Is this place safe or not?

Is this place safe or not?
well ok now that we've talked about all the supposedly bad things about ms how bout talking about the good ?maybe? something is being missed here ,this place helps! it cant be compared to say a site about growing flowers. personal;y i think ms saved my life ,not the chat ,not the posts ,THE PEOPLE! ITS NOT THE MODS WHO MAKE THE SITE WORK ,ITS THE MODS WHO TRY THEIR BEST TO MAKE IT SAFE ,THE REST IS UP TO US .i think that we need to discuss the site yes ,but would reading this thread maybe make you think its not the place for me? how bout a post about how ms helps? how bout a thread of how the people here have changed our lives? i dont agree that its dangerous to base friendships on the site , eventually you will be let down? how is that staement going to be seen by a new member? we had a thread about negativity , c mon guys! ms is the best thing i have found in 22 years . the negativity thread was about dwelling on the bad things ,isnt that whats happening here? if you dont agree then try going back to being alone and living in silence. i have made friends here , and i value those friends more than any i have in real life
 
shadow,

I couldn't agree more! I have met some of the best people on here I could possibly meet. I used to think the jingle I heard on tv was somewhat flippant sentiment: "this is my country, these are my people..." But you know what? I came here and I found just that - my people! I can go to church or go to my job and not feel the same way at all about the people there. Unless any of them reveal so, they don't have the slightest inkling how I feel or what I've been through. Part of me is glad they haven't for they would be suffering too. Another part of me is sad because they can't see how life is in my eyes.

This website has been an oasis in a relational desert. Eddie, Rich, John, Larry, Adam, Darrel, Jim, TJ, Dale, the list of names could go on of how many of you I am so glad to have met on this site! The forums that have allowed me to share the darkest dirt - I can't hardly share that stuff in the immediate world around me since the listener may very well recoil in horror. I have found wisdom from others on here that I cannot find in the immediate world. The best I can get from the most caring in my vicinity is "sucks to be you, pal."

I don't get that here. I get "I know what you mean." Or, "I understand." It's because you really do understand!
 
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I agree with Shadow that their is a lot of positive on the site.

I was one of the people that had a bad experience in the chat room. Thanx to Dewey2K i stuck around. And i am glad that i did. I went back to chat afterwards and learned my lesson from the experince i had in there, I made great friends in chat since then. I sometimes feel that the moderators should warn the visitors to the chat room of the possible dangers. When i got to the site i was so eager to get advice and get help that i skipped most of the information pages. Perhaps a pop up warning when you enter the chat room might be nice. I know we are supposed to look after ourselves but i also think we should try to protect the new people.

I dont agree with Nobby. I got real support here. People that talked me through some of he most difficult times I went through. Stuck by me and still do. This is a place of support and friendship even though i cant see the person face to face. Yes we shouldnt only focus on the hurt but we should be sensitive to the pain others experience.

So what is my conclusion? MS has helped me tremendously. I now spent less time on the Discussion Board and almost no time in the chat room simply because i feel i dont want MS to become yet another crutch to recovery. But although i got hurt here i will stick around as the positive is much greater than the negative.
 
And yes. Thanks to the moderator team for the effort you made to assist me through the bad experience i had in chat. That is one of the reasons i decided to stick around. You made me feel safe here again.
 
Nobbynobs said:
I don't think that this site gives support, and I think that expecting support from it is a bit risky. All it does is offer information on what other guys have been through and their opinions on their healing. Any "support" that is offered here is a dangerous illusion.

Support comes from people around you who know you very well and who can come over and make you dinner, chat with you, toss a ball around, etc. It requires the person to physically be there with you. I'm not sure how I could draw support from someone that I have never met and who I don't really know other than as an avatar on a forum. I would never trust someone that much without knowing them personally for years.

This site is a great resource for male survivors, and there's a lot of good information here, but it is not a substitute for therapy or for real life interaction with people. It is wise to be careful how much you expect from MS in terms of support and friendship because it will never be able to fill that role for you. Eventually you will be let down.
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I have to disagree with you on that, Nobby. I understand, I think, what you are basing this on, which is that cyberworld is this vapor world that doesn't exist in our own, real lives in which we go to the grocery store, church, or work and see people face to face. But those people at the grocery store, church, etc., that I see face to face are not real people at times either. They're fake, back-stabbing phonies, some of them, just as there would be here in the cyberworld. I've met a member here at MS in person before (twice) and it was one of the most positive experiences I have had in trying to reestablish positive relationships with men.

To say support has to come from those physically in proximity to you doesn't work for me. Building trust at a distance is what has worked for me. And then finally meeting that person whom I have come to trust, and now value as one of my dearest, closest friends. I know MS discourages off-site contact, so everyone has to take their own risks in doing so. But even onsite relationships are a very valuable means of support. I'm sorry if maybe it hasn't worked that way for some, maybe they are working on their healing journey from a different angle. And that's certainly o.k., everyone needs to do what works for them. MS has worked for me, though, in helping me with the support I needed and to relearn how to have healthy male relationships again.
 
I'm gonna take off my mod hat for a second and say that I've got to agree with the things Eddie, pietie, Adam, and Andy have said. They are 100% correct. I've found in life that if I'm looking for negativity I'm sure as hell gonna be able to find it. Conversely, if I'm looking for the positive it's gonna be found.

It boils down to a simple choice. I can choose what I find in life. Sure there are things gonna happen to me that are not positive, but the choice is still mine what kind of things I look for even in those bad times.

The same thing applies here. I'm gonna find what I'm looking for. Simple as that.
I can mourn the negativity or I can take these lemons and make lemonaid.

Lots of love,

John
 
I dont agree with Nobby. I got real support here. People that talked me through some of he most difficult times I went through. Stuck by me and still do. This is a place of support and friendship even though i cant see the person face to face. Yes we shouldnt only focus on the hurt but we should be sensitive to the pain others experience.

So what is my conclusion? MS has helped me tremendously. I now spent less time on the Discussion Board and almost no time in the chat room simply because i feel i dont want MS to become yet another crutch to recovery. But although i got hurt here i will stick around as the positive is much greater than the negative.
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I didn't once say that you can't get help at MS. I said that this site does not provide real, long-term support. It is not a substitute for healthy relationships.

It takes me years to become close friends with someone. It takes hundreds of shared experiences, deep conversations, and shared pains and joys to build a strong sense of trust and kinship with the other person. There is no way that you can have the same relationship on an Internet forum with people that you have never met. There is not even a way of ensuring that the person that you are talking to is even who they say they are. (there have been a few people here under false pretences in the past)

Pietie you make an interesting comment here:

"I don't want MS to be another crutch to recovery."

That is my point exactly. It is very easy to be seduced by the sense of community at this forum. For me, I was overwhelmed when I first got here. I thought,

"Wow! There are all these guys who have gone through the same thing!"

But then I quickly realised that MS was not going to help me with my recovery, so I left the site for almost a year and concentrated on therapy and healing. I know that not everyone feels the same way about MS, but personally I felt that the site would hold me back at that stage of my healing.

Now I come here, but I don't "need" the site. I like to talk to some people here about different things that come up in my recovery, and I like to debate different issues about male CSA. However, I have no emotional investment in the site, except with a small group of the guys here. It is a very positive forum, and there are some interesting and compassionate people here, but it is just one of many sites that I visit.

I know that a lot of you feel differently about MS, and I accept that. However, I also know that this site can be very dangerous for new members, and I have a bit of a problem when we tell them that "They are safe at Malesurvivor." They aren't. This site is no safer than any other Internet forum, and we are being very irresponsible if we claim that it is. It is not even a safe place to have open discussions if you are emotionally sensitive, because people here tend to have very strong opinions and you can get hurt very badly if you are not able to protect yourself from strong language or triggering subjects.

I have been a moderator at a depression forum for several years now, and as most of you know, I also run a website for people who suffer from mental illness. I have learned the hard way the dangers of becoming too emotionally involved in "support" forums and now I am always very careful to warn new members to be cautious when they first approach a new community. I would be irresponsible if I didn't.
 
"I don't want MS to be another crutch to recovery."

Crutches are meant to help us walk when a leg or foot is under repair (healing). Since healing from SA is another way of looking at 'under repair,' I don't see a crutch as a bad thing. MS is a valuable resource. For some on here, it's all they have. For some, it may appear as only a crutch. For others, it may appear as a lifeline out of hell.
 
Ahmen to that FT, this is the only place I have...I don't know what I'd do if it ever disapeared or anyting
 
Shiming in here.. I visit another survivors site... You cannot get into the chat room there until you have posted 5 times. I don't know if 5 is a magic number.. but I do know that the chat room is not going to "heal" anyone. So maybe there ought to be a limit on who is allowed in the chat. I don't think it is a place for "newbies". It is a place of fellowship, a place to vent, a place of commonality. You can share ideas there, you can ask questions... but there is no therapist in the chat room!!!!!

Just my 2cents...
GW
 
The human condition is to apply their experience to a given situation and to further believe that same experience is or should be shared by everyone who participates in said situation. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is a community of men who have been through some devastating abuse at some point in their lives, typically in their childhood. Each of us brings our strengths and weaknesses to the table when we come here.

To make a blanket statement such as some I have seen in this thread and a couple of others lately questioning the fact that support can be found here is to invalidate the experience someone else brings with them to this place and his experiences once here. That may well be the author's experience, but it is only his experience and not that of many other participants on the site. Each of us travels a different path and different things speak to us. Simple as that.

My 2 cents worth. Between you and me, GW, there's 4 cents. Lets start a Bank!

John
 
John, I want to go back to Dewey's original post:

Recently he went into the chatroom and was discussing a sensitive topic for him. He was then criticized for his feelings and told in no uncertain terms that he was wrong. For the last 2 days I've been trying to get him to stay, to not run away from the ONLY SOURCE OF SUPPORT HE HAS, but he won't stay. Someone here chased a survivor away, and he won't likely be back.
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See, I disagree with this characterisation of the site. You and I may disagree on what value this site brings people, but to call MS the "only source of support a survivor has" is dangerous. This site is NOT supportive, and we can't just blithely go on acting as if it is. New members should not be led to believe that they will be supported here. They won't. We are not qualified nor are we capable of providing support to CSA survivors. I think that we are giving entirely the wrong impression to the new guys by telling them that this is a "support community."

This site is not safe. New members are routinely singled out by predators in the chatroom, and there are more predators lurking around the forum. I was singled out by a couple when I first joined here, and it made me so upset that I stayed away from the site for 6 months. I repeat again, this is not a safe community and we should stop presenting it as such.

And the moderators can keep repeating "report the predators" until the cows come home, and it won't change a thing. I have been a forum moderator for 3 years and we have never been able to stop trolls from attacking people, especially in chatrooms. The only way you can prevent trolls is by having validated signups (like I use on my website) but that strips away the anonymity of the site.

Finally, to speak to Jarrad's point, this is a public website. Talking here is the equivalent of having a loud conversation on a street corner. There should be no expectation of privacy nor should people feel that this is a "safe" location to discuss personal issues. This site is cached by Google on a regular basis, so any conversations here are being recorded and are searchable by any search engine. To use the old Internet analogy, don't write anything here that you wouldn't feel comfortable shouting on a street corner.

Sorry to be such a prick about this, but I think we are being naive if we think this site is safe.
 
Nobby,

In some cases this place is the only source of help a survivor has. To reach out for local help in some cases will cause even more harm and danger than the conditions they are already in. That is the unfortunate truth in the lives of some who find their way here.

John
 
The following is my own personal viewpoint:

Nobbynobs said:
You and I may disagree on what value this site brings people, but to call MS the "only source of support a survivor has" is dangerous.
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As John points out, this site is often the only source of support and validation male survivors have, especially early in their recovery. Is it dangerous for a person to expect MaleSurvivor to serve in that capacity indefinitely? Absolutely. It's also unrealistic. In my view, recovery from abuse takes a lot of time and a lot of counseling on a personal level.
This site is NOT supportive, and we can't just blithely go on acting as if it is. New members should not be led to believe that they will be supported here. They won't. We are not qualified nor are we capable of providing support to CSA survivors. I think that we are giving entirely the wrong impression to the new guys by telling them that this is a "support community."
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I think this depends on your definition of support. If you're comparing what MaleSurvivor can do and what a real-life counselor can do in person, then yes, comparatively MaleSurvivor is not a supportive place. However, without a counselor or similar support structure, MaleSurvivor can and does serve to support survivors to some degree. As long as it is made clear that MaleSurvivor is not a substitute for a therapist or therapy, then I don't think that calling the site "supportive" is mischaracterizing it.

This site is not safe. New members are routinely singled out by predators in the chatroom, and there are more predators lurking around the forum. I was singled out by a couple when I first joined here, and it made me so upset that I stayed away from the site for 6 months. I repeat again, this is not a safe community and we should stop presenting it as such.
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I agree, the site is not safe, but it is as safe as we can make it. Moderators are human and limited in their capacity by definition. We do the best we can, but we depend on users of the site to help us by reporting posts and people who are attacking others or making them feel they are unwelcome here.

This is a community of sorts, and as such we are, to my way of thinking, obligated to do what we can to help each other, new members and old hands alike, to get the most out of the site that we can.
 
This discussion is going places and many right places too. So, here's my two penny...

I see this site straddling between the realms of a 'Support group', and an Empowerment group', where older survivor can contribute and share fruits of their personal healing work, and thus offer new directions to young survivors, and I don't mean age here.

Though aspiring towards the later would be ideal in the growth cycle of the website, where many survivors can graduate from support group to a empowerment group environment, where you having successfully dealt with the basic healing issues like anger and forgiveness, are now addressing issues of power or control etc that arise from reentering the normal life as a CSA survivor.
..
I certainly believe that his place CAN be made safe', we just have to think creatively, as we have seen for the past years, for some people this is the only link they have to the outside world, while their abuse is still on!

Perhaps, all new survivor can directed to a special forum with a list of active moderators to whom they can contact directly and seek advise, rather than falling prey to another wandering mistrals and get negatively influence by them, and irrevocably so.

..
Speaking openly and unabashedly whatever comes to our mind is trait of works for a support group, though in an empowerment forum, you learn to speak responsibly, which means taking in all the responsibility as an adult would. This only prepares us for having real, mature conversations outside.

As many survivors allow their angry/hurt child to take over and hold fort, and we all know how unreasonable that angry child can be. Here we are trying to unlearn this unhealthy trait, as being a CSA survivor doesn't condemn us to be emotionally volatile for the rest of our life. It is a passing phase, and lets not forget that. Here, we are learning to be assertive, rather than just being aggressive or nonchalant.

Here I think the division of the site between zones might be help, in avoiding useless confrontation between various stages of healing.
.

As for the perils of this site becoming a CRUTCH, as with any support group that solely depends on individual survivor. Are you looking for a place for support in crisis, guidance or healing tool or merely social settings to vent our uncontrolled anger and our opinions about abuse issues and the world at large.

This site offers an unprecedented belongingness or a community feeling hitherto unavailable outside, every new member has to be extra cautious, and know when its time to move on or simply take a break. In any case a crutch is advised only for a short time, after that it only hampers your possibilities of future growth and self-reliance.

Ok, my two penny talktime over!
 
Here is my two penneth worth....

This site does provide a place to network other survivors.

That in itself is of huge benefit to many including myself.

Male survivor helps because it shows that "we" are not alone in our journey which again id of huge benefit.

However, if the site creates a need in survivors for the website, in that is seeks to become a crutch then its going to create problems for itself.

To say.....

"this site is the only source of support a survivor has"
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is dangerous and is factually wrong.

In my humble opinion it is and should remain just another avenue any survivor may wish to take in order to further their own healing.

The site (and those who run it) should not puff itself up in its own importance. Without us it ceases to exist. Its whole point and reason to operate disappears if no one comes here.

It does have value, but isn't valuable on its own merit.

When Nobby says
There should be no expectation of privacy nor should people feel that this is a "safe" location to discuss personal issues.
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he is right.

This place is open to the public arena and thus anyone, survivor or not, can post here.

There are perps here (self confessed and secret) just as there are genuine "fucked up" survivors who need to network with others further down the road to being a survivor, not a victim.

Thems the breaks of having a site open to all.

In short, the ruling junta offer a service, its up to us (as is driving a car or taking a bus) whether we come here.

We do have a choice, thus we must accept the rough with the smooth.

I understand I cant help everyone (although I'd like to) so if someone isn't ready and reacts badly to something I might say I have to live with that, as do they.

But I walk away every time I come here knowing that what I say may have some positive effect on others.

That is valuable, both to me and those who listen to and understand what I say.

And if perps come here, so what?!?! It means they are not trolling kids chat rooms when coming here for kicks.

You dig?

In short male survivor has some great plusses, it also has some gaping holes. We take from here what we need, nothing more. If we didnt need, we wouldn't come here.

Mmmmmm both huge positives and howling negatives???

Sounds a bit like me that does.....

Come on peeeps, stop bickering......

Deconstruct things a little. Its not that bad, but its not that good either.

its a website people, even the best have dodgy link and other issues.

MS too.
 
"You and I may disagree on what value this site brings people, but to call MS the "only source of support a survivor has" is dangerous."

For some survivors this is the only source of support. There is currently NO CSA support in South Africa. The city i live in does not even have any councillors specialising in CSA. I came to the site through desperation of seeking help. For a period of time MS really was the only source of support. I do not have any medical cover and can not afford to see a T right now. I have been in therapy before and i am not saying i will not go back to therapy. But when i struggled to see any light in my situation this place became my best source of assistance. I have moved on from that place. But i have made friends here that i will not trade for anything. Because of our situations people really understand what we are going through. There is a huge difference between friends saying they know what you are going through and the people here that REALLY share your pain and joy.

Getting back to the crutch. What i meant to say was that i dont want to be on MS a year from now and not have moved on because i have only used this site as my crutch. I want to recover and move on. Hopefully with MS as a companion rather than a crutch.
 
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hey guys if you think its not safe here ,how the hell do you make it out there? all the the site does is mirror the real world ,but on the site when disagreements break out or tempers flare,nobody can pull out a gun and blow us away. to me thats safe ,lots safer than the crazy place the world has become. i see the things your talking about as a chance for me to pratice how i might react to bad things that are real in my life ,i'd rather encounter a perp here than have him confront me on the street .i keep hearing about how bad chat is ,i disagree ,if you have 10 guys in chat and one of them decides to attack another ,the answer is simple ,dont just stand by and think wow im glad its not me he's picking on ,stand together ,support the guy thats being attacked ,see how quick the attacker gets tired if he cant single out the weaker person. we all have different stories ,we all have different lives ,we all find support any way we can ,for me ms is support ,and i say that knowing full well all the things that have been said in this post . if this is a poor substitute for family ?well compared to my real family ,ms is like comming home for me. i am proud to say that the site has shown me lots of things i never had before ,and you know what?i'll risk anything to finally belong somewhere ,to not be alone is worth any risk that exists here. safety is kinda in the eyes of the beholder isnt it? the danger is out there ,all i got to do is walk out my front door to be in danger, when i found ms i was at the end ,i had tried every way to keep living the way i was ,i had a choice to make, find help and support or just end the misery,i'm still here ,i found help and support here ,to me ms is the only thing in my life that has had a bigger affect than my abuse, so if i'm a fool for thinking the support and friendship i get here is real,then at least im a living fool and not just another statistic ,.if its sad that this is the only family i have ,maybe its cause lots of guys have family that they can go to for support,i dont ,if i felt so threatend here at the site i'd never be able to go out into the real world again.
 
if your in the water drowning and somebody throws you a rope ,are you gonna hang on for dear life or say well i dont know what if the rope breaks ,or what if i get a rope burn? or what if the guy holding the rope lets go,life involves taking chances . if that guy pulls me in i wont complain about the rope burns i got along the way.
 
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