Internet security and beware!

Internet security and beware!
R

reality2k4

Registrant
I read this alarming article, and this is what you guys need to avoid like the plague.

Heres a case for you. Bloke goes onto the internet to an ADULT porn site. Trouble is he does it via a link on a page that run by the child porn perverts running the operation ore target sites. The bloke is a teacher so his name goes on the list of people to visit at 6am. No one ever finds any kiddie porn -thats because he never downloaded any. Trouble is he has pictures of young women 16-18 years. Perfectly legal when he downloaded them but now 18 is the minimum age (sexual offences act 2003). Couldnt get him for anything else and no one wanted to waste the time spent on the raid so he got cautioned for this. Of course he wont be working as a teacher anymore now Ruth Kelly says no one on the sex offenders register can work as a teacher. Oh, and his wife left him as soon as she heard his computer had been seized in a kiddie porn raid. I hear the number of suicides linked to operation ore is now up to 36.
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This is the culmination of just one case of a man who has lost everything for doing nothing.

These "sting" sites can be anywhere on the internet, and it is so easy to be falsely labelled as being sex offender.

The police are using 'illegal' practises to lure pervs by running child porn sites, and I fear that not many kids have been 'rescued' in these operations.

Why not target the ones who make this crap, real perps would not need to follow the sting links, they already network amongst themselves, so the cops dont bother getting the right ones.

BTW, if you get spam email with linke to child porn, never open them and securely delete them, or better still, report them using the abuse link.

ste
 
you know, i used to really act out with a lot of porn, especially amature stuff. there were a few pictures on ocasion that might have been children. one time i clicked on a link someone had provided and the first picture i saw scared me away. i can completely understand how someone can link in without fully realizing that it is a link to children. i mean the name never comes out and annouces it is children does it? i think our officials need to consider each person. a man whose computer has one suspect link is a whole different thing that pedophiles with countless links and pictures. that is what is so hard about the law, we want it to be cut and dry, but it isnt. it is a living, breathing thing, and we all want the right ones punished, and unfortunately too often the wrong ones sometimes get caught up in it.
 
Ste

Be careful where you are getting this information from as this is exactly the type of propaganda the sites I have been monitering are putting out. It is everyone elses fault except the downloaders, its the police, the media, the politicians. The two sites that I watch have a great deal of negative stuff to say about CEOP, the NSPCC, Phoenix survivors, NCH and the Internet Watch Foundation and anyone else for that matter that have dealings with child protection, etc and they believe that these servics are doing it just for the money, they have a particular dislike for people such as Jim Gamble (Google him with CEOP) to know more about what Mr Gamble does and Ms. Margaret Moran the Labour MP for Luton South, both of these people according to the sites that are watched are "LIARS" and manipulators of the truth, funny that the people saying this have similar characteristics.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"
 
Kirk, I got this off a uk cops weblog.
He can see failings, and is trying to make changes to identify real perps.

It is pretty sad that the cops get it wrong sometimes and ruin somebodys life when they are indeed innocent.

I am well aware of the hate mail that Phoenix gets, so I always put a subject line if I email them.

My own computer blocks out malicious sites and pop ups, but a pop up leaves a thumbnail in internet cache, even if you delete it, it is still there.

I take these precautions after looking at my internet cache, I found it with quite a bit of shady stuff there, then I found the answer.
The pop up blocker was not fully set, and the russian crack site opens tons of pop ups that I have not linked to.

After seeing all this stuff in cache, I shredded all those files with eraser.
I too could have fell victim without knowing, if I was not looking through the cache.

Kids are the worst ones for going on sites with malicious pop ups, and then daddy ends up in court for nothing, his kids get taken away, the whole family splits up, etc, etc.

Just an awareness really,

ste
 
Point well made, its not so much webpages that you have to be wary of although there is a much risk with them as anything else but P2P programmes (Kazza, Bit Torrent, etc, etc).

I know of one particular individual that was busted in Operation Ore who maintains his innocence but you have to ask yourself the question "Why is this guy an active member of an advice website for Orees (as they like to call themselves) set up, moderated, managed and maintained by a (self confessed) registered sex offender?".

The usual thing by these individuals is to accept a caution instead of going to trial as that stops the family name being printed in the media, however by accepting a caution they have to admit guilt as well. It is certainly a grey area that needs looking at but personally I cannot see another way around it.

I read a news story earlier today that says that American Express cardholders are not able to sign up to dodgy (pornographic) websites, maybe this is the way forward, but I think credit card clearing houses here in the UK will have something to say about that.


Can I ask you a question Ste?

What do you mean by "real perps"?

Those who actually produce the stuff by doing the abusing and capturing it digitally (or on film) or the well respected, community leader that just happens to like veiwing the stuff?

IMHO they are both as bad as one another ... they each fuel each others desire. If there was no market for such images there would be no such images available, I am however not that niaeve to think the market in images of a sexual assault on a child (as I prefer to call them)will end up extinct.


Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing i about a bit"
 
Kirk,

Can I ask you a question Ste?

What do you mean by "real perps"?
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Obviously the ones who make it are the very worst followed by the ones who distribute it.

Those who pay for it, are actually helping to keep those sites in business and making lucrative profits, mostly out of the most vulnerable kids who need money to survive.

Those sites that you are monitoring have thousands of perps who swap images between them, and cannot see anything wrong in freely talking about their 'fantasies'.

They call themselves 'boy lovers', and that is how they view what they do, that is the sting the cops should follow.

I have DC++ on my machine, but have not run it for a year, when I did run it, child porn is identified as a no no, and they have robots that check your share.

Each hub has a robot built into the software, and will snatch your IP if you have child porn and report it to the relevent authority.

Kazaa and other P2Ps are full of kid porn, it is these places the gurus should look to find perps who share it, and bang them up.

It is well known that Governments, in their search for cheap ways of doing things, make huge mistakes in not paying the right ppl to make a difference in tracking perps.

They have an idea, throw buckets of money on something that is not likely to work, and then pull out to save more money, like the CSA system, that has caused havoc and lost billions in tax payers money.

Wow, could I tell you a story, cannot print it here in public,

ste
 
Kirk,

just as an addendum, I look on this sort of sordid topic the same as you.
I have to look at what I see the police doing in these operations.

Ok, they may have helped a few kids, but the real boylovers are still at large and doing the worst damage, when police are busy throwing money down the drain in finding say maybe, one in twenty they catch are perps who abuse.

I bounce stuff around in my head, and I am thinking, why? Do they spend so much money on people who may fanticise.

Dont forget, I was abused too, so I am just thinking of best ways to tackle the problem, and the big problem is, they catch people in these stings to cover up the lack of work they do in real child protection.

I speak as I see, and never lie intentionally, guess thats me.
The answers belong with survivors, not the authorities, and I guess it is ultimately up to us to re-edjucate those who edjucate our lives.

ste

sorry for typos
 
OK, there's a few things that need to be addressed here.


Firstly, we know that many children have been or are being used to produce child pornography. We know those children are in danger and need to be helped right NOW. So we need to identify them.

- How do we identify children who are being used in child pornography? Principally, by finding child pornography that depicts them, so that we know exactly who needs help.

- How do we find child pornography? We must examine the collections of pedophiles who download the stuff. Of course, such people don't really publically brag about their collections, so

- How do we find pedophiles who download the stuff? By setting up a website which convinces such a person that he is able to download some such material there, and waiting for him to take active, knowledgeable steps to facilitate such a transfer. There is a good chance somebody trying to download child pornography may already have some.

To get one thing out of the way, and quickly: law enforcement does not ever send anybody any kind of illegal material. They cannot do it, and they don't. That the authorities entrap people by setting up sites with real child porn on them is one of those urban legends told in perpetrator circles, like the ridiculous Young-American notion that if you ask an undercover cop three times if he's a cop, on the third time he is somehow REQUIRED to admit it. However, just as a law enforcement officer posing as a hitman won't actually kill anyone for you but will still SAY he will, law enforcement websites don't give perpetrators any kind of child pornography at all, but still offer to do that very thing, in no uncertain terms. Thus, somebody who supplies personal information toward that end can be confidently assumed to KNOW the site offers illegal material, KNOW that he's about to pay for illegal material, and be under the impression that once he pays, he WILL receive illegal material. It has to be done this way in order to stand up in any kind of court. That's just the way things work.

Now, the rather unfortunate, unnamed, anonymous, and dubiously extant gentleman who was tagged at a "legitimate" porn site and got 35 years in prison for one photo of a 17-year-old in a provocative bikini pose (downloaded when such a thing was "legal") and now has to register as a violent sexual predator for the rest of his life may be a real victim of some kind of good-thing-gone-bad, but I find it highly unlikely that he ever really even lived, seeing as how the only things I can find when I try to cross-reference such stories are scare-tactic anecdotes on perpetrator group-hug sites. I certainly don't have to worry about becoming one of these "victims", because I lost my appetite for pornography of ANY kind many, many years ago.

Police are already all over Kazaa and other P2P sites. People trade volumes of child porn there. Pretty easy not to mistakenly download the material either, seeing as how it tends to be rather descriptively titled. Still, that's not where the real action is. P2P child porn has been traded and re-traded, with little or no way to backtrace the images.

Nowadays, porn is seriously traded online in small private groups, or "clubs". Many members of these clubs are producers, not just traders. In order to become a member of such a club, a prospect often is required to submit a certain amount of actual child pornography to the group. This is very effective at keeping the police out, because these guys - the serious traders - are quite aware that police are not allowed to SEND any child pornography, despite what so many seem to think. The only way the police can infiltrate these groups is by using the already-established account of a trusted group member. In order to do that, the police need to bust the group member and seize his computer. This has happened before, when the group member engages in some "unsafe" activities elsewhere on the web (for instance on P2P) and is caught. But it's rare, very rare.

Bottom line is this: child pornography producers invariably have child pornography. To find the producers, you need to search EVERYBODY you can find who has child pornography - there's really no other way it can possibly be done. Now, granted, not every single possessor of the stuff is a producer necessarily - but what then? Just let them off? I think not.
 
Hey, I appreciate your input, but I guess we all make a big mistake on who we target.

How do we find pedophiles who download the stuff? By setting up a website which convinces such a person that he is able to download some such material there, and waiting for him to take active, knowledgeable steps to facilitate such a transfer.
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When I used to visit the sites the perps use, I just watched and never said a word to any of them.
I learned a lot by being there, that was many years ago and it hurt to read the things they think.

Not one of them would get caught in a Government sting, they already know who or where to get what they want through networking.

A lot of the crap is made by those who frequent the site, and it does get out on the net.

My main point is this, the cops have to justify their huge budget by showing they are pro-active in dealing with abuse, statistically they are finding loads of child abusers, realistically they are not.

In this country alone 800 got a caution, that is 800 sex offenders, and the realistic figure would probably have really been close to a handful of "real sex offenders" who would go beyond fantasy.

A sex offender registry counts everybody the same, so the Government can quote statistics as a yardstick, the fall back is that the public really do think the cops are doing a great job by putting so many statistics to the Government.

On the other side of the coin, when they do find an abuser, vigilante action follows and causes social problems throughout society.

No wonder when some kids family read about just how many sex offenders were out to get their kids.
They need to spend the money on finding out who the abusers are, not by using statistics and turning everyone into vigilantes.

Most of the cases I have read about this year were about kids or adults coming forward to report it, I have seen very few cases of the police finding abusers through their own detection.

The best tool the cops could use is guys like us, who could better tell them how perps work.
Most of the kids are going to be terrified into staying silent,

ste
 
I am coming to this thread after a hiatus of a few days, but one thing I am reading here seems very important to me: the authorities are under pressure to produce the numbers. That can mean 1)an emphasis on numbers of busts and arrests and convictions, not on the real seriousness of the offense. It can also mean 2) a desperation to nail SOMEONE, anyone. We have seen it in criminal justice in so many other fields, like the Guilford bombing, where the guys who were locked up for years were all eventually found innocent. It also means 3) lock the guy up, then let him go. Never mind, we got to tick him off on a register of results.

It doesn't help the cause of keeping kids safe if it works out like this. I don't know enough to say it IS like this, but I see enough to worry me.

Larry
 
Larry and all,

I was thinking on this thread and I thought!
Why? Dont we all think about how Governments deceive us through figures that dont relate to hard facts.

I digress on the number of actual child abusers who get off lightly with their crime.
Then I see a life sentence for someone having material in their possession.

Its a bit like the buyer of drugs being sold the drug then getting a bigger sentence than the guy who was selling them in the first place.

Figures tell the public far more than the media would have you know in 'hard fact'.
Only the ones abused know the hard fact behind abuse and nobody else,

ste
 
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