond now and say thanks very much for the replies.

Pas, what you said made a lot of sense, I know I need to get over my drinking habit. Luckily I'm at the stage where I'm not an alcoholic, I've got some control over it, it's just a bad habit. But, I know it's a dangerous situation to be in, if I don't do something quickly it could develop into a serious problem.

Since my original reply things have changed a bit. To try and summarise it, I had basically said:

I know I'm a hypocrite and have done some very bad things to him, if he can give me another chance then I should be able to as well. The only difference is, he knows when I'm acting out, he can see it and deal with it there and then. I've got to find things out by myself or be told years later.

I had responded to PAS and said that I didn't think he was still acting out. He's a good guy, does his best to build up my confidence, unlike my family or anyone else. The prostitute thing ended 4 yrs ago and I believe him when he says he hasn't been with anyone else.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him but I don't want to paint a wrong picture of him either. This is where it's so confusing. He's the nicest guy I've met, I know he loves me more than anyone and it's why I get angry when he lowers himself to this shit.

Even though I split up with him, it's something that still really hurts. He keeps saying 'I dumped him' and it's as if he's the only one suffering. I finished with him because I couldn't stand the paranoid thoughts anymore, I couldn't stand thinking that he wanted more, worrying if he'd hurt me again.

So I went to see him tonight, to pick up our child actually, and he went out. Well, because I know him so well, I went snooping about his house. found a few things that I didn't like. When I confront him, it's as if I'm to blame. Naturally, he gets all defensive (because he's ashamed), but surely it's my right to have it out with him. His answer, 'well you split up with me I can do what I want'. yeah, that's true, but I've also got the right to believe that you were buying contact magazines when we were together. His response, well we were arguing and split up.

True, our relationship is quite volatile, we split up quite frequently. I don't take it so seriously, when I split up it's my way of saying I'm not happy. I know I'm not doing things right, but if he loves me as much as he says he does, he should be putting that energy into making me happy and not phoning up sluts.

I don't know what to think anymore. I'm very instinctive, and I do believe that he does really love me and wants to do the family thing. But, I'm not so sure he can keep his fantasies in control. He says he can when we're happy. He says making love with me is the best thing ever and I totally satisfy him (which I also believe). It just seems to be when we have some problems. But, every relationship has problems, I can't live my life in fear of upsetting him or having an argument in case he goes off into his fantasy land.

What you said, Pas, about me having to deal with my self estem issues is very true. It's a big problem with me and something I need to work on.

It doesn't really help though when the person that I know loves me more than my family can shit on me. I wish he was a complete bastard to me then it'd be easier. But, he's not, he's the only one that encourages me to continue with further education, he's the one that encourages me in every way, looks out for me, is the best parent to our son, goes out his way to do the best for us. I'm torn between the 2 of his sides. Do I keep trying with him, trying to help him overcome his problems? Or do I walk away knowing that he's a nice person but in need of some help?

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to do some rambling here without being told I'm an idiot and get rid of him (as I would have been on other boards). I don't know what to do. If it's what he wanted I'd leave him alone, but I'm not convinced. After learning some stuff from here, I've said it to him, and he's looked a bit shocked (as if I was reading his mind).

I'm angry and upset. I'm in love with the nicest guy ever and he's been poisened into believing he's shit. I don't want him meeting up with strangers for sex, he's better than that. It is a lost cause trying to help him? Maybe that's what he really wants and I'm trying to hold him back?

 

[SAR]

Bubbles,

It is a lost cause trying to help anyone who does not want to be helped. It is NOT a lost cause deciding to stick with someone who wants to know how to help himself, even when he doesn't know how. We can always learn what we don't know. No one here can tell you what your boyfriend wants for himself or for your relationship, it's up to you to figure that out.

I will tell you, your words in this last post almost exactly describe my state of mind less than two years ago. And the last two years have been very, very difficult, but every day I wake up next to a guy who is finally becoming the guy he could have been all along, and it keeps getting better.

I will also tell you, I come from a house with pretty volatile parents who were unsure of each other's love, and did not separate for good until it was too late for me to get over it easily. It is not good for children to be around unstable, argumentative relationships. If you can disagree with your partner in healthy, respectful ways now and then, and compromise and make up later, that is good for children to see. The rest is not. If you and your boyfriend cannot stop fighting or splitting up and getting back together, maybe it is best to stay apart.

 

[PAS]

[QB] I don't know what to think anymore. I'm very instinctive, and I do believe that he does really love me and wants to do the family thing. But, I'm not so sure he can keep his fantasies in control.

Thats a tough one. We all have our fears about our partner I'm sure.. its all about TRUST - I am currently planning a wedding (wedding sept 25) and one of the things they made us do in the Marriage Prep. course was a "trust walk" - one of us was blindfolded and the other one of us had to guide the blind person around the church (up and down stairs, under tables, through a small obstacle course) with one arm and without speaking.

It was scary for the blind person to put their trust in their partner, and it was scary for the mute and one armed person to "take the lead". After we did the walk the priest talked about the issue of trust and how if its not there it can wreak havoc on the relationship, but how its absolutely IMPERATIVE to have trust to make a relationship work. Without it there's too much fear, anxiety and its NO way to live and build up a loving relationship. Its terrible to live in a relationship that is full of fear.

Both of you have done things to destroy trust - his sleeping with prostitutes, and whatever it is that you are admitting to... Its tough to rebuild trust when it is gone but if you are ever going to try and get back together its imperative that you spend time together doing things that will build up trust between you. Its critical in a relationship that you have the ultimate trust in someone - and its not something easily earned, its something that is easily destroyed as well, as you can well attest when you found out about your partner's involvement with prostitutes.

Anyhow if you were committed to making this relationship work and you BOTH were committed to working on trust issues (probably would require the help of a professional of some kind) it might be greatly beneficial. It certainly takes a LOAD off your mind when you know you can trust someone!! I would say that trust issues for me are the BIGGEST issues that I battle with my relationship - ive been dumped, cheated on, abused, neglected and abandoned and I find it REALLY hard to put my trust in ANYONE. Believe you-me its a heavy load to try and do EVERYTHING myself.. I also need to work on my own trust issues.

Realistically its always a gamble being with ANYONE - we never fully can get a 100% guarantee that we'll never be hurt again, that we can fully trust, we can only narrow down our chances. But in some part, there's always also a leap of faith - I cannot guarantee that my partner will never cheat, lie, or hurt me either.. but i have to take this leap of faith and BELIEVE in it or else I'll never be fully committed and never be at peace.

>>>But, every relationship has problems, I can't live my life in fear of upsetting him or having an argument in case he goes off into his fantasy land.

No - you can't. And that's back to the whole trust thing. you have to trust in him - that he'll not violate certain boundaries of behaviour. Its one thing if he forgets to take out the garbage or he never does the laundry (minor to moderate irritants) but cheating, addictions, abuse are definitely NON starters and cannot exist in any healthy relationship, it takes too much of a toll on the partner's self esteem and emotional well being to try and put up with those things.

>>What you said, Pas, about me having to deal with my self estem issues is very true. It's a big problem with me and something I need to work on.

I have found that this was the BEST thing that I ever did for myself - work on my own self esteem. I have my own abuse history to deal with - my dad is a scary, frightening, out of control, depressive/anxious alcoholic, and I've suffered verbal, psychological and emtional abuse for most of my childhood/teenager years. its been a long road for me to not believe that I was the piece of garbage, and that life wasn't this big fat horrible experience that my dad led me to believe.

I will admit as I have transferred from a life of almost non existent self esteem to where I am now (mostly functional )when self esteem is built up you set high standards for yourself and for others with respect to behaviour - and you wont settle for any less from yourself and from others, because you KNOW you will be OK whether or not those others can or will adhere to those standards. That you'll be OK as a single person, you'll be ok as a partner, single parent, etc.

>>>It doesn't really help though when the person that I know loves me more than my family can shit on me. I wish he was a complete bastard to me then it'd be easier. But, he's not, he's the only one that encourages me to continue with further education, he's the one that encourages me in every way, looks out for me, is the best parent to our son, goes out his way to do the best for us. I'm torn between the 2 of his sides. Do I keep trying with him, trying to help him overcome his problems? Or do I walk away knowing that he's a nice person but in need of some help?

Its a tough call. I think what you might eventually have to do is what I already stated - set certain boundaries and standards of how you want to be treated, and if those are violated on a regular basis, then that's it. Then you know the answer to this question.

And just in case you get hassled by your partner if you start to reassert new boundaries with him, that its NOT unreasonable to demand that your partner treat you with dignity and respect, that your partner NOT cheat on you in any way shape or form, that your partner not put your emotional or physical health at risk, that he puts in some kind of economic support to your family, etc. Those are not unrealistic demands. However, in order to expect that from another person you have to be committed to doing that yourself too... Anyhow dont let anyone try to push you back into THEIR comfort zone when you try to redefine a certain boundary that has been violated for you and is not workign for you. You have every right to demand to be treated with respect and dignity.

Anyhow.. I think that if/when you get stronger yourself that some amazing dynamics in the relationship will start to change. And maybe your decision about this relationship will be a bit easier at that point. You never know, if you start to demand better for yourself and for him he might just start to "rise up to a new standard" along with you, which would be an amazing thing - no guarantees of course but I've seen it happen!!!

And unless the emotional or physical health of you and your child is at risk (i.e. if you or your child is seriously depressed, fearful for your security, if your child is exhibiting behaviour that shows he (she?) is having trouble, you dont have to make this decision right away either.

You do have to adhere to some level of decorum and dignified, mature behaviour in front of your child, which is a MUST but if you are still unsure, maybe you're just not ready to make the decision yet, and that's ok.

>>>Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to do some rambling here without being told I'm an idiot and get rid of him (as I would have been on other boards).

Yah.. been there!!! So many ppl are so quick to say "dump him" but I agree its not always so easy.

>>>I'm angry and upset. I'm in love with the nicest guy ever and he's been poisened into believing he's shit. I don't want him meeting up with strangers for sex, he's better than that. It is a lost cause trying to help him? Maybe that's what he really wants and I'm trying to hold him back?

I dont think that deep down inside that anyone really really wants to act out - EVERY guy on here will tell you that he felt awful after he did it. What is critical is for him to start to work on things that will make him feel better than shit. Once his own self esteem improves he might not ever sink back to the level of making him feel as bad as he did when he was seeking out prostitutes.

I think that if you ever told him that "He's better than what he's doing to himself re: sleeping with prostitutues, etc. and he deserves better" you might find that he might just listen. I once told my partner that same thing - that he's BETTER than what he is giving himself (dope smoking, his anger, and his poor self esteem and his health (overeating/impulse eating) and he burst into tears and it was the most tender moment that I've ever shared with him. It certainly beats tearing a strip off him for doing things that scare you.

You really do have a good insight into what and why he is donig what he is doing it.. it doesnt give him an excuse to keep oin doing it now but you have a lot more insight than a lot of people do when it ocmes to his issues. It shows that you really do know him and you really do care about him. ANd that's a great thing to have that insight.

However you have to be careful that you are NOT his sole "helper" - its our job to be supportive YES but it is not solely our job. Its the survivors job first and foremost to get through this, to find support, to get help. We can be there beside them but we are not ever going to "heal" them. Its too big a job for us to try and do it for them, and besides, nobody ever healed from something because someone else asked them to. It ONLY works if the drive to do so comes from an inner deep seated NEED to do so.

One thing that you MUST keep in mind - even if this relationship blows apart I seriuosly doubt you'll never find anyone else who'll be supportive and loving. There ARE other people out there who are nice and loving and supportive. The key will be for YOU to be in a mind-set that you wont accept anything but mature, dignified and respectful treatment from someone else.

 

[Bubbles]

It is a lost cause trying to help anyone who does not want to be helped. It is NOT a lost cause deciding to stick with someone who wants to know how to help himself

I think he does want to be helped. Sometimes he can be a bit defensive when I bring stuff up, especially when he realises that I really understand him, or maybe even tell him things that he didn't realise. That's natural though I suppose, we don't always like admitting things to ourselves it's too painful. But, even though he hides it quite well, deep inside he's really hurting. He just wants to feel special and loved and to feel normal. He's waiting to see his psychologist again, so that's a good sign that he's attempting to get help. I'd really like to help him too, bit unsure of how to go about it though. I don't want to push him or make him feel worse by discussing certain things.

If you and your boyfriend cannot stop fighting or splitting up and getting back together, maybe it is best to stay apart.

Yep, I totally agree. We were discussing this on the phone last night, saying that it's not good for our son and he's going to be our first priority now.

the issue of trust and how if its not there it can wreak havoc on the relationship, but how its absolutely IMPERATIVE to have trust to make a relationship work.

Yeah, lack of trust is a major problem for us, and it's impossible to have a good relationship without it. It's strange though, I'd trust him with my life but I can't trust him not to unintentionally hurt me. I know sometimes we have to take a leap of faith, he's said it to me, the counsellor's said it to me, but I'm scared of taking that risk. Basically, I don't trust the unwanted thoughts that he gets I don't trust him to be strong enough to deal with them in the right way. I find it impossible to think that I could ever really trust him again.

I dont think that deep down inside that anyone really really wants to act out - EVERY guy on here will tell you that he felt awful after he did it. What is critical is for him to start to work on things that will make him feel better than shit. Once his own self esteem improves he might not ever sink back to the level of making him feel as bad as he did when he was seeking out prostitutes.

Part of me is still hanging onto that thought, thinking that if I treated him right then his behaviour would improve too. But, I also think,that no matter what I do he'll still have these problems. Even though he may be able to control it for a while (whilst he's being kept happy), it'll still be there and I won't be able to control it no matter what I do. Its such a big risk to take, I cant really handle anymore hurt.


Even though most of the time we can be good together, I can't spend my life with him knowing that he's sexualising everything. Knowing that fantasies that I don't agree with are there in his mind and could take over him at any point. The subject of sex has started becoming a big issue with me now. Sometimes I feel like a prude, even though I know I'm not! Our sex life is great, I love it, but it's gotten to the point now where I feel very uneasy with certain subjects about sex. Everywhere I look it's just sex!! If I was with him, I'd be reminded of it all the time. Everytime I saw something that I thought was a bit sleazy, I'd think of him and start to think about what he was thinking. I know I cant compete with his thoughts/fantasies.

I know what I need to do, have some space from him, time to sort my life out and gather my thoughts. I need to be stronger, it's difficult though, we stay 2 minutes away from each other and have to stay in contact because of our son. We are both as bad as each other, we get lonely and text one another. I told him I couldn't be with him, I still loved him but just couldn't take anymore, I'm destroying my life and can't handle it, but he gives me grief for it. I know he's hurting, but can't he try to understand what I'm going through? Even though I know its the best thing right now, for me anyway, to keep my distance, I feel guilty for it. I dont want to be responsible for him doing these damaging things again, but I suppose thats outwith my control. Its frustrating to think that I now understand a lot more about him, I can forgive him for a lot of things (even though they hurt like hell), and he isnt able to try to understand what Im going through. Hes actually just texted me right now asking if I was too busy for him last night. LOL, if only he knew what I was going through.

I feel really sad just now and also a bit pathetic. The person I thought I knew most of all, the person I am closest to has a side to him that I'll never know. It's so scary thinking that I lived with this person for 9 yrs and I don't even bloody know them. Maybe I am exagerating, maybe my paranoid mind is taking over and I'm imagining that he's done all sorts of things. Well, that's something that I'll probably never really find out. I also feel sad that we couldnt fight our problems together with the help of love, instead of battling them on our own and fighting against each other.

I think that if you ever told him that "He's better than what he's doing to himself re: sleeping with prostitutues, etc. and he deserves better" you might find that he might just listen.

Well, I think you're right. Anytime he's ever looked at porn, went into sleazy chatrooms etc, I told him he was a filthy disgusting pervert etc etc. I said this because I felt hurt and didn't want him to do these things. Looking back now, I can see that I was making him worse. I made him feel more ashamed, which made him feel worse and just made him do it even more. I said to him the other night, 'I pity you', and he said 'thank you'. I would have thought that he'd be angry over this, but he wasn't. And, I've been telling him recently that I don't like to see him degrading himself, that he deserves better, I'd rather see him go out and find a nice girl, someone who will treat him right and not people who don't even know his name never mind give a damn about him. I think these things maybe do get through to him (hopefully).

Sorry, I know I'm just repeating myself over and over. Everyone's given me great advice, I can't believe the effort you people have went to for me, you're great. Its a big release to just get some of my thoughts out. It's something that I never do, I keep everything in, to the point where I feel demented. My thoughts are all over the place right now, they are never consistent, arrgh! lol. I go from feeling anger, hatred, self pity to feeling more love than I've ever felt for him, compassion, understanding, wanting to help him,sadness for him, sadness over the relationship, scared of him, every emotion is felt within a very short period of time. I wish my thoughts would stop spinning, just long enough for me to have some control over them and think straightly. Today has been especially bad, I just cant stop thinking. I just want to go and get a hug from him because I feel so down and lonely, but I cant do that because hes the one thats hurting me.

Thanks everyone