I Feel So Tired

I Feel So Tired
B

beccy

Registrant
Hi everyone,

not written much for a while, but needing a bit of support really....

I just feel so tired all the time at the moment.........after all this(read my story) I keep slipping in and out of paranoia that bf is hiding stuff from me still. Even though everything he's told me sounds convincing and he's seeming really happy for the past few days..........he said after everything came out, there didn't seem any point in lying about anything else, so why am I worried?

After my last T session, I suggested to him that maybe we should take an agreed break from sex, as I didn't know when I was coming or going and really need some of the emotional stuff that's missing first (respect/passion/flirting/eye contact etc). I was very sensitive about all of this thinking it was a good idea for both of us. He didn't seem very relieved, but we agreed to go week by week, assessing the situation at the end of each week and talking about everything we'd learned etc

After the first week, we talked (instigated by me) and he said he realised afterwards that it would have been better if he'd suggested the break from sex. I said I just don't understand it, cause he's always had all the control in our sex life and really I thought this was important to us that I said it. In hindsight, I did understand that what he meant was something to do with a feeling of power, but it's like he just doesn't know himself, cause he's had all the power in our relationship! Anyway, other things have become clear this past week, like realising he sexualises all kinds of situations(to get love etc) So, we're still gaining from the situation.

But now it's been over another week and I've not instigated another conversation, and neither has he............I'm not ready for sex yet, so it's not about impatience for that, but I'm tired of making all the effort to maintain any kind of intimacy. Not just about sex; real conversations, anything.........

I told him I'm feeling insecure again last night and he did reassure me. But it's a bit like whenever i express my feelings, he thinks I'm saying how 'wrong' he is. I lose my ground continually.

I'm intelligently thinking I will just have to be patient and wait for him to come to me, but I'm feeling so tired of it all.........I've got two small kids, who I give and give to and at the end of the day, I just want someone to love and cherish me and see me for who I am. He says he wants to be with me forever, and knows I'd marry him if he asked, but he never has. I feel so insecure, like I don't really know who he is/what he wants or anything.

Don't know what I'm asking from all of you really and sorry this is so long, but I feel so alone,

Peace.
 
Beccy,

I think it's a very good thing that you posted this. If you look at it, you are basically saying that you are getting fed up with a situation in which your needs are not being met and you are left to do a lot more than your share of the work in maintaining the relationship.

The intimacy issues are the focal point for these feelings, it seems. After all, things like respect for your feelings, displaying passion, flirting with you, and even just those special eye contacts, are all very important ways of communicating to a partner that they are wanted, needed, and important. As you yourself say:

I just want someone to love and cherish me and see me for who I am.
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But my question to you would be this: Do you ask for what you need? Yes, it's very true that a survivor is struggling along and cannot force himself to heal any faster than what he is doing already. But I think it's important for both partners that the SO should make it clear what she needs and how she feels.

I hope this doesn't sound too much like excuse-making, but I can say from my own experience that at one stage I was so full of confused fears and doubts that I had no idea of the impact my problems were having on my relationship with my wife. I just didn't SEE it. Fortunately, she didn't let me off the hook on this one. She kept telling me how bad things were getting and kept asking what was wrong. I had become non-functional sexually, so of course her first thought was "another woman". Finally one day I just poured it all out to her.

After that, and especially after I got into therapy, it became easier for me to understand this broader picture. Before that I was just entirely caught up in my own misery, self-loathing and horror at the memories I was recovering from my past. It just didn't occur to me that these problems were defining everything that I did and thought in the present.

But enough of that, and back to my question: Do you ask for what you need? I can see from your post that you two do talk about tough issues, and that's good. But I wouldn't hesitate to continue to be the one to initiate the discussions; what's important is how your bf responds. I think he really does need to hear your side of things, what bothers you, and what you need but feel you aren't getting.

Intimacy, for example, may be a huge issue for him and he's just afraid to discuss it. Intimacy as such (that is, not relating to you in particular) may recall in his head a vast array of terrible memories of things the abuser did to him. It's just not possible to be genuinely intimate with someone, no matter how much you love them and care for them, when intimacy calls up thoughts like "This is how Mr.**** liked it."

I'm not offering any of this as excuses for survivors. Quite the opposite. It has been a very healthy thing for both of us when my wife has started in with frank discussions of how things look to her and what she feels she needs and isn't getting. Sometimes the discussion ends with me seeing that I need to make more of an effort, and sometimes it ends with her seeing that on this or that point I am already doing the best I can.

But the real point is honest communication. It's already a good sign when both feel that at least they are being heard and taken seriously.

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry,

so much of what you said was very heplful. Really because we've been together for 11 years, and because of the kind of person I am (quite submissive) and how emotionally blackmailing bf has been, I have become very out of the habit of being able to ask for what I need in a healthy way. So I fell into a pattern of either not thinking to ask, or feeling resentful and then saying everything that's wrong. I'm now in the process of re-learning all types of healthy communication!

We did talk last night about all of this and I do feel something I desperately need is for him to instigate some conversations sometimes! I just feel like I've held us together for years and like I'm with someone who has no interest in wanting to talk to me. Like communication is too hard full stop. But without it there is no relationship, just pretence. I've lost the energy to always be the one to fight for it. And it's just another thing to add to the feeling that he doesn't really want a relationship with me/isn't interested in me etc etc. He was very receptive to what I said and agrees with me that it's also partly to do with the fact that I've put up with it being that way for so long.

It's kind of like I'm learning to put my foot down about all kinds of things. I don't really like doing it, but I know it's necessary.

This site is proving to be such a source of support to me. Just when I'm feeling like it's all too much, I seem to get a bit of strength from here and it keeps me going.

I will write more again soon, thanks again Larry.


positive energy going out to everyone....
 
beccy,

That's great you two had a talk last night, but of course the key isn't just that; it lies in finding healthy and non-confrontational ways to point out what's wrong and what you see as a way forward that will fill your needs. You actually say exactly the right words in your post:

I do feel something I desperately need is for him to instigate some conversations sometimes! I just feel like I've held us together for years and like I'm with someone who has no interest in wanting to talk to me. Like communication is too hard full stop. But without it there is no relationship, just pretence. I've lost the energy to always be the one to fight for it. And it's just another thing to add to the feeling that he doesn't really want a relationship with me/isn't interested in me etc etc.
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Just change all the "he"s and "him"s to "you". ;) He DOES need to sense the emotion behind what you say, as well as hear the facts themselves.

Much love,
Larry
 
beccy,
i have only recently returned here after a long abscence and have yet to get reacquainted with what has gone on since i have been absent, that is, getting to know those who have come here while i have been gone. that sais, what i would like to share are two episodes from my life that i hope will help.

in the past seven years, i have been blessed with two seperate significant others. i say blessed because it is my belief that any such profound shared journey is truly gift. i lost both of those relationships within a four year time span of their own specific choice. the first was my marriage of seven years. the second was my former fiancee, who was known here as lady theo. i did not start remembering my own trauma till three years after the loss of my marriage and one year into my new relationship with lady theo. however, the trauma from that distant past profoundly affected both relationships. lady theo was an adult survivor of CSA. what finally happened there was that my recoverery issues were deeply triggering hers. iin my marriage, it was the scripts of the past that kept interfering with our marriage on my part. something i could not comprehend at the time, only that i knew i was being needy and emotionally desperate at times, but not knowing why. that is my background. it is an intro to things i was dealing with that impacted the two relationships i cherished above life itself...pointiing to my own struggles that is.

the two episodes i want to share are the choices they both made. my former wife had her own issues she was dealing with, and we both felt that we were communicting as best as we could to facilitate the marriage and our devotion to each other. her choice, other than the one to finally leave, was to remaiin silent throughout the last year of our active marriage about the deepest parts of what was bothering her. in other words, it was not until the veery end when she walked out the door that i was fully informed of all that she held withiin.

lady theo was similar in that she witheld the deeper parts of what she was struggling with from me. i knew there were problems and that our seperate recoveries werre impacting our relationship. what i could not know because she never told me until after she left, was the depth my issues were triggering her.

i never knew till it was too late, beccy. i iin no way blame them for their choices or what eventually happened. they did what they had to do in light of what they believed at the time. but, i never knew until it was too late. for four of the past six years i have blamed myself for them leaving because, in the end, they could not come to the one person who loved them most. i felt i let them down in a devestating way.

what larry has sasid, rings so true, and is something you are learning and putting into practice yourself. communication is key. i guess all i am trying to say, in my legendary, verbose way, is that there are reasons why our loved ones have trouble communicating at times and, for me at least, it was that underlying emotional context that was so important, not the communication or its lack. they couldn't come to me because of something they felt, something that hindered a sharing between two who loved each other. had we been able to tap into that and address, i can't help but think things would have turned out differently.

you can only do as much as you can, beccy. relationships are shared journeys, not isolated ones. if, somewhere, somehow, you both can tap into that emotional context of what is inhibiting full communication, then i believe a watershed will happen for both.

sorry for the epic post lol
 
Hi Theo,

that was so moving what you wrote there. I'm so sorry the women you truly loved decided to leave you. You sound like such a lovely man...hope there is someone new for you now, you really sound like you deserve a good partner.

All the things you say about communication, I agree with and yes, in the past, there have been many things i never said, but that's been mainly because I didn't know what they were! I grew up with very dominating parents, who kind of sorted everything out for me, so I never learned to think about what I might need. I've said some of the things I've needed and been quite confused about everything else, if that makes any sense? I also brought baggage to the relationship (doesn't everyone!), as my mum was never really in love with my dad, then left him for a woman. As a child, I think I could read the subtle signs and obviously that had an affect on me in all sorts of ways...eg relating to a man for one. Also, I've always felt a distance between me and her, especially when they split up. I lived with my dad and at a crucial time in my life, had no real emotional guidance/support from a woman. I seemed to walk right into quite an emotionally abusive relationship, then slept around, never really thought about the emotional side of sex/my own needs and seemed to walk into another emotionally relationship (with bf). I was relatively strong and secure in myself at that point, but it didn't take much to knock me, and then I just kind of switched off, cause I felt hurt/rejected etc. I was quite ill really, but didn't even know why, therefore didn't want to talk to family/friends. Basically I think I was ashamed of a lot of my behaviour, thought I was a bad person and couldn't quite put my finger on what was negative about bf's behaviour in general. I have read that's the way emotional abuse is; hard to define, therefore hard to even recognise.

However, I'm a fighter and have always fought for this relationship. I believe in love, it's goodness and wholeness and that's what I live for, so I can't really imagine leaving bf. Just get a bit scared by the enormity of it all sometimes and also tired with two kids and everything.

Thankyou for your post, it wasn't too epic at all, look at the size of mine on average!

Beccy

peace
 
Thanks again Larry,

I think I could have done with your advice years ago!

I constantly watch myself for making sure I'm saying 'I feel', 'I need' etc. I did quite well that night in that department. Things are looking up at the moment.....

take care,

Beccy

peace
 
Beccy,

That's good news! Store away these positive and fulfilling moments in your memory. They will be useful as a frame of reference when things seem to be going all pear-shaped. Recovery is something of an emotional rollercoaster.

Much love,
Larry
 
beccy,
the near overwhelming perceived gulf that looms over what could either be acheived or lost is paralyzing itself at times...i know that well. forgive the poetic licsence of the image lol. next to verbosity, that is my second legendary attribute here :D .

but seriously, that overwhelming sense of what could be...acheived or lost, is paralyzing and so very confusing. there is another image that i have long carried with me that has given peace at times when nothing else could. it presents that enormous gulf of potential. years ago, a theologian i revere as an unparraleled scholar once described the experience of Holy Mystery as the ever expanding horizon. what that came to mean for me is that i look towards the hoprizon and i see something that beckons me ever forward to embrace it. something never acheived in this life, but the point is the ongoing journey itself. that horizon is both the promise and the call to continue.

when there have been those many times i felt i could not go on, staring across the abyss of what i lost, the horizon was still there, calling me forward, even if i had to crawl. the horizon for you would seem to be that which keeps you going, this love you have inside. the promise of that horizon is already within you, beccy. it is something you have already embraced, but the journey continues, and that is what ultimately matters.

i wish you and your boyfriend so much for i know what it is like. as a male, and a survivor, all i can share relative to this is how that pererted guilt we carry hobbles our ability to see what we would be able to otherwise. not that our responsibility is ever removed for those desperate and poor choices, but what drives us is what has already been said here earlier. that guilt from the distant past stamped us in ways we still can't comprehend...and makes us "know" that we are worthy of nothing less than the crap our own adult choices put us into. we sabotage our lives until we can learn to start addressing the guilt that was never ours.

you yourself have come a long way, beccy. i can see that clearly in what little we have shared thus far. he is one lucky brother.
 
Thanks again for your wisdom Larry...it does feel very much like an emotional rollercoaster, but for the most of the time, I'm not scared. I've always believed that life is for living, feeling and moving forward to whatever might come, so now me and bf are living that way, it's got to better than life was before.

Theo, your post made me cry for some reason.....I think to do with the guilt thing you talked about and all your beautiful words about love.....I would say that if you can see that horizon, that means you too can embrace it, in THIS life :) You are entitled to it. you said it, ''the guilt was never ours''. All the choices you talk of regretting, were made out of confusion. I don't know what those choices have been, but I've made a few mistakes myself and I think it's very important to realise, if you've been hurt, it so totally affects the way you view yourself/self esteme/everything. So you begin to believe you want things, which really you don't. Forgive yourself. You are a human being first, a man second. It seems to me, it's society's ridiculous notions of what exactly masculinity is, which makes this twice as hard for men. I look at my perfect little 1 year old boy, and I see in him the same sensitivity and emotional responses as my daughter. Along with other different things too, but the basic feelings are the same.

I hope I made some kind of sense there. You sound like a very intelligent, enlightened person. I wish you all the love you can already see on your horizon.

peace to all
 
beccy,
thank you very much for your words of wisdom and compassion. you made perfect sense :) . it is only recently that i have been able to start seeing the truth you mention within me. losing what i lost was an obvious condemnation of the man i was struggling to be, so it seemed and so thoroughly felt for so long. it is only now i am beginning to see that maybe it was not that way at all. but we are getting off the subject of this thread which was your own journey at this poiint lol. i truly hope things are working better. if there is ever anything i can do or help with, please do not hesitate...i am just a pm away :)
 
Thanks Theo,

It's really quite reassuring what you said, 'if there is ever anything I can do or help with....'

I'll be writing again soon with more issues to talk about lol , but I'm off to watch some telly now and relax a bit, I'm soooooooooooo tired.....


take care,
Beccy


peace
 
THEO, I MISSED YOU, MAN! :D

Back to the topic...

beccy,

One of the most enlightening posts I've ever read here was a survivor talking about how he would "drop out" of conversations with his wife, he would have something to say but as soon as she began sharing her thoughts on the subject he would go quiet and just let her speak her mind. It wasn't that he didn't respect her or care about the topic-- it was his own low self-esteem and lack of confidence that made him willing to just drop it and retreat.

I have noticed that if I make an effort to talk less in conversation, my partner "fills the space" but if I start going on and on, he is more likely to check out of the conversation.

Also, he puts a lot of value in discussions that I used to think of as sort of trivial and not really building intimacy in the relationship. I've learned that it means a lot to him when we talk about video games or the prank he pulled on someone at work, and that when I care about this stuff (instead of half-listening to it, while at the same time wondering why he never wants to have a "real" conversation with me), it makes him feel safe enough for the "real" conversations.

Just some thoughts...

SAR
 
Hi Sar,

thanks for that. It is true isn't it that when someone shows interest in what you talk about, you feel wanted and I think that's what you're saying here? Kind of like when you meet someone you've never met before and you are very attentive to what they're saying. I suppose people can get a bit lazy when they've been with eachother a long time and don't make as much effort. It's interesting that you brought that up, cause that's something I'd decided to make a concerted effort with recently...

Today though, I'm feeling totally insecure again. Don't really know why.....well I do really lol. Just don't think bf really tells me hardly anything of what he really thinks/feels and that's making me nervous. We were intimate the other night and I don't think either of us really enjoyed it. I just can't be myself anymore and I don't think he's being himself either. :( I'm feeling very unsure of our future together and I've got this feeling that really neither of us can give the other what they really want. Think I'm aware of this now, but he won't really know till he's figured himself out more...how long will that be? What do I do now? What about the kids? I don't even feel depressed about it, just s**t scared...

sorry if this is a bit depressing to read, just had to get it all out....will try to write again soon,

Beccy


peace to all of you
 
Originally posted by needanswers:
Oh my Beccy!

My husband and I just had a long discussion and this is exactly what I told him! I feel that he can't be good with ANYONE until he is good with himself.

"he won't really know till he's figured himself out more"
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beccy,

I don't know if this will help you at all, and maybe this is totally off the wall, but I remember as a boy I would dissociate during abuse episodes. That is, I would convince myself that I could "go away" and it wasn't really me that all this stuff was happening to. I actually thought that I could concentrate on a picture or poster on the wall, "go" to it, and then crawl to a corner of the ceiling and curl up in a ball there. Some of my visual memories are in fact seen from that vantage point on the ceiling. I was a desperate kid, and this was my way of coping.

I still have this tendency to "go away" sometimes; my wife even used to wave her hand in front of my face and say "Earth calling Larry". I don't know what triggers me to do that - it just seems to happen. I DO know I also fall into this habit when my T and I get into a sensitive subject. I "go" to a huge tree outside her window.

I don't think this is uncommon, so my thought here would be that when your bf seems not to be paying attention to you he may actually be resorting to an old defensive mechanism. My wife and I discuss this and she lets me know when I do this, and that helps me try to focus.

You also say this:

Just don't think bf really tells me hardly anything of what he really thinks/feels and that's making me nervous.
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I can see your reasoning here: if he really cared about you he would want to share his thoughts and feelings with you. All I can say here is that I care very much for my wife, but for a long time I still found it very difficult to begin talking to her about my abuse issues and how I felt about them. At one level it was all so confusing and overwhelming; I quite genuinely lacked the words. At another level, a survivor new to recovery will usually have major self-esteem problems and may find it impossible to talk, simply out of fear of being rejected or judged. This isn't a matter of not trusting his partner; it's really about not trusting at all, beginning with himself.

I'm not in any way trying to minimize the issues you are talking about. It's just that the broader context sometimes helps to explain what is going on and provide the partner with more information that might be useful to her effort to cope and decide how she herself feels about all this.

Much love,
Larry
 
Thanks again Larry,

I know what you're saying here about rejection, but I feel my bf needs my love more than he actually desires to be with me if that makes any sense. I understand the logic behind this, and I also know I'm a very loving person, so I have continually fullfilled this need.

Last night I asked him what he was thinking after we were intimate the other night; I had been sharing some stuff about my past/my own sexual difficulties and he went very hostile and distant. Last night he told me it was because he was jealous and felt uncomfortable about showing it. I know it's really wrong but this morning I read his notebook and in it, regarding the other night, he said, ''worried about lack of jealousy'' and at the end, ''NO JEALOUSY''. What does this mean?

I know you'll all be disgusted that I did this, but I'm desperate. I really feel that he doesn't want to share what he really feels about things like this in order not to hear me being insecure. How can I trust the things he says to me when he's lied to me for years? And he's still lying, in order not to lose my love, but I feel used. I want to be with someone who wants me, not just someone who's using me for my love. But what can I say about what I read? I feel I can't say anything, cause I was sneaking around.....

I just feel played with constantly. Every time he reassures me in a loving way about things, I feel I've been too much in a long standing habit of believing him/trusting him and how can I know when it's ok for me to actually feel reassured? I feel like a stupid, gullible, manipulated person and I can't even trust my perceptions anymore.

If anyone has any useful insight....

peace
 
following that last post, I would like to say, I feel totally ashamed of myself. Spoe to bf about it all and basically he was just worried about his lack of really 'feeling' those jealous feelings and being able to express them as they happen and he worried that meant he didn't really have them. He didn't read his angry, uncomfortable, ugly feelings as being jealousy and in his last T session he came to the conclusion that he didn't entitle himself to them. I know it was a total breach of privacy what I did and I'm lucky he didn't just swear at me and walk out. I've been in such a mess about everything. I know it's no excuse....I just need to start trusting again what he DOES express to me, cause all of that's been feeling really good. It's just a question of believing it's the truth. Think my T(also homeopath) will be able to help me with this/give me a remedy to help re-balance my state of mind, so I can stop slipping into this horrible insanity.

Am starting to think really I'm lucky to have bf who puts up with all my crap!
will write again soon.

peace to you all
 
Hi Beccy,

Jealously sucks doesn't it? It's horrible to be the one who feels it when we don't want to, but some of us have been given reason to feel that way because of past actions. I had a stab last night and had to really fight with myself to calm down. Was there a reason? No, just a horrible ache in the pit of my stomach brought on my b/fs current distancing of himself and his depression. If we want to stay with our guy, then the jealousy and the distrust has to be overcome. That's super hard and it's not to say that we just blindly accept whatever, but we have to put things in perspective.

As for whether or not he feels jealousy, well, that's a hard one. My b/f claims he does not. He says that even if I chose to be intimate with someone else, he'd understand. He sexualizes everything as a direct result of the abuse. Sex is physically enjoyable to him, but there is little to no emotional connection and it most certainly influences our life together. His beliefs in this particular area are changing but ever so slowly. He trusts me implicitly with his intellectual mind, but his child mind continues to wait for me to betray him in any number of ways. It used to make me walk on eggshells, now I dont because I know damn well I shouldnt and dont have to. Despite his fears, I would never do anything to harm him. I prove that simply by the way I live, so changing anything substantive about me would be false and, I believe, only work the other way.

There are definitely concessions I make for him to ease any discomfort or pain, but never to my own detriment. If I want to do something and he doesnt, I find a friend and off we go. My b/f feels badly that he didnt join me in whatever, but I just assure him that its OK, its what I wanted to do so I did (e.g., concerts, parties with people unfamiliar to him, a night in the city.....)

It sounds like you fight much the same fight as I. When that green headed monster rears its ugly head its almost all consuming. Youre desperate to find out something, anything to either confirm or refute your fears and give you insight to the person you love who is just not capable of completely baring all to you. You convince yourself that snooping is OK because how else will you find out? Been there, done that. Its how I discovered my b/fs acting out. I was torn between horrible guilt and shame for what I did but what I found out may have saved us, so I can justify it. Is that right? No, but I understand why I did it and I understand why you did it. Like I said at the start of this post - it sucks! I know that openness and communication are the key to ending these horrible feelings and behavior, but its hard to get there. I dont snoop anymore, I ask and hope and pray and believe that Im being told the truth. Its one of the hardest things Ive ever done.

Im with you Beccy.

ROCK ON.........Trish
 
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