In support of the supporters.

In support of the supporters.
L

Lloydy

Registrant
I've just read the thread started by Rayne, and I'm typing through a mist of tears.

I didn't want to get involved in that thread because it's so personal to supporters, but I felt I had to say something.

First, a confession. I know that I don't fully appreciate the strain of supporting and loving someone like me. I do take my wifes support and love for granted.
I don't do it deliberately, it's kinda "knowing that it's there" so I rely on it to a great extent and never take the time to reciprocate support.

I also still don't 'know' to a degree how to do it. If I buy flowers and be extra nice, am I being a bit condescending?
I do these kind of things, but there's always a doubt that I'm doing the right thing, there's a big insecurity still going on within me.

Also there's the feeling that because I've done some work, changed most of my dysfunctional behaviours, and become more open and honest etc, then those things show that I appreciate her support and love.
But the reality is that all my changes are just bringing me closer to being 'normal' ( which is something I still fight against ) so logically I should go the extra mile to show my appreciation.

I think that most guys actually are very appreciative and aware of the support we recieve, but we still have problems showing it.

Maybe someday I'll be 'perfectly normal' and able to be the romantic guy who shows his appreciation in the accepted ways.
Until then I'll be myself and do the best I can.

Dave ;)
 
Dave,

Thank you for your post. It's nice to see that a relationship CAN make it through such diffucult times.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I need the spoken, honest "I'm sorry" daily. No big discussions, no other words, just that. It reassures me that he is in check with his feelings about me, and knows that I still hurt because of his actions. My wounds are very fresh, so I'm not ready for gifts, or big gestures. Simple sincerety is the the best for me, even just a "thank you" when he knows that I'm having a trying time of it. I know what he means with out him having to say anything else.

I don't mean to, and would never undermine the struggles and pain that survivors are going through. But like I have said before, it's like being torn, living with two polar opposite emotions--the pain your partner has caused YOU by their actions, and the love you have for them and the want to make THEIR pain subside.

Don't give up on your partner, they're still there, for a reason.


"you can't know happiness, until you experience sorrow"
 
Dave

Buy those flowers, be extra nice and wherever and however you can, show that appreciation you feel.

Not just because she deserves it but because you are a smashing bloke and deserve the feel good feeling you'll get from her pleasure.

Lots of love

Tracy
 
Dave,

Maybe this is silly-- but have you asked her what you could do?

Personally I think actions speak louder than words (or flowers). I share your feeling:

because I've done some work, changed most of my dysfunctional behaviours, and become more open and honest etc, then those things show that I appreciate her support and love.
Click to expand...
but you know, some ladies like flowers.
 
Yeah, I'll get flowers.

Dave ;)
 
Dave,

Your tears are making my tears!! :-) It is so nice to read your words. I can't even BEGIN to imagine how tough and hard it is to be a victim of SA, that is why sometimes I even feel a little guilty for feeling the way I feel also.It is good to know how you feel because I know that you reflect the thoughts of many male survivors. It is hard being on this side of the coin too but we try our best to be strong to help those survivors in our lives.

I am sure your wife loves you all the more for your efforts
 
Rayve
thanks, and don't feel guilty about how you feel.

Whatever you feel is you making choices, thinking through hard decisions. And some days that must feel like another mountain to climb. And on the real bad days you might be carrying someone like me on your back !

Dave ;)
 
It's a great thing for a survivor to see threads and posts like this. Until I began reading and posting here in this forum more frequently I had no idea how badly my erratic and distant behavior must have been affecting my wife, and indeed, the whole family.

We have made a lot of progress I think, but to be honest, most of the work has been things I should have thought about previously, but just didn't.

This isn't an excuse, but sometimes I just can't SEE. I don't know of any other way to put it.

Much love,
Larry
 
"I...would never undermine the struggles and pain that survivors are going through. But like I have said before, it's like being torn, living with two polar opposite emotions--the pain your partner has caused YOU by their actions, and the love you have for them and the want to make THEIR pain subside.

Don't give up on your partner, they're still there, for a reason."

For partners of those survivors who are
truly and actively committed to recovery--and taking responsibility for their lives/conduct now--I say that for so long as you are able to honour your own needs, feelings and boundaries in the relationship, then yes, "don't give up." Indeed, I think that such relationships have a tremendous amount to offer in terms of growth, healing and personal empowerment for both parties.

On the other hand, if your "love" involves repeatedly tolerating/accomodating behaviours from your partner that cause you tremendous and on-going pain, and result in your compromising your own values, needs, etc, then at the very least I urge you to get some counselling for yourself.

In my case, I used to tell myself not to give up and chose to see the fact that my partner was "still there" as a clear indication of his trust in and love for me, despite some of his habits and behaviours. For over four years I did everything I knew how to show my commitment to and love for him, to show my faith in him, to "understand," be "supportive," to "help" him and so forth.

I did leave him on a few different occasions, telling myself I was "done," though deep down a part of me secretly hoped that "losing" me would result in his finally seeking help for his SA issues, addictions, etc. But each time I went back to him/took him back (usually on the basis of some promise of his to change his ways, and perhaps some token indications that he actually meant what he said) with ultimately, the same results.

In our case, I see now that much of the reason he was always "still there" is as much due to my own repeated enabling of him and dysfunctionally high level of tolerance for his crazy-making, sabotaging behaviours as anything. I was as much "mommy" as I was anything else. In other words, his desire to stay (and obvious reluctance to leave) was as much about trying to hold on to the reassurance and comfort/resources I represented for him--and to some degree, perhaps a public perception of him as a grown-up, settled down, "nice guy" family man--as anything. (He will be 45 in May.) Even when I was determined to do the "tough love" thing with him, my own resolve to that end never lasted long. It all just became so confusing for me that over time I lost all ability to put things into any real and concrete perspective. I was determined not to be an enabler, but looking back, I'm amazed to discover all the insidious little ways in which I'd become just that.

When he finally moved out (at my insistence) in November, he promptly moved in with a coke dealer/user. A few weeks later he lost his job, and his mother ended up giving him the money for the two month's worth of rent and bills he got behind in. Then two weeks ago he moved in with my one-time best friend and his younger brother (they're engaged), who live some 200 feet or so away from me. His own vehicle (which his mother gave him the money to buy a few years back but he has never maintained) has long since ceased to be roadworthy, but I see that he is now driving his brother's truck, while his own sits parked in front of their house. And so on, ad infinitum.

I have no doubt that he will be happy to live there for as long as he can (at least until some new "understanding," enabling wonderwoman, love interest turns up for him). There he is surrounded by people who will cushion him, however well-meaningly and/or subconsciously, from ever having to take full responsibility for himself and, in essence, allow him to carry on as he always has, never dealing with his SA stuff nor having to confront the full pain and truth/reality of his unresolved stuff. The point being, he'll "still be there" because it keeps him from really having to be with himself, if that makes sense?

Though I've not seen or spoken with him in a month, he remains the first thing on my mind when I awaken each morning, and the last thing on my mind as I fall asleep each night. I last heard from him (via email) a week ago, in which he said that while I 'seemed to be moving on' he "hadn't yet," but would agree to respect my wishes that he not try to communicate with me anymore, in person or by phone. We'll see.

I have cut off, at least for now, my relationship with my friend (his brother's fiance, they met through me) because I know that, with him living in her house now, it's simply not a connection I can handle in any healthy way at this time.

My relationship with my ex has left me mentally, spiritually and emotionally sick, a fact of which I am painfully aware. (Though I now suspect that I wasn't all that healthy to begin with, else why would I be attracted to/ interested in someone like him in the first place?) I have little doubt that were I to send any "still possible" signals his way, we'd be seeing each other again in no time. Were that to happen, the little girl in me would want to believe, as she's always hoped, that his wanting me back would be an indication of his undying love for me, but I can no longer afford to hang on to such hopes.

His return to me would be about him, not me. And my taking him back would be about my reluctance to deal with the fact that he is not the man I so desperately wanted to believe he was, but in fact, someone who isn't really able to love anyone, not even himself. His 'still being there' would not be about love, but about our perfectly fitting, respectively dysfunctional "needs" and about neither of us wanting to face the humiliation and pain of the truth. He is not in recovery, nor is there any indication that he's pursuing that at all. He's still running from it all. Me, I'm now looking for a counsellor and committed to getting MYSELF well, no matter how long it takes.

Anyway, I just had to get this off my chest. Again, if your (generic "your")survivor partner is actively seeking/in recovery, then I wish you all the best. I know it's a long and difficult journey to undertake, but the potential rewards strike me as well worth the effort for you both. But do be sure to stay honest with yourself. Believe me, the price of not honouring one's own needs and values is just way too high.

Stride
 
Post script:

"Though I now suspect that I wasn't all that healthy to begin with, else why would I be attracted to/ interested in someone like him in the first place?"

Please know that by this I do not mean to say that he is an evil, valueless or unlovable person, his isn't. I only mean that there were clear signs from the start that he was not someone who really had his act together or was a responsible, healthy, stable, dependable and conscientious adult, capable of
truly loving and/or being loved by anyone.

I simply find the fact that I chose to see only what I wanted to see, "overlooking" the glaring red flags that were there all along, a telling reality.
 
Hi stride,

Can I wish you the best anyway, even if your ex isn't actively seeking recovery? :)

It sounds like you are making great strides for yourself these days.

I know just what you mean by your statement "why would I be attracted to someone like him in the first place..." I think you explained it well by saying that each of you had dysfunctional needs which fit with the other's.

SAR
 
Hi SAR,

Thank you for your supportive well wishes. I appreciate them/you very much.

Sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm making any "strides" (progress) at all, beyond the fact that I've basically managed to go 4 weeks without allowing myself to get hooked into responding to his many calls, emails, etc...without, in effect, "falling off the wagon" of abstaining from having anything to do with him. And yeh, that in itself is a HUGE step forward for me.

Still, it can be hard to feel like I'm really making progress when it's still such a moment-by-moment struggle not to indulge in fantasies that there might yet be reason hope for a miracle. Just knowing I'm still vulnerable to doing that and to wasting even a moment's energy thinking about him (what he's doing, thinking, feeling, etc) instead of focussing on the only legitimate work before me--ME/MY OWN STUFF!--can feel pretty humiliating and discouraging. That, and the fact that I have found it necessary to cut myself off not only from someone who has been one of my closest friends for years now (his brother's fiance), but from almost everyone who's been part of my/our social circle over the past few years, can feel very limiting indeed.

Still, knowing that even just taking the resolute steps that I have and committing to examining my own issues/role in things is, while scary, self-affirming. I do feel very lonely and isolated right now, but continue to hold on to the hope that "this too shall pass."

Time to revisit the effects of my own childhood SA experiences and to deal with my own addictions--the one he represents for me first and foremost.

Hugs to you,


Stride
 
Stride,

I have also questioned myself also on " why would I be attracted to/ interested in someone like him in the first place?" I wish I knew. There are something I DO know though. Luckily, I haven't had a history of seeking out the "victim" type, trying to find someone to save. I have left relationships for much, much less. I have never been the kind of person that will tolerate being walked on. I'm emotionally healthy (some could argue!! ;) ). That is why I say that it's like being torn. I love this man, through the hurt, the healing and the confusion. That has been a constant. I'm not obsessed, I'm not dependant, and I have never compromised my morals for anyone. This is why I'm so torn. Anger vs Love, love is winning...I don't know why, it's the only thing about this that I know for sure, for myself, that I believe with no doubts. Not saying that it won't change. But right now it's my only truth in this screwed up mess.

I am in counseling, to learn how to deal with MY emotions as well as how to support my husband. There are people who are co-dependant, and enablers, and "fixers", and I think ultimately the combination in those relationships won't work with out help of counseling as well. It takes both parties being healthy/healing. Still, there are some that, for reasons we don't know, just love.

I don't mean to be defensive ( I hope I'm not ), I'm just as confused as the next person as to why I'm in this situation, and why I stay. Everyone is different as to how much they can tolerate, I just haven't reached that point yet. And hope I never have to face it. I'm not a martyr, I'm just doing what I FEEL is right for me. The choice you made was, I'm sure ,terribly painful. It takes a really brave person, with a lot of self respect to leave a person you love for your own benefit. I wish you only the best in YOUR healing.
 
It's impossible for me to disagree with Sride's point of view, even thouh my personal experiences are different right now.

But I see her point of view as being rational and her personal best interests because I've changed from someone who had a very limited and damaged way of looking at other peoples points of view to someone who can now appreciate and work with someone elses point of view.
And that's only happened because I've made the effort to change 'ME' from someone deeply, negatively, affected by may abuse to someone who's determined to fight my way through the crap and reach some kind of 'normality'.

Nochoice is right when she say's that she won't compromise her morals, or become obsessed and depandant.
Why should she? why should anyone make those kind of sacrifices and changes for someone else?
Well, I can see how people will, and often do, make major sacrificies for someone they love IF they feel the trade off is worth it, they get the love in return. But this is something that should be given and never expected.
If the trade is one sided, then how could anyone be expected to 'give, give, give' and get rock all in return?

Is it the romantic vision that the man you fell in love with is worth saving at all costs? And I don't mean that to sound patronizing.
But is there something that you saw initially that sparked that love that will endure, unchanged, through the huge upheaval of our possible healing?
If we change as dramatically as we both hope, will we still be the person you fell in love with?

Dave
 
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