I think he's getting it

[Enchantedlady]

The last week has been a quite painful one but yet I see many good things coming out of it.

My H has been very honest with me about his thoughts and urges lately. We discussed what things are sexually ok for us and what's not. HE made mention about not wanting to do anything to backslide, he feels weak at times and knows he has some more steps to take.

OK, Where is my hubby LOL, I looked at him with a huge smile and he looked back at me and said it felt good to say that. H has had problems with sexualizing EVERYTHING, being very selfish, anything goes type thing. For him to admit and set up a boundary is awesome.

I've noticed a change in his thinking, He believed at one time that he felt that his chatting wasn't hurting me or us at all. He felt he was having thoughts of wanting to be with a male and that helped to bring it to reality somewhat for him. Now he's seeing that even if he is secretive it makes a difference and still has an big affect on everything.

The whole thing for him was being secretive with everything, including his emotions for me. I still see how confused he is with many different areas but it was a nice step in the right direction for him to open up like that and also to make boundaries.

I'm hopeful that this will continue to go in the better direction and I know he's afraid of "failing". I told him that he's been this way most of his life, it's a habit and been the way he's thought so he's going to have to change that. Thank goodness he's got the counselor to help with that.

I told him that if he has days where he has given in to chatting or looking at porn or thoughts whatever, that we can work through it. My question is how do you balance being supportive and not a doormat? I don't want him thinking he can use this as an excuse to fall back and do something he shouldn't be.

I can see a difference in him and it's a good one.

 

[Lloydy]

The fear of failing stays with us for a long long time.
And it's possibly not a bad thing; it stops us getting complacent.

I'm prepared to keep working on my recovery for as long as it takes, which doesn't sound a very good prospect. But I am reassured by the fact that the work is getting easier and less as time goes on.

My question is how do you balance being supportive and not a doormat? I don't want him thinking he can use this as an excuse to fall back and do something he shouldn't be.

When he see's that your support works, and makes the changes he wants to make easier to attain, then the need for making excuses will go away.
OK, we might slip sometimes, but that become less often and less of a problem to us.

Dave

 

[SAR]

Hi Enchanted Lady,

I tried yesterday to answer your question:

how do you balance being supportive and not a doormat?

and I found it hard, I wasn't sure why, but I think that part of it has to do with accepting that the acting out really has nothing to do with us.

If I read your question right, you are wondering if your support will be taken as "permission" to act out, or if it will take away a deterrent, if he knows that you will not withdraw your support. I think this is a natural anxiety-- I certainly had my share of it-- but it exists a lot more for us than it does for the survivor.

Our support only comes into play after the survivor has done a certain amount of work for himself. If he is doing that, the chances that he will act out and/or keep secrets are lessened. If that work is still to be done, your support won't affect him all that much-- I mean, he was acting out and keeping secrets before, without your "permission" or any guarantee that you would continue to support him.

I know that sounds like very bad news, but really it's great news. It means that his change is self-motivated, something HE wants and is committed to, that honesty and these new boundaries are important TO HIM. I can say without a doubt, my boyfriend has never taken advantage of my patience or support in this way. He has slipped a few times, but never expected me to accept it or excuse him.

If anything, we have had the opposite problem-- the idea that I would understand and support him, even when I was unhappy with what he'd done, was so unbelievable to him that he kept secrets anyway, still fearing that I would "give up" on him. It took him screwing up bigtime, and seeing that I didn't kick his butt to the curb, for him to really commit to being honest with me about the little things.

Good luck to the both of you,
Sar

 

[Enchantedlady]

SAR,

I think that is what is hard for me, the acting out has nothing to do with me/us. But then for me it's hard to just let it slide. I also don't want him to think he can use this as an excuse to act out. That is a big fear for my hubby is to backslide. I told him that he just has to do the best he can. What if he does go online and chat, should he come and tell me and I just say ok? what do I do?

Which yesterday he was having a really hard day, he was really wanting to go chatting, he asked me quite a few times to please let him go online and I told him noway. We talked, and then had to leave for awhile and then later he said that the urges were gone. He said how his body hurt (that broke my heart)and it hadn't been that bad of an urge in awhile.

We're thinking that he has some addiction issues. We'll have to find a therapist that can deal with these issues better than the one we have now.

I asked my hubby today if he wanted to go alone to the counseling appointment and he told me no he wants me there. He said he's not ready to do the inner child healing stuff yet.

Over the last few weeks I'm really starting to see just how much he did keep his emotions under lock and key. Even though things seem to be coming out more I'm seeing more positive things happening to him. He's even able to identify his different emotions that is huge for him. He mentioned that he feels bad because he's been snapping at the kids.

He's also not so quick to please others even if he doesn't want to, I see him standing up for himself more.

 

[Lloydy]

Oh so many things to think about..

you are wondering if your support will be taken as "permission" to act out, or if it will take away a deterrent, if he knows that you will not withdraw your support.

This, for me at least, boils down to 'two way trust'

I also don't want him to think he can use this as an excuse to act out. That is a big fear for my hubby is to backslide. I told him that he just has to do the best he can. What if he does go online and chat, should he come and tell me and I just say ok? what do I do?

I found that not acting-out was a matter of me learning that my actions were being responded to by a level of trust that I though was almost certainly impossible from my wife.
I though that my life as a bum on the streets was going to begin the moment she learned about me acting-out with other men, I was 100% convinced of that. And after that my friends, family and job would surely follow my marriage down the pan.

It was a massive shock to discover that she still loved me and wanted to understand 'why?'
And a huge element of acting-out is a cry for help, much the same as failed suicide attempts.

I was under some kind of sub-concious illusion that if I was caught acting-out then someone would ask "why the hell are you doing this?" and then I would finally have permission to disclose the truth about my abuse.

What do you do when you husband does slip and look at porn? well, as you said here -

Which yesterday he was having a really hard day, he was really wanting to go chatting, he asked me quite a few times to please let him go online and I told him noway. We talked, and then had to leave for awhile and then later he said that the urges were gone. He said how his body hurt (that broke my heart)and it hadn't been that bad of an urge in awhile.

he DID tell you that he was struggling, and this problem is a recognised addiction just like alcoholism, then he's made a MAJOR leap forward.
I respond well to the 'carrot and stick' method of support from my wife and just love the response I get when I have resisted looking at porn, that's enough 'carrot' for me. And I can also take the supportive criticism, although it's not really criticism..... more..."discussion" that we share when I do use porn.

If I was truly critisized then I wouldn't admit to it, and the problem would just go back into the secret world that we are very good at maintaining.
Being open and constructive is much more beneficial to us.
Of course that's not easy for you guys, but if you're in for the long term then it's a 'no pain - no gain' situation - for both parties.

Even though things seem to be coming out more I'm seeing more positive things happening to him.

You ARE seeing the gains already, so you must be doing the right thing?

Take care
Dave

 

[SAR]

Dave

My boyfriend has said something like this too

I was under some kind of sub-concious illusion that if I was caught acting-out then someone would ask "why the hell are you doing this?" and then I would finally have permission to disclose the truth about my abuse.

He talks a lot about "getting caught" when he talks about different things he did, from sexual acting out to not doing homework in grade school.

"Getting caught" was like giving someone a chance to care about him, which meant asking what he was doing, but also stopping him from doing it--?-- a cry for help but mostly in the form of someone else coming along and setting his boundaries for him.

Which makes sense for him to want, because it is just what should have been done for him as a kid, and it wasn't-- however I think it is a dangerous expectation to have as an adult:

he was really wanting to go chatting, he asked me quite a few times to please let him go online and I told him noway.

There is a certain amount of support/prevention that a partner can provide, I think the most powerful and helpful way to do this is to redirect the survivor's energy by talking or getting away from the situation (turning off the computer, getting out of the house). But asking a partner to take on the boundary-creating role is unfair and impossible in the long-term. It is the same thing as a partner dragging the survivor into therapy... only at the survivor's request, not at the partner's. In the beginning, maybe all he can do is say, "please, help me get out of the house." But much beyond that, it is still not him doing the work.

Enchanted Lady,

I told him that he just has to do the best he can. What if he does go online and chat, should he come and tell me and I just say ok? what do I do?

I have never been expected to "just say ok." In my opinion, if your husband came to you, not personally upset about having slipped up, and expected you to just be okay with it, I would question his own committment to stopping.

Generally the backsliding/struggling conversations are as you say, heartbreaking, and most of the "okay"- saying is more along the lines me reassuring him that I believe he is still committed to changing and that one or two lapses do not mean he has failed or that I have stopped supporting him. Then after that we can talk about what happened and what he (we) can do next time.

Sar

 

[Lloydy]

SAR

But asking a partner to take on the boundary-creating role is unfair and impossible in the long-term. It is the same thing as a partner dragging the survivor into therapy... only at the survivor's request, not at the partner's.

Absolutely right I think, all boundaries that affect both partners - or anyone else - need to be agreed mutually.
The discussions should be be frank, brtual if necessary, but they have to be 'discussions'.
That's the only way I can see we will fully understand the workings and the consequences of the boundaries.
Remember, "we" have a very bad track record of boundaries because "ours" were blown apart many years ago. And I include partners in that statement because you guys have issues as well.

It's also something that should be done under the environment of help and support, NOT recrimination and punishment.
If I agree to not look at porn, and the 'penalty' is some king of verbal put down or maybe a physical penalty like forfeiting something I enjoy, then I'll just make absolutely sure I don't get caught!
But if I know that I'm going to get some support and encouragement then I'll ADMIT to looking at the damned stuff, and make a greater effort to not look.

Remember Pavlov's dogs? we're much the same!

Dave