I have a question regarding female perpetraters...

BigV

Registrant
Do you ever get the feeling that women who sexually victimize children don't actually realize that they are doing anything wrong, or are in a very deep state of denial about it? Our society perpetuates this idea that women are incapable of harming children. Have these women been conditioned into believing that what they are doing is not harmful, simply because they are women?

I'd like to hear peoples views on this.

BigV
 

JohnF

Registrant
I have no doubt that most female abusers were abused themselves. I don't think that's an excuse to abuse others though.

An adult perpetrater knows what she's doing is wrong, yet she choses to do it anyway. She may be able to rationalize (hell, I'm an addict, I can rationalize anything) but she knows she is doing wrong.

My first perpetrators were sisters...14 and 12 when I was 9. I have long since forgiven them...for the longest time I looked at it as childhood experimentation. Maybe it was...but I don't think it was any less harmful than it would have been if it were a 14 year old boy. In fact in many ways it may have been more harmful...because I liked it.
 

b869

Registrant
I Know for a fact my sister thingk what she did/ does to me and my brother is not wrong because she is a woman...


Its unfair! She thinks that Men are the only abuser and not women...

Marvin
 

BigV

Registrant
That's what I mean. It's seems as though popular culture has spread this idea that if a women does the exact same thing as a male perpetrator, but to a boy, that somehow it's different. She's female, a care giver, and in a patriarchy it is not acceptable to place women in such a powerful role as victimizer. People may place the label "perpetrator" on such a women, but they'll most likely be thinking, or saying "well, it's not like he was molested by one of those horrible men." This role is fiercely reserved by our society for men.

I also believe that female perpetrators, even though deep down inside they know they are doing wrong, are using this as a rationalization. I think that these women are in a far deeper state of denial then men, and that the idea that they are doing something wrong is much more deeply buried in their heads then it is with men. These women have been taught their whole lives that it's imposable for women to harm children, that it's not in their nature, or biology. I truly believe that these women, and our society are unwilling to bestow such a huge degree of responsibility and authority onto women. I swear to god, it's as if we're all sleep walking around this issue.

I agree that these women probably were victims at some point, but then again, they may not have been. In any case, that is not an acceptable excuse; although, the mass media would make it out that it is perfectly just cause, and that these little boys are somehow partially initiating the abuse.

There are two ideas that people in our society feel is a direct threat to our concept of power and gender: that women can be perpetrates who effect children just as deeply as any man, without being excused any more then men; and men and boys can be victims and survivors, who deserve just as much support and compensation then any women.
 
Hi my brothers.

Just wait until it's your "mother" who was your abuser.

She wasn't abused as a little girl, but she wasn't a happy child either.

But to be fair, I didn't realise what she had done to me was child sexual abuse. Until August of last year when all those long buried memories came to the surface.

However all my life I had seen what she was doing to me, almost everytime that I took a bath or shower. But alyways thought it was what a "mother" was supposed to do.

She had always told me that I was the "man" of the house.
Go figure,

Heal well my brothers/friends.

"I will take that lost boys hand, I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunlight forever into eternity".

Little Pete & big Pete but 1 (Irishmoose)
 

dark empathy

Registrant
This is disturbingly true Big D.

in my case, the abuse was perpetrated by gangs of girls at secondary school, and it was usually framed as a joke for my trousers to be removed in public or my face spat in.

One thing Larry said a while ago was "Can you imagine the reaction if a gang of boys had done that to a girl?"

the pereception that women can't be abusers is awful, ---- though not quite as awful as the one that men must somehow have been behind it.

In my case, i think there wasn't any motivation, it was simply gang mentality and, ---- supposedly, a joke. Would this have happened if I were female? Hell no! someone would've stopped it, ---- but of course, men are perfectly okay being the objects of such jokes, and when a girl does it it's just harmless humour.

I don't even think my abusers would even remember what they did to me, ----- not that I care.
 

BigV

Registrant
Here's another example, but in a slightly different context. I was talking to two female friends of mine today, and they mention an organization called the Rape Relief Society. I asked if this society provided support for male survivors, and they said no, they then said they thought this was unfair. One of the girls mentioned a mutual male friend who just got out of a relationship with an abusive women. She then muttered something to the effect of "But, knowing 'John', I'm not to surprised." Again, blaming the man, and the women isn't expected to take responsibility for her own actions. I pointed this out to her, and asked her if she thought that the role of victimizer is to powerful a position for a women to occupy, and that's why it must be 'John's' fault. She just sat there and stared at me like a deer caught the head lights. Her only response was "I guess." Typical.
 

dark empathy

Registrant
I remember one so called "introductory lecture" I had to etchis of S// where the lecturer (a feminist of the, "kill all the men variety"), flat out said that women were always the victims of abuse.
She did admit that men (sinse they were so evil), could occasionally abuse other men, --- but women being abusers? Impossible!

I think if I hadn't had my laptop, a set of headphones and some loud music to drown her out I might have got up and started yelling!
 

Eyes1111

Registrant
It's so disheartening to learn that when you've been maliciously mistreated by a woman or a group of women, as a man, society would rather not talk about it and tell you to quit whining.

A lot of things are to blame for this but most of it, I believe, is from modern feminism's painting of women as victims and men as the majotiry abusers.

Not to mention their framing of men as priveledged so their experiences don't count. So, if you're a male victim of female abuse, you can forget about garnering any shred of sympathy, emapthy, or chairity from them since your experinces don't compare to what women go through.

Which is why I gave it up. Sure, I'll support it but only at half the level I used to show. Because I'm too aware of the reality of what feminism truly is now: A support group to advance women. Nothing more.

Naive of me to have thought there'd be a place for me in feminism. But since I don't fit their standard model of "Victim" then I'm too priveledged to be bothered with.
 

dark empathy

Registrant
Depends upon the feminist, i've met some very nice feinists, --- and read articals by them as well, and actually count myself as a feminist in so far as I believe there are no significant factors in either genda which means either genda should be treated wih anything but respect and considderation for who they are individually, ----- I actually think the male sterriotype, with it's emphasis on repressing emotions, behaving like an idiot and it's hatred of compassion is just as bad in it's way as the female one.

if I can ever finish my phd thesis and be qualified enough, I've every intention of publishing articals on this subject sinse it's something I feel really strongly about.

The aforementioned lecturer is herself a quite horrible person, ---- aside from her views, once, she attempted to sue the department at one point, ---- and at another, actually threatened to close the student philosophy society (which I was president of at the time), because we were getting better speakers than she was in her organization of the post graduate version.

while extreme feminism, ----- or more acurately, female shovenism is somethign I dislike as much as it's male version (probably more because of it's personal effect on me as a surviver of female gang rape), I think the personality of this very unpleasant lecturer also had something to do with it.
 

Eyes1111

Registrant
I've read articles from feminists going on about how ALL men are priveledged and that their experiences don't compare to what women go through.

Did the feminist writers and ones you know talk about male priveledge? Because I wouldn't feel welcomed at all.

I too believe that male stereotypes hurt. But modern feminism perpetuates the stereotypes by lobbing "Privledge" at men and excluding them from the discussion, including male victims. Heaven help you if you were abused by a female.

May I make a suggestion for your paper? Please mention how wrong the whole "Male Priveledge" theory is. Only serves to make male victims like me hurt. I'm sick and tired of raising this concern only to be met with hostility and shunning.
 

dark empathy

Registrant
Unfortunately, like everything else, the extreme and angrty minority seem to get noticed more than the reasonable ones.

Some of the better feminists i've come across do not talk about male vs female experience, ---- a concept which I find very strange, being as I count the fact that I'm male as about as important as the fact I'm 5 foot 8, ---- and would indeed get my genda changed were I the least interested in having relationships with men sinse the usual interaction of genda on sterriotype causes me endless problems in trying to start a relationship sinse I cannot! make the first move.

The better feminists I've spoken to simply talk about the perception, ---- both social and individual and the expectations place on either genda, ---- which I think is a reasonable ground for both gendas to have complaints, and indee grounds for male victims of female abusers to be recognized as a group who've been treated very unfairly.

I havent' written any papers on the subject yet, sinse at the moment I'm stil trying to write a phd thesis on a new definition of disability, ---- despite recovery causing problems.

Writing is what I most want to do, and the thing which recobvery gets in the way of, the idea of writing papers on important subjecvts like this is something of an ambition.
 

garr

Registrant
My abuser was a teenage babysitter. I had been between the ages of 7-10. Anyways, she must have been doing it from the ages of 14-17. As guys, we are expected to have sex at a young age... I mean, what was the point of high school? To get laid. Of course, I couldn't get laid in high school and I told everyone I was a virgin. If I were to have told other people that I had been laid when I was ten with a high school chick, I probably would have gotten accolades for it. How fucked up is that? Here I am, 36 years old, and I can't cope with what happened because I was abused, but it would have been celebrated if I had had the courage to talk. In other words, even if I opened up, I wouldn't have received the help that I needed.

Look at all the kids being abused by their female teachers these days. All I ever hear (and I've been guilty of making the same joke just to fit in) is, "Where were those teachers when I was in school." I want to tell people, "They were busy fucking up someone else's life; count yourself lucky."

Men can't get raped, they can just get lucky. Right?
 

dgoods

Registrant
I recently came across a news story in which a 30-y.o. woman was in court for luring a 14-y.o. boy... what struck me was apparently the woman made a habit of "cruising the movie theatre for teenage boys"... once again disproving the sadly entrenched notion that women cannot be sexual predators. Most readers of the story will probably feel some slight disgust mixed with pity, rather than the fierce outrage that would be the case, were the genders reversed...
 

Tom S.

Registrant
In a word, YES !
And all the public sympathy as well as resources are directed toward female only organizations.

A good case in point would be the MARY KAY LETOURNEAU case where the perp actually was allowed to produce children and actually marry her victim after leaving her family.

Do a search and reams of info return, ALL justifying why this individual chose her actions.

The only resource available to me is female organized and operated.
When a social worker directed me there several years ago, I was told I "Fit the profile of a rapist", and when I questioned the PhD level counselor, I was cursed and told to leave.

Tom S. in Tn.
 
When a social worker directed me there several years ago, I was told I "Fit the profile of a rapist", and when I questioned the PhD level counselor, I was cursed and told to leave.
i feel your pain there. these types of agencies seem to err on the side of caution when they see what they consider to be 'red flags.'

case in point; i am a trained sexual assault advocate for dakota county in minnesota. i moved back to pittsburgh 2 years ago, and offered to volunteer my services as a counselor in the local rape crisis center. because of my history as a survivor, the woman i spoke with was not interested. the incidences of incest and rape victimization occurred during an 8 year span in my second decade over 35 years ago, and i have been active in all facets of recovery ever since!

so much for idiocracy.

all the best,

ron
 

dark empathy

Registrant
Tom and Ron, I'm really sorry to here about your experiences. Though it only had slight baring on my own sexual assault and eventual gang rape by a group of girls when I was 12-15 at secondary school, one of the only advantages of having a visual imparement is that people don't question it too much, ----- though I will admit I'm stil shy about going into details of what happened.

Garr, I'm sorry to here what happened to you, ut in one sense it's good for me to here about another boy abused by a teenaged girl, sinse a lot of the female abuse stories I've heard have been incest related which doesn't explain mine. Pluss, it makes me irritated that people are so certain teenaged girls are always the group requiring protection and sympathy, ---- where as their just as prone to gang mentality and acts of evil as anyone else.

I didn't even use the word rape for what happened to me, ---- let alone gang rape (there were 3-6 girls involved), sinse it never occurred to me that could be possible.
 

garr

Registrant
I have never used the word rape either because that's never what it felt like to me when I was a kid. For me, I had two separate abusers. There was my first one when I think I may have been about four, but I can't really remember much about it at all. I have two visions of that one and they are basically snapshots in my mind that I can hardly see. I was living in Baltimore when that happened. When I was seven, I moved up around Chicago and there I was abused from somewhere around the ages of 7-10. It was a many times repeated offense and my shame comes from having looked forward to it. So, I never once considered it rape. I am only now coming to the realization that it's exactly what it was.

Sadly, I am still unable to really drum up any anger for the perp. Without going into great complexity about a mindset and way of thinking that everyone here understands all too well, I tend to justify her actions by wondering what was done to her to make her the way she was. In my mind, she has to be a victim too. However, I am working to get over that. Somewhere, I feel the sense that I need to be angry at that girl. She took something from me and it was far more than my virginity. She stole my self-esteem and my sense of self worth.
 
Top