Intimacy...

Intimacy...
S

Sleepy

Registrant
This is basically a continuation from the It's Hard to Remember… thread by Ben. I decided to start a whole new post on intimacy so that it would get more exposure.

Everyone who responded to my intimacy question I want to say thank you. I was very impressed by the responses. It truly gave me much comfort. I know that this issue is central to many SA survivors as well as to many partners and spouses alike. However I almost have to approach this issue from a very basic and novice point of view. As survivors, I think we all know what it is like to have problems with intimacy but I have completely denied myself any intimate relationships. I could never handle the emotions and so I've made myself unavailable to anyone that would get near me. It's incredibly frustrating, to say the very least. I'll be 25 in a couple of weeks (Dear God, the quarter century mark...I'm getting old. :D ) and I am so ready to start experiencing life. It just seems like there are so many wonderful emotions that have been locked away from me. I'm ready to unlock them.

Even with friends I find that I have difficulties. Fortunately I have a good group of friends that have helped me out a lot. But I noticed a pattern in how I made these friends. I became friends with them only on my own terms. I, more or less, initiated our friendship. If someone came to me to initiate a friendship I would run like hell. There's no way I could let myself be approached. Maybe it's a trust thing…I don't know. I've never thought trust was an issue for me but maybe so.

And as for romantic relationships, well, no way. I withdraw all to easily. When a woman has shown interest in me or has completely offered herself to me I totally withdraw. I always thought I liked girls but after feeling myself withdraw so often I really have to question my sexuality. Whether I like guys, I don't know. I'm becoming more at peace with that thought everyday but I do know that I like girls, at least a little bit.
Cement:
But I have tried, at the moment of feeling like I want to withdraw, to do the exact opposite. I reach out, just a little...it doesn't always work, and I definitely don't always remember, but it has given some comfort to try.
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First, part of me was glad to see you mention withdrawal because of our similar experiences. Secondly, I'll try to do the exact opposite. Maybe it will help.

Mike Church:
Intimacy is a huge issue for all of us. If you are ready to tackle it the first thing you have to do is trust someone completely. You had trust before you were abused and that trust was destroyed. It is a scary thing to do for all of us.

But it is important that you do it. You will feel you are standing on quick sand but that will pass. Just be sure of the other person.

Let them know the issues that it involves and be patient with yourself. It will not happen overnight. You should start slowly and safely for yourself and the other person. Do not be afraid to stumble. It has been a long time for you. And be gentle with yourself

Intimacy involves caring sharing and comfort. It is a huge step to take but well worth it believe me. My prayers are with you brother. Keep us informed
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What can I say? That was a wonderful bit of advice. I'll certainly take that to heart. Any other thoughts?
Okay, that's enough for now.
mike
 
Sleepy: About the only other thing I can think of is be yourself and try and relax. Easy to say and hard to do. But it will all be worth it believe me. Good Luck
 
Intimacy is a hard one for me. I am doing much better at it, but there are times like right now, that I just don't live in my skin (so to speak). It gets frustrating for me and usually this will past. Heck, just a few years ago (like maybe 3.5), I had not even experienced true intimacy with someone sexually. (psst.. and I'm 38). So I have to be careful that I don't get too hard on myself right now. My body is under a lot of stress with work, school and the fears of beginning down a path which is unknown at this point. But sometimes for me it is hard to not expect everything from myself.
 
This whole discussion is facinating to me... I have never thought about intimacy like this. I am 35 and while I've had sex, I can't say I've ever had intimacy. In fact I'm not even sure what intimacy would look like or feel like. I watched a young couple today at a resturant at lunch. They just held hands and stared into each others eyes speaking softly and kissing once in a while. They looked so comfortable with each other. I sat there thinking ... that is so wierd! That would freak me out to have someone stare into my eyes for that long!
I have spent so much of my life hiding and making sure NO ONE could look into my soul and see all the pain and shame hidden there. I can't imagine that kind of intimacy! To be honest I am not even sure I would ever want that level of intimacy. I wonder what that says about me...
Thanks to all who have posted please keep it going I am learning alot from you all!
Thanks,
Ron
 
I spent all of my (albeit young) life running away from intimacy and engaging in passionless sex... or attempting to find intimacy, only to get cold, abusive partners. I am finally in a relationship where intimacy is present and now that I have finally allowed myself to feel it I must say it is wonderful... it was really scary to let down my guard in order to connect but I think it was worth it. :)
 
Ron,
In fact I'm not even sure what intimacy would look like or feel like.
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Maybe we need to take a step backwards and ask the question, "What is intimacy?" It freaks me out too to let someone stare into my eyes so that they can see into my soul. My gut reaction is to guard everything I do and to not let anyone find out who I really am. Actually I don't even know who I really am so it is hard to let someone see the core person that I am. You mentioned hidden shame, boy, can I relate to that. I can't let someone see all the shame that I harbor. But this is something I want to breach so badly. I can see how wonderful it can be but just can't have.

SP,
Way to go. It seems like you are doing quite well from what I have read from your posts.

Don,
You are an inspiration for me. You've walked down this road and it seems like you too are doing quite well. Living in your skin, I don't think I know what that feels like. I'm still trying to answer the question of "Who am I?" But it's nice to see you doing so well.

Thanks guys,
mike
 
I just made a post related to this in the Family and Friends area...

https://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000235
 
I would like to think I have had intimacy, but I cannot say that I have, for sure.

And that thing about staring into someone's eyes creeps me out.

I want intimacy, but I am certain that the moment I give myself I will be betrayed. And I examine the situations in my life and see the times I have been betrayed, just for opening little.

I am going through one of those times right now. I will put it in another post.
 
I have never really had any level of intimacy with another person.

I'm only just now beginning to realize exactly why I've kept the world at arms length. A lot of pretty standard stuff for survivors apparently: belief that if they really knew me they wouldn't have anything to do with me, feeling like if anyone got close they would only hurt me, belief that I have nothing to bring to the table, that my only function would be to be used, stuff like that.

While most of these beliefs probably aren't accurate, I still feel this way a lot.

Added to that I have never in my life seen a relationship succeed. It was rare when I was ever able to see one that wasn't horrifficly disfunctional and painful. As a result, it is very difficult for me to make that huge step and let someone get close to me, because it will only end up being painful anyway.

It may be lonely keeping everyone at bay, but it's safe, and the last thing I need right now is more pain.

Eric
 
James,
Betrayed...yea, I know what that feels like. Like a used condom.

Eric,
belief that I have nothing to bring to the table
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Most of the time I just feel nothing. I am nothing and I have nothing to offer. It's like I'm on the outside looking in at everyone who is participating in life. I'm on the sidelines. How can you be intimate when you feel like this.
 
So what exactly is intimacy?
I guess I have been thinking about it and I can't figure out the difference between trust and intimacy. Can someone help us figure this out?
What does intimacy feel like, look like, etc.
 
This is a remarkably sad thread, so many of us are having this nightmare problem with intimacy.
Some are even struggling with the concept of being intimate.

I don't have any answers here either, I wish I had. But we owe it to ourselves and our partners to keep looking - dont we ?

I feel as though sex and intimate touching are two seperate things to me, but I know they shouldn't be.
If I have sex it's purely sex, I use a position that means I have the least body contact and once over I roll away. I hate it.
I hate watching people touch with tenderness, it's the hate of envy and rage.

I want to be intimate, but I don't know where to start. My group therapist is also a sex therapist and has suggested we go and see her, has anyone tried sex therapy ?

It's the macho thing again I suppose, admiting I need help ?

Dave :( :confused:
 
Ron: Intimacy is part trust and part giving without expectation. You have to trust the other completely and you have to give of yourself without expecting back in return. I does not have to involve sex. It can be a good friend. You have both feel comfortable in each others company and share lifes experiences openly and willingly. It is a great thing. It it also involves willingly letting down your guard.

MichaelB. Never say never MIke. It is too long a time. Try just not now. You will be surprised how intimacy comes up and grabs you all of a sudden. In a way you are imtimate with us because you let your guard down and let us in to your space. And we honour that trust as you do with us. So Maybe Just not now except here Mike.
 
Dave,
It's unfortunate because sex has become separated from the emotions that should go along with it. It becomes something that is just mechanical, whether real or imagined. But, yes, we owe it to ourselves and our partners (if we have one) to combine them again.
I hate watching people touch with tenderness, it's the hate of envy and rage.
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I can understand this. You want the nurturing so bad but for some reason you get repulsed when someone gets near. You can't let you guard down long enough to allow it to happen. When I see my parents kiss it really makes my skin crawl.

MikeChurch,
It seems like you have a good understanding of this. I can see how everything you said here has affected my life. I notice this the most with platonic friendships. I mentioned this in my opening post but I have always high tailed it out of there when someone tries to initiate a friendship. I guard myself just too much that I cannot allow this to happen. I usually can only be friends with someone if I initiate it. Romantic relationships follow this as well, though there's not really much to speak of.
 
To all of you who have posted here:

Every one of you, myself included, have difficulty with intimacy in any form.

Think for a minute. We all came to this Lair of the Wolves (I really like thinking of ourselves as a Strong Group because we SURVIVE) as strangers to each other. We are openly welcomed by those who have been here before us.

At first we are reserved, shy,in pain,and scaredBut we watch, we read, we hesitate and finally we open up ourselves to everyone here.

Now intimacy involves letting down your guard and sharing. As I said above sharing lifes experiences. I suspect that if we search within ourselves we have to admit we have been intimate here. We have been drawn by a common purpose, granted. And yet isn't that the same for any of life's situations, whether it be seeking a partner for life or a good friend. Now the ultimate form of intimacy between partners and friends is the desire to share with each other the love that we feel. It may be the love of cameraderie as with a friend or the love of a partner.

With a friend You share a part of the only thing you own; your body. And that part is your brain. It is what makes you unique. It contains your emotions, beliefs(real or imagined) and your humanity. Sharing that part of you with someone is huge. AND WE HAVE ALL DONE IT HERE :D

With a partner you share the part of what you own that is talked about above and in addition the rest of your body. It becomes a co-mingling of our very essences. And it is based upon trust, mutual respect, and a willingness on our and their part to do this. I am not a very religious person despite the religious connotation of my last name but I feel it is the merging of two souls for the better of both. :)

Now all you brother wolves dig deep and you will find that you have shared your brain here willingly and for the benefit of yourself and everyone here. SEE THAT IS CAMERADERIE. :cool:

I suspect that the reason we have difficulty elsewhere is to in a large part to body language and our self image. As someone posted we are terrified to let someone view our soul through our eyes. Or we are repulsed by a friendly gesture like an arm around the shoulder or a hug or a slap on the back for that matter. These are all natural events but we have a different slant on it because of our past. :(
I am sorry if this is so long but I need to say it all.

It is so important here that we continue to share and care and hug spiritually and slap on the back figuratively the sucesses and hold and weep together on the bumps of the road we are travelling.

We have found something here that cannot but help us in our struggle to discover intimacy in our daily lives.
:)

Now some of us are lucky and have caring and loving partners and we should be thankful for that because we are not created to be alone. Some of us also have good friends for the same reason.

Now I ask you. Are they not willing to share care hold slap on the back and use every other form of intimate behaviour depending on their relationship with you.

We are learning it here on an emotional level and they can guide us on a practical level. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS LET THEM. ;) ;) ;)

Yes we have our family here but we also need the other so lets just do it. It is scary I know but dammit we owe it to ourselves and those who love us in their own way to give work our asses off on this.

This post has been very dificult to write and was prompted by all of you who have posted here and those of you who are part of this lair.

There is one of us here, though, who has actually displayed a real willingness and desire to share lifes intimate experiences with me and has caused me to do the same with him. It has helped me more than he can know and for that I thank him and am forever grateful fot the experience. He knows who he is and that is sufficient for me.

I REALLY BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD THANK THOSE THAT SUPPORT US AND SHARE WITH US LIFE AND ALL IT CAN BE. SO TO THE REST OF THE PACK A GREAT BIG THANKYOU.

NUFF SAID
 
I have been pretty quiet. When things are going good, I guess there seems like less to say. On the issue of intimacy though, I felt I wanted to post something. So many here have posted great things, and deep feelings, but I wanted to say my piece I guess.

Sex and intimacy are two totally separate things, but so very much the same thing too. When I first achieved intimacy just last year, I was almost shocked. It was such a strange feeling to be united with someone, and sharing my very soul with her. I dont know that it is possible to put it into words, but I do know what has to happen to achieve it.

You have to totally let go of all your reservations, doubts and fear. It is sharing with someone at every level of your being. To achieve it, a person must place their trust totally in another, and that was very hard for me. I had to trust my wife with all the ugliness I had always hid, with all the embarrassing sexual fantasies and past I had. I had to trust her not to judge me, and to support me and love me despite those things. Not everyone would be lucky enough to find a person that would do that, but I was.

The difference between holding someone in your arms for sex, and holding someone like you want to get inside their body with them are two totally different things. The level comes and goes, but when it is strongest, sex is unimportant, an after thought. You are engulfed with her, with being with her, with her taste, with her sent, with how she looks and feels. Man just thinking of the first time I felt it gives me goosebumps. It has cooled to a degree from when it was at its best, but I suppose most things are that we. We are still very intimate. I have finally found someone that I can totally share with. I brood over things sometimes, but I always return to her, and we end up talking and sharing everything. She accepts me despite issues with my sexuality, despite my perverse tastes and insecure nature. We have shared things that I thought I would never share with anyone. I am indeed lucky, for after a lifetime lacking it, I now know what true intimacy is like. I dont always take care of it, and sometimes I loose it, but I always find my way back to it
 
Hi Men!

I am different in some ways from most of you who have posted. I have a tendency to over-disclose to a person who might be a near stranger. It took a class in counseling to let me realise how that can be frightening for the person I am talking to.

It is not at all difficult for me to blurt things out to a person who I am not much atached to and do not have a continuing relationship with. But friends I see regularly, and who know me fairly well--no way. I don't like to open my feelings to such a person. I feel I have been hurt too often by people I got too close to.

What I have learned about intimacy is:

Intimacy is a process
Intimacy requires mutuality--I can't pour out my innermost being to someone who tells me little, if anything, about themselves.
Eventually, with some one I like and who has revealed themsel;ves to me, I can open a little, then a little more. But only if the other person is opening to me to.
Intimacy requires trust and that does not come quickly for a survivor.
Emotional intimacy often leads to physical intimacy, but for me that stops at hugs and holding a person for a little time. Kissing and sex are two things I have not been able to move towards--but I have desired them.
Intimacy does not have to lead to sexuality. I have people I am fairly intimate with, but would not move into physical or sexual intimacy and still I feel really fulfilled by the freindship.

Unfortunately, I am pretty guarded in my relationships. I open up here because it is still kind of safe and anonymous.

Peace to us all.

Bob
 
For me, intimacy only exists in my fantasies. It is the world that I retreat to where I can feel comfortable with myself: by being someone else. I create an image that is not me and through that I feel comfort, happiness , needed and gratification. Everything posted in the positive here on the side of intimacy "sounds" great in the group-therapy kind of way. But what does it all really mean. :confused:
 
Intimacy. most private or personal is what the dictionary says. So to be intimate with someone else would be what, a willingness to share what is most private or personal with someone else? Sounds like a friend. Sounds like a lover. Sounds like someone you could share your heart with. Maybe that's why it hurts so much when someone abuses the priviledge of sharing what is most private and personal to us--it's a stab in the heart.
I think of my daughters when after they've been bathed and had climbed up into my lap for their story, that I understand intimacy on a very personal level. So trusting and vulerable and delicate and they come with their book and want to be read to. I'll never forget their fresh baby powder smell and semi damp hair as they snuggled in for their story; never suspecting that they were writing their story, on my heart.
Knowing my wife intimately has been the other gift in my life. The teacher who seduced and abused me and made me feel like shit, and the woman who accepted me and loved me and allowed
me to experience intimacy in the way that it was designed; it has been almost too much to comprehend.
I have hated life for the abuse I've suffered and I've dropped to my knees in thanksgiving for the love I've received. I can even love back now.
Intimacy, being able to welcome someone else into your arms without reservation.
 
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