I don't know how to handle this.

I don't know how to handle this.
********TRIGGERS TRIGGERS TRIGGERS*************


Originally posted by Lady Jude:
it is too easy to satisfy a partner in some way which is safe so that there is no justification from where I sit. Love and Intimacy are the most vitally important needs of human beings after food, shelter, and clothing.

*snip*

I think that I would snuggle up to him in bed and begin to "satisfy" myself and he could choose to be the "passive" or "active" "participant" depending on his "needs and desires"...the opportunity for safe Love and Intimacy... just no pressure on him or on me.. no pressure at all...
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I would be very careful about assuming that masturbating next to someone would be a "safe" or "no pressure" activity for them, even if you weren't asking them to do anything. This could be read as manipulation or subversion of safe, non-sexual contact, if you snuggled up to someone in a way that expressed only closeness and comfort, and superimposed your own desires over that in a way that made the survivor feel that to reject your sexual advance was also to reject your love and companionship.

An awful lot of survivors have heard some variation of that theme as a part of their abuse-- "look how aroused you made me," "don't you trust me," or "you don't have to *do* anything". There's no such thing as "passively" bringing someone into your sexual acts.

Look, you can argue passionately that people need love and intimacy, and that denying sexual contact to someone robs them of part of the love we all seek in a relationship, and I will agree with you-- and count myself as lucky that I'm in a position to agree with you.

But the plain fact is that you can't TELL someone that sex = love and intimacy. For many, many survivors, their first and strongest lesson about sex was that sex is a vehicle for power, self-gratification, and shame. The "love and intimacy" part Does. Not. Compute. The only thing that someone who doesn't get it is going to hear, when you say "without sexual intimacy our relationship is doomed," is "all I want from you is sex." It doesn't make them right... but it's real just the same.
 
Originally posted by SAR:
We don't mind gambling on the chance that things will improve, but we'd like to have an idea of the odds.

What could he do for you to give you some reassurance and acknowledgement about this?
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I'm not sure yet -- frankly, I don't know what he thinks the odds are! It does help to know that he's been in therapy for 6 years, that he spent a good bit of his 20s working on his abuse issues, that he himself is very certain that this is a temporary setback he can overcome. It's also reassuring to know that he did want sex in his marriage (although I do wonder whether the fact that his ex constantly rejected him is what allowed him to feel safe wanting it).

One of the things I want to do is find out from him what feels safe (always or sometimes) and what doesn't. I also think it would help if we could come up with a way for him to let me know he's feeling uncomfortable at the time he's feeling it, instead of hours or days later.

Right now I'm still just thinking about how to discuss all of this with him. I'm learning so much, and I want to let him know, but I also want to give him the space he needs, and...argh.
 
Last night I wrote my bf a little note, basically saying "I've been reading about male survivors and thinking about what I'm learning, and I think I'm starting to 'get it' a little bit. I love you and am proud of your commitment to your recovery. I want you in my life when you're ready." I'm going to drop it in the mail next week with a little gift (something related to a project he's been working on, nothing to do with any of this), and then I'm just going to let go and trust I'll hear from him when he's feeling better. If I do, I do. If I don't, I don't. I'm going to try to have lots of hope but no expectations. Yeah, yeah, easier said than done, but love is about generosity, right?
 
Warning: potential triggers.

I want to be generous. I want to be patient. I want to be kind. It hasn't even been two weeks and I'm having a hard time not contacting him, even though I'm the one who suggested we take a whole month.

I'm afraid if I don't keep reminding him I exist, he'll forget about me. That's my stuff, not his.

I've also been thinking a lot about a childhood friend whose birthday is later this week. She committed suicide last fall -- in part because she started remembering having been repeatedly molested by a family member. I suddenly realized this morning: I'm terrified that my bf will also try to kill himself. I know it's not logical -- he knows what he's up against and he's been working on it for a long time -- but not having any contact with him is making me want to call and say, "Are you okay? Are you SURE you're okay? What can I do to be sure you're okay?" And that is also my stuff, not his.

I have to hold back. I don't want to break my promise to let him wrestle with things on his own for a while. But oh, how my own buttons are being pushed.
 
Originally posted by EBrook:
"Are you okay? Are you SURE you're okay? What can I do to be sure you're okay?" And that is also my stuff, not his.
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HAHAHA, (Sorry if the laugh is inappropriate & I hope you know it comes from my heart and is not negative)

My mom killed her self, and when my wife went into her "flatspin out to sea" at Easter I became just totally neurotic.

She has a diary on our computer and while I have *not* read it I was sorely tempted to zip it up and send it to her therapist (that would likely have been almost as big a violation of trust as if I had read it myself). I never did, and I told her when she was "back" about my thoughts and apologized.

The whole powerlessness thing is a trip. I am here for her, and her for me, but the not knowing is a huge drain on energy. I guess if we had the possibility to just download new software we would be less human.
 
I had to smile myself at "Are you SURE you're okay" just because it is so familiar.

EBrook, you have permission to have "your own stuff" here. And it's good that you know it's your stuff and not his, but please don't minimize it or make it less legitimate than "his stuff" (not that you say you're doing that, but it is a trap I think many partners fall into).

I'm sure that you're struggling both with fear that he'll hurt himself, and also with a desire for his support and comfort at what must be a difficult time for you because of your friend's birthday.

I think the situation you're in highlights some real truth and fear about relationships-- some that we can gloss over most of the time, when we're feeling close to our partners, or things are going well, or when things are going badly but in familiar ways. It's easy at those times to feel like the relationship is under our control, that our power and importance in someone else's life is set in stone. And it's easy in difficult situations like yours to feel the total opposite:
that we don't exist to the people we love, that we are powerless to influence people, or that those people have incredible power over us.

Really there's a truth in between that's difficult for us all to get at: No one can control another's thoughts and motivations, or ever be 100% sure of them, but we can gain control of ourselves more or less, and our actions do have consequences even when they don't affect our lack of control.

Medic's story is great for this. He felt powerless because he didn't know, and couldn't control, what his wife would do, and he was understandably concerned. But he *was* able to take control of himself and his fears, trust himself and his wife, avoid acting in a way that would have damaged trust, and support her in an honest way that reinforces their being there for each other. (Medic, you don't say if or how this experience, and sharing it with your wife, influenced your own state of mind or your relationship-- but if you don't mind, I'd be interested in hearing it-- and welcome to the F&F forum, too).
 
Of course, the fact that we've only known each other since October also plays a part in this. We don't have a major commitment. We don't live together. It's only been a few months since we agreed to be exclusive! So a big part of my confusion is simply this: Do I stay or do I go? Am I willing to gamble on his recovery, or is it just too big a bet to place this early in the relationship? I don't know, and I don't know how to figure it out. And not knowing is hard.
 
Originally posted by SAR:
(Medic, you don't say if or how this experience, and sharing it with your wife, influenced your own state of mind or your relationship-- but if you don't mind, I'd be interested in hearing it-- and welcome to the F&F forum, too). [/QB]
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The jury is still out.... The state of mind question is answered by "I have decided that I will offer her access to my journals and this site if she wants".

I think it works well for me, she doesn't have to read the stream of consciousness if she doesn't want to, and I am so totally sick of secrets.
 
Oh Medic,
Your statement of saying that you are so sick of secrets.... ME TOO!!
One thing that has helped hubby & I is that I read the forum to him (he has problems reading so wont) & this allows for us to have "verbal" communication.
Hubby kept so many secrets for so many years and I am still finding out secrets -- they hurt just as if they are as "fresh" as the first day he told them. He has done a good job in gaining the ability to "give me time to process" the "new" info for me...
Hubby also wont come onto the puter without me being in the room as it is a "temptation" to "use his drug of choice" (porn) -- slowly we are building trust again in our relationship.
But THANK YOU for saying what I have so often wanted to SCREAM at the top of my frustrated lungs!
Peace for Us All, Sammy
 
Originally posted by EBrook:
So a big part of my confusion is simply this: Do I stay or do I go? Am I willing to gamble on his recovery, or is it just too big a bet to place this early in the relationship? I don't know, and I don't know how to figure it out. And not knowing is hard.
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As over used and Disney-fied as it might be, you have to be True to your Heart.

In spite of everything that has happened and continues happening to me and mine I try to be optomistic.
Work Like You Don't Need The Money, Love Like You've Never Been Hurt, and Dance Like No One Is Watching
 
Originally posted by SAR:
No one can control another's thoughts and motivations, or ever be 100% sure of them, but we can gain control of ourselves more or less, and our actions do have consequences even when they don't affect our lack of control.
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Or as I once read in a very wise book about relationships, "You have enormous control over what you do, but none over what you do does."
 
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