I love you, I hate you, you' ugly???

I love you, I hate you, you' ugly???
W

Wifey1

Registrant
Hi Guize,
I dont know where to go with this stuff so it may as well be here. Most of you have been so supportive and dont even know me.
Somewhere in all of these years I've lost myself and cant find a foothold.
I cant figure him out and dont want to much, I know we dont communicate and havent obviously for years. It seems tho lately his theme is to drop a meteor and run like hell. I dont scream and I dont even change my body language anymore -- I think this is what shock must feel like? I'm still in it.
As the stomach turns the last I shared he had taken his "vacation" by himself. He returned to tell me that he had spent hours thinking about the "good" part of me.
and this week? Well, apparently he decided to sit me down and tell me to my face that he loves me then tells me that he hates me, that when he sees me physically the Rage boils up in him -- and that I am "Ugly".
I asked him if he could identify what "changed" his thought process. His only response to any question I had was his famous "I Dont Know". I swear to all heaven if I have to hear those 3 fucking words again I am gonna kill something. Currently I am working on killing a bottle of valium and Vicodan --
I asked him what is going to happen when it comes time that I need to be placed in a care facility -- he "assured me" he would come visit.
I asked how that could ever be possible when he does not call or come to visit now.
I am and have been more than agreeable to the divorce, but I dont have the money to file it, besides -- my thinking is this : if he wants it so bad HE should take the step to resolve his problem NOT me. He has talked to several attnys (and if i am repeating some of this i apologize) and each of them said that even if the divorce was done "amicably" the "Judge" could take the case on him/herself and "force" him to provide me with healthcare and etc.
He still continues to do small favors for me if I call -- for instance the wheel rim was bent on my car & broke a tie rod end, he came and got the car and repaired it for me.
He took my youngest daughter down to see my folks on christmas day??? I personally could not stand to be around them when 1) I myself am so sick and 2) they would "play up" their ailments to the hilt -- dad just had an aortic pump placed and an ICD (heart) & mom just had a hip replaced. Do I give a shit??
No -- with having had over 30 very serious surgeries myself WHY would I return a favor of visiting them when they have never shown ONCE for any of mine,.... ooopps take that back my mother was there for ONE of my 21 angioplasty's and had to leave as it was "getting dark".
I'm so fucking confused by this man it isnt funny -- he was so proud to get his 2 year chip for sex addiction sobriety he called me like a kid who had just gotten a new toy. But I asked him in a later conversation, if he could not be honest with me about his feelings then how could he accept a chip that requires he "not lie?" . We had held a conversation about what was considered a "lie" and exclusion of a "whole" story constituted a lie. There fore since he left great chunks out of his "story" to his group he was lieing and I felt he should return the chip. He didnt get pissed, nor did he have a verbal response , but his face showed to me that perhaps he was thinking on that subject.
He says as long as he does not have to "look at me" he loves me, but if he "sees me physically" he hates me and I am ugly?
But I cant figure out what it is that I have done that has made him think these thoughts. ???
In the mean time he went to visit our daugh in Omaha, and basically because she was so busy at work he got left to defend for himself spent a weekend watching TV (she works a shitload of hours and fell asleep during a conversation with him)--
I dont know how to approach him -- so I dont unless I am desperate. My own therapist states that I should be "using him & my youngest daughter more" to help me. No matter how much I ask, neither respond. I understand why my daughter moved to Omaha, its hard watching mom degrade so quickly, and my therapist is very worried for me. I have no one to advocate for me when I am ill, let alone get a ride to the grocery.... I do have one girlfriend who does go out of her way to fit me in and help me, but she is raising a daughter by herself and it is difficult for her also.
I asked him WHY if I can forgive and be willing to understand his behaviors for the length of our marriage and forgiveness came with that , how is it he cannot forgive me when he admits that he ran and avoided me during my worst of times and weakest of times. He even admitted that he let the other man fill his position because it was easier than to see me so ill and to have to watch me go through the pain of having the infected femoral bypass heal (this was months of horrific pain and procedures docs etc.) -- Yet he states he still fills with rage just knowing that "other man" was here for me.
When I asked him Why he could not find it in his heart or head to rationalize what exactly I did for him when he was charged with rape, and I went to court with him -- had my docs write letters to keep him out of jail (no easy task being so sick and having 3 back to back angioplastys in that time) -- he simply says "I dont know". How my emotional pain spun me into some sort of automatic survival mode, but yet I returned to help mostly my daughter, but him also once I understood the driver of his childhood SA.
My therapist is at a loss, he keeps promising he is going to make an appt with his own therapist and continues to be too busy. I would be too if I had filled my time with concentrating on getting a bachelors degree in under 3 yrs. I asked him how he thought that his sex offense is going to look on his resume, the laws in this state have and do change so quickly we didnt even know that his "minor offense" was now able to be listed on the sex offender website. His response?, Some Physician in his group for sex addicts is "working on that" they may have found a loop hole in which to get themselves removed from this website?? He was all smiles for that.
Look I'm not out to fuck this guy over, and I dont want accolades for being some sort of a Queen who "stuck by her man". Yet I cant even get him into a therapist office (his or mine) to discuss how to settle this so called "divorce".
I'm not out for money, that means nothing to me and he has none anyway, I'm not out for "things" most of that stuff is going to go to my daughters anyway, they will simply just get it sooner than before I die.
My GP freaked out on me the other day and had a melt down caused by some misinformation given to her by some "social worker" who had talked to me ONCE by telephone for 15 min. told me he was unable to help me and she screamed and I mean SCREAMED AT ME for better than 15 min then slammed the phone down. I was so confused by the time the conversation (if you can call it that) was done I immediately called my therapist, and recalld the so called "social worker" who gave me one story and refused to give me copies of his so called documentation as he keeps his notes just in a notebook --he could not reveal his other clients contact info??? -- I had my therapist call my GP while I was in his office and she states she is still willing to see me --- but WHAT trust is there for her? I was sent immediately to see a Psychiatrist upon her urging (she was pissed as the earliest appt I could get with him was feb. its amazing what a doc can do when they are pissed she got me an appt THAT day) -- the Psychiatrist said I definetly do NOT fit the classic symptoms of depression, but rather the classic symptoms of being Pissed. He had me sign a few releases then walked along the hall and straight up said to me "Sammy, I'm not sure there is even anything I can do for you. You're situation (health & housing) is so complex. The man was a total sweetheart and as far as I am concerned any Doc who can ADMIT that maybe they are in over their head and unable to help is one hell of a stand up person -- but it still leaves me in the cold.
I just dont know what to do you guys, I see hubby being in these first crazed stages of dealing with his abuse, and I cannot muster any true anger at him, FOR him I can --- but not AT him.
I understand my daughters not wanting to watch mom die like this, hell it aint no fun for me --- my siblings are too far away geographically to help me, and they of course have no more money than I.
I want hubby to be happy what ever his choice is. I want him to get his job that allows him to travel frequently, I want him to be successful -- and even when talking to him I told him I want and hope that he can some day find a partner who can support and love him as he needs and deserves to be loved and supported. I hold no animosity.
I've thought a lot about our relationship over the years, and recognize that far too many times I was "the bully" in voice and intimidating in actions. (no i never physically struck anyone but I know I can project my voice to scare the shit out of anyone) -- I apologized to him for doing that in our relationship --- he says he never recognized nor thought of it that way, but the look on his face told me he was definetly thinking that one over....
Most of my closest friends tell me that they just cant understand , that it is so hard for them to believe that he is so kind and goes out of his way to help anyone , complete strangers -- and he does , but they are having a hard time understanding his hurtful stabbing remarks to me in private --- the "I hate you and your ugly".
Physically I know I am no perfect beauty, and never have been -- I'm not much for bling bling or for make up, etc.... and I would rather be under the hood of a car than shopping for clothes any day.....
Has ANYONE gone thru the pure hatred of their spouse? Is he just so frightened of my impending physical degrading and death he is pushing me away so he does not have to deal first personn with it?
I have noticed that he has talked with his sisters and mother a whole bunch and healing his relationships with them and his father -- But I cant help but ask "What about me?" what about the damn near 20 years we've been together? --
am I wrong in thinking that if he is so set on divorce HE should file the papers and OWN this or should I do as he usually does, pushes me to the point that I Take the Action? so that he can keep his "golden boy image" to the others?
My therapist keeps "insisting" that he and my daughters take more responsibility in taking care of me, making sure I have my food and meds and getting to and from appts -- BUT they work, they need to work to keep the bills paid ---
I will be leaving him after I die with being forced to at least file a partial bankruptcy of astronomical medical bills --- the last time a friend and I sorted out the bills and this was more than 3 years ago we owed about 350,000.00

I know I have become a burden financially -- and I am sure it has been no pic nic emotionally --- I dont call him for help unless I am totally desperate and no one else is available. I am trying to give him the "space" that he has requested. I know he needs it....
He told me tho that he feels so guilty, guilty for EVERYTHING, he even said that he felt he caused my health problems. I told him that made no sense, to be rational it was and is simply genetics....
Guize, I'm stuck here -- I have no money to file for a divorce, even tho it is only a hundred bucks -- then I think another hundred bucks to finish after the "waiting period".
I asked him if he was waiting for me to die as the cost of cremation and filing of the death certificate is oddly the exact same amount. He did not respond with anything but that fucking "I dont Know" -- I think I can accept an "I dont know" occassionally, because it truly is an option of an answer --
he continues to attend his sex addiction groups but has not nor has he tried to see his therapist....
One day I was there after he came in earlier than expected while I was doing laundry (i try like hell to not be in his space at all but had accidently fallen asleep in between loads) I apologized for being there.... as if I was a little girl being caught sneaking a cookie ---
I cannot force my girls or him into a therapy session --- nor will I. I realize that I ran that household for so many years and damaged them beyonnd repair by having such high expectations to do well in their lives, and overly hypervigilant in WHO was involved in their lives so that they could go unharmed by some sexual predator (namely the ones who molested me) -- Is this my pay back?
If so I guess its one lonely helluva road to journey down alone when my intentionns were to protect --- even our so called friends avoid us like the plague , but that I knew would happen, I've been thru one divorce & expected it with this one also....
I am at a total loss, physically my therapist is doing his very best to assist me ---
My youngest daugh tho I have noticed has been drinking alcohol far too much and she admitted she is smoking some pot again from time to time -- and when I hear from my oldest she is ALWAYS on the run out the door to work (i taught her those little white lies just a tad too well) --
I am not sure I have accepted this ending, I do know though that it is lonely and painful emotionally....
Can ANYONE Identify with my situation? Can anyone have any input to this? I am at a stage where I cannot hardly leave my home because I have lost bladder control, and my cataplexy is completely out of control --- the falls are becoming worse, and the pain level is far beyond a ten on that silly little scale of rate your pain 1 being the least and 10 being the most -- physically I can get it to about a 6 or 7 .... emotionally I feel as if I am in some other universe.... and I am frightened that even my own therapist will hit his wall with being overwhelmed with my "complex situation" -- I asked him to be my Power of Attorney, and he at first refused saying that my girls need to be involved, but I cant force them -- I am going to ask him again -- I know he shared he did do it for one other client....
I feel as if I have become such a burden, especially when my own GP loses her professionalism, and has cried the last 2 visits with her --- I just want the pain meds, and then I wont bother anyone anymore....
I dont know where else to go for help, and I need hubby to make a move, he has the money and the ability... am I wrong in wanting him to own up to wanting this divorce? Am I wrong in wanting him to file?
I mean if it is more my place to do it then I will find a way to get the cash... but I am at such a loss.....
Please Guize give me some input --
and Like the John Prine song says... in Angel from Montgomery

"Just give me one thing that I can hold on to.... To believe in this living is just a ....
Hard way to go...."


Peace, Sammy
 
Sammy
somewhere in all that you asked something like "what's he doing?"

Well, I'm gonna give you another "I don't know" at the risk of a tongue lashing ;)
But my guess is he truly doesn't know, so he's doing the only thing he does know which is furious back-pedalling.

He's got a crazy life, you have to admit that. He's a ( minor )sex offender, got a broken marriage, CSA, two young daughters and a very poorly wife.
Given half of that I would be seeking my old comforts in a flash, the fact that he's still attending the sex addiction group is amazing.

Should you give him a break? only you know that, but maybe compromise is better that fighting?

The important thing is you though, and I'm sure your pain will be less if you can regain some control of the mayhem all around you, which I know you're trying so hard to do.

In the past you've told us about the many things you've been involved with and the good work you've done for many others, if there's a scrap of justice in this world then it's your turn for some good work to be returned.

the Psychiatrist said I definetly do NOT fit the classic symptoms of depression, but rather the classic symptoms of being Pissed.
Click to expand...
Send that guy to the top of the class right now, at last someone who has a grasp on reality and doesn't automatically write out a prescription for industrial strength prozac!

Take care Sammy, "of yourself !"

Dave
 
WOW!! Not real sure what to say to you. You have so much going in your life not wonder your feeling pissed. Just try to take care of yourself through all this. If your feeling pisses then you have a right to them feelings.

(((((hugs))))))

James
 
Sammy,

I am new here, and unfamiliar with your life, aside from reading this upsetting post.
NO ONE can tell you, you are UGLY. Do not allow anothers persons pain to be transferred to you.

I read you have done many good things for others, agreeing it is time to allow & expect people to be here for you at this time.

I will be watching for your future posts...to see improvement in your enviroment.
Take Care,
Niagara
:)
 
Sammy Sammy Sad Brave Spunky Sammy!

Don't know if you remember the last time I asked you this question, but:

If you were in perfect perfect health, physical & emotional, would your attitude toward "hubby" change?????

Unfortunately, you are now in a terrible position where you are sometimes forced to depend on him - so just "use" the creep & don't you worry about having one single pang of conscience! Yes, I realize that there was once Love there, but right now the only THERE there is an old old habit.

Blech!

And - as for your daughters: sorry, but I have to say something not nice.... THEY are not nice!!! THEY should be running to your bedside keeping you comforted & comfortable - too bad about their "upsetness!" The appropriate time to mourn is after someone has left us, NOT while they're still around to kick butt! AND - that is EXACTLY what I suggest you do! Use that BIG INTIMIDATING voice of yours & give those girls a BIG talking to!

Sorry if I am over the top, but GGGGRRRRRRRR!
 
Sammy,

Ah, Hell, I don't know what to say. Certainly, if anyone has any right to feel negative emotions, it's you. But it tears me up to see a good person like yourself beat themselves up over things that are beyond your control and are no part of who YOU are.

First of all, you are a "burden" to no one. You are here, you matter, and you've helped so many people here (and I'm sure other places). You have a meaning on this pebble, and if your health issues are wearing financially and emotionally, well, what chronic medical condition isn't? Aren't HIS issues equally as wearing? Hell yes!

Second, this crapola the bastard gives you.....fuck him! I know you love him, but is he good to you? FOR you? Is he worthy of YOUR affection? Granted, I'm only hearing your side of the issue, but I would have to say a resounding "NO" to that. He doesn't deserve you and surely as there's a God in the Universe (I believe), you don't deserve this shite!

You'll forgive my use of the salty language here.

The point is that you aren't the sum of the bad things in your life, or the parasites in your life. You matter. You have given me much. And I want you to know that.

everything else is just something to handle.

Love,

Scot
 
Guize,
First I have to admit I am quite under the influence of my medication. So some of this may come out as plain babble -- but then again in the last 3 yrs what hasnt? ;)
Earlier tonight I purposely picked a fight with hubby, why? Because I am so fucking sick and tired of him acting as if the world is still in perfect order if I call him or come to visit our daughter that stays with him. In a recent conversation with him I pointed out to him that he has never "advocated" for me , especially when it comes to the health problems. I also pointed out that my short "affair" (if u can call it that) with the man who helped me when I was so sick was the "'deal breaker" in our marriage how come during those weeks and months not ONCE did he stand up and take charge? His answer? -- The "FEW" times he did ask I told him "no". I am sure that I did. I also was under the influence of so many drugs I had to be spoon fed and bathed by someone else. I did say to him (and yes this maybe was vicious but true) that he was more than happy to have someone else do HIS job in caring for me so that He could continue to go to his job.
Shit -- even tho I was still very ill, this other man and I finished rehabbing the gutted kitchen, and helped him hand the drywall -- but I mudded and taped and painted -- they spent 2 afternoons laying the flooring and putting in cupboards.
he did admit that he "allowed" the other man to be his excuse so that he did not have to "lose time" at work -- I realize he gets paid by the job (he's a auto tech), but he could have used the family med leave act also..... but chose NOT to.
Today I spent the day filling out paperwork so that I could get housing for disabled on the Iowa side of the river -- BUT it will take as long as 6 - 8 months at the shortest to get in ...... I NEED to be on the IOWA side as that is where my SSI is drawnn from and also my docs plus they have the services of volunteers who will drive folks to doc appts , groceryys etc.
Todaays Meteor from himmm? .... He called me to tell me that he had contacted the Insurance Company about getting me home health aid, and then also contacted my GP to write up for my "needs"'... and he KNEW I just had been fired from her as a patient -- this will thankfully take weeks to get any real help in place.
When I saw my daughter later in the evening, she is showing me two new tatoos -- money for tatoos, but I have had to eat from fucking food pantrys as my cash on hand has had to go toward expensive mediicationns....
I asked him WHAT his plans were for the marriage ... I got the famoous "I dont know", I said thats great but your actions are NOT backing up your words -- he claims he tried to get in to see his therapist -- and MY therapist iis bitchiing at me to get my daughters to hellp me more???
HOW can one FORCE someone to help out? She responded with "you have to ask mom" -- Geeze louise folks I have been assking for over 5 yrs for help.... putting the weight BACK on mee whenn I have been doing thiis all along.
I dont YeLL and SCREAM to get someone to take me to an aappt oor to the grocery -- they have schhedules and I haave always tried to work around them to be amenable -- but I get forgotten on those scchedules for other more important things... Daughter says I left you 3 voice mails -- thats great they were iinvites to lunch, but I happenn to be in 2 back braces now and its not like I can exactly finnd even clothing to go over those damn things too??? -- I hhhave more than invited them to my place for meals and coffees... but they are always too busy or change at the last moment...
I was nasty tonight with the hubby, told him I was sick of shit with the "I dont knows" and certainly he must have SOME idea of what it is he thinks of whille he caaannot sleep at night -- he screams at me they are night mares and he cant remember them, I suggested he try telling the doc so he could get some reelief, if not by medicationn but other means also --
I told him all the toys he owned he could sell sommething or hock something enought to come up with the hundred bucks to file for the divorce. He tells me the other day all I wanted was to have him cover my Inssureance and autoo -- that was fine thenn.... but I told him I needed to know for my own self if he even cared enough to try to puut the marriage together -- got another I dont knoow -- I asked him what the fucking problem was what was the big deal stopping him, was it him waiting for me to die so that he didnt look like a bad guy? Was it him hearing over and over in his head his mothers words "Your father left me because he couldnt handdle a sick wife" -- that one finally blew his gasket enough to tell me it was me having this "affair" with this guy -- I said if that iis it, then to stop fucking arounnnd and DIVORCE ME!!!
I coulldnt stop mysellf I got down right cruel, I told him I was pissed that he could not forgive what he admittedly owned part of and that how in the fucck it made any sense to be so angry at me when I was and did put up with his 16 plus yrs of lies, porn, prostitutes, fucking a 20 yr old etc... if it was that big of a deal grow some fucking balls quiit being such a chickenn shit and divorce me.
I told him I wanted ALL the tax return to move on, he informs me he "needs" 2500.00 to pay off a loan on his truck. I asked him how that was MY problem when I didnt own anything, wouldnt GET anything --- I also then really tore into him by telling him I could get an attny and he would have to pay for my attny fees and I could get the housee and hee would be forced to sell most of his "toys" --he got reallly red in the face and said "yea I guess it is MY problem" --
I ripped and asked where my fucking accolades were for all the years as a wife, mother, etc supporting him in anything he wanted to do -- and then I really got dirty, I said you knnow that dream job you really want? I could fuck you out of that in a heart beat, he says I plan to tell them of my conviction -- I said yea, thats great but I could go crazy adn start calling you at work every day, and remember all my cop buddies, I could get them to hasssle the shit out of you to the point you couldnt work at a freaking fast food joint...
that really made his eyes go big, because he knows I have worked so much in the community it couuld fry his ass bad... he got pissed told me to leave... I said I dont have to I still have a key to what is partly MY housee, and evenn if we divorced I know I could live here at least ONE yr befoore a sherriff could legally locck me out --
he stormed out the back door, I followed him, he told me to leave and I said I dont have to -- tell me WHY the fuck you wont divorce me or make attempts to make amends and DO Anything to make amennds in this marriiage... he wouldnt answer just stormed up to his bedroom and slammed the door -- at that point I called him a biig pussy and he needed to grow some serious balls....
UGH!!! Part of me is disgusted with myself for my behavior, the other part of me feels like I released a bunch of pent up shit that has never been addressed... here it is 3 yrs later and WE STILL havent discussed my anger and pain about his actions of getting drunk and screwing a 20 yr old.....
I have more folks telling me to dump him all the time... that would be great if I could get someone to come up with the money to file.
I told him historically in our relationship he has always worked at getting ME pissed enough to take action, now I hope to get him pissed enought to take action.
I know he feels guilty for my situation, with facing having to go on public health system -- but shit at least they would have to give some responnse beyond "I DONT KNOW"" ...
I know that in reality a lot of his rage is not truly directed AT me or MY actions. He tells me "everyone in his sex addict group" says to divorce me. I asked him why he has not taken their advice -- "I Dont Know"........ I asked if he felt he would ennd up looking like the "bad guy" divorcing a wife who is so ill -- he didnt answer...
I just want out.... I dont have anything to pawn to file for the divorce, nor do I have anyone I could borrow the money from and really pay them back -- its just impossible on 579 a mth... I really dont want attnys involved because there is nothing to gain or lose except a house that is stuck in a predatory lennding nightmare...
I really dont want his money, he needs every dime he earns just to keep the bills paidd....
I asked him also if he wasnt filing because he was afraid of losing the daughters -- and I pointed out that already they come to him only when they "want something" (mom can say NO real eaasy).... he said no that wassnt it, except his voiice and his body language said something else...
I just cannot believe after 3 years that "I dont know" is an acceptable answer anymore....

He stopped his antidepressant, weaned himself off -- but I can not nor do I care to inform his docs, thats none of my businesss.

Kolisha, My feeliings toward him have diminished very drastically over time. I still want for him to be free of his pain, but I cant and refuse to be part of the way he can "hide" behind his bullshiit as far as I am concerned. As to the daughtters -- one lives 5 hours away, there isnt much I can do to "force" either of them to do a damn thiing -- they are 22 & 23, at some point they will have to come to grips with my illness, I just dont have the energy to argue with them, its all I can do often just to bathe -- I journal for them -- but perhhaps my theerapist will have more options for me, right now i am scrapping to survive everyday -- he'ss been great so far? perhaps he'll call a family mtg and intervene for me???.. ANd YESSSS I do use the creep for everything I possibly can get out of himm!!
Dear Scot, you always have such a wonderful way with your words... they are calming and bring light at the end of what seems like a tunnel. I do truly try to tackle this elephant ONE bite at a time ---
Recently when I was in the crayola wing I met this guy who plays a beauty of a guitar and sings like no other. When we were in the whacky ward together we often sat and sang and played together. So now for ME, a couple times a week we get together and practice. Then on "Open Mic" nights we hit those spots and sing and play together. I had forgotten how many years I had sung both for school and church choir --- he helped bring ouut some real joy in my life again. Not meant to brag but we''ve had 2 standing ovations, and the owners always make sure to ask us to come back the next night -- quite an accommplishment.
I used to wake my girls up for school always singing some silly madee up song, just enought to iritatte them til they were out of bed begging me to "Pleeeeeeezze stooop!" :D
I feel like a bit of a diirt bag ... but maybe, just maybe me pusshing his buttons and not being such a kind hearted person will set hiss wheels in motion?

Was I bad??? Wass I playing far too dirtyy?
I hhave always been willing to stand up and take any criticcismm of wheree and how I fucked up in the relaionship ---- I still am willing too hhear thoose thiings -- more than likelyy tho the only thing hhe wwwill cconcetrate on iss thee cruuel shit I said toonight?
Why woould he want too keep me if I screwed the rrelatiooonhip uup soo bdddly ?
I surmise it is the first time he has eveer felt aany powwer in the relationsship -- and he is using thiis as "payback time"?
Haveee any of you guys gonee thru this typeee of behhavior for soooo looooonnng?
Peace (for all oof us))
Sammy
 
Sammy
Was I bad??? Wass I playing far too dirtyy?
Click to expand...
You're a smart lady, and I'm not trying to be cold or take emotions out of this situation, but my response to you is "too dirty for what?" This looks like a tactical question.

You have been asking for and not getting some pretty reasonable things from this guy-- is it possible that the "getting nasty" with him now is a way of asking him to be grateful for all of the times you haven't let him see the anger, all the vindictive things you could have done a long time ago but didn't?

Does it help you to get what you need from him to release this stuff now? Will it provoke any action or change from him, or will he throw your anger back at you to keep things from really changing? I guess you are the one in the best position to answer that.

I am writing this last part for both of us Sammy-- it's so hard sometimes to take care of ourselves the way we take care of others. When we do it for kids, friends, strangers, it's nothing more than what we should be doing, but for ourselves it's selfish, demanding, guilty. I know if it were your friend in your situation you wouldn't rest until she had what she needed, I'd do the same. It's good to be your own friend now Sammy, you need a friend like you.

SAR
 
Sar -

Does it help you to get what you need from him to release this stuff now? Will it provoke any action or change from him, or will he throw your anger back at you to keep things from really changing? I guess you are the one in the best position to answer that.

Quite honestly I have no idea if this will help or hurt to get what I need from him. Perhaps all I really need is some kind ANY kind of a "reaction". I will admit it DOES feel good to let the anger fly that I have held back for so long.... A release, of what has taken a huge amount of strength to not "let him see or hear" while trying so hard to understand and be compassionate and empathetic about. I have known all along I cant fix him or do it in HIS time. But the reality is my physical health is a sitting time bomb --- I am doing as much as I can to take care of me, and have been for a long time --- and Gurl I am SCARED to even go into the thought process that my last days I face pretty good odds that my family will abandon me --- leaving me alone.
Occassionally he "tries" to throw anger at me -- but mostly what he does is try to "use" my stroke as a way to "twist" my words against me. My therapist knows this, and my own daughter had tried it also.... I can tell you this much, that is a very very painful situation. Yes, I do have some residual effects from the strokes, and occassionally my narcolelpsy/cataplexy stirs a mixed pot --- but as I expressed to my therapist the other day and he agreed "I feel as if I am being "GASLAMPED" (an old movie where a woman was made to feel insane).
It all feels so damn cruel in the midst of being so weak -- and hell yes I understand the dichotomy (sp) behind that with my own self being a survivor. I am doing the best to be my own friend, but SAR truly I am soooo tired and sick so much now I cant find the energy to take care of me in the speed I need to get the much needed care I need.
I know that my next appointment with my therapist he will have to take the lead and help me get myself more stable ---- I am asking for help from all those that can and do have the power to assist me in getting set up for the time I no longer can do anything by myself, hell I've been trying for over a year to even get a home health aid to even come in and help me dust & change my sheets? there again it is hours on the phone with the insurance company, --- which just talking exhaust me..... but ya know when I saw that Psychiatrist and even HE admitted there probably wasnt much if anything he could do to help me -- it sure hammers home yet again what mayo hospiital said to me -- no chance of a heart transplant you would disease the heart too fast -- in plain english, I would destroy a perfectly good heart that someone else could put to better use. that I am "useless and unworthy" -- I have to really fight my brain and heart to just keep telling myself its the disease and NOT me --
If it is hubbys guilt holding him back from divorcing me and helping me out -- its more punishment, and I see it and told him I think for the first time he is feeling power, except he is injuring ME with it --
I can let go of him, I dont have a problem doing that -- truly. I just NEED for the divorce to happen and I will be damned if I wreck his potential for having a much deserved happy future, I will NOT add to that destruction -- he already admits he hates me --- so WHAT could possibly be going thru his mind to keep me so hog tied?
I am doing my best to take care of me, I keep myself out of volatile situations with not just hubby, but the very community that I worked in as I know they quickly forget how ill I really am, and they are hard pressed when I say NO, to projects --
It has not been difficult to "isolate" myself from them -- There just is no energy or time, -- I know this will work out in some fashionn that it is is supposed to...
I keep that alive in me, and I dont place unrealistic expectations upon others --- at least not that I am aware of --
Thanks for listening and caring, truly it helps -- Peace, Sammy
 
After I posted the above post -- my phone rang, it was my daughter -- just out of the blue, she stopped by to see if I needed anything from the store???
I was so grateful, and did indeed give her a small list & some money.... God sure does work in mysterious ways.... but then again I also know that deep inside my girls do love me and have a hard time trying to figure out ways to "help me", I told her this was a good way to help me out, just to stop along the way and check on me -- in the past she has even done my few dishes occassionally....
Even hubby tho he swears he hates me does things for me when I ask???? -- I never insist that it be done that moment, in THEIR time -- this adds to my confusion....???
I know my girls love me, and will in the end figure a way to help care for me....
Now my question is this -- I say that I can let my hubby go no problem...... but I am wondering, do I "Love him" and am doing stupid shit to keep him attached to me?? and NOT the other way around??... I know that I "care" about him, but there is a huge difference of Love and Care?...
Can anyone describe the difference maybe that is where I am most confused? I am just bullshittiing myself iinto thinking that I dont love him -- but I am more like one of those stalker people who give double messages???
UUgy... I feel so ugly in my soul being so twisted?....
Peace, Sammy
 
Hello
This is my first time on this website. It is obvious that most of you have a long history here and hope you don't mind one more participant. I had to write you Sammy and let you know I also have a lot of twisted and tortured feelings. I really don't know any of your background but I thought by sharing my current experience it would make you not feel so alone Sammy.
I have just recently seperated from my husband of almost 8 years. We have been together 14. We have two very small children. The seperation was his idea. I never saw it coming. I found out 2 years ago that he had been sexually abused almost daily from 8yrs old-12yrs old by a neighbor. Up until the last week I was the only person that knew. He hid it for 30 years. After he told me,I remember thinking that explains his behavior on so many aspects. I felt so much pain for him and wanted to do anything I could to help him. He refused. Over the past 2 years, I believe, him telling me created more turmoil in his mind and life. I thought, boy this should be a burden lifted but since I was not the victim I will never know what leaking that "secret" has done to him. It opened a pandora's box.
His depression and lack of coping with stress became more noticeable. He was frustrated easily much more then before. We decided when I gave birth to our first child 4 yrs ago that he would stay home since I made more money and had job stability. He always seemed content with being a stay at home dad but I truly believe he was not really happy doing it and would not admit it.
In Sept. 2004, we got into a fight and I said some terrible statements in front of our four year old ("mommy has to hold daddy's hand", etc...). We did not speak for about 2 days and then he stated he was leaving. He told me he was sick of being demeaned, mistreated, taken for granted and degrated. I truly do not get that.
Anyways, he moved out of the bedroom and 2 months later he is still at the house. When I started pressing the issue he eventually found a place to move to in early Dec. I had an additional lock added the next week to keep him out on the weekends and eves. He insisted on still watching the kids during the day. This sent him over the top. This was a move I found very standard and somewhat insignificant but to him this was monumental.
He has only been able to communicate or rage against me through email. He is almost compulsive about that behavior. Well the day after the locks were added he went on a writing rampage. I got several emails myself, a mutual friend got one and then he topped it of with an email literally assassinating my character with his spin on me and events from our past and sent it to our parents, family and friends. He wanted to publically crucify and humiliate me and he did.
He called several times that evening. The next day there was several conflicting calls to me. He told a good friend he wanted to bring me down to his level and then we could start building our marriage back. He also told her that those new locks would not keep him out. I became very frightened of the man I loved and was in serious emotional distress. I ended up taking out a temporary restraining order. It made and makes me sick. We go to court 01/03/05 to see if an order of protection is needed. I honestly don't want one. I am not sure why. There has been threats of physical violence in emails and definately degrading and humiliating statements to me. I love him and I feel he needs help. I keep blaming all of his actions on his childhood. Is that wrong? If an order of protection is obtained then the court can order mandatory counseling. That would be a good thing, right? Mine is different from yours Sammy because I know I still love my husband but he has not made it easy. It is hard to love someone that loathes themself. My conflict arises if he meant what he said to my friend about wanting to rebuild the marriage. I would love to do that but I can not do that until he makes himself well or atleast attempts too. That will probably kill me because I don't know if he will ever seek help since he has always refused in the past.
I am trying to remain positive and true to my own character. That is all anyone can do.

Thanks for listening.Val
 
Welcome Val,

I am new to site, new to BF mother-son incest knowledge in the last month. I have been empowered with a wealth of info & sadly admit found comfort in reading of other partners experiences being so similar to mine, in regards to there being a reason why he reacts the way he does, for 5 years the puzzle pieces have been unable to fit.


I have seen in my BF some relief to be opening up,but also fear in making it known. The battle he has been hiding a lifetime, is out. He goes from talking about detailed situations, to complete avoidance of me. I am well aware he is so uncertain about trusting me, as much as he knows I love him unconditionally, how really can he be expected to trust anyone...when he couldn't trust his own Mom ?

At this particular time, I think he must regain control of what he is doing as far as sharing the SA, analyze the level of pain & uncertainty it is causing him, by talking out loud,he must determine whether it is causing him more pain to bring it to the surface allowing him to gasp for air, or remain as the anchor he continues to have tied to his ankle pulling him to the depths of the Ocean.

Perhaps at this particular stage or time in his life, he wants to be no longer adrift at Sea, has spotted dry land,is heading in to shore.

Regards Niagara :)
 
Val, Niagra & Guize

Its so sad to meet such wonderful people in the fashion we have to meet under. But I am certainly blessed by each of you -- including the men who so openly share with each other and pop over here to the F& F to help us out.
since I have found this site it has certainly been a haven for me during storms and even calm waters --
I know that I care for and about my husband, and even on some level "Love" him. But as far as being "in Love" -- lordy lordy I dont know if that could ever happen again.
The cold vicious attacks from him tear at my very inner core and all I have ever stood for and lived my life for.
to this day if he called me in need of ANYTHING I would be there in a flash to help him, no matter what it is his request would be. Being a survivor of SA and those abuses that go along with it, sadly give me insight not only to his plight, but have also taught me much about my own self and my own behaviors.
Hearing him say he even feels "guilty for your illness" just about kills me -- and I know he could not hear the reality in my response of "thats just Genetics how could you EVER cause this?" I bite my tongue when he says such cruel thinngs to me and wonder -- how much I was and said cruel things to him when I was in the same stage he is in with his healing?
God forgive me if I injured him -- and I have even told him I was sure I was cruel and didnt listen to his needs whenn I was at my poinnt tht he is in. Ive thanked him for taking on raising our daughters during my own shitty time -- Perhaps this is just my paying my dues to a man who did so for me when he himself kept his secret to his self...
he supported me when I confronted my abusers, and denied my parents access to my daughters -- and supported me when I cried buckets of tears when I missed my "mom" so much -- and even supported me to come up with "little white lies" so that evenn the visits now are kept to only a couple hours.
I never knew I could feel jealous that others could reach him now, when I cant.... but at least others are there to fill his needss. And I am grateful and thankful for that, but also carry the anger when I wonder has he "'told the whole story" of his years of acting out.
Sometimes I dream that I get to sit in his sex addicts meetings to have the opportunity to share MY side, and to defend my own actions ....
My youngest daughter and I both cried the other day when I could only muster out the words "I just want my life back" ... she broke into further tears and said that too is exactlyy what she wantss ...
But we cant go back, we must move forward. sso far I am on a path that is rocky , hhilly annd am so unsure of what step to take next, afraid that if I step wrong, it will createe an avalanche thath I can not stop or immpaact -- so I am frozen.
I truly feel for the first time he is feeling power in our relationship in which he has never felt before -- there fore he "creates the chaos" to keep me unstable -- knnowing me so well that when I get even the sligtest hint of information I start research to take action.
I wonder too if some of it is a way to "get back" at me for his lack of involvment in our marriage?
He is hitting me below the belt at my physically weakest time -- I donnt know how much is conciouus and how much is subconcious?
for example this past week he said he called the iinsurance commpany to find out if I can get a homme health aaid -- but he did it without asking ME first, and had the knowledge that I had just had a huge crazy screaming at from my long term GP, and that I am in the process of interviewing Docs who would qualiffy to fill my current GP''s position.... it blew me out of the water --- since my diagnosis of severe heart diseseee & several other problems he has NEVER ONCE gone to a doc appt with me.
whenn I expressed I was not very happy that he had NOT called and asked my perrmission first he blew a gassket -- yet he knew of the problems, -- His "swing behavior" is keeping me off balancee, and I think also he knows that is the only time I talk with him.
He asked to be left alone for awhile, and that MAAYBE he would want to communicatee with me again.... BBUT WHY like thiis?
I suspect it is just repeatinng behavior that his own parents did.

sorry I cant be of much use to help right now -- and have not a guiding word -- I continue to manage as much of my life as I can -- Its certainly hard whenn every family member wants to play Ostrich.....
I just leave the contact up to hiim -- and try my hardest to keep calm cool and collected when he ddoes appprooachh me...
In reality I keep telling him that the divorce he requested is more than in order and fair, that I dont want any "thiing" from him -- assured him that the relationshiip he will have withh the daughters he helped raise will never be sabotaged bby me (he knows this is true i did not do it with my fiirst divorce) --
I truly dont want to die a miseraable death, and know that i will more than likely eend up in some state run nursing home -- he assuredd me he would come visiit, and my only answer back to hiim was "If you have a hard tiime looking at me now and making contact how and WHY should I beliieve that you will come visiit me in some place where I will eventuaally be bedriddenn?
He had no answer just knowing I was speakiing truth ---
I understand he wants a better job, and am happy that he is working so hard to gett it -- but his monsters in the dreams and nightmares thaht he swears he cannot remember -- will conntinue to chaase him, until he faces them downn and deals honestly withh them --
I pray his recovery iis less painfful than my oown....
I want trulyy only the BEST for him, but I am so sorryy that he rarely even callls to "find out how I am " -- I wish I could change 3 freaking words to ALL of his questions.... I DONT KNOW...
Now todayy I am the one who can truly say
I DONT KNOW... tiime wwill ppass and hopefully he will be able to answwerr the questiions asked of him.
Peace for us ALL, Sammy
 
Sammy,

I offer this not as an excuse for his ansering "I don't know" to everything. I find it very hard, honestly to excuse him ANYTHING as he's so hurtful to you. But sometimes (for me, most of the time), we really DON'T know how to answer anything related to recovery.

I must, however, get back to you, now. I hope, truly, deeply hope, that you are more focused on yourself and your issues these days, because you're worth the effort you give to other people.

We lose sight of this at times with the people who are helping us out the most. And sometimes (not in MY case, believe me! :D ), people feel they have no right to comment or to take us to task when we're hurtful because we're "dealing with our demons."

Not true. Not true at all. We're humans, and as we deal with each other and reclaim the respect we deserve, so we should give others the respect they deserve.

You are deserving of so much more, Sammy. You've touched many lives here. Certainly, you've touched mine. There's a line in the Talmud that I keep going back to. "One (edited for "Political Correctness" :p ) who saves a life, saves the world entire." You, and others who come to support different people, have saved mine. So whenever you feel down on yourself, you remember that, Sammy. Please remember that.

Peace and love,

Scot
 
Sammy,

but his monsters in the dreams and nightmares thaht he swears he cannot remember -- will conntinue to chaase him, until he faces them downn and deals honestly withh them --
I pray his recovery iis less painfful than my oown....
I want trulyy only the BEST for him, but I am so sorryy that he rarely even callls to "find out how I am " -- I wish I could change 3 freaking words to ALL of his questions.... I DONT KNOW...
Click to expand...
That sums it up, until "WE" do the work the monsters will always be there, and while we're running from them, we truly "don't know" what the hell is going on. I lived through over 25 years of marriage saying those words, even when asked if I "wanted sex?" I wasn't capapble of making my own decisions, I dressed like a vagrant, I'd eat whatever was around at the time, watched TV, got hammered, and never made a decision.
If I say "I don't know" now I'd better mean it, she reacts just like you do Sammy, and I know exactly why.

I truly feel for the first time he is feeling power in our relationship in which he has never felt before -- there fore he "creates the chaos" to keep me unstable -- knnowing me so well that when I get even the sligtest hint of information I start research to take action.
I wonder too if some of it is a way to "get back" at me for his lack of involvment in our marriage?
He is hitting me below the belt at my physically weakest time -- I donnt know how much is conciouus and how much is subconcious?
Click to expand...
"creating the chaos" that returns everything to the status quo of our old comfort zones.
We start to feel the 'power', but as the old quote says "with power comes responsibility" SEE ABOVE.
How can we do responsibility when we "don't know" anything? That's a bullshit statement to a degree, but with a shred of truth, we don't see ourselves as capable of using the newfound power, and it's responsibilities, because it's new to us and we're used to another old comfort zone, somebody else taking responsibility.

As the survivors we really have to grasp this concept and work at it, we have to accept out mistakes and learn from them. Most people do this as a natural progression as they mature, but I don't think we do in an altogether positive way.
What did we learn about power and responsibility when we were young? We learned that people that have it use it in ways we don't like - or at least ways that we later learn 'fuck us up'.
So our concept of power and responsibility is shot to hell, and it's hard to put it back together again.
Which is why this seemingly small incident stood out for me.

for example this past week he said he called the iinsurance commpany to find out if I can get a homme health aaid -- but he did it without asking ME first, and had the knowledge that I had just had a huge crazy screaming at from my long term GP, and that I am in the process of interviewing Docs who would qualiffy to fill my current GP''s position.... it blew me out of the water --- since my diagnosis of severe heart diseseee & several other problems he has NEVER ONCE gone to a doc appt with me.
whenn I expressed I was not very happy that he had NOT called and asked my perrmission first he blew a gassket --
Click to expand...
He made a choice to test that newfound power, took a decision on his own in the belief he was right.
And even though it was a small thing, him not asking you first and you saying so, it blew him away.
The normal reaction, which you quite reasonably expected, would have something like - "sorry about that, I'll ask in future"
My reaction a few years ago would have been just like hubby's "Fuck it, why fucking bother!"

And I'm NOT passing criticism here Sammy, it's HIS problem, we seem to overeact to things in a big way, we make mountain RANGES out of molehills! :rolleyes:

I still react like this, certainly not to the degree I once did, or as often. But it's still there.
Yesterday my wife reminded to replace a light bulb that blew at the weekend and I'd forgot about. ( one of six downlighters so the room wasn't in darkness ) but I was offering grovelling apologies as though I'd blown all our money on a losing horse. But not for long, she recognises this behaviour and lets me know in no uncertain terms that I'm in 'victim' mode again. So I start grovelling for that.....aaarrrghhh :mad:

Some of us are masters of bringing everything down to 'our level' - why? because it's what we know, we feel comfortable there, and it kept us safe - alive even - for a long time past.
But we NEED to dragged outta there!

Dave
 
All,
I took some advice from your postings -- and a few moments ago finished reading some news articles written about me -- from my pre - life (i'm smilen with a smirk ya'll know that pre - life before disclosure)
Scot, you're RIGHT, I have done SOME good -- and it is in print, I just needed to read it , sure it was some reporter --- but it was just enough to help me recenter some....

AND Dave, you're words .... "I would have just said "Fuck It".... man you nailed it -- how can there be any win in that "little (not little at all) incident" --- he couldnt win, there is no exact science,.... I geuss its far too easy for me to be in "my level" of healing and when you said "Fuck It" --- it slammed me back to the reality, Hubby didnt have a chance in hell when I was closed off in remembering where "HE IS" in his recovery, journey, healing....

currently we remain at some sort of an agreed standstill or "pergatory" -- until I am able to be successfully physically moved to where I can receive the best possible health care he has agreed not to divorce me.

We dont talk, or call -- and my daughter has stepped up to the plate now by coming to pick up my laundry and get grocery's for me. My drivers license is now gone, until I become more physically capable of driving again... I'm not kickboxing yet.... but if I came back all those other times.... you can bet by mid summer... "I" wont just be a dream...


Peace for us All, Sammy
 
Sammy

I'm not kickboxing yet.... but if I came back all those other times.... you can bet by mid summer... "I" wont just be a dream...
Click to expand...
With your sharp mind, and the love for those around you that you give so freely, you bet you'll bounce back.

Give in - you don't know the meaning of that!

Dave ;)
 
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