Im Not Gay!!!

Im Not Gay!!!
H

Hanging On

Registrant
Hello everyone,

I am new to this group (of course) From reading all of your posts I feel that I have finally found a forum in which I can express some of my feelings without the fear of rejection or shame. I commend all who have come before me for the courage you have to share your stories. I have been reading for a while and I feel like I am finally at a point that I can write myself. I have read many books and tried to research the sexual identity confusion associated with being an SA. Ever since my abuse at age 10 I have been attracted to men. I have not undergone therapy but I do link my obsession with the male body to the abuse that I encountered as a child. I had an almost completely absent father and then a male relative abused me at age 10. I wanted so much to be loved by another male figure, not sexually, just to be loved, to have the male bonding that fathers and sons seemed to have. I thought that he WAS loving me but later I realized that he was only using me. I have felt terrible about myself since that awful time in my life. One thing that I keep getting frustrated at is when I am trying to work on my sexual identity confusion and then hearing GAY men say that I am just not accepting my true sexual identity. This is just as traumatic as someone maybe saying that the abuse was not abuse if I enjoyed it. (at some level I think many of us did) Am I making any sense? I know I am just talking off the cuff and writing as fast as I can. If someone can help me to find a better way to say this I would appreciate it. Also, I am wondering if anyone else has faced this particular issue. Glad to be here God bless you all
 
Please dont misunderstand, Im not trying to put anyone down, I am just trying to figure out how to best handle this issue. God Bless
 
Hi Hanging On,

It's good to hear from you. I'm glad that you found us.

I can relate to some of what you said. I have felt such intense shame related to my sexual self, that I found it very hard to relate, even to one of my closest friends (who is lesbian) that I have some feelings I don't understand toward some men. I have been (and continue to be) very careful about how I say it, because I can't deal with thinking of myself as homosexual (though I don't have a problem with others being gay).

I was drawn to your post, due to (and this isn't a knock against you; if anything it projected my own feelings) the defensive nature of the declaration "I'm Not Gay!!!"

My friend, through the course of her own coming-out phase, has had to wrestle with acceptance of herself. It is her view that EVERYONE is at least Bi, but most people simply can't admit it.

She wants me to feel comfortable enough to explore the side of me I've denied, but these discussions leave me feeling awkward and unsettled. As it was, when I came out about the abuse, all those long months ago, I agonized over a phrase in my head, that I had to vocalize, or I wouldn't find peace: "I'm gay." It was so important for me to declare that, and yet, I have little idea where that phrase came from, since my sexual interest has always been toward females. When I meet new people, and it's a woman I get along with, I get the warm fuzzies of a crush. Not so with cool guys I meet.

So, yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Sexual identity is a funky thing. I myself have always identified myself as heterosexual, but I crossdress. In the course of finding crossdressing porn, I have read more and more about oral and anal sex with men. It is less offensive than it used to be. To be more truthful, I find it more enjoyable than I used to.

Imagine my confusion, and compounded shame. I guess you don't have to.

So, welcome Hanging On! You're certainly not alone, and any experiences you feel comfortable enough to share will be useful to someone here; I guarantee that (even if they don't post a reply). I wish you peace and healing.

We're in this together.

Jeremy
 
Hi there Hanging On...

I share this too common situation with you. Judging from a lot of the posts, this occurs in a lot of boys/men when they have been abused. The confusion about the feelings and emotions involved, trying to separate the pleasurable aspects from the terrifying aspects was too incomprehensible for me as a 12 year old. Because I became more and more attracted to men and acted on it at times, I finally sought help in therapy. I would get depressed, not take very good care of myself, and spiral down and do something inherently dangerous. I consider myself to be hetero but I've had sexual experiences with men, most of the times it seemed that I was on autopilot. I was numb. I felt that I was not in control of what I was doing. I realize now that I was probably re-enacting some aspects of the abuse. I always felt like shit afterwards and promised myself that I would never do that again.

I know now that I am in control. I still have urges but they are not so compelling as they used to be. I can rationally think about what is happening around me, why I am feeling that way and be a rational adult, not a scared 12 year old kid. I still have some confusion about my sexual identity even though I have been married for almost 32 years. I am getting more comfortable with myself and all aspects of my being. Life is not perfect and neither am I, but I'm getting better.

I'm glad that you shared your thoughts and feelings. I believe that talking openly about my feelings with others who have been there and have had common experiences is a huge relief valve. To know that I am not alone is a act of healing in itself.

Take good care of yourself,

Steve
 
Hanging on, et al....

Wow...it's wonderful how the universe works! H.O., it is just so coincidental that you chose today to post for the first time...and to have it be something I can relate to.

I have struggled with sexual identity all of my life, always feeling as though there were something wrong with me. Like others, I have been attracted to men, 'though I have never acted on this sexually. Over the last couple of months I have been wondering about/struggling with this and have come to realize that what's been going on for me is that the little kid in me has been looking at these attractive, have-it-all-together men and wanting to BE them or be like them.

This happened on three different occasions today at work and had me once again questioning my identity.

Like Steve, I've been married for a long time (28 years), and have a wonderful family. While I have struggled with my sexual identity, I haven't acted on any of my "wonderings" in a sexual way because at some level I know that this would only leave me feeling unfulfilled and filled with shame and regret.

A part of me would like to turn back the clock for a "do-over." I often fantasize what it would be like to have gone through childhood and adolescence like "normal" boys do. But alas, this was not my chosen path, and I've just had to come to a place of making peace with myself. I've realized now that I am probably not normal...only now I'm strong enough to stand up for myself and I have stopped the cyclical negative self-talk that had me believing that there is something "wrong" with me.

Ultimately, I'm okay the way I am. I am so very thankful for the opportunities to know this and I want you all to know that you have all helped me with your posts, your pateince and understanding, and your unconditional acceptance as one of the gang. And in this group I feel so very "normal!" Funny how this worked out, isn't it....?!

Don
 
Thanks all for your replies. I feel so ashamed of these feelings. I truly love my wife and find her sexually appealling. I just wish that I could clear my head of these other terrible thoughts. If she knew I am afraid that she would leave me. While I have discussed my SA with her these thoughts are more scary to discuss with her.
 
Hanging On,

It's probably not fair for me to say this to you (given that we barely know one another and that you're relatively new to the forum), but I'm going to jump over the cliff and say it anyway....

I don't believe that your wife will leave you and it would be my suggestion that you try to put this fear to one side. I also think that it wouldn't be a good idea to share this with her, as these feelings of insecurity and restlessness have nothing to do with her and, I believe, are more easily attributed to your sexual abuse (which you have said that you have discussed with her). You wouldn't want her to "take it on" because it would probably freak her out and she may not understand (...yet).

I fully acknowledge that the sexual identity confusion and your attraction to men is disconcerting and that at some level you may feel as though you are not being authentic. Unfortunately, those of us who have been sexually abused have these feelings continually... It is my hunch that this is because you didn't get what you needed when you were a child.

If we can think of ourselves as having two energies-- the "male" side of ourselves (the active, take-charge, controlling self) and the "female" side of ourselves (the nurturing, loving, creative self) we can perhaps see what may be going on for many of us. From your first post, you indicated that you had an absent father and that you were sexually abused by a male relative at age ten. It could be that there is a part of you that is desperately trying to fill that "male" void in your development.... This is one of the explanations that has made sense for me, personally.

It would be my recommendation that you begin the search for a therapist.... Not because you are crazy, but because you have childhood trauma (i.e., sexual abuse) that can be healed more easily by confronting it. Since you have already told your wife of your childhood SA, it seems perfectly reasonable that you would (and should!) take this next step. (Many health insurance plans will pay for all or part of therapy....particularly when it involves anxiety, which is a generic term that certainly applies to all of us who have suffered SA.)

I hope that one of the things that you have picked up from this discussion forum is that there are common threads among those of us who have been sexually abused....and, as you have undoubtedly learned, many of us have wives whom we love and to whom we are attracted sexually (even though we may also have some attraction to males). And just because we have some sexual identity struggles doesn't mean that we are going to act on these fantasies to the detriment of solid heterosexual relationships.

By continuing to participate in this forum and by finding and working with a therapist, it is my belief that some of your anxiety will dissipate. I'm not sure that it ever all goes away....but I am sure that it gets easier to live with....

We're here, man, and trust me, you will start to heal.

Don
 
Don,

That was very well put and I agree with you. I would like to reiterate that I love my wife very much. She was very accepting, supportive and loving when I finally told her about my SA (after 28 years of marriage). I told her about my attraction to men last year. And I told her, in a moment of anger, that I had acted on that attraction a few times. I was angry, depressed and it was one of the most hurtful things that I could have said to her at the time. I almost broke up our marriage, it came very close. She talked to my therapist and she contacted one for herself too. We worked at it and we have worked through it for the most part. I betrayed her trust in me and I hurt her. I am just now getting that trust back. I tried to explain that it was in the past, that honestly, I still had the urges but I had the power to not act on them. We've been through some rough times but they are getting better. I feel that my wife still hasn't entirely forgiven me although she says she does. I could be my own guilt.

We may never get back to what we had before. But before, I was not truthful, I was feeling so bad about myself and it was killing me inside, I felt that every day was just prolonging the inevitable. Our relationship has endured and some aspects are better, some are not as good, but we are both more open to each other now than we have ever been in the past.

Don, in one of your posts you referred to not being "normal". I'd like to point out that the statistics on boys/men who've been molested as children is something like one in six. That's a huge number of us. What was done to us was not "normal", what we did to survive and thrive was not "normal", but we made it long enough to find this place. In this place we can talk about these things that we can't openly discuss with just anyone. Given what I've been through, I'm about as normal as I'm going to get and I'm finding the compassion within myself to allow me to be at peace with that.

Take good care of yourselves, be gentle...

Steve
 
Steve,

Wow...what insight. One of the things that you said near the end of your post really resonates with me:
Given what I've been through, I'm about as normal as I'm going to get and I'm finding the compassion within myself to allow me to be at peace with that.
Click to expand...

I am feeling much the same way. I've given up on "normal" because (1) I wouldn't know it if I fell over it, and (2) it's an unrealistic goal given all that I've survived. Like you, I'm in the process of making peace with what I do have.

Thanks for the affirming post and for candidly sharing your experience with respect to revealing your "stuff" to your wife. You are a courageous man.

I appreciate your healing messages, Steve.

Don
 
For me , this involves what is called the "boy code" which filters our life experience as men. I didn't want to be a mama's boy. that was the expression in use for a boy who is over-attached to his mother. This expression is also victim blaming. I had no other reference words to describe what was happening to me. My older brother had implied permission from my dad to do what he did to me because my father said I was a contemptable sissy, a mama's boy. So they defined who i am, not me. Today these terms fit into the term gay. The struggle in the gay community today is to turn this negative to a positive and I encourage that. My experience occured before the present time and the boy code that included homophobia could not be challanged. When I hear the expression " cock-sucking-mother-fucker" I feel like my spine is slit open with a surgical knife and a box of salt is poured into the wound by someone who has a smile on his face.

About two years ago I did some regression work and I was suddenly about 3-4 years old. I collapsed to the floor with overwhelming toxic shame I cried my heart out. I screamed I don't want to be a sissy!! After this experience I was held by a group of men who dropped all barriers to their hearts and held me. This is a process of re-parenting myself. I have a new memory of how it feels to be loved by the father that is represented in each of the men.

Responsible for what happened is how we as boy-men learned to frame our experiences, the only words we were given. Again these words were always victim blaming.
P.S. I did this regression work with a group of men who are part of an organization called New Warriors. I would like to bless those men hereand thank them.

_______ be gentle with yourself
-------------------------------- RJD

[ October 14, 2001: Message edited by: RJD ]
 
RJD,

Thanks for sharing your regression experience...it sounds as though it was awesome and ultimately very healing. Wow!

Don
 
Hello all,
Have not felt like writing lately but wanted to let you know that I appreciate your posts and support. I am trying to get myself to go to a councelor but I am very scared. On the one hand I want to overcome my obsessions and on the other I dont want to drudge up all that happened again. That is where I cant figure out myself. As you all know this is something that we relive or think about on a daily basis so why am I afraid to discuss it with someone else? Its like, I want to talk about it but I dont. God bless to you all Hanging On
 
Hanging On,

It will find its way out on its own time, the door has been opened, your doing fine, no expectations here, ok?

I like what you wrote, i am sorry you have to be here, its a shame that any of us are here, fror what you wrote it sounds to me like you have a pretty good grip on things already, you are to be commended, i can tell you have struggled with this head on and have not just let it run your life for you, thats awesome dude.

I just wanted to welcome you and remind you to go easy on yourself, ok? you been though an awful lot already, just take yoru time and be kind with yourself, ok?

I am glad your here,

Safe hugs to you,

John
 
Dynamite Don,
Your post really struck a chord with me. I too have wanted to be LIKE those "have it all together guys". I am not tall, athletic, geourgous, built but Oh to be that way would make me more of a man right? Then I too would be sexually attractive to women and have them flaunting all over me, and I would be popular and fun....and my perpatrator would not be interested in me because I was a lonely kid who had no male role model ever, who longed for the male bonding that a young boy should have with his father, but he instead cared only for himself and left me to grow up without him. I just wanted someone to look to up too. Maybe I still do.
As you can see, you really struck a chord with me on this one. Any good Books out there that cover the need for male bonding in boys, and the possible outcome (as seen here) of not having that in their lives?
Thanks Don, your a brother in spirit I can tell. God Bless, Hanging On
 
Hi again,
As I so often do when I am feeling depressed, I was looking up other sites for some insight and ran across this passage. Hope it is ok to post it here. Thanks, Hanging On.

This is the site in case anyone is interested in looking further. Some good thoughts there. https://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb962/page3.html

Sexual Abuse.
Tragically, for many men and women, homosexual attractions are also rooted in haunting incidents of past sexual abuse. Sexual abuse involves any contact or interaction whereby an older, stronger, or more influential person uses a vulnerable child or adolescent for sexual stimulation. (For a more complete discussion of sexual abuse, see RBC booklet When Trust Is Lost.)

Studies show that incidents of sexual abuse are prevalent in the childhoods of adult homosexuals.20 Those who work with adult individuals seeking help for homosexual struggles repeatedly hear stories of boys having been sexually molested, usually by older boys or men. They regularly hear of girls having been sexually abused, typically by a close male family member, friend, or authority figure.

As is the case with any of the factors mentioned, sexual abuse does not automatically produce homosexual attractions. But for some it can be a major part of a context in which homosexual attractions can form. The way the damage of sexual abuse affects the development of these attractions tends to be different for men and women.

The Damage Of Sexual Abuse On Men. Strong ambivalent feelings experienced during and after incidents of sexual abuse by an older male can be a part of what forms homosexual attractions. Ambivalence is "feeling two contradictory emotions at the same moment."21 The result is overwhelming shame and confusion. The fact that somehow, in such an awful context, a young boy felt some pleasure brings a raw sense of shame. Relational connection and physical contact occurred, which naturally aroused and brought him emotional and sexual pleasure, but it also felt so horrible.

Enjoying a level of sexual pleasure with a man or older boy is difficult for a young boy or adolescent to reconcile. The shameful confusion increases when sexual abuse was the only context in which his thirst for male love and connection was seemingly quenched. It leaves the deceptive impression that sex and love always go hand in hand.

Shame and confusion provoke nagging thoughts like, "What does that say about me? Maybe I am homosexual." Consequently, the damage from ambivalent feelings can mislead confused young boys into thinking they're something they're not.
 
Hanging On,

THANK YOU for sharing some of the information that you discovered; it makes perfect sense to me and I appreciate your going through the effort to post it.

Also, I want to thank you for your initial post ("I'm Not Gay!!!"). As you certainly know, this particular discussion has generated a number of posts. Clearly it is "right on" with respect to one of the concerns that those of us who are male victims of childhood sexual abuse carry around with us.

I can feel myself healing on so many fronts, and I want to thank you and others in this forum for your insights, support, candor, and genuine sensitivity and concern. As Jeremy has stated so well, "We're in this together...." And I really feel supported here.

Don
 
Is it ever possible to not think about this EVERY $@##$@ SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE!!!!!!! Sometimes I hate myself for even thinking that my life could ever be remotelly normal. Like Im getting my hopes up for what I know will be a big dissapointment. Feeling angry today as you can see. How much would a therapist help do you think?
Hanging On
 
Hanging On,

YES...I absolutely want to support you with respect to a therapist. Granted, there is probably great variability among therapists out there, but in my opinion you owe it to yourself to see out this kind of help. Dealing with abuse issues is heavy stuff, and issues of sexual identity are, of course, common among those of us who have been abused.

As we know, once a child has been abused, his reality is distorted. "Normality," in whatever way we perceive it, is something that we all seem to crave. But the fact is that many of us wouldn't know "normal" if it came up and bit us in the butt!

As victims of sexual abuse, we know what it is to be powerless and helpless. One of the hallmarks of healing is when we learn to take care of ourselves...and the little boy inside each of us. It's extremely hard to do this alone, and this is where a therapist can help. Those of us who are SA victims need to be empowered and to learn how to do this for ourselves.

You're worth it!

Don
 
Hanging On, Don and all...

A good therapist helps, someone to talk to, someone to share your fears with, someone to guide you through the rough spots and let you get on with LIFE. You might have to talk to a few before you find one that you click with but I really encourage you to take that step if you're ready to do it. It took me 38 years to take that step and I've never regretted it. I'm a much better person now than I was 3-4 years ago. And I'll repeat what I said before. Given what I've been through, I'm as normal as I'm going to get and I'm finding the compassion within myself to allow me to be at peace with that. It does get better, it took a long time for me to take the first step but I could only do it when I was ready to.

Take good care of yourselves, all of you guys. I wish I could say that this is an exclusive club but there are far too many of us out there that have been through this. We have to continue in our support of each other.

Steve
 
Hanging On

I concur with Stever. Therapy does work. I have been going for just over 2 years and it has helped me so much moving down this path of healing. I was very lucky that I have a brother in law who works in this field track down an expert relating to child abuse. I went to her and we connected. It has been a great help in just dealing with normal day problems to go to someone who will listen and guide you. As most of you know, the biggest problem with me was that no one wanted to listen and now someone is and it feels great getting it off you chest.

We are all here to help.

Mike
 
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