Is/Was the idea of getting married frightening?

Is/Was the idea of getting married frightening?
T

Trish4850

Hi all,

My b/f and I have been together for 4 years. Were happy together and weve talked about living together and eventually getting married. We broke up for a short time in October because I found he had been cheating on me, with multiple women, through the duration of our relationship. The devastation that followed was awful, for both of us. It was my discovery of this that prompted him to seek therapy for the s/a he suffered as a child. He, and we, have had quite a bumpy road since then, but were are committed to seeing it through.

I love this man with all of my heart. He knows that in his head, but has real difficulty in believing it in his heart. I know this is familiar to many of you. We talk about the csa and about our relationship and what its done to him and to us. Each conversation is both enlightening and devastating. What amazes me is that for as much as he trusts me, I sometimes feel he doesnt trust me at all. He is still so afraid of me. Thats a hard admission for me to make and an even harder one to understand.

Our friends and even total strangers comment on our closeness. Friends bust our chops for not being married already and we usually laugh and joke about it. He fakes running away, I grab him and tell him its too late, I found him and Im keeping him, follow by a kiss and a laugh. This happens repeatedly. This past Saturday night, while we were out, the same scenario was being played out, but this time, it seemed to upset him. When we got home, he told me he felt like I was pressuring him. I was hurt, but all I did was apologize and hold him; pressure is the last thing I want him to feel from me. We then got into conversations about the s/a. Lots there this weekend, but I dont have the right words at this moment.

I admit it, yes, I want to live together and I want to marry him. Thats no secret and hasnt been for years. BUT, Im on no time table. Im not a youngster, Im not pregnant, dont want to be, and Im not trying to escape from anything. Im a 42 year old woman who owns her own home, Ive raised my daughter and Im now putting her through college. I have a good career and make a comfortable salary. I just want to be with the man I love. Its that simple, for me. But for him, its the most complicated concept.

Im upset now because I know I dont pressure him, but the light hearted banter we enjoyed before seems to now be off-limits because he perceives it as pressure. I dont know where to go with this. I will be there 110% for him, Ill listen, Ill cry, Ill hold him, Ill do anything he needs but I cant change who I am and how I respond to things. If a friend is goofing around and says enough already, its been 4 years, I have to agree and join in the fun. The hard thing is, he does too so it seems to be OK and then I get told its pressure! How the hell do I deal with that?!

Everything he does and most of what he says tells me that he wants the same thing I do. We are renovating parts of his home together. We sit and design what we want, we shop, we look at catalogs, he defers to me on decorating ideas and he refers to his house as OURS, with no prompting from me. Talk about mixed messages!

Im just at a loss and more confused than even I want to admit.

ROCK ON..........Trish
 
Hey Trish,

We've been together for eight and a half years and still aren't married. I know what you mean.

We have two kids together, if someone at his job says "Your wife is here" or uses his last name with me, I don't make a big deal out of it.

The teasing banter from our friends has mostly evolved into respect. At this point we are secure enough and have enough "evidence" on our side-- I think most of our friends just want a relationship like the one we have. (does that sound really nasty? I don't mean it...)

For most of that time, I was the one not wanting to talk about marriage, but it had nothing to do with him, it had to do with my concerns about marriage and what it meant. No mixed messages but I can see how he might have taken it that way. That has changed some. We'll probably be married in another year or two.

I have to go... hang in there...

SAR
 
SAR,

You're never nasty and I know what you mean. Friends, family and strangers are envious of our relationship. I love our relationship. For a while, we both had the "why fix it if it ain't broke" mentality, but now.......

You and your b/f live together; that's the difference between what you have and what I don't. It's not the piece of paper that says we're married, although I eventually want that, it's that we still very much live separate lives which is what I don't want.

*sigh* OK, now I feel whiny.

ROCK ON......Trish
 
Trish,

Mixed messages, that's for sure! I wonder if your bf is just very insecure and unsure of his ability to cope with this next big step. It's something he wants, but finds it difficult to talk about it and face his fears. Survivors often suffer from very low confidence in themselves and find it very easy to find fault with themselves. If a survivor is still wondering if what happened to him as a boy was his fault, if he still sees the abuse as a failed relationship rather than as a crime against his person, then he is all the more likely to see all this as having very dire implications for his chances of sustaining a proper relationship as an adult. So the further the adult relationship proceeds, the closer he feels to making a mess of it.

This comes back, in a way, to the problem of everything plodding along according to the survivor's timeline and recovery issues. I think one has to take that into account, of course, but that doesn't mean that the discussion should just not occur at all. After all, you are decorating a house together! Isn't that fact already part of a "discussion"?

Only you can decide how to handle this, but I were the confused and hesitant boyfriend I think what I would need to hear would be that while you don't expect an immediate decision the question of living together is already very much "on the table". Referring to it just acknowledges that fact.

Much love,
Larry
 
Hi Trish

You dont sound whiny. We've been together 10 years, he envisages a life of us together with kids and marriage but just can't actually do it. Too many reasons to mention but none that would surprise anyone on this site.

The not living together is a hard one and I feel for you. Couples councelling??

Lots of love

Tracy
 
Trish,

Maybe he is not newly vulnerable to the idea of committing to you, but just a little raw in general lately.

It's hard to start recognizing and processing feelings after ignoring them for so long. I never thought my boyfriend could be more defensive-- but he was, about some things, once he really started listening to his feelings-- which makes sense.

If a friend is goofing around and says enough already, its been 4 years, I have to agree and join in the fun.
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What if this is the real problem?
Do you HAVE to join in the fun?
Maybe he wants you to say to your friends that the two of you are fine for the moment and that you aren't worried about him going anywhere.
Maybe he has been wanting this for the last two years and never let himself acknowledge it before.

Personally, if my boyfriend disagreed with me about something I thought, he could talk about it day and night in private and I wouldn't get upset-- but if another friend of ours came over and started making comments, and my boyfriend disagreed with me to our friend, the same stuff that wouldn't bother me privately would hurt me a lot. I want to know that he thinks of us as a team, and presents us that way to others.

S
 
Larry & Tracy,

We seem to talk about everything SURROUNDING my moving in, but not the actual fact of it. He's gone so far as to ask me when I'm moving in! My response? - when he asks me to. I know that will be a hard thing for him to do, but I can't very well just start moving in without knowing that he really wants me to. If he asked me when I'm moving in and I said in two weeks, the poor guy would probably have a stroke. He wants me there yet he doesn't want me there. I can't push him because it's not only the wrong thing to do, it's not in my nature to do. You either want me or you don't. Grrrrrrrr.

SAR - He is more defensive about some things but he's actually letting me see, sometimes, if he's bothered, saddened or pissed off at something. He never did that before; he just always said everything is OK. Just last Friday was his last day on a job that he liked, but he left it to start his own company. He's happy as a lark to be on his own, so when I asked if he was a little sad to leave XYZ company, I expected the stock, "I'm fine," answer. Instead, he actually admitted that he was a little sad. Sounds strange, but I was at first shocked and then happy that he made that admission not only to himself, but to me.

This whole feeling thing, and admitting that those feelings exist, is new to him. I'll bet he is pretty raw.

You make an excellent point and I'll take your advice to the wall. When friends start teasing, I'm usually quiet until my b/f pipes in with something, and then off I go. Next time, I'll shut the conversation down just the way you suggested and see what happens. It's a very good idea and not hard to follow because it's the truth.

You guys are the best. Thanks.

ROCK ON............Trish
 
Trish,

I think SAR is zeroing in on something really important when she talks about feelings. It took me forever to reengage with my feelings, which I had shut down as a defensive mechanism a long time ago.

Allowing all those emotions to come back and flood over you is rough, especially when they involve someone you love. You feel so incompetent and fragile, among many other things.

Maybe your boyfriend really wants you to propose a date for moving in. Why not try responding with a definite date and then make that a subject you can talk about: being sure about this, etc.

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry,

I'm afraid to respond with a firm date, which would be silly anyway considering all of the things that have to be done before I move in, like selling my condo. Maybe the next time he asks when I'm moving in, I'll just respond with my own question, "when do you want me to move in?" and we'll take it from there.

Then, if he responds positively, we have to figure out how to integrate my two cats and our pit bull. Should be veerry interesting.

ROCK ON.........Trish
 
Trish,

What I had in mind wasn't a carved in stone kind of thing, just something to convey the message that you are in favor of the idea, and to pass the ball back to him in some positive way. Saying "When do you want me to move in?" somehow sounds to me like "I dunno. What do you think?" I.e. passing the buck back to him.

How about something like this: "What would you say to mid-February? Shall we plan for that? Are you ready to make that step so soon, or do you want to hold off or think about some other date?" That is, give a specific answer but leave the door open to discussion and be ready for signals that he isn't ready. My guess is still that this is a self-confidence ("I am a fuck-up") issue.

The cats and the pit bull, do I go there? Hmmmmm. No, I better not. There are cat lovers on-site. ;)

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry,

Thanks. That actually sounds like a pretty good plan. I'll have to let it play out when the subject comes up again - which it will.

As for the cats and the pitbull, yeah, should be interesting. I love them all, my b/f only has eyes for the dog but he'll tolerate the cats. I've had them both since they were a couple of weeks old and certainly for as long as he knows me so he knows there's no messing with them. Besides, one is almost 14 and the other is about 8, they go nowhere.

The problem is not my b/f, but the dog. She's really, really animal aggressive. I don't think she's ever even seen a cat, but I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about their first meeting. :(

ROCK ON......Trish
 
please understand i'm just a stupid kid ,but shouldn't somebody be thinking about your feelings?i don't think you should have to walk on egg shells all the time because somebody might say the wrong thing.i'll admit i don't see things the way most people do i even feel different from the other survivors here ,due to the way i grew up ,maybe it's because i never had basic things that other people even survivors take for granted .iwhen i come to the family and friends forum ,i know there won't be any posts to me or about me ,i have no family and never stayed in one place long enough to have a real friend ,so i kinda come here to get an idea of what it would be like .when i see a post like yours i kinda have to say what the hell is that guy thinking ,does he know i would cut my arm off to have someone ,anyone like you in my life. you talk about holding him and talking about whatever he is feeling ,i wonder if either of you understand just what you are doing for him just by being there ,i can't stress enough how wonderfull that sounds to someone like me .i think to myself ,if i had a girlfriend like that ,i could get over this shit in no time ,i would be miles ahead of somebody like me .if i had someone to talk it out with i wouldn't have to act it out later ,i could tell them how much anger is inside before it comes out in negetive ways . i also think if i had someone who would never do anything to upset me ,never question my motives ,would put their hopes and dreams on hold and constantly walk around on eggshells for fear of triggering me ,well you know what ,i would never want to get better ,why should i ?it is so easy to fall into the trap of being pitied ,to be treated special because of what happened to us ,i guess even i want to think somebody might feel sorry for me ,but you know what, if i get better, recover from it as much as i can then who will feel sorry for me then ? i said it's a trap and it is maybe he thinks if he gets his life together then you won;'t feel that he needs you . i been reading some books about recovery ,one of them says that without even knowing it family and friends of survivors can become what is called enablers ,they enable us to stay in the sad and hurt state because they care ,we see that caring as something we can't live without ,but without the abuse to hold us together ,i might have to let a little slack in the rope my abuse has tied to both of us ,i might have to stand on my own two feet instead of leaning on my girlfriend all the time ,i think you have carried him long enough ,now don't get me wrong pleaseeee i'm not saying leave him heaven forbid ,but maybe you could respond to his statement about pressuring ,by saying our friends asked a logical question and i shouldn't have to feel bad for giving a logical answer .survivors tend to think it is all about them but you are a person with feelings also ,you shouldn't have hide them .what i'm trying to get out is if you offered to carry me for the rest of my life ,i would never walk again . i don't like being me but being you has to be even harder ,you are suffering many of the effects of being abused right along with him ,but you weren't abused ,how strong is someone who would choose to share this awfull pain and confusion out of love ,we were forced into the life we lead ,but you have a choice and you chose to suffer along with him ,that is priceless . i guess i just need someone so bad i can't understand anyone not worshipping the ground you walk on . maybe a little tuff love ,yes i'll be supportive ,yes i'll hold you ,and cry with you ,but i am a person also and i shouldn't have to give up anything to be here with you .sorry i'm rambling adam
 
Adam,

Wow, you have some very strong feelings about this and the fact that you put me in such a high place is a little disconcerting, but much appreciated.

First off, you're a kid yes, but stupid? Not by a long shot. Youth and inexperience, by fate or design does not equal stupid.

Your story and my b/fs story are very different, but you share one horrible truth. Your families were crap. You were both thrown away, in different ways for sure, but the pain of that fact has the same devastating effects. A glaring difference in the way you are looking at things now and the way he does, is that youre 21 and have already made great strides in your efforts to recover from the hell you went through. Hes 45 and just starting. What Im saying is that hes got a lot more denial time under his belt.

The wives and girlfriends here arent celestial beings we just do everything we can to learn about s/a and its effects and how to deal with that with the men we love. After my b/f disclosed to me, it actually explained a lot of his behaviors, both good and bad. We talked about that and he was shocked that I had noticed certain things. He also learned a few things about himself that I pointed out and that hed never seen or thought about before.

I cant speak for everyone, but I think Im pretty representative of the majority. We do SOMETIMES walk on eggshells if there is a subject that we see is particularly hard, but believe me, not always and never for long. I may hold off for a day or two, or even a week, before broaching a subject with him that I feel we need to deal with, but thats OK. The fact that hes a survivor does make his reactions to things different and it does make a lot of things harder for him. Thats why I come here and ask for advice; its why I read a gazilion posts from other wives and girlfriends so that I know Im not alone and I know that Im not the only one having the feelings I have. We have a comradery just like you guys do and its really nice to know that none of us are alone. When I get a reply from a survivor its great, because its like being able to take a little peak into my b/fs mind and maybe get a little bit of a heads up as to how a particular subject will be received, or, if its already happened, why he reacted the way he did. There are lot of people whove been down this road before me and who are willing to let me know where the potholes are; Ill take all the information I can get.

You said:

maybe he thinks if he gets his life together then you wont feel that he needs you
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I don't want him to need me so much that it cripples him; he's had enough of that, besides, I know he doesnt need me, certainly not that way. Hes lived his life 100% on his own since he was 15. My b/f is a great guy who never depended on anyone. The fact that he leans on me a little is more than OK with me. I lean on him too. As long as were not both leaning in different directions, its all good.

My boyfriend has a therapist and she is not me. Im his girlfriend, thats enough of a job for me, thank you very much. Please dont take that negatively because it isnt meant that way at all. Its just that being of a couple is hard work for anyone who cares to make that couple a success. I want a success story, so while he goes to his T and his meetings, I come here and I ask questions and I learn so that when he needs to talk, I feel like I can be the support he needs.

Lastly Adam, I do take care of me. Im actually quite important to me:). When you read posts in F&F, youre usually seeing the most vulnerable, raw side of us, but just like with you guys, it isnt the whole picture, just the one that needs a little mending.

ROCK ON.................Trish
 
Hi people

Hope you don't mind but I've continued this as another thread because I think its really very interesting and I hope other survivors will contribute. Its a very hard one to balance I find between being understanding and feeling as if youre compomising yourself too much.


Lots of love

Tracy
 
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