Im sorry

Im sorry
D

Despair is the only Truth

Registrant
I dont think i wanted to say what i did, but ifeel what i feel and i have no one who will listen and no one who really seems to understand.

I feel as though i have hit a wall. I hate to think i have lost my grip on reality, but i feel as though i may be more than conventional therapy can handle. I don't understand why i don't heal, why no matter what i try that last piece of the puzzle always elludes me, in a very real and temporal sense.

I know i am a stranger on these boards once again do to my abscence, but i am desperately in need of something that feels REAL. Something that is meaningful, even if painful, in my life.

To this end, i am torn. My brother raped me when i was five, this i know. What i dont know is the whole truth, the circumstances surounding the rape. After i confronted him, things did not get any better. They gotworse actually. He apologized, cried, got into therapy, and, i am hoping, is going to write letters to everyone in my family telling them the truth about what he did. Im not sure what anyone in my family is going to do or say, everything has seemed to go completely bonkers in this world. I cant tell if "so what?" is a normal response when you tell people you have been abused anymore. (Not in so many words, but you get the idea)

So what it comes down to is this. I want to know the truth, and i am tired of pussyfooting around. I am sick of worrying about being afraid and fearing that i will never know or maybe i dont really want to know. There is a solid block in my mind, somthing i don't know how to reach, but i feel it prominently when i am competiting, moreso when i am trying to tap my creative potential. I feel it when i am tryingto grasp the nature of myself, when i try and remember the huge blocks in my memory. And, being a rational human being who believes in a hopefully ordered universe, i believe there is a reason, a reason set in corporal existance and meaningful not in the long run, not as part of the vast cycle of life, but something that is applicable to daily life. I don't know what this reason is, a chemical imbalance in the brain, a neural pathway that has been wired messily, a fundamental flaw in my nature that keeps me from percieving a stumbling block i keep hitting over and over, i don't know. But, i am begging to believe that it may have been the result of deliberate tampering.

Nobody puts much faith in conspiracy theories or paranoids, and nobody blames anyone else for doing so. But closing our eyes to these things does not change the fact that historicaly documented cases of conspiracy and attrocity are real. I remember things, from my childhood, sketchy and bizarre. I know there are huge gaps, entire pieces of childhood and even adolescense, gone, not from the gentle erosion of time, but seomthing else.

I have begun reading about ritual abuse, and it is a paranoid world that i am delving into. First, i will say that there are documented cases about mind-control, de-classified and open to the viewing public, i.e. the manchurian canidate and project monarch. Though the term mind-control is misleading, it is more like taking advantage of the minds mental processes under extreme duress, manipulating, demanding, suggesting, ect., but never, i believe, actual control.

The problem with a legitimate conspiracy is tht it has less credibility than a fake one. You can show people hard evidence, documentation, modes of operation, quote hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses, and still, you will be ignored. Because, i think, a legitiamte conspiracy can not exist without the publics apathetic acceptance.

The story starts during world war two. America is smuggling scientists out of germany to secure thier reasearch perfromed on the jews. Again, historical fact. Much of the medical knowledge gained in the last half century is the result of the inhumane experimentation on the jews during the holocaust. Among this research, rocket science, biological warfare, and what is dubbed, "mind control research."

Using pavlovian conditioning and dissiasociative response, it is thought possible to control a persons behavior using compartmentalization and hypnotic "triggers". This is not stage hypnosis. This is being strapped to a table and told there are five lights on the cieling when you know there are only four. Then you are tortured until you SAY there are five lights. Eventually, you are turtured until you actually BELIEVE there are five lights. Nobody wants to believe this sort of thing is possible, because it touches at the very heart of free will, and our understanding of what it is.

I am off topic, i apologize. As these war criminals left germany, a form of mysticism spread with the teaching of these mind control techniques, cabala. It was more of a cover than any real adherance to religion, some aspects im sure would appeal to men who worship power, but would be paid lip service at best. Using this religion, these men supposedly spread cmall cults throughout isolated rural communities, using familial indoctrination, child abuse, and incest, as well as torture, humilation, and the aforementioned techniques. They did this, as so many men do, not for any goal or vengence, but for the essence of having the power to commit attrocity, to take pleasure in inflicting pain on others.

These cults have spread, it is said, throughout the world. I am afraid now, because i don't think i can go on believing that the world is a safe and secure place, that there are things in the world that exist like this, and that they affect us more than we are willing to know.

As for my history, i remember strange things. Getting drugged for an EEG. Finding a diassembled asault rifle in my mothers closet when she had a guest over i never saw again. Being lead through a large battery of tests, evaluations, incredibly fuzzy memories surounding the schools i attended during elementary. Not fuzzy as in half remembered, fuzzy as in not knowing the names of the schools, being spanked in front of an entire classroom on my birthday. One for each year, litarally, birthday spankings. I do not remember anyone else in my second grade class going through that ordeal. I remeber my moms boyfriends, and guess what? All of them: ex-vietnam veterans, and one surveyer who she claimed used to work in the CIA. Another established, sad fact, vietnam is a major distrubuter of herion into the united states, through disgruntled vietnam veterans. Again, something i wouldn't blame you for not believing. But, check out your local methodone clinics. This is what they give your lifers, a subtitute for herion that is an addiction in and of itself. There are a disproportianate number of vietnam veterans who got hooked on junk during the war.

Another tangent, sorry. The point: my mother and father, both herion addicts. My early childhood is like a broken slide projector, where all the slides get mixed up, everything is shot in the wrong order and you see clips that arent supposed to be there at all. There are many things, that come and go, that contribute to me thinking that i must keep an open mind, that a tangeble explaination to feeling pain disproportianate to what i remember exists.

So, i guess i am saying i need you here to bear witness to the choice i have to make in understanding what has happened to me. I am making a commitment to finding out the truth, and i am afraid. But if there are evils in the world that we fear so much that we can not contemplate thier existance comfortably, all the more reason to confront those demons, to drive them back, to show the world that compassion on a scale of the holocaust is possible. This sounds like a bad anology, but if you think about it, what events in human history can compare to attrocity? Selective memory i guess. But i believe it is possible for this world to really change. And that includes these sorts of things, the things nobody talks about and everybody is afraid of.

The truth, unfortunetely, is subjective. I have seen to many multiples with DID, or dissaciocastive identity disorder, who have completely given into parnoia and fear, to the point where they have lost all credibility, even to those with open minds and compassion in thier hearts. On the other is complete denial, the false memory syndrome foundation run by and for pedophiles and apologists. So i will keep my eyes open, my heart unburdened, and carry within me the belief in knowledge and compassion as one and the same, that the essential truth that is the self is eternal and, if not invincible, certainly undeniable to the whole of the universe. Thank you for listening to me, i hope thier is someone among you whom i can count on for support and understanding. You HAVE helped me, but i think it is time i took this part of my healing in my own hands, and stopped flinging myself at others feet for answers to my own deliemas.

Thank you, friends.
 
Hello Despair!

I am saddened to see the depth of your pain over the actions of your brother. You know that you were raped. I would not think it necessary, nor perhaps even wise, to look for more knowledge about that.

I think you are an amzing person to have confronted your brother. He apparently is sad that he did this to you. But, it is not something that can be undone. He must care for you a great deal to have admitted his crime and to now be in therapy.

It is reasonable to hope. Hope is a true power. Keep growing your power by growing in the hope for a much better future.

Bob
 
The story starts during world war two. America is smuggling scientists out of germany to secure thier reasearch perfromed on the jews. Again, historical fact. Much of the medical knowledge gained in the last half century is the result of the inhumane experimentation on the jews during the holocaust. Among this research, rocket science, biological warfare, and what is dubbed, "mind control research."
__________________________________________________

Despair,

What have you been reading besides stuff about ritual abuse (guaranteed to give you nightmares)?

The U.S. did not "smuggle" in German scientists after WWII. Most of them were involved in rocket science, most famously Dr. Werner von Braun, and they came legitimately. If there was any smuggling, it had to do with keeping the scientists out of Soviet hands. I'm not certain what you mean about these scientists having used Jews in their research. Jewish slave labor could have been used in the manufacture of the V-1 and V-2 rockets, but if any of these scientists performed experiments upon Jewish subjects it was their dirty secret which would have been found out, and they would have been deported for trial either in Israel or their own country. (The U.S. Justice Department has an office devoted to ferreting out Nazi's who emigrated to the U.S. after WWII.) Most recently (1980's) this happened to John Demjanuk, a Cleveland, Ohio area retired auto worker, who was alleged to be certain particularly cruel Ukrainian guard at I think Auschwitz. Demjanuk was tried in Israel and found not to be the person he was alleged to be. Thereafter, the U.S. government moved to have him deported, as an illegal immigrant, to Ukraine. I don't know whether that was successful or not. The only person I know of who eluded the Justice Department was Paul de Man, the Belgian deconstructionist literary critic and academic, who committed suicide after a graduate student exposed him as the writer of WWII era anti-Semitic propaganda. This all happened during the '80s and was a major scandal in the Harvard, Yale, etc. literature departments. De Man had published a lot of work as an academic in the U.S. None of it is read or cited anymore.

I would really like to know exactly what you are talking about. A lot of Jews (especially twins) were tortured in bogus medical experiments. No one uses any of that material. The only torture/experiments that took place which came up with useful information involved research concerning drowning. According to my physician father-in-law no one uses the results of that research because of the inhuman means by which it was obtained. As far as mind control research is concerned, I wonder if you are referring to brainwashing? I haven't heard of the Germans using brainwashing techniques on Jewish death camp inmates or on POWs. The North Koreans and the North Vietnamese brainwashed American POWs, but brainwashing doesn't last. Once the prisoner is released and has had some physical and mental recovery time, his cognative powers return to normal. The North Koreans were unable to turn American POWs into an army of zombies.
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Using pavlovian conditioning and dissiasociative response, it is thought possible to control a persons behavior using compartmentalization and hypnotic "triggers". This is not stage hypnosis. This is being strapped to a table and told there are five lights on the cieling when you know there are only four. Then you are tortured until you SAY there are five lights. Eventually, you are turtured until you actually BELIEVE there are five lights.
__________________________________________________

This sounds like pre-KGB interrogation techniques used during the Stalin era, which began sometime in the '20's and ended with Stalin's death in March 1953. Although, Stalin's thugs probably didn't do anything more "scientific" than deprive an arrestee of sleep for days or weeks on end or make him/her stand in water up to his/her ankles, after first beating him/her within an inch of his/her life. I say pre-KGB because this department of the Soviet government underwent many name changes over the years, e.g. MKGB, MGB, etc. It wasn't called the KGB until after Stalin died. Interrogators typically got the arrested to sign confessions to absolutely anything they wanted. No one has free will while under "intense interrogation," the U.S. euphemism for near torture. Intense interrogative techniques are not used inside this country's borders. Instead, the U.S. uses allies like Jordan and Pakistan, where this sort of thing is legal, for intense interrogation.

__________________________________________________
As these war criminals left germany, a form of mysticism spread with the teaching of these mind control techniques, cabala. It was more of a cover than any real adherance to religion, some aspects im sure would appeal to men who worship power, but would be paid lip service at best. Using this religion, these men supposedly spread cmall cults throughout isolated rural communities, using familial indoctrination, child abuse, and incest, as well as torture, humilation, and the aforementioned techniques. They did this, as so many men do, not for any goal or vengence, but for the essence of having the power to commit attrocity, to take pleasure in inflicting pain on others.

These cults have spread, it is said, throughout the world. I am afraid now, because i don't think i can go on believing that the world is a safe and secure place, that there are things in the world that exist like this, and that they affect us more than we are willing to know.
__________________________________________________

Despair,

Whatever you have been reading is a bunch of paranoid delusional bunk. The Kabbalah is the mystical part of Judaism. It is extremely ancient, dating back to at least the time the Biblical book of Ezekiel was written and probably before. It has nothing to do with mind control and everything to do with God, the Jewish people, and ethical living. It has nothing to do with non-Jews. There has never been any conspiracy to spread some cult of perversion into the rural areas of the U.S. or anywhere else in the world. There is no conspiracy to indoctrinate the minds of anyone; Kabbalah does not involve child abuse or any other kind of abuse, incest, humiliation, torture or anything of that nature. I suspect you have been visiting anti-Semitic websites or reading wacked out Aryans-only literature. Beware, Despair, that kind of thing will only bring you down, down, down. All of it is born out of ignorance and hatred, and it is all lies. Here are some books you can get from the library which will improve your knowledge of history. The truth is far more interesting than the lies you have been reading:

Gulag, a History , by Anne Applebaum. New York: Doubleday, 2003.

Stalin's Last Crime, the Plot Against the Jewish Doctors 1948-1953 , by Jonathan Brent and Vladimir P. Naumov. New York: Harper Collins, 2003.

The War Against the Jews 1933-1945 , by Lucy S. Dawidowicz. Tenth Anniversary ed. New York: Bantam, 1986.

I wish you many blessings and pray that despair soon releases its hold on you.

Mary
 
Mary:
Thank you for a knowledgable and sensitively written post. You are correct that there are a lot of hatred-based websites out there which purport to have the "truth". Unfortunately, they pull in many people who accept what is written without any critical thinking or checking the facts.

I would further add that stories about ritual abuse and conspiracies have not been borne out in research or investigations. Take such stories with a dose of healthy skepticism.

Ken
 
I understand your skepticism. But most of us here, not many can prove what happened to them either. How can literally hundreds of people claim to have all suffered similiar experiances, been diagnosed and treated in a similiar manner, and still be dismissed?

If I am entirely resonposible for my own lot in life, then so be it. I can't overcome what feels like barriers to my well-being and sense of belonging in the world and society. If this is my weakness, if it is because of my flaws, then i suppose i could accept my fate.

It doesnt feel like it is me. I want to KNOW. You can't understand how hard that is, or maybe you can, but my life can not move until i have overcome this THING inside me. I dont understand why i can't FEEL.

Psychologist have told me my whole life that i am mistaken in my peceptions, that in some round about way i create my own stigma. If this is true, then why have i not been able to find any root belief to confront? Why have i not been able to adopt a different view of myself and my world? It is not for lack of trying.

I am angry at society, for many things. I believe that society as a whole should be held accountable for what it does AS a whole. I don't know how to describe it, but I feel like civilization is SICK, like it is a mistake in the way we think and act. That the majority of evil in this world comes from the way so called "Civilized" peoples seek to enslave the world around them.

Why must i prove a possibility that i feel bears further investigation? Brainwashing exists. Our research into the subject is limited by our inability to accurately study clandestine behavior. It is not unfeasable that in an era where technolgy was being revolutionized at an astounding pace, where anything was thought possible, that governments would attempt to study if brain-washing was afeasable means of controling a persons actions, if not actual thought processes.

Have you never heard holocaust survivor accounts of the americans defeating germany? Initially, there WAS denial, they did, in a sense, cover it up, by suppressing thier objective perceptions and rationalizing what they had seen. It was not until the truth could not be denied that it was finally acknowledged. We tend to think of WW 2 as a "good" war, filled with ordinary joes doing the world a favor. But "Saving Private Ryan", and "Band of Brothers" are not reality. History channel documentories are not reality. We commited our share of attrocity.

Imagine a report comes in to the OSS, (the military precurser to the CIA) explaining that subliminal control of a mans actions is possible, that it has been documented, it can work. It is feasable to assume that a man in a position of power within the military would believe that it would be in his orginizations and personal best interest not to divulge this information to the public.

I know it doesnt work the way people think it does, that brainwashing is not guys in black vans using microwave beams to turn people into zombies. But it does work on some level, and it is real. Does our world look as if it is the result of a kind and benevolent leadership, a moral and just populace?

I just don't understand how this can still be my failure alone, that i am the one who has to bear the weight of never being able to acheive, that everyone simotaniously tells me that i have value but am not valued. It comes down to believing that either i am not worthy of good things, the universe is without meaning, it is a mistake in perceptions that can be corrected, or unknown but mutable circumstances are contributing to my fate. If there is any truth to the first two, then honestly, who cares what happens in this life?

If it is the third, i have seemingly exhausted my resources, i have tried my hardest to come to terms and accept what has happened to me, to no avail. I went to group and listened to everyone bitch and tried sharing what i couldn't feel or remember, and i left feeling more bitter and frustratedthan when i began. Twice a week i would drag myself of the floor, drive an hour away to pomona as my disbilty slowly put me closer and closer into the hole.

For what? I have been to so many fucking therapists, I have seen so many people come and go in my life, and the only thing i can honestly say about any of them is that nobody ever took a chance on me, nobody ever took it upon themselves to try and help me in a meaningful way. 9 therapists, since i was six years old. I am just seething right now, how little power i have over my life. My family will soon know the truth about everything i can remember for certain, my brother laid himself bear, all the self loathing and pain that drove him to do what he did, and i dont know what further i have left to feel or do towards coming to terms with being raped as a child. I have felt anger, forgiveness, loss, denial, i have copped out and come bak so many times before i confronted him that i just can't understand how any of this could possibly be affecting me anymore. I have treated the sysmtoms and the disease. I have tried compassion, understanding, self-discipline, positve affirmation, meditation, acceptance. I have tried to apply for a job, make new friends, develop hobbies, colledge, self-education, i have tried developing skills, understanding and establishing relationships with parts of my family i felt were secure. Nothing ever changes, i always end up right back where i started from, the same problem i have always had,
of not being able to finish what i start, of not being able to overcome an almost foriegn sense of unworthiness, self-loathing, and helplessness.

Which leads back to the the first two. If all attemps to change or accept my fate are futile, then life as a whole either has no meaning, or mine specificly, has no meaning. I don't believe that.

The only thing that makes any sense is trying to find some external factor that can be changed. Coupled with all the missing pieces and lack of understanding about my life, it does not seem unfeasable that there is some reason outside myself that has contributed to the state i am in now.

My family does not fit profile. I have found desks with hidden compartments. I have found an M-16, dissasembled and lying in a bag in my mothers closet. Articles about massive cocaine busts in shoe boxes filled with old pictures. My father was a career criminal, my mothers boyfriends have all since had military connections, to either vietnam or the CIA, and I believe they have all been herion junkies, as well as alchoholics. My mother served six months in jail, left, supposedly quit herion and became a surveyor, yet surounded herself with verbally and emotionally abusive men who were junkies themselves, and contiunes to drink compulsively.

My brother once told me how his stepfather threw him out a plate-glass window, how he witnessed a friend he was riding with leave the car they were in and stab someone to death, how he would use methamphetimines to the point were he lost touch with reality, huddling in a corner for hours on end. My uncle Dan, on my fathers side had addictions to cocaine and gambling, is living far beyond his means and working seventy hours a week, estranging his wife and daughter. I think he is still an addict. My uncle Paul, also on my dads side, was murdered, shot in the head by a jamican for reasons i can't seem to understand. At the trial, the suspect said the whole thing was a farce, he accused the prosecuter of being curropt. My dad always hinted at connections to orginized crime.

Then there is all this wierdness, half-remembered, hazy stuf that makes no sense. My mothers friend patty braying loudly at a BBQ during my moms old neighboorhood reunion, to a friend, something to the effect of, "Is your mother still giving you enemas?" then laughing. The woman she told this to looked mortified, it was not a joke. Always being slplit when asked my favorite color and number, red and black, 7 & 8, the feeling is strange. Massages from and towards my mother, without her top on, an alchoholic fourth grade teacher who threw a student over a desk, yelled loudly, told his students he didn't make threats, he made promises. And guess who was teachers pet at the time? Guess who doesn't remember any of it? The strange coinicidence that two years later the school was shut down, despite protests. Being told my second older brother jimmy ODed on herion and had to be rushed to the hospital, that i was there to witness it and yet i dont remember any of it.

Then there is me personally. Shaking with spinal convusions, constantly cold, even in warm weather, zoning out for hours on end, drooling, insomnia due to an intense fear of going to sleep, compulsive sexual fantasies relating to being enslaved through coercion and humilation, a statement without leading under hypnosis that i was sexually abused at teh age of three, yet refused to remember, saying it was too bad. All i could remember was that it was wet, and cold. Listenign to horrendous accounts of abuse similiar to what i do remeber without flinching, then reading three accounts of ritualistic abuse and crying every time. Crying when i hear peoples accounts of being tortured or living through the holocaust. Entire blocks of memory, almost completely blank.

My mother is extremely narcissistic, so is my father. Both seem incapable of understanding the difference between right and wrong, if not literal sociopaths, certainly able to create a rationalization or justification for anything they have ever done. My mother also seems to have sexually abused me, though this too, is foggy. Considering the amount of neglect and complete lack of reciprication of affection in my life, it is easy for me to believe my father and mother were quite capable of using me to fufill thier own ends.

I dont think it is makes sense to live in fear of those with power, but niether does it make sense to beieve that your ignorence alleviates your responsibility in making an objective study of harsh realities. Do you know what frightens me the most? The refusal to humour those who speak about ritual abuse. Not the refusal to believe, the refusal to even consider. It is a violent, knee-jerk reaction, an instant dismissal of a possiblility your mind doesn't want to consider.

Brainwashing does not last on adult canidates who are released into the public and not subjected to further indoctrination. This much is probably true. But you can not say the same for someone tortured and conditioned, as a very small child, by thier parental figures, until an adult age, on a continous basis. Nor does it apply in a cult setting, where the opportunity for reindoctrination is always present. Hypnotic triggers are real, though there is some debate as to whether you can force someone to do something against thier will under hypnosis. But you ARE more suggestable, and we have not formulated a scientifc inquiry into how effectivly torture can be used in conjuction with hynotherapy and altered brain states.

Even if no ritual abse took place, something might have happened, something so bad that i have not allowed myself the option of actualy contemplating something that bad even COULD happen, blocking it out even as a possibility. If openeing my mind to the possibility that something like this might have happened to me gives me hope that something can be done, that i will remember, then i think it is worth looking into.

I will see what happens this next month, maybe i will start posting again. I hope something comes up, because i just cant live like this anymore, i can't keep fighting if i dont have anything left to fight for. I want to find love and meaning, to live life to its potential. It is not worth living in misery and poverty, it is pointless to try and find respect and acceptance when I am faced with such horrible social stigmas. I am so sick of living. It is so unfair, i just dont know what to do other than lye around on the floor. I have no money, no respect, no love.

If there is anythign worth living for, i think it better make itself known.
 
Perhaps it is bunk, by the way. I am just saying that i think that something else happened to me, something along those lines. That, or i am just not strong enough to overcome what is right in front of my face.

I made a mistake, it was a curroption of the original book that i believe was referred to. It was only important insomuch as providing the origin of these cults in america. The point is that fringe religious beliefs supposedly got mixed in with secular brainwashing techniques, which are already somewhat enmeshed. I intend to do more research, but there are many intelligent and repectable people, highly educated, prominent members of the community, who believe in some connection between the numerous accounts of ritual abuse.

I sort of doubt that there is a huge conspiracy, humanity seems more a tragic comedy. But i do believe that orginized, sytematic, brainwashing techniques have been developed by many civilized nations, and can be used to control certain aspect of a persons behavior. Even police and federal agents use these techniques to force confessions out of people, sleep deprevation, negative and positive reinforcement, ect.

What i find interesting is that it is so easy to believe that russia was capable of commiting these attrocities, but that again, we refer to America as the "good guys", utpoian and innocent of any wrongdoing as a whole.
 
I have been unfortunate enough to stumble upon some of the darkest places in human existance, and have been willing to take a glimpse at things even worse. And even there, where we are at our darkest and most sinister, the light shines all the more brightly in contrast.

--Posted by Broken, 9/20/2002
Click to expand...
My friend.

The light still shines. You have been looking too long at the dark places, hoping for an answer, searching for a reason.

There may be none. If there are, you may never find find them. We do not have to dot every 'i' and cross every 't'. Don't waste any more time trying to remember, trying to rationalize, trying to justify. (Read my signature line below.)

What happened to you, to me, to so many of us, as children twisted us all up, but it is not permanent.

We are not machines, destined to re-run the same programs over and over.

We are not children inventing realities and reasons to explain the unexplainable or the unknown.

Children can reason but how often are their conclusions correct or even plausible?

When I was a boy, I was wicked smart, but I believed that you could not put out a fire with hot water.

More to the point, when I was a boy I thought I was special and superior because I knew how good oral sex felt.

We are men now, and we know what is good and right and true about us and about the world. We have experience and knowledge and desire. We choose now. What we do, what we say, what we want.

Stop looking backward, into the dark and dirt. You know what you want, and you're a smart guy, you can make a plan and you can get it.

You want love; Give love. Give it to yourself first, you deserve it. It will overflow you and spill onto others, bringing you respect, admiration, and love in return. Trust me on this.

You already have a great deal of my respect. I remember many more of your posts, not just the one I quoted above. I have several of them saved on my computer. I hope this means something to you. Your words mean something to me.

The light is still there, just face in that direction for a while. It's a great place to be. And hey, it's where the money is, another thing you want (and need).

And once last thing, I'm not sure what social stigmas you're referring to, but fuck'em.

If you can, get away and stay away from whoever is making you feel stigmatized. If you can't, just hold your head high.

You've done nothing wrong and aren't damaged goods. Don't let anyone make you think you are.

Donald

And don't stay away for a month! Talk to us.
 
Broken
what the hell can I add to Don's post ?

Nothing, I agree with Don. We divert our energy away from helping the most important person in the whole world - ourself - and start putting the whole world to rights.

I think that Don has been the angry young man that I was, and I think you might be.
I'm not taking ANYTHING away from your ideals, hopes and fears. We need them, and to have high ideals such as you have is admirable.

But I believe that the most effective way of using those ideals to their best advantage is by making yourself strong enough to act on those ideals.
And to become strong, we need to deal with OUR personal abuse.

Dave
 
I dont think you understand. The pain is not getting any better. My life, is not getting any better. I spent two years trying to do exactely what you said, to let go, and it isnt working. You know, my name, that i have chosen here, i dont htink it is really fitting for me. I always seem to come back somehow.

But i think the real despair is in the curroption of the healing process. Despair is looking across at a therapist who has nothing invested in your well being, who claims to make a study of the human mind then quotes innate vs. contioned response, biochemstry, decribes symptoms and observations of mental ilness yet can not accurately tell you what it is, can not grasp the gestalt of a particular form of thinking or feeling. Despair is searching for a support group for three months and winding up in womens shelter with two other guys who are afraid to show up. Its watching a forum like this go under due to irresponsible, incompetent fiscal management and expectations.

You think im making shit up? You think i didnt watch my mother and father cook herion in front of my eyes? That i never hid behind a building as my mother smiled at me, telling me to be quiet because she spotted a police car with its lights blaring? I didnt say i was ritually abused. I said I bear symptoms of someone who has been. Maybe its a fopah, but some trauma is more extreme than others. I never said what others suffered through meant any more or less than anyone else, just that my symptoms are more severe, that i need better help than i can afford.

But jeesus, just let it go? If i could i would, believe me. This sounds exactely like what we have been told our whole lives. That doesnt sound like facing up to the pain, it sounds like running away. I never did anything to hold onto the pain before now, i dont think i have started yet. I dont like the implication that we should hide, that becasue we are in civil society we lose our right to bear our feelings in the way we act and the things we say. It is not right that our friends and family have been indoctrinated to isolate and avoid us when we are in pain.

tell me, in most books you read, it says things like, respect yourself, love yourself, and others will respect and love you. But if you think about some of the things that are not said, if you read between the lines, it is impled that if others do not respect and do not love you, you will not love or respect yourself. The truth is, you can speak out and still be a kept secret, because when you desire the love and respect that you are entitled to from the community, yet represent something they hate and fear, you will be ignored. The majority of us will go through our lives, and this major piece of ourselves will forever be ignored, a footnote in our lives to those who care about us. Why? Why should we be forced into dealing with our abuse on our off hours? Why do those who care about us stand there gibbering about how afraid and confused THEY are, instead of embracing us in our time of need?

Do our cummunities rally with love and support for children who have been molested, or do they congregate in fear, guilt, and hatred, seeking to punish, ignore, to sweep the whole thing under thier carpet and go back to pretending like they are unaware?

It is wrong to say, "Screw it, im going to get on with life," when it is still a monkey on your back. Your damn right im still angry! Im angry because I keep losing the nerve to succeed! I am angry because it wont let ME go, not the other way around. I dont care if i am in pain every once in a while, even really harsh pain, so long as i have a life waiting for me when i come out of it. So long as it is not all the time.

If your all such freaking experts on letting it go, then give me a fucking hint. I liked the idea about isolation, but guess what? You need a tent, food, supplies, money to pay national park tolls, gas money, social skills and faith that you wont be killed by a beesting.

Nobody wants me around with all the pain im in, nobody can afford to care about someone who is hurting, unless they hurt just as bad.

I guess i know its not as hopeless as all that, but the harder i try to change, to succeed, the more spectacularly i fail. And when i dont try, nothing gets better, I just start rotting, All meaning in my life falls away and im am just waiting to die.

Everyone talks about doing things like moving away, seeing the world, taking risks. Everytime i take a risk my life is more aimless than it was before, every chance i take backfires, betrayed by my own expectations.

If looking into the possibility that there is somethign more that can be done is something to hang onto, i dont think it is right for you to dismiss my reasoning out of hand, especially considering that i am approaching it from as deteached a perspective as i can manage. It doesnt matter what you believe, ritual abuse does exist in some forms. And the truth is, you probably know close to nothing about it, certainly no more than me, unless you have done some research of your own.

I cant explain to you the memory gaps, the half crazy walks in the dead of the night, the constant feeling like someone is screwing with your reality. I cant explain the white flashes, migraine headaches, not being able to tell one day from the next, to the point i lose track not of the date or day, the friggen month. Waking up some mornings and not remembering yesterday, confusing it with the day before, unable to recall what i did with most of the day.

Even with what i remember about my brother, it seemed like a footnote, like it was just a little thing i remember in comparison with what i dont. It felt like a final betrayal of its kind, not the first. Tell me why, if all this is complete bunk, i am shaking convulsively right now?

What you dont seem to understand is that i cant let it go, no matter what i do or dont do. i cant bury it anymore, and it feels like it is trying to surface, but cant or wont, like something is in the way.

So why dont you tell me this one last thing, while im sitting here, trying to calm my nerves and not fog out. Tell me you dont want ritual abuse, child pronography, and brainwashing to be the paranoid ramblings of a delusional fool. I will accept the possibility, (and do, with or without you) that this is a dead end created by my frustrations, if you accept the possibility that it could have happened to me, and that it does bare a more immediate concern and impact on my life than you care to admit. Argue your point, but dont dismiss mine.
 
Actually, im sorry i sounded sarcastic about isolation, it does seem like a good idea. In fact, it is somethign i have been contemplating for a long time. It is the strength to go out and do it that eludes me.

Maybe you could help me out with some information? Im more than a little ignorent about that sort of thing, but i have always wanted to try. Thanks.
 
I wonder if it is a common theme for more than a few of us to overcomplicate matters. I know I do this frequently. Not that what has been done to us and the aftermath need to be more complicated than they already are. But reading these very, very long posts seems to get away from the core subject which is that "Truth" can't seem to get past a certain point, despite efforts to the contrary for two+ years now. You state near the end of your last post that you can't seem to get past what happened to you, that it won't go away (I'm paraphrasing). Maybe you've set your expectations too high. For the simple fact of the matter is, it will not go away, ever. As true as it is that each of us was born, it is true that this happened to us. It is a historical fact. What we do with that fact can change how we react to it, but nothing will ever change history. If you feel you've reached a roadblock (and we all do or will) then you need to find a way around that roadblock. If nothing you have tried so far has made any difference, it's time to try something new. We might all have to do this repeatedly until we find what works. I've been to numerous therapists, counselors, etc. and none have ever been able to properly focus on what I need, despite my spelling it out for each of them. So I've been discouraged and stunted in my growth as a result. But it all comes back to the surface even though I think I can go back to living life the way it was. No more. That (for various reasons) is no longer possible. I am faced with circumstances that will no longer allow me to bury my feelings, emotions, memories. Though that felt like a safer place, at least from where I stand now, I know that it is not the best place and that no changes are being made there. If something is getting in the way of this all coming to the surface, find out what it is. I'm guessing it might be fear of change, of confronting the real, I mean real, feelings that are part of the whole package. My message is, keep trying. There has to be an answer for you and me and everyone else who tries to find it. Believe that and in yourself. Persevere, you know deep inside that you can, or else you would not be here trying again to find the elusive answers.
Peace...I mean it.
 
Despair I can see your pain in your latest post.

What you dont seem to understand is that i cant let it go, no matter what i do or dont do. i cant bury it anymore, and it feels like it is trying to surface, but cant or wont, like something is in the way.
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No Despair you can't bury it.

I tried for 40 years even though I remember every god-damned thing that happened including my time as a male whore. What I never did was TAKE THE EFFEN SHIT OUT. LOOK AT IT. UNDERSTAND IT AND THEN RECOGNIZE WHAT IT DID TO ME. THEN REALIZE THAT NOT ANY PART OF IT WAS MY FAULT. THEN I STOPPED DIRECTING THE ANGER INWARD AND WHERE IT BELONGED. Then I forgave myself for blaming myself, for piling it higher and deeper on myself, for the shame I felt, and for the fear I felt lest someone know about my past.

I thought that I could put it all in a little box and bury it. Didn't happen. It influenced every part of my life from 16 onwards and I am 62 now.

Hope this helps. If you want to PM me it is ok
 
Despair-

I agree it is essential to be self determining-
But I completely give my support to you on this post and to future posts. I will bear witness for as long as you are there writing - It is something only strangers would do for me - and in this arena
it is safe!

Blessings
duncan
 
I must be very ignorant. I can not know for certain of how I should feel of your posts. Part of me feels that I must be wrong to wish to get past this. I will not forget it, I will not ignore it. But it is my choice to get past it, and to do that, I feel I must find some way to take away the power of it on me, the weight it puts on me. I also feel guilty, as my life seems to not been so bad, and maybe I should just shut up, and not complain of things. And then I feel angry some, because another thing I should have right to do, I feel it is gone. I guess I am too ignorant to respond right to your post. I am sorry.

leosha
 
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