Is he hopeless? How can he say these things?

Is he hopeless? How can he say these things?

forlauren

Registrant
I feel so stuck in a ditch with my husband right now. It's 10 days until our next counselling appointment and he doesn't want to talk about anything to do with his father or his sister until then. I said to him last night that I didn't know if I could hold everything in until our appointment, and if he has any thoughts on the matter at all to please share them with me. He just mentioned how he's been honest with me, staying away from porn. I said the heavy issue that's weighing on my mind is about Sarah (his little sister). He totally started saying all my evidence against his dad is circumstantial, that I can't expect him to just hate his dad and want to take him down, expose him and humiliate him. He said he really doesn't believe his sister is being abused. He said his dad "let him" have sex with his girlfriend, he never touched him. When I brought up the fact that his dad had molested his Aunt Dava when she was 3 and Stephen was 18 my husband said "I don't know what he was going through when he was 18." Like there could be any sort of excuse for acting on evil urges toward a child?
I just feel sick today. I had terrible dreams all night. I feel like my husband is worthless as a father if he can't see that it's his responsibility to protect his sister. I don't care if he still loves his dad. He can't seem to seperate feelings from right and wrong. I think it's because his dad was always so emotionally manipulative or something. I'm pregnant now, too. I have no regrets about being pregnant. I feel like Lauren deserves more than just her dad and me, she deserves to have a sibling. I just hope my husband can somehow get his values straightened out before I completely give up on him, because the excuses he was making for his dad last night make my skin crawl and I won't let him touch me. I don't even know how I'm going to look at him today when he comes home.
 
"I feel like my husband is worthless as a father if he can't see that it's his responsibility to protect his sister. "

I'm working my hardest at calming down before I post. To be simple and blunt: Your child is not in any way equivalent to his sister.

My father abused me. I suspect he also abused my sister and brother (both older than me). I did not try to "bring down" my father, I just let my brother, sister, mom, dad, grandparents, aunt and uncle, and church pastor know what I recalled from my youth. What they do with that information is up to them.

My nieces and nephews are around my father - my sister and brother told me they don't recall anything like that, and that they can't justify having their kids loose a grandpa just on my word. That is their loss, and none of my business.

I have had no contact with my family for 10 years. I have no idea how they are, nor do I care.

I cut all contact with them because my wife and I were talking about having kids. My sons will have no knowledge of my side of the family. I consider myself a good father.

When I cut contact, it was one of the roughest times in my life. My wife stayed on even tho I was a powder keg of emotional outbursts and excuses. I wasn't sure I was doing the right thing and I resented her saying ANYTHING about it.

I know the difference between right and wrong in all situations except dealings with my parents and siblings. I see every issue with them as grey. I knew that I could see straight if my dad was involved - so he's not in the picture anymore.

I cannot protect my nieces and nephews any more than your husband can protect his sister.

Protecting my children is another issue. My boys are safe from him, and so am I. That's the most I can offer the world right now.
 
It is very complicated, isn't it? I'm sorry if it sounded like I want him to "take him down" and humiliate him. Those were his words, not mine. They sounded ridiculous to me when he said them because I know I cant expect him to hate his father or anyone for that matter.
You could be right, maybe his judgment will forever be clouded when it comes to family members. I just dont want to believe that the topic of using children for ones own sexual gratification could be any sort of grey area whatsoever for him. Maybe youve never acted out against kids in any way, and maybe your wife trusts you. I think your wife is incredibly lucky that your past with your dad came out before you had kids. My daughter was three months old when I found child porn on my husbands computer. Hed actually done a search on child rape on a file sharing program. Then he waits until a year later after Ive kicked him out of the house to tell me in counseling that his dad participated in sex with him & a 23 year old girl when he was 13. He continues to make excuses for it because it was like a favor to him that he let him have sex with this beautiful woman and after all his dad didnt touch him. His dad did something similar with his brother, only it was with 2 female pedophiles and they just switched off, dad wasnt in the room. Just a couple weeks ago my husbands brother told him he still viewed this as a very positive learning experience for him.
Im envious of your wife. I loathe my husbands family now, and just about everyone in it. I tried talking to his brothers wife and she didnt want to hear any of it and treated me like I was nuts.
I will apologize to my husband because I sent him a totally rude email saying his excuses for his dad make my skin crawl and that I and the kids are probably better off without him. I cant seem to stop being impatient and pushy, but I feel like Ive been in child molester hell since I found the child porn. I still feel so lied to that Dan could marry me, have a child with me six years later, and THEN tell me hes from the incest/pedophile family (he and his brother did stuff together).
Still, I can TRY to back off. The therapist weve been seeing has said that with his history, Dan must have something very good at the core of his being that he hasnt done something awful to land him in prison already.
As much as you may feel that his family is his business, when you marry you marry that persons entire family. And I have been victimized by Stephen (father-in-law), by what hes done to my husband and how its affected him, and by the things that come out of his mouth. He is a vile human being, and when I was 2 months pregnant he said Congratulations! Did you enjoy getting raped? So, I want him held accountable for the evil that he is and does, and I refuse to be his victim. I think Ill write another post just to rant about him because I need to get it out somehow.
 
My writing might have been unclear on the post above where I said when I was 2 months pregnant he asked "did I enjoy being raped." That was my father-in-law (Stephen) who said that (husband's perp). I was just trying to explain why I hate him now and feel like a victim as well of his sleazy sexuality.
I also want to further clarify some points where dmcdd seems to think the situation my husband comes from & that we're currently coping with together is so similar to his. There are some big differences.
dmcdd's situation is exactly the opposite because dmcdd DID take a stand against the family- i don't think this is a parrallel situation at all. and there wasn't the situation where dmcdd's sister was still a child and exhibiting all the symptoms that my sisterinlaw has.
 
forlauren,

I understand that you are coming here for education and support, and that your situation is complicated.

I am saying this as gently as I can.

What is stopping you from doing everything in YOUR power to protect your niece? You seem to keep asking us the same question about if and how you should report your suspicions about this girl being sexually abused. We keep telling you, report it. Are you now saying that your husband has this great personal responsibility to report it? Are you saying that it only "counts" if he does it, because you want him to?

One can feel that there are no shades of gray when it comes to child sexual abuse, and still not want to confront or disclose. You can't judge a survivor and his opinion of abuse in general based on how and when he chooses to confront his own abusers.

I think part of dmcdd's point was that lots of survivors, on top of all the other guilt they feel, have to live with the knowledge that the people who abused them are out there somewhere possibly abusing others. And it is just as inappropriate to put the responsibility for that person's continued actions on the survivor as it is to make them responsible for what happened to them in the first place.
 
Thanks SAR, you did say it much better than I did... Survivors may not be able to take up the fight to save others from their perps.

I was also saying that my own kids are different than anyone else's. I am VERY protective of my boys, possibly overly protective. When it comes to nieces and nephews - well, I really can't give a hoot. Not that I don't want to, it's more like I can't. I told their parents about a sicko, and I have to trust to them to make things right.

Forlauren, your subsequent messages have pointed out many differences between myself and your husband. I apologize for posting from a very self-centered point of view.

I'm glad he's getting counselling, but being the overly protective parent that I am, if I knew of someone in a position of power over my kids that had searched for and viewed child porn - well, I'd treat that person just like my family. No contact at all forever. I have a zero tolerance policy towards potential perps. I'm not giving any advice here, just another self-cenetered point of view :)

BTW, I can sympathize about your father-in-law's sleaze... My wife used to have to take a shower after we left their house when we used to go visit. The comments he made just made her feel dirty. To me, seeing her reaction to him was like a 2x4 slam on my head that something was terribly amiss and needed my attention. Well, seeing her reaction and having her beat on my soulder all the way back to her parent's house - both had a considerable impact :)

Looking back on the messages, I hope that you can feel free enough in therapy to say what you really want - and I hope your husband will find that good core and begin to protect you and your children from both himself and his perp.
 
dmcdd

To me, seeing her reaction to him was like a 2x4 slam on my head that something was terribly amiss and needed my attention. Well, seeing her reaction and having her beat on my soulder all the way back to her parent's house - both had a considerable impact
How many years of being hit on the head did it take? :p ;)

My boyfriend and I have been together for eight years... sometimes it feels like his mom has been hovering over our shoulder since day one. Sometimes she really is :rolleyes: ... I saw her in the grocery store one day and said, "Oh good, I saved you a step--now you don't have to come to my house and look in the fridge..."

If I ever needed proof that his recovery was self-directed I got it a few weeks before he started therapy-- now we're talking over seven years in an eight year relationship-- he said, "I'm feeling angry at my mom today... I just realized, when she says come over for dinner, I don't have to go if I don't want to. If I don't want to go that day, it's okay. I'm allowed to go another day." :eek: :eek:

Some days I wonder how his recovery might have come about/progressed differently if she and I got along. Other days I know for a fact that my participation in her son's adult life is enough to prevent any chance of that.
 
Originally posted by SAR:
How many years of being hit on the head did it take? :p ;)
[/QB]
Well, the hittin didn't do it. One statement did it... "You can go visit but I'm not - neither will our kids. Your family is your problem, not mine". That was after about two years of bruises.

She booted 'em before I did. Then I followed about a week later. I went over and told them "You haven't treated me right in the past, and you haven't accepted my wife. I need to build my own life, without you.". The closest analogy I can come up with is steppin out of hip deep cow crud onto dry land.
 
Dmcdd, you said:

"I'm glad he's getting counselling, but being the overly protective parent that I am, if I knew of someone in a position of power over my kids that had searched for and viewed child porn - well, I'd treat that person just like my family. No contact at all forever. I have a zero tolerance policy towards potential perps. I'm not giving any advice here, just another self-cenetered point of view"

These words hit me kind of hard. Ive never been so furious as when I found the child porn. At the time I convinced myself it was a symptom of my husbands porn addiction in general. When I found it I told him Id leave with the baby and hed never see us again if he brought any more porn of any type into the house. Id never had a major issue with porn before, but I also never experienced being in relationship with someone who often chose paper or celluloid bodies over my own. I kept this horrible incident to myself for over a year until it came out in counseling about the SA and incest from his childhood. Then I flipped out completely and told everybody. Everyone in my family, who loved Danny dearly like a brother or a son, now knows (except for my father because I know thered be no way he could take it) that my husband used the computer for child porn. I also told his brothers wife about it (Danny is godfather to his brothers two kids). I found the file in the morning after hed left for work hed left a file sharing program open from late the night before. There was just one file that appeared to be very real. He claimed he went to bed and didnt even see it. Hes told our counselor that he never sought it out before, but she doesnt really buy it because she knows that a lot of men who are that addicted to porn sort of stumble into things.

About the father-in-laws sleaze, Ive asked my husband before didnt any of his other girlfriends get completely grossed out by him? And Danny said that his girlfriends in the past were usually the type of girls who would just flirt back with him. I think people with inappropriate sexual backgrounds and boundaries are often drawn together.

It does blow my mind that Stephens sister Dava visits him a couple times a month, and she brings her little girl with her. Danny says hes sure Dava would never leave her daughter around Stephen unsupervised. How do people have relationships with perps like that? I do think it has a lot to do with money. Dava seemed like a lost soul to me, and has never been able to support herself financially. She begged Danny to take the secret to his grave in order to save from breaking grandpas heart. Danny told her what Stephen had done to him as a kid, and did she think Sarah was safe in the house with Stephen and Dava said yes, I think she is but heres what Stephen did to me when I was 3 and 4 years old and Stephen was 19. Why? To what purpose? I wish I knew what was going on in Davas head when she told him and what she hoped it would accomplish. Im convinced she knows Sarah is abused but she figures theres nothing to be done about it.

I guess it really bothers you SAR, that I dont know what Im supposed to do. I get angry, simplistic answers from people, like call 1-800-STOPITNOW, etc. Trust me, Ive talked a lot with the stopitnow people, mostly about my own daughter because that has to be my number one concern before I worry about anyone else. Ive called half the hotline numbers in the country. It isnt a simple situation. It isnt cut and dried. I feel deep down that Sarah is abused. My husband says he feels deep down that shes not. I believe even if she were abused, shed never admit it. Shes extremely infantilized and dependant upon her parents. Shes overindulged which is often a cover for abuse, by the way. I know for sure abuse exists in milder forms, such as pornography being right there in a lower cupboard in the kitchen, and I know disgusting things have to come out of Stephens mouth in front of Sarah all the time, because the man is completely arrogant, has no filter on his mouth, and just doesnt care about being decent at all. My husband has only seen Sarah four times in her whole life. Ive only seen her one time (spent a week there at Christmas one year it was enough to tell me the child and her situation were far from normal. She was anorexic, drinking formula from a bottle still and sucking a pacifier, sleeping in her parents bed at the age of 9). They never let her go anywhere because they say shes allergic to everything. She could never come visit us, for example.

Other things I have to take into consideration is that Stephen would definitely suspect me if the law showed up in some form to protect Sarah. Danny told him I found out about his sexual history with his son and wanted a background investigation done on him. Danny was very angry with me initially, for telling off his dad on the phone for the porn hes sent to my house, for telling just about everybody (neighbors included) that Danny viewed child porn. I think hes over that now and just yesterday in an email Danny said he hasnt ruled out cutting off contact with his dad indefinitely. They havent spoken in at least 3 weeks. Stephen does scare me, I know he has many connections with people in the porn industry and those people are criminals in my opinion. I do fear retaliation. So Ive pondered the idea of trying to make nice with Stephen and his wife just to throw them off the track.

Danny has spent hours and hours taking psychological tests to determine whether hes a risk to children or not. The psychiatrist says she doesnt think he is, but that his father is. Just trying to sort the mess out with our family (separation, the morning I called the police, worrying about my daughters safety) has taken up all our time in therapy. Danny keeps saying he wants to talk to the therapist about how he can go about helping Sarah. I think he thinks maybe he can find a way to talk to her that will tell him if shes okay or not. I just dont know about that, because like I said I dont think shed ever say anything. Stephen obviously has very strong power over his victims because my husband didnt see what he did as so wrong until 24 years later, his brother still views his sexual initiation as he calls it as a positive experience. And Aunt Dava still visits Stephen a couple times a month and is convinced Stephen has no memory of molesting her as a child.

Again, I apologize that this subject is so disturbing and that a child could be in a bad situation right now. Ive picked up the phone to report so many times, but I just have to be sure Im doing it the right way. Well consult with the therapist, Ill do what I can to get Danny to come around, but my patience is going to wear thin eventually. My sister is a lawyer and has said shed make the call to the prosecutor because it might have more weight coming from an attorney. Im afraid Danny might be thinking of just cutting his dad out of his life, and that would include his little sister. Its just that my big brother has always been there for me when Ive really needed him, and I attach a lot of importance to the title brother. Stephen has had other children Danny never even got the opportunity to be a brother to, as Stephen abandoned those kids. My motivation is definitely two-fold. Ill admit freely that I want to get the bastard, that theres an element of revenge involved because this last year and a half of hell Ive been in all started with him. And I was always taught that all children and defenseless animals are all our responsibility.
 
Lauren
it's complicated situation involving a complicated family situation, and although you are doing more than most to balance the needs of yourself, your daughter, and everyone else around you - there will always be one more little thing that arises that will send your plans to hell.
You've found yourself in the worst situation possible, and I'm afraid the biggest casualty might be you in the end. You don't deserve that.

However much we deride the social workers and professionals, we read about their mistakes and errors, hear about the slow decisions that ruin peoples lives, the fact is they are what the media tell us.
They are the people to sort this mess out. If the 9yo girl is anorexic and all the rest of it, then that alone is reason for the authorities to move in. I'm surprised her teachers haven't picked this up?

Nobody can save the world on their own, many have tried and failed.
The 'rot' in that family runs from top to bottom, it's infected right through, and I think it's too much for one person so closely involved to deal with objectively.

I might not sound 'supportive' here, but I can promise you that I am, I'm supportive towards YOU, because YOU are the most important person.
You are the one who needs to support your daughter, maybe your husband as well if he makes the right moves?
If you get crushed by the weight of all this, who's going to take your place. The 'family' perhaps?

Dave
 
Lloydy,

Thank you for your thoughts on this. Yeah, surprising teachers or noone has picked up on Sarahs situation. I think its because people are blind to the fact that abuse happens whether your rich or poor. These people are rich. And shes spoiled.

I agree theres rather a lot of rot in that family. I will never again associate with my Father-in-Law or his wife. I will never again associate with my brother-in-law. My husbands mother and stepfather are emotionally distant, they gamble and stepdad drinks, but I dont think theyre horrible people. Thankfully, my husbands parents divorced when he was just 2 years old, somewhat lessening the effects Stephen could have had on him.

I dont intend to take on the entire matter alone, at all. I come here for insight and support (though I often feel criticized and torn down). I found a very sharp psychologist who works putting child molesters in prison. My husband and I are seeing her together. I have full support from my mother and my three siblings, I have an intelligent and powerful Irish family.

Trust me, there is no way I would let this evil tear me down. I would never give it that kind of power. Ive battled evil before and won. I always win. Im even stronger now that Im a mom. Because I absolutely have to be. This doesnt mean that the idea Stephen might retaliate doesnt scare me. Im really scared, but that wont stop me. I just want to be sure Im safe as possible and that I go about things in a very smart way. Im looking for answers here, but all I keep getting is just make the call. Sorry, I just dont see it as being so simple.

Its frustrating that the only reports we get on Sarah come from Aunt Dava. We are quite far from Florida, living here in BC. My husband has a business trip planned on the 24th of this month to Florida. I mentioned something about seeing his dad and my husband says he does not intend to see him. A part of me wishes he would, to check up on Sarah, to give his dad a false sense of security before the social workers or professionals are unleashed on them. At this time I think my husband flat out doesnt want to believe anythings happening to Sarah. I almost wish we could plant secret cameras in the house or something. All there is now is circumstantial evidence, speculation.
 
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