Intimacy - Feeling like I'm abusing

Intimacy - Feeling like I'm abusing
A

Adam A Gedman

Registrant
Not sure how to best describe this, but here goes.

For the last few weeks, anytime my wife and I get intimate, I feel like my touch, or anything I do in participation is abusive.
The feeling is disturbing and is becoming limiting.
I don't want this to drag out too much as I have built up in my head that the longer this goes on the more difficult it will be to move past it.
I can understand the feeling is not a true representation of reality, intellectually, and have asked my wife to reinforce this by verbalizing and positively acknowledging my actions, but the background feeling is that I am abusing her.
Obviously this is connected to the abuse I suffered, but I don't seem to be able to get past this, and am now avoiding intimacy all together.
I mentioned this to my T last session but did not have enough time to address it, and my next appt isn't for another few weeks.

I am hoping someone else may have encountered and gotten past this, and would be willing to share what you did or how you got past this.
 
It's something quite common in all of us who survived sexual abuse, imagine thinking of water, immediately you can relate water to concepts such as wet, or cold and hot. Or perhaps to a river or a lake maybe an ocean.
The same dynamic works with everything in our brains, we associate names, faces, colors, or emotions to certain experiences in our lives. With sex it's the same way, some people think of the time they lost their virginity others when they had to face the dragon of rape. I feel this every time i show interest in a woman, i immediately assume that my touch is defiling, that somehow my sexual assertiveness will make me somehow exactly like the shit bag who raped me, pardon my french.

Association dynamics..I can also add that somehow when i feel this i do not feel clean, i feel contaminated by something. Dirty and foul. Again it is that feeling of carrying this toxic event in my psyche.
What works best for me is knowing that some ideas and thoughts are really not mine, see the mind is just like a reflex organ it reacts to whatever it is stimulated by.
And having sex with an evil being is not the best way to be stimulated at age 3. I get infuriated and rage full just typing this hideous reality.

Best is to relax, create a sanctuary around your sex life, Honor it as you would the holy grail, that way you are establishing a protective aura around it. It is golden white and pure, and whenever you step into that sacred kingdom no evil can follow you there. Try to separate as much as possible sex from the rape. Make an occasion out of it, light candles, incense, talk to each other as much as possible during it to avoid going back into your head that way you will stay in the body. Granted some pretty scary emotions might come up and might be released, but that is what the sanctuary is for. Decorate everything in things that make you feel comfortable inside the bedroom, place statues of hindu love making gods in your room, or posters of things that remind you of positive sexual attitudes,use a special pair of sheets for when you are making love. Give it time , patience and lots of temperance will be required but it gets better!

Hope this helps!

Happy Lovemaking my friend.
 
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Adam,

My suggestion is to keep the light on during love making, if she'll allow it. In the dark its easier to let your mind go other places. Light helps keep you connected to the present reality that this is NOT abuse. My other thought is to just not let that "abusing" feeling stop you from being intimate with your wife. Perhaps by feeling those feelings, and doing it anyway, they will begin to fade.

And remember this is not just all about you. There's another person at the other end of your penis, looking to you for love, affirmation, acceptance, and pleasure. Don't deny her those things, while you work this out.

Be well,

Jude
 
Not to assume too much here, but I assume your abuser(s) violation of you was primarily by his penis, so it's not too surprising that the thought might come up now and then (even though it's based on something that happened many years ago) that "I'm abusive in the same way." But the penis isn't the only thing going for you in love making. Not to be too graphic, but the hands, arms, legs, mouth, lips, eyes, and tongue, and yes WORDS may also be used in a positive affirming - non abusive way. You mentioned that you had asked your wife for help by verbalizing and positively acknowledging your actions. But you can do the same thing by verbalizing your actions, acknowledging to yourself, and your wife, that you aren't abusive. Your actions for all these years haven't been abusive, and they certainly aren't now.

Fortunately this feeling is only temporary. Good luck and best wishes that it will be soon passing.

CJ
 
This happened to me and still does some times. What i have found work for me is to make the environment safe. Meaning smells, sounds
and sights. I defuse essential oil, play soft music and bring flowers in the room. I also found that telling my wife that I am scared and full of fear of hurting her has helped a lot. We go slow
some times just holding each other for a long time. I think by making the moments of intimacy special different from the past when it was all about me as an object is what helps. Making it about us, making love not pain. Do what you feel safe with dont force it and dont try to compare to how it used to be.
As time go's on it has gotten better and I feel safe with my body and with sex.
(((((HUGS)))))
 
This happened to me and still does some times. What i have found work for me is to make the environment safe. Meaning smells, sounds
and sights. I defuse essential oil, play soft music and bring flowers in the room. I also found that telling my wife that I am scared and full of fear of hurting her has helped a lot. We go slow
some times just holding each other for a long time. I think by making the moments of intimacy special different from the past when it was all about me as an object is what helps. Making it about us, making love not pain. Do what you feel safe with dont force it and dont try to compare to how it used to be.
As time go's on it has gotten better and I feel safe with my body and with sex.
(((((HUGS)))))
 
Adam,

Hope the words above were helpful.

My wife used to ask me if making love brought back memories of my abuse. I used to say no and that is what I believed. In the last two years I have come to realize that EVERYTHING around sex was tied to my abuse. Every time I made love to my wife I was in some level of fear. All of the physical acts of making love were tied to those moments of abuse and the fear I had as a kid when it was happening. As I confronted all the issues surrounding the trauma of being abused with therapy and freinds I became less fearful of what happened too me and that in turn had a dramatic effect on a physical level - the fear drove me on a physical level. Without it I had problems physically making love to me wife. That was a very tough time for both of us. We did get through it eventually with perseverance and love.

There wasn't one thing that fixed it. In the last two plus years I have spent a lot of time in thearapy, reading books and making changes in my life that have given me a greater understanding of what happened to me and how it has affected me all these years later. That knowledge was a tool that I have been able to successfully use too fight my fears.

If something troubles me I shine every light on it that I can. I talk about it, think about it and confront it every way and when I understand it I am usually able to make changes for the better.

Best of luck with these issues my firend ((((Adam))))
 
Thanks all for your replies.

I had a complete aversion to sex shortly after starting therapy, but this is different.
In therapy we have discussed my self developed trait of denying my emotions, almost entirely.
It would take a significant event to reveal the one emotion I was aware of, anger. Everything else was all jumbled together, in a mass of unidentifiable stuff.
So identifying my feelings is a major hurdle for me.

CJ, to your point, yes the perps penis is what I remember about the attack that made it all wrong. But it was the touch before that, I was unable to understand at the time. I asked if he was a doctor, it seems so silly now, but I had no way to understand what was happening and only my doctor touched me where and how he did.
The vast majority of the actual assault I have no recollection of, as I was either unconscious, as I was being suffocated with his hands, or I have blocked it out, or perhaps dissociated. My T leans toward unconsciousness. I'm not quite convinced.

Rich to your point, I think sex and fear are very closely entwined for me as well. Again not really conscious of what it was, just that it felt off many times. But it was never all the time, at least as far as I can identify. Something to look closer at.

JPM, I like your points about association. This I can connect with. I've spent some time reading up about associations, gender socialization and identification in the last while and your points about the thoughts not being mine resonate with me.
It seems so obvious once pointed out, but painfully difficult to identify myself.

I also like the idea from Bluesky, JPM and CJ, making it special, doing something to set it apart.
Sights, sounds, smells etc, all have mental connections, and associations so this sounds positive to me, and holds potential.
Thanks for that.

Jude, you highlight something I am leaving out. It is not just about me, my wife is part of this and being so focused on my aversion doesn't take into account how she feels. A little too much focus on me, and not enough on us.
There is likely some value in feeling the feelings, as opposed to denying them as I have done for so long.

Thank you all again.
I'm not cured, but having something to develop a strategy with feels positive.
 
Adam -

i have experienced something similar. at the worst period, any time there was any degree of physical or emotional intimacy, i would get triggered and thrown into a sort of mentally-induced "paralysis." it wasn't that i was literally unable to move, but my emotions were so strong that i was unable to muster the volition to act. i would just shut down - not communicate, go numb, not move. the worst part was that i could still get physically aroused - but could not bring myself to do anything about it in the normal and natural way with my wife - only in solitude. and the interior conflict was ripping me apart.

i recognized that if i took the initiative in sexual activity, i felt like an abuser - but if she took the initiative, then i felt like i was being abused - even though both of us were consenting and desiring to make love.

our therapist gave us some exercises to do that helped.

one was to experiment with different kinds of touch on various parts of the body - starting with safer areas and gradually progressing to more erogenous zones - taking it very slow - and asking at each different spot and type of touch - "do you like this or not?" we could learn to do the things that were pleasing to the other and avoid those that caused anxiety or discomfort. eventually, fewer spots and fewer types of touch caused any problems. it was important in this "game" to have no expectations - not force ourselves to push through to intercourse, but to stop when we felt we needed to. the first time it was fully clothed, next time, bare skin above the waist, and finally - fully nude - but only once we felt ready.

another thing was to begin foreplay with very tame and safe kinds of caresses and gentle stimulation but to ask permission of one another before initiating anything different from what we had already done. this gave a sense of safety and security - and control - so that we felt as though we were both participating equally and no one was being taken advantage of.

we didn't have to keep on doing these exercises any longer than we felt they were helpful. and they did help. we were able to move on relatively soon after establishing that we were both on an equal footing. no one was in a position of power over the other. and we were both participating fully and voluntarily and wanted to move ahead.

hope this might help.

LEE
 
Yeah, that's the whole thing about coming here, whatever path you choose to take we have a community of wisdom from many blessed people who can come in here and share their life story. I sometimes feel that the rape is no longer dominating the narrative of my life and can honestly feel a change. If you follow your heart and stay true to the beauty in in you will find a paradise of lovemaking my friend.

We All are a family of people i would dare say who are trying to turn grief into joy, and these are our stories.
 
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I wish I could achieve what justplaneme is talking about but for me it's impossible. Even if I imagine just holding hands with a girl, patting her on the back or giving someone a hug, it makes me feel disgusting, I have no filter for what she is feeling but my own experience. I've even had nightmares of sitting and talking to a girl and then suddenly being accused of sa, sometimes this has gone as far as imagining myself in court before a judge trying to explain that I just wanted a conversation.

For me, the one thing I've always wanted is just the acknolidgement that someone wants that form of closenss with me, sinse while for me anything and everything to do with s/x shades from disgust to terror, I know that is not the same for others and part of me suspects there is another side to this, love making as justplaneme says, however I've never even come close. To me female friends are just that, female friends.

What I've always wanted is someone to simply say the way they felt, tell me it's okay, explain what they're doing, communicate. But of course I'm male so I get none of this sinse it's always the man who must put themselves forward and communicate their feelings and the woman who is silent and acknolidges or not.

This is why i've always failed at any sort of intimate relationship, while I've equally been sure that my genophobia is something I could get around if I had that relationship, as clearly you do with your wife.
 
dark empathy said:
I wish I could achieve what justplaneme is talking about but for me it's impossible. Even if I imagine just holding hands with a girl, patting her on the back or giving someone a hug, it makes me feel disgusting, I have no filter for what she is feeling but my own experience. I've even had nightmares of sitting and talking to a girl and then suddenly being accused of sa, sometimes this has gone as far as imagining myself in court before a judge trying to explain that I just wanted a conversation.

For me, the one thing I've always wanted is just the acknolidgement that someone wants that form of closenss with me, sinse while for me anything and everything to do with s/x shades from disgust to terror, I know that is not the same for others and part of me suspects there is another side to this, love making as justplaneme says, however I've never even come close. To me female friends are just that, female friends.

What I've always wanted is someone to simply say the way they felt, tell me it's okay, explain what they're doing, communicate. But of course I'm male so I get none of this sinse it's always the man who must put themselves forward and communicate their feelings and the woman who is silent and acknolidges or not.

This is why i've always failed at any sort of intimate relationship, while I've equally been sure that my genophobia is something I could get around if I had that relationship, as clearly you do with your wife.
Click to expand...
\

Dark empathy i know you write a lot, i've read your magnificent posts, i want you to know that before discovering my and the true nature of a healthy sexuality, i went through 6 years of intense PTSD flashbacks that almost crippled me psychologically. I never left my home nor did i have contact physically in any satisfying way with a woman, it was always a way of proving to myself that nothing was wrong that i was O.K., which i wasn't. Things changed the moment i realized how fucked up everything i knew about sex was. I discovered that all my emotions and thoughts had been completely re-arranged around the experience of the abuse, to the point like you say that i felt disgusting just being around people. And to this day i still feel the side effects of regression from learned behavior but in a different way. Every time i have those thoughts i dis-identify from them, acknowledge them as a way of my psyche trying to give me back a piece of information about what is going on inside me, if it all of a sudden triggers my mouth for example as i was orally raped, it's a way of my body telling me that i'm back at the age of 3 all over again, i'm no longer 30 years old and my brain has gone into flight,fight,or freeze mode... A while back i decided to hack my own mind and see shit for what it really was. By the way. I have not seen a day of therapy in my life, i have done this all through intense reading, medical and psychological at the doctorate level, which all really is helpful but the most soothing balm for me was the miracle of compassion and acceptance of myself.
I began to love myself, and saw how much hate and murderous rage i carried around me. I sometimes feel incapable of letting someone in my mind let alone my heart, for fear that they will feel those feeling i have through their own perception or intercept my thoughts with their intuition and will catalogue me a monster. Yet i began to love myself and saw how all of this insanity going around in my mind was a clear , nay...crystal clear reflection of my poor little ego trying to cope with this holocaust that my soul was exposed to. Fuck if you feel fucked up, well we went through a fucked up thing. It's normal. Like you stated i don't think society wants men to be weak, or vulnerable no matter their age. And we are supposed to be assertive , first on the scene, get on top type of people, but i say we limit humanity when we try to put people in little boxes.
I feel the same way about wanting somebody like you do, yet like you say i feel dirty at times and wish never to be seen. Like frankenstein. All though this emotions are there, i remind myself that that isn't who i am. And my pain makes me incredible, and that no matter how hideous i feel, i am worthy of love.

I am the beast determined to plant a beautiful garden in my soul, that way my beauty will come, she will see that despite the hideousness that i have to battle i have stayed true to tomorrow by way of my love of beauty.

I wish you my most sincere and warmhearted support.
 
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I do appreciate your thought justpaneme, and that is a very beautifully written message, however the problem is I'm getting so totally, completely and utterly bloody sodding sick! of this! of being 30 and seeing all those friends I knew when I was 19 (most of them female), be married and have very committed relationships and what's worse, drift off and have less and less to do with me sinse they're too busy with families and whatever. I'm sick Of always being the person other people (especially women), come to for help, yet never managing to crack that glass. Of being constantly told "oh your a really nice person, you would make a good boyfriend" then seeing people swan off and find their own relationships while I'm left alone with my genophobic nightmares.

It was even trying to asert myself, to make a minimal gesture of physical affection to let a girl know how I felt that opened pandora's box and shattered the illusion that I was fine 7 years ago and prompted me to come on this forum and actually try recovery.

Your statement of frankenstein's monster is pretty accurate, heck my favourite character from musicals if the phantom of the opera, the problem is for 7 years of hard work on all this I'm still no closer, I've still never kissed anyone, I've still never had someone say the way they felt about me. When I imagine what I want the notion of actually going to bed with someone is still way beyond, but just sitting holding hands, cuddling, talking quietly and kissing would be enough, ---- however it seems my expectations are too high because guess what, "your a nice person, --- -but mmmm, no!"

I do appreciate your advice and your writing, and I am going to go and have therapy on this this year, but to be honest I'm just getting dam sick of people talking about what I need to do about me! when what I want to know is how to inspire that communication in others!

i meet a girl, we become friends, we spend time together, we go out for coffee, ---- then what? I'm frankly frustrated as hell!

I know exactly where my genophobia and attitude about s/x come from, it's hardly rocket science to understand that pubity + total social isolation, + interlligence over stupid s/xually themed jokes + bullying + s/xual humiliation = genophobia. The problem is I'm powerless to do anything about it, indeed while I am quite aware relationships do not solve everything I do suspect that one way to solve my genophobia would simply be to give me the positive association of something which has always been negative to me, to turn s/x into love making if you like.
This is another reason I feel so hurt by the fact that the closest and most intimate contact I have had with anyone was while being violently insulted and publically humiliated.

I also will confess I feel an intensive and unreasoning jealousy towards women, or rather women's place in society with respect to relationships. This is nothing against any particular woman personally, indeed I often end up acting as brother confessor or counsellor to women on relationships (occasionally men but more often women), but just women generally.

I went on a forum about genophobia a few weeks ago and every sinle story I read was from a woman saying "ooooh, is so terrible, I have a boyfriend and we've been together for years, he loves me but I can't stand the thought of going to bed withg him!"

Part of me wanted to post on that forum "Oh for god's sake! shut the hell up with your bloody! wining! what's your fucking problem! you have a boyfriend! so just sort your fucking life out!"

Not nice I know, but this is what I mean, it just seems the thing I want most, for someone to just say they liked me or wanted to be close to me is something women get simply by being women! because in our oh so enlightened society guess who must always make the first move and guess who gets to sit and take the offers and accept or reject as man after man puts themselves on the auction block. I can't help feeling resentful about this sinse the thought of making that move is disgusting! Indeed were I the least bit attracted towards men I'd seriously considder having my gender medically reassigned just because it seems so easy for women to achieve this and so impossible for men, or at least for me.

After all how many thirty year old women do you know who have never had any sort of relationship beyond several years of public gang rape.

I will confess after making two posts this morning on this smae subject, I'm very tempted to quit ms again, as I attempted to do at the start of this year (I only returned after my doctorate got rejected), sinse it seems all being here does is reitterate my bitterness on this subject. I've in effect come to a complete a dead end with no way to turn but frustration.

I won't leave (heck I said I'd start therapy and try to sort this dam thing out), but I will admit the thought is tempting sinse i know just how contempatable my constant winjing on this subject is.

Luke.
 
I feel your frustration it definitely is a fucking tragedy. I don't know about many things. Yet i do feel your frustration, maybe your trying to be to others what you would want to have them be to you., i know i certainly spent a whole lot of my emotional life that way. Don't give yourself away so cheaply, you are worth so much more than you can fathom at this moment.
Whine away man, it's good for you. The faster you feed your anger the lest likely you are to express it onto others. The bullying is a piece of shit,i feel deep down inside you have a strong person, perhaps way too strong and you try to minimize him by being Nice to women, heck man...for all i know inside you is a casanova.
 
I just remembered a woman wrote Frankenstein,so we are definitely one cool chicks type at the very least ;)
 
whenever I have asked my friends (of both genders), exactly how they got together with their respective partners, they just talk about some sort of mysterious signals. Well I seem unable to pick up those signals, perhaps because my s/xuality is pretty broken, I don't know, again why the hell do women have it so fucking easy?

I've only ever tried to actively make my feelings known three times, and on two out of three of those occasions I got the same response "I'm flattered!" words which i pretty much hate for just how taudry and worthless they really are, for all I know they weren't meant that way.

The first of those three was a pleasant thing at the time, and even if it didn't have the consequence I wanted it did leave me feeling hopeful, however I hate that memory now and would like to track down the girl in question and tell her just how wrong she was.

The behaviour of a casanova or anyone who seaks just the physical, especially being as pushy as people liek Casanova are reputed to be I find down right disgusting. If I just wanted the physical I'd hyer a prostitute and have done, but the thought of that I find makes me sick. Then again what should I expect
***(possible trigger warning***

after I spent two years as a teenager mb'ing each morning and evening purely for the purpose of not getting an errection that would prompt another round, indeed I used to sit in class trying to force my body to stop it's reactions.

I heard of a man recently who'd been in afganistan in the army and had stood on a mine. He'd been winjing about the fact that he'd lost his genitals and couldn't have kids, --- -but talking about how much his girlfriend supported him. God I emvy that man!

Btw, regarding Frankenstien, Ironically enough, Mary shelly was reputedly quite a shy and retiring woman married to an over baring, and arrogant poet who had a string of affairs. Reputedly his comment upon learning how his wife had decided to write a book about electricity bringing things to life was "oh, so my little woman is following in my! footsteps"

The great irony of course is that now, while literature students still know the man's poems, that "little' woman's" book is known by people all over the world and is a classic of early science fiction, ---- though as a story it's a bit worrying (particularly the idea of Victor Frankenstein essentially marrying his foster sister).
 
So much great advice in this thread. I've been rather nervous about re-engaging in sexual activity whenever that should come up (I'm not there yet, but want to be) and it's calming to read this thread and have ideas for how to approach things.

Adam, when you talk about not being sure if you were unconscious or dissociated or what during your abuse, I think of how during my abuse I froze and dissociated...separated the pain of being raped from my reality simply because I had nowhere to run and nobody to help me, which made riding out the pain by disconnecting that part of the brain that felt it the go-to option for my body at that time...just a thought on what might be driving that feeling in you.
 
dark empathy said:
whenever I have asked my friends (of both genders), exactly how they got together with their respective partners, they just talk about some sort of mysterious signals. Well I seem unable to pick up those signals, perhaps because my s/xuality is pretty broken, I don't know, again why the hell do women have it so fucking easy?

I've only ever tried to actively make my feelings known three times, and on two out of three of those occasions I got the same response "I'm flattered!" words which i pretty much hate for just how taudry and worthless they really are, for all I know they weren't meant that way.

The first of those three was a pleasant thing at the time, and even if it didn't have the consequence I wanted it did leave me feeling hopeful, however I hate that memory now and would like to track down the girl in question and tell her just how wrong she was.

The behaviour of a casanova or anyone who seaks just the physical, especially being as pushy as people liek Casanova are reputed to be I find down right disgusting. If I just wanted the physical I'd hyer a prostitute and have done, but the thought of that I find makes me sick. Then again what should I expect
***(possible trigger warning***

after I spent two years as a teenager mb'ing each morning and evening purely for the purpose of not getting an errection that would prompt another round, indeed I used to sit in class trying to force my body to stop it's reactions.

I heard of a man recently who'd been in afganistan in the army and had stood on a mine. He'd been winjing about the fact that he'd lost his genitals and couldn't have kids, --- -but talking about how much his girlfriend supported him. God I emvy that man!

Btw, regarding Frankenstien, Ironically enough, Mary shelly was reputedly quite a shy and retiring woman married to an over baring, and arrogant poet who had a string of affairs. Reputedly his comment upon learning how his wife had decided to write a book about electricity bringing things to life was "oh, so my little woman is following in my! footsteps"

The great irony of course is that now, while literature students still know the man's poems, that "little' woman's" book is known by people all over the world and is a classic of early science fiction, ---- though as a story it's a bit worrying (particularly the idea of Victor Frankenstein essentially marrying his foster sister).
Click to expand...

see what i mean, no man who is too nice can write that way...
 
"no man who is too nice can write that way"

I'm afraid you've lost me with that one Justplaneme. Do you mean me in the previo0us post, the rather scummy Percy Shelly, or Frankenstein marrying his sister?

I am also utterly confused about "too nice" what the hell does that mean? I try to be a good friend to people, to provide good conversation, to help if needed. what is "too nice" about this.

there was a topic a while ago in the f&F room called "what women want" that topic right royally pissed me off because it basically just listed all of the things I do anyway?

i am constantly being told by people what a good bf/husband I'd make (the marital status usually depends upon the lady), so what the hell else am I supposed to do?

I've asked my male friends, ---- well the ones who actually wanted relationships rather than just something purely physical, and at least according to their own account they did nothing different, they were friends, ---- nothing accept these "signals" they keep mysteriously talking about which I've never got at all, ---- and why the fuck should I? women don't have to worry about fucking signals, they ju8st get asked! and then accept or decline.

No wonder women are supposed to like shopping, "so how much for this man today? what's on offer? no, ---- sorry I'm only willing to give an I'm flattered, not good enough I'll go to the next shop and try on another to see if itfits"
 
You know when women say i like him he's so nice, but would never think of him as a romantic possibility? And that stupid myth that women only like assholes? I think women like passionate men. And you write as a passionate man my friend. So i feel you got great lover energy inside you in raw form, i know for me it's been that way, i had all the answers but never knew how to articulate my desires to women. It's hard, i discovered i had a lot of anger towards women too, something i think i projected for the feelings of abandonment for my mother. It's a tough journey for those of us who were fucked up by the hate that has been carried on generation by generation.
 
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