I don't know how to handle this.

I don't know how to handle this.
E

EBrook

Registrant
I knew when I started dating my boyfriend, about 8 months ago, that he was going through a divorce. I learned pretty early on that he was also a survivor and had been in recovery for more than a decade. The stress of his divorce has triggered a bunch of survivor stuff and caused some sexual problems, but we've become incredibly close emotionally and we both assumed his libido would recover as he came out the other side of the divorce.

Unfortunately, some ugly things have happened during the divorce, and now he's started spinning out. He's dissociating during any even remotely sexual contact, to the point where he told me last week that right now he can't kiss me or even sleep in the same bed. He's depressed, angry, overwhelmed, basically scraping the bottom of the emotional barrel, and on top of all that, he feels guilty about not being a "good boyfriend." So he's asked me to put the relationship on hold for a while -- not see each other at all, only email each other occasionally -- until he starts feeling more stable.

I don't know how long that will take him or if it will ever happen, so I'm going to try to date other people. We both agree this is the only way our relationship has any chance of surviving, and that if we really have something worth saving, we'll find our way back to each other, as cliched as that sounds.

I want him to have the space he needs to deal with all of this without having to worry about taking care of my feelings. But I feel like I'm abandoning him. I could use some feedback.
 
It is tough. I am a survivor myself. Kept it
deep in the back of my mind, forgotten for years.
I never knew why I couln't have a stable relatioship
or why I was always angry and depressed.
When I finally "rediscovered" what had hapened to
me I was already 38. My life was an emotional
wreck.
I went to therapy, group therapy read books on
the subject. I wanted help.

The first thing he has to realize is that it is
NOT HIS FAULT. He has to admit he needs help.
He has to talk, get it out. If not, it will get
worst, believe me. I've been there.

I would recommend he (and you) read the book:
"Home Coming: Reclaiming and Championing
your inner child" by John Bradshaw.

Through it he will discover the why's and how's
to recover and protect the little person inside
of him that was hurt and his wounds don't heal.

He is not alone. Make him see that.
 
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), none of this is new to him. He's been in recovery from the abuse for a long time. He sees a therapist every week and says it's really helpful. Apparently he was in pretty good shape for several years, but now the divorce stuff has knocked him for a loop -- I guess I'd call it a relapse.
 
I'm trying to put the pieces together here in hopes that I'll get a few more responses. Some of these things might be triggers.

My bf has told me that by the end of his marriage, he wanted sex, but his wife refused to touch him -- at all, not just sexually. And this went on for more than a year. When he first told me about this, he said he wasn't willing to settle for a sexless relationship ever again, but that part of our relationship has moved very slowly other than talking about it, and now he's the one avoiding sex. It feels like he's doing to me what his ex did to him, but I can't say that to him -- it will only reinforce his fears of being a "bad boyfriend."

Knowing his history, I've always let him be the one to initiate sex. I thought he was finally relaxing and trusting me, but now he's telling me he only ever did it because he felt I expected it, that he was lying when he said he was enjoying it, that he always felt terrible afterwards. How am I supposed to react to that? I never did anything he didn't ask me to do, and he always seemed so appreciative. Now I feel ashamed and dirty, as if I really was forcing him to do something against his will, without knowing that's what I was doing.

This is an amazing discussion board and I've learned a lot from reading old posts. I hope I can keep learning as I try to decide what to do next.
 
Hi, EBrook...

I'm new here and I have no answers for you, but I wanted to offer some support in the fact that I have read your posts and I feel how hurt and confused you are and how I would feel the same ways under these circumstances. I, like you, am hoping that someone will add some helpful insight so that you and I both can find some answers to this puzzling situation.

Please hang in there and just try to be patient and wait for some wisdom to come your way from the wonderful people on this board. I am here for knowledge and insight myself and am very grateful to have this valuable resource for guidance.

Best wishes and support from me to you...
 
Being not in a sexual relationship with my male survivor friend, I dont know if I am entitled to give you advices on your situation. So please consider that this is only my humble opinion.

I would like to remark you that trust is the greatest issue for a survivor (male or female doesnt matter for this particular topic). I guess that the fact that your boyfriend has confessed you his problems with sex is a HUGE demonstration of trust in you. Its enough difficult for a survivor to disclose the abuse in itself, but talking openly about the consequences of the experience, and especially in the sex area, is going even beyond to me. It doesnt matter that your boyfriend has talked to you on the basis of a deep reflection or out of a sudden irrational need: hes done it, his words cannot be withdrawn now, and you now know the truth. He evidently wanted you to know. Actually I would say that he has placed a big trust in you, maybe with the subconscious aim to test you and see what you are going to do with the information.

I understand your feelings of shame, betrayal and confusion. They are absolutely normal and human. But please try to see things from his side. To hide true feelings under a mask of everythings fine is the natural way for survivors to survive. Once the healing process starts, though, it comes the moment when survivors decide to risk and reveal their own true feelings to somebody. In most cases, that somebody is a special person they decide it worth trusting. Often its the person they love most. In this latter case, explaining painful truths like faking sexual enjoyment or similar could maybe be a way to try to ask silently for a chance to rebuild a new relationship based on openness. Maybe.

But I believe that its necessary that the partner takes care of her/himself too. Its no good to stay in a relationship when one doesnt feel for. Feelings are the most precious thing for everybody, not only survivors. In my opinion, realising a painful truth is in the end better than telling lies to ourselves. Only you can know if and how much you love him and are available to stay at his side even if likely changing previous patterns in your relationship. Only you can know yourself enough to decide if you feel for holding on and walk the likely very long path of recovery alongside with the male survivor in your life or not. Its crucial that you are true to yourself, whatever your decision could be. Survivors need to re-learn about healthy boundaries, and be reassured that trust and truth are possible realities. I believe that your honesty, whatever your decision (stay or leave) will be, would be rewarding for both of you in the long run.

One last thing about recovery. Its a personal pattern, and it can have the most different ways to reach its goal for each survivor. Surely there are common aspects (there are some excellent books on the matter you can find them on the resource section of this site) but each survivor has his/her own way to go. If your boyfriend tells you that he is getting better with the therapy he is undertaking, please believe him. He only can know what is happening in his soul. Its so difficult to be in therapy, as its another matter of placing trust in somebody else. We survivors would never do that giant effort if we dont feel it worth. Its normal too that benefits can sometime have a strange path to reach the surface though. Little inputs, life events, news at TV, books read there are thousands of factors which can make the (totally personal) difference and be the key to the survivor to find an answer or the inner power to change.

Take care,
Abby
 
Abby...

I cannot tell you how grateful I am for your extremely wise and kind words. I feel like you are speaking directly to me and answering questions I have not even known how to ask or who to ask.

In my case, I have never, not even for one nanosecond, doubted my feelings for my man or my total commitment to him. I have told him many times that I would follow him into Hell if he needed to take us there, and I meant it then and I mean it now... and I always will mean it. But, I have not understood the rationale behind his behaviors so I have not been able to figure out if there will even be a "long path of recovery" to share with him. If there is one, anyone who is willing to bet their life on my being there with him for the full lifelong journey would certainly never have to worry about losing their bet. He's been trying to shake me lose for over four years and I've been sticking like Superglue.. and I don't think there is any solvent for that stuff...

Thanks to your generous and knowledgeable words, I feel so very encouraged and kind of even jubilant now..like someone just turned on a bright light for me to follow... Hope springs eternal when you ride the Pollyanna Pony, as I do.... :-)

Again, thank you so much.
 
Thank you, Abby.

Right now, I'm trying to think of giving him a break from the relationship as a gift I can offer him, a way to show I'm honoring his boundaries without anger. But damn, I miss him.

I don't want to fall into the trap of thinking that the only way to prove my love is to be a doormat. I've done that with other men in the past. I need to be able to balance my love for him with my love for myself. And what I know for sure is that I'm not willing to set my own needs aside completely and permanently just to be in a relationship -- with him or with anyone. I need to have some sense that there will be room for both of us in the relationship, maybe not right now, but in the long run.
 
Ebrook...

I think that there is no denying the fact that mature relationship is an equal partnership with the goals of mutual fulfillment of needs and balance and harmony. Without this model to build and maintain, we end up in "win-lose" situations and if one is a loser, then both are and there can never be balance and harmony and no hope exists for mutual fulfillment of needs. In that case, the relationship fails.

I feel that if one person is willing to pull more than their fair share of the load when it is necessary so that their partner can take a break when needed, that is a healthy, cooperative, and supportive partnership. But if that ends up being the permanent model of the relationship all the time, then the needs of one partner become unimportant and their incentive to stay in the relationship is lost. When that happens, the other partner needs to have an honest discussion with themselves and ask if they are really willing to invest what is necessary to achieve happiness. If they are not willing to cooperate and invest their energy into pulling the wagon equally to meet the common goals, then the "relationship" is only an illusion in the first place. It's just like a business partnership, as far as I am concerned. If one partner invests all the money and the sweat equity and the other partner takes all the proceeds, how long can the business last before there is a "closed" sign above the door?

Just my thoughts from my personal and professional experiences....

Good luck. Love is a very powerful driving force.. but sometimes "tough love" is the only honest direction to take and holds the only honest chance of success.. It takes a lot of guts, but you will know in a hurry if it has worked when you look over to your right to see if that other horse is pulling with you or just lying on the ground and letting you pull the wagon and him, too..
 
Originally posted by EBrook:
Thank you, Abby.

Right now, I'm trying to think of giving him a break from the relationship as a gift I can offer him, a way to show I'm honoring his boundaries without anger. But damn, I miss him.

I don't want to fall into the trap of thinking that the only way to prove my love is to be a doormat. I've done that with other men in the past. I need to be able to balance my love for him with my love for myself. And what I know for sure is that I'm not willing to set my own needs aside completely and permanently just to be in a relationship -- with him or with anyone. I need to have some sense that there will be room for both of us in the relationship, maybe not right now, but in the long run.
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I guess I have learned that one of the way of taking care of myself means to protect who I am in THAT moment, to be in touch with my real feelings I am living in a certain situation or event. Besides being the best way to respect myself, it would allow me also to not have desperate regrets for my own decisions even if I could realise later I was nevertheless wrong.

I would anyway dare to suggest you to always consider that you are dealing with a partner who is a male survivor. Its possible that some of his attitudes are influenced by his SA. Sometime survivors apply false logics to their relationships (classical one: its better for her to be away from me, I dont deserve her because I am worthless). I am not affirming that this is the case of your partner, I am only suggesting that it could exist a possibility that his request to split is due from his side not from a true reasoned desire, but from a typical pull attitude which many survivors apply soon after they experience moments of deep closeness with somebody they care for.

Only you know and have direct contacts with your boyfriend anyway, so theres nobody else than you who can have the chance to feel whats going on between the both of you and maybe try in case to discuss with him openly about your situation.
 
Originally posted by Lady Jude:


Thanks to your generous and knowledgeable words, I feel so very encouraged and kind of even jubilant now..like someone just turned on a bright light for me to follow... Hope springs eternal when you ride the Pollyanna Pony, as I do.... :-)

Again, thank you so much.
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Thank you for your kind words. I am glad if I have been able to give you hope. I wish you could cherish these feelings during the possible hard times of the emotional rollercoaster which are sometime part of being in a relationship with a survivor.
 
Thanks, Abby..

I'm in a hurry to get to work so I have to be brief, but I wanted to thank you for your encouragement. I have already been on that "rollercoaster" for the last four plus years and I know I can handle it for as long as it lasts. It's not a boring ride,that's for sure,and it keeps me sharp....and, believe me, he's worth it. totally!

Have a great day. I'll be back later...

Thanks again. ;-)
 
Hi Guize and Welcome,

I caught this thread and became very interested as I have been "surviving with" my partner for what feels like my whole life. I too am a survivor, knew he was a survivor before we married, dealt with "most" of my issues & only in the past 3 yrs have we begun to "deal with" his issues.
(sorry that had to be the longest sentence in the world)

Anyway I would like to say that perhaps some things to consider in a relationship with ANY survivor of SA are the ups and downs of healing over the years. Much like financial problems, family problems, the roller coaster of surviving with a survivor is the fastest, craziest way to lose ones self.

I can identify currently with the lack of sexual activity in a relationship. It is not completely by either of our choices. We do have some other extenuating (sp) factors. He is working full time & in school full time and I have several serious health problems. Then we have our "own demons" from our SA to deal with also.

I can only speak from my "gut" here as I have no real knowledge - we (hubby & I)just are not speaking about our lack of sexual contact. Partly I know he has been "re - traumatized" by the fact that I have had 2 heart attacks that required 911 during our sexual contact. Yea, it CAN put a damper on the mood.

However, right now I am angry with him also , angry that he has placed a higher priority on his personal goals than on what is left of our relationship. I too am now in a position that I am fighting my own "inner demons" of the effects of my SA & his sex offense & infidelity.

Those demons that your partners may be facing may be some things that I & my own partner have talked about in the past, but cannot bring our selves to discuss them right now.

As I said my own anger at him, I have been feeling very discounted and non important as he is able to go out into the world and "live life", as I am stuck in these walls wanting to badly to be able to "just go back to my old life" before disability.

I am fighting nightmares of his being arrested on a sex offense.
I am fighting gross and disgusting nightmares of my own abuse.
I am fighting my own "distorted disgusting fantasys" brought about by my own abuse.
I am fighting nightmares of "HIS" abuse.
I am dealing with the "physical effects" in his sleep due to his own nightmares.

We will be married 18 yrs the end of this month. Our marriage has been one damn up and down after another. When Hubby disclosed his "sex addiction" he entered a support group for sex addicts. The very first thing he told me is that he & other "addicts" are asked to NOT have any sexual contact for the first 30 days. I understood this as likening it to AA or other 12 step programs. Then AFTER the first 30 days of sobriety he was allowed to have consensual sex with his partner. (his addiction drug of choice was porn & masturbation) - I myself still struggle with masturbation to the gory fantasys.

I have been having a hard time dealing with even being able to "tell him" yet again what has been going on in my head, and in my nightmares.

I dont have any studies or "real knowledge" behind my supposing here, but I suspect that even the "healthiest" of relationships couples struggle to be able to discuss their sexual problems, or wants & desires.

Thinking back just coming up with what we call our "safe rules" for us to have sexual contact took many months, and still often need some changing and morphing to adjust to our current situations.

I have gone thru phases of feeling guilty for wanting sexual contact, anger for him having "power" to say no, to feelings of intense joy and love when we have been "successful". So many feelings and phases I am not able to list them all.

I dont know if the "phases" ever change completely. I know the effects CAN lessen, at least it has in our case. BUT, the effects have ALWAYS been a large part of our life.

Part of me is glad that my spouse can understand the jumping from a dead sleep to end up in a ball in the corner of a room. The other part feels over whelming guilt to "re traumatize" him all over again. I know he must certainly feel the short moments of anger at being woken having to "deal with this shit all over again", just as I have thought those very thoughts. I also know, that he surely must feel grateful and thankful as I have when brought back from those ugly flashbacks with safe words and arms and to be able to freely cry WITH each other and FOR each other.

The only "breaks" we've had from sex that I can name right now are the times when he "with held" due to his sex addiction (punished himself thereby punishing me), the time when after a long stint in a mental health ward I "declared" I was NOT partaking of sex until "I" felt ready. And lastly when we were recently separated legally living apart for about 3 years.

I have no answers unless the answer is acceptance and patience. Without those two characteristics I dont believe that he and I would be even attempting to heal our relationship and work forward.

My sex drive has always been 'stronger' than his. Or so it seemed, until I found out about his struggling with the sex addiction.

To this day I know that part of him struggles about whether to have sexual contact with me BECAUSE it "triggers" his sex addiction.

I know I have heard repeatedly about "loving this man" & often with a whole heart. Yet it takes so much more than love with a whole heart, or patience or medications, or understanding and yet even acceptance.

Taking care of our selves as partners of SA survivors is a monumental task. One I have been struggling with and my own spouse has for so long. I dont have any real words of wisdom other than more questions.

What do you want in your life? How do you want to live your life? What do you NEED to be happy in your life? What are your plans should you become suddenly disabled? Suddenly rich in finances? Can you support him / her through dealing with extended family? Are you willing and capable to reach out for professional help? Can or are you able to tough love your self as well as your partner? Could you spend an entire lifetime in a relationship with only the abilty to sexually satisfy yourself WITHOUT participation from your partner?

Those are only a few questions that come of this.
I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. Or to profess that my whole relationship has somehow been a sham or full of bull. How could EITHER or ANY of us have known? Even if we did (in our case we did) how in the hell could we have ever been prepared for the unexpected effects & affects of our SA issues.

There is knowledge available now, more help available. But then our 1st woman on the Supreme Court was ONLY placed a mere 24 yrs ago.

Knowledge comes slowly, as do changes. Some changes come quickly, and yet relationships even with perfection in the beginning morph into different beings than what they began with.

Ask yourself, can you take care of yourself FOR your self no matter WHAT life throws your way. ASK yourself ARE you going to be & become strong enough to not only hold yourself together, but a partner and perhaps children that may come of the union. AND can you protect yourself from extended family and friends. Can you protect yourself and your partner, perhaps even your children from those same extended family and friends when needed. (Some will be supportive others will attempt sabotage & others will just be plain ignorant of the intensity of the situation/s).

I am sure that thru my partner and I's work, WE can survive. Maybe not in the healthiest or best way or in some text book perfection. BUT, I just try each day that I can place both my feet on the floor to face the day and be as HUMAN and as KIND as I can be. (sometimes it actually works)

I know our partners NEED to RETAKE control of their LIVES and BODIES. AND, we as partners must do the same for ourselves. Finding a happy medium surely must be "just life being the roller coaster" it has always been meant to be.

Much Peace,
Sammy
 
Originally posted by Abby:
its better for her to be away from me, I dont deserve her because I am worthless
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Yeah, I suspect that's going on here a little bit -- I've done that myself sometimes.

I guess I keep coming back to the idea that everyone has baggage. Some people have little carry-ons, others have the whole matched set, but I'm never going to find anyone who's perfectly well-adjusted and is willing to let me be the only one with needs and issues and problems. So I may as well try to stick with this man who has troubles of his own, but at least is willing to acknowledge them, work on them, and tell me he wants to overcome them so we can try to be together. He can't give me any guarantees, but when you get right down to it, who can?

And if I can't handle it, I have to remember I always have the option of walking away. That's a tough one for me.
 
Hi, Ebrook...

I'm at work during lunch hour so this has to be fast, but I wanted to applaud and support your positive insight...

I think a person could spend their entire life trying to catch the allusive butterfly of "perfection" and then when they were breathing their last, it would be with the expressed regret that they didn't just simply follow their heart...

I gave in a long time ago to the fact that my heart points the way for me and then my intuition gives me the "go ahead"... Then I'm off and running with full confidence...and I never look back. I find it a kind of "fail-proof" way to go.. for me, anyway. I have found that my Intuition is flawless in guiding me and if I get no "red flags," "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!!!" I never stop regarding Life as an exciting Adventure... the more exciting, the better! Bring it on!!! :-)

Later...
 
Hi, Wifey1...

I am very touched by your post and I've spent the afternoon thinking what I would do in your situation. I can't be you in your situation, but I can see me in your situation and I had some ideas which I would like to share in case there is some merit to them.

I am in love with a man who has suffered the crimes of CSA and I hope to marry him. I am here trying to learn everything I can so that I can be the best possible support for him and so that we can have the best possible, and happiest relationship. I have issues of SA, also, which I have been trying for some time to address. They are what I might call "passive" issues in as much as my sexual experience is extremely limited for an adult female, but it has all been based on very painful rejections to the extent that I have yet to know who I am as a partner in intimacy and it is only that I trust "Don" so much that I am willing to open the gates of intimacy with him to my most vulnerable, fragile place. I know that I may get hurt, but I also know that the relationship will not take place unless we both commit equally to work together to find healing for both of us.. and maybe not develop a perfect relationship, but one that we will create together which will be "win-win" to bring us both satisfaction. What form that will take and what compromises and considerations will be involved, I have no way of knowing at this point. However, I trust him totally and I am fully committed, so I am ready to just fly on blind faith and my own hopes and dreams and optimism..

That having been said, I am here to learn but, but it's a matter of sharing for me.. so while I am asking for knowledge and support, I wish to offer the same in return because we also have a relationship and it is very precious to us, as well.

I will try to figure out how to use this quote system here and then try to give as briefly as I can what suggestions come from me seeing myself in these situations: (Nope.. it didn't work.)

________________________________________________

"Partly I know he has been "re - traumatized" by the fact that I have had 2 heart attacks that required 911 during our sexual contact. Yea, it CAN put a damper on the mood."
________________________________________________

This would scare the heck out of anyone. I can fully understand and empathize. :-(

________________________________________________
I am angry with him also , angry that he has placed a higher priority on his personal goals than on what is left of our relationship. ...... I have been feeling very discounted and non important....
_________________________________________________

Writing things down always helps me sort and find strategies. Here is what I would do:

1. On a piece of paper, I would make three columns. One I would title "My Needs." One I would title "Your Needs." The third I would title "Your Comments."

2. I would list all my needs. Then I would list the needs which I think he has.

3. Then I would give him a blank piece of paper like mine with the three columns and ask him to list his needs and what he thinks mine are.

4. Then, after they are both filled out, I would ask him to exchange with me and then we would probably be very surprised to find out how much guessing we have done and just how many needs we are each not fulfilling. In the "Comments" column, I would read his comments on how well or poorly I had "guessed" his needs and then hopefully he would correct my mistakes. And I would do the same with his list.

5. I would think that this would be a good way to just pitch all the complex mess we had gotten ourselves into and try to start all over again, this time with Truth and Love. I think that when both partners have their needs fulfilled there is a lot more happiness and much less complexity and confusion.. and certainly much less "acting out."

I have done this before and it really does work.

______________________________________________
"I dont have any studies or "real knowledge" behind my supposing here, but I suspect that even the "healthiest" of relationships couples struggle to be able to discuss their sexual problems, or wants & desires."
________________________________________________

Not only do I agree with you on a personal level, but I have to say that I have a good friend who is a licensed "Sex Therapist" and she is newly married and way too embarrassed to discuss sex, and her "wants and desires" with her new husband. I knew that would be a problem for me, too, as I can be "clinical" with a stranger, but I think the words would stick in my throat and never be able to come out with my partner. However, I have thought about it so much that I think I have come up with a solution and I will be very happy to share it with you.

I have a best girlfriend who I normally could discuss anything but, but not really something as intimate as sex.. especially MY sexuality. I have tried it and it was devastating to me, so I threw that away as any kind of idea. However, when I was writing essays in school, there was always the instruction to "write to a sympathetic audience." That gave me the idea to write to her, but not to really send them to her. Hmmm... I thought... I could have "Don" set up an email account which would be in her name and I could set up an email account which would be in the name of someone he might almost be able to speak of his deepest sexual wants and desires.. or maybe to correct my mistakes or guide me a bit, as I could do for him, and I could speak my heart and soul of desires to my "trusted best girlfriend," but he would really be getting my emails and reading them.. and he could write the same things to his "trusted best guy friend," but they would be mailed to me and I would be reading them. Neither of us ever would have to acknowledge those letters but we could talk of all kinds of things, sexual and otherwise... Good idea huh? I have already done something very similar and it helps me sort and process my feelings and thoughts and find solutions to problems. I think if both partners use this system, it could create about the best and most effective communication system ever.. and still be as safe as possible.. and also preserve each partner's dignity, pride, and ego. And I think it would solve about all the problems anyone could even think of. This is what I hope I could work out with Don if we ever do get married. I know it's pretty unconventional and definitely "outside the box," but that would pretty well describe both of us anyway. You can borrow my idea if you like.. I think it's pretty good, myself. ;-)

__________________________________________________
"I have gone thru phases of feeling guilty for wanting sexual contact, anger for him having "power" to say no, to feelings of intense joy and love when we have been "successful". So many feelings and phases I am not able to list them all."
_________________________________________________

Personally I believe that one partner shutting the other one out of intimacy for any reason is inexcusable. This is pretty close to what I mean in my signature line below my name. I cannot even imagine ever denying my man sexual access to me for any reason and it is too easy to satisfy a partner in some way which is safe so that there is no justification from where I sit. Love and Intimacy are the most vitally important needs of human beings after food, shelter, and clothing. I believe that is the benefit of partnership and the minute one person using the denial of access to intimacy as a weapon, the relationship is doomed. If they are going to try to save the relationship, they need to each ask themselves what they want and need and be so truthful that they see that if they deny their partner access to intimacy, they are also falling on their own sword. I truly believe that what we call "addiction" is really the substance or behavior which we use to comfort ourselves when we do not have Love and Intimacy in our lives. I would be discussing this with my partner in conjunction with the lists of needs which I mentioned above. Maybe his "sex addiction" is really his deep need for Love and Intimacy and just maybe he has denied himself that fulfillment because of the SA and the lies which have told him that he does not deserve them.. But human beings still need them and we will search until we find something to fill that void. For me, it's usually sweets.. most usually Krispy Kreme donuts.

________________________________________________
" My sex drive has always been 'stronger' than his. Or so it seemed, until I found out about his struggling with the sex addiction.

To this day I know that part of him struggles about whether to have sexual contact with me BECAUSE it "triggers" his sex addiction."
_______________________________________________

Again, I am me, not you, putting myself into your situation and trying to think what I would do. In this situation, I would be thinking that it's really a need for "Love and Intimacy" which is causing the "addiction." I would try to encourage holding and touching in non-sexual, non-threatening ways and trying to establish very safe feelings of affection and secure intimacy and then just let sex drift in naturally or not.. and eventually, I think it will happen as "Nature Takes its Course." I might be over-simplifying, but that's what I would see myself doing. That cuddling and closeness would have a healing effect on me, I am sure.

_________________________________________________
"Could you spend an entire lifetime in a relationship with only the abilty to sexually satisfy yourself WITHOUT participation from your partner?"
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I can answer all the questions you posed in the positive and optimistic tone.. but, then, I have kind of a "Wonder Woman" attitude about such matters... IF I have a partner who will "dance" as powerfully as I can dance in the "relationship dance." I would not have a partner who would not stay on the dance floor with me as long as the music was playing so I am extremely confident that for each question there is a positive answer and for each problem, a "win-win" solution. Once when I was in the dental chair, I saw an amazing poster on the wall and I begged the dentist to let me have it. He did and it's been my life motto ever since. It's two skiers who are so tiny that they look like dots within the most gigantic snow-laden and impossible mountain anyone could imagine. There seems no way down from that mountain no matter which way you look. The caption reads: "Find a way or make a way." That motto has served me well no matter what "impossible" problem seems to have been flung at me my good old "Murphy." It gives me boundless faith in myself and that's a pretty good start to solving a problem.

You asked: "Could you spend an entire lifetime in a relationship with only the abilty to sexually satisfy yourself WITHOUT participation from your partner?"

No, I cannot even imagine myself enduring that... but using my old motto, I also see that I could "make a way." I think that I would snuggle up to him in bed and begin to "satisfy" myself and he could choose to be the "passive" or "active" "participant" depending on his "needs and desires"...the opportunity for safe Love and Intimacy... just no pressure on him or on me.. no pressure at all... Know what I mean, Vern?

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" Ask yourself, can you take care of yourself FOR your self no matter WHAT life throws your way. ASK yourself ARE you going to be & become strong enough to not only hold yourself together, but a partner and perhaps children that may come of the union. AND can you protect yourself from extended family and friends. Can you protect yourself and your partner, perhaps even your children from those same extended family and friends when needed. (Some will be supportive others will attempt sabotage & others will just be plain ignorant of the intensity of the situation/s)."
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I can answer those questions very easily... all in the positive. I have had a long time to consider them and a very long "education" from life to have the "Ph L" degree which my best girlfriend conferred on me years ago. I am more proud of that than anything I have ever accomplished, ever. It's "Philosopher of Life" and I have worked very hard to be as prepared as I am and I believe so strongly in me that there are only three things I can think of that I would not be willing to cope with in a mate: Alcoholism, Drug Abuse, and Infidelity. Those are self-destructive crimes against Life itself. We all have challenges in Life and as long as my mate is willing to fight for a better life, I will fight with him and feel totally confident that we will win. I guess that I have some very unusual attitudes. I believe that when I find a fear and look at it long enough to recognize it as "irrational," it shines the light on the road I am supposed to take to success and happiness. The person who runs and hides never gets their foot onto the path. The one who slays the irrational fear is on their way to a grand adventure.. and if it is shared, they will have a wonderful time, despite the obstacles.. They will have each other and that will make it wonderful. That's what I believe.

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" I know our partners NEED to RETAKE control of their LIVES and BODIES. AND, we as partners must do the same for ourselves. Finding a happy medium surely must be "just life being the roller coaster" it has always been meant to be."
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I have spent the last four plus years on a "roller coaster." I have to admit that I have screamed and cried on occasion, but it's only been out of frustration.. But, it has not been without its thrills. And those thrills really let you know that you are alive.. and being alive is really good!

I know this has been very long, but the the issues have been very complex. The simple version, I believe, is that Love and Intimacy are missing from both your lives and you both need to have them and work toward acquiring them and then I think most, if not all, of your problems will begin to melt away. I have never met anyone who was unhappy when their needs were fully met.. or even nearly fully met. We all need "Love and Intimacy." If we can find them, we can settle down and just feel like satisfied human beings doing what human beings like to do the best... even when we have been victimized by monsters. In that case, we need Love and Intimacy more.. I think as SA or CSA victims we/they trust it less, but need it more.. and we can have it if we believe in ourselves because when you know that you won't really sink or self-destruct, you can risk trusting a partner who can help you find Love and Intimacy and that is the key to the "win-win" solution from where I sit... This kind of Healing requires partnership.

Sorry to be so impassioned and so wordy... Hope this can be helpful.

Good luck to all of us.
 
Originally posted by Lady Jude:

Personally I believe that one partner shutting the other one out of intimacy for any reason is inexcusable. ... I cannot even imagine ever denying my man sexual access to me for any reason and it is too easy to satisfy a partner in some way which is safe so that there is no justification from where I sit.
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Wow, reading that makes me really uncomfortable. To me, that sounds too much like saying "If you don't have sex with someone any time s/he wants, it means you don't really love him/her."

No, I'm not willing to be in a relationship that's permanently asexual. But right now, expecting my bf to "prove his love" sexually when he's actually having panic attacks over anything more sexual than holding hands would be revictimizing him. He has the right to say no, always, to anything that makes him feel unsafe. I don't have to like it, but I also don't get to define "safe" for him.
 
EBrook,

I'm just now getting the time to read your thread with the attention it deserves, and I have to say that my first take is that I'm very impressed with how you're doing and the maturity of your decision-making.

Right now, I'm trying to think of giving him a break from the relationship as a gift I can offer him, a way to show I'm honoring his boundaries without anger. But damn, I miss him.
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Survivors definitely do go through a phase of what Lloydy calls "selfish" behavior-- but for a lot of survivors it is the first time they've ever been selfish in a productive way. And I'm personally convinced that coping with it involves a lot of just what you describe here-- stepping back so that we don't get hurt, taking care of ourselves, and generally insisting on the healthiest relationship that the both of you can manage-- or no relationship at all.

I've been with my boyfriend for nine years, and he's been working on recovery from SA for about two. There are days that it doesn't matter WHAT I need, or how desperately I need it-- I'm not going to get it from him. That could mean sex or it could mean someone to do the crossword puzzle with, or anything in between. Most of the time, for me, this is something I can accept in the short term-- mostly because I've spent a lot of time working on myself and figuring out how to be versatile in taking care of myself... and because he can understand and appreciate that I do make sacrifices on his bad days. A little reinforcement and acknowledgement goes a long way, even when he's not in a position to hear about my bad day or come out visiting or have sex.

I have to add-- three or four years ago, before he started working on himself and his issues, he was a totally different kind of selfish-- he just didn't care about much, including himself, and would frequently act in ways that hurt people around him-- but there was no sense of self-love or self-preservation behind it. And during THAT time, it was more than possible-- easy, even-- to get him to meet any need I had, if I was willing to play into his own sense of inadequacy or shame to do it... and if I was willing to live with the knowledge that he was meeting my needs out of obligation, fear, and disregard for his own needs and feelings, rather than out of love and free choice.

I've said this before on this forum-- but for me, loving a survivor has been an exercise in selflessness-- not martyrdom, not where the relationship is concerned, but where he and his healing are concerned. Personally, I'd rather have the guy who's healing and loving himself and saying no to me in self-preserving, respectful ways, than the guy who begrudgingly does whatever everyone else expects of him, only when asked, because he thinks he's not good enough to say no.

I do think sometimes partners can get caught in selfish phases and play on a survivor's insecurities and lack of boundaries. There are times that I'll hear people on this forum say things like "Our relationship was perfect until he went into recovery..." and to be honest, it makes me wonder how perfect the survivor thought the relationship was.

I firmly believe that caving in to the pressure of missing him and wanting the old familiar unhealthy, hurtful relationship is the most toxic thing anyone can do to the hope of a future healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. You are totally right to draw your own boundaries and insist on relationships that meet your needs... but it doesn't have to be so black and white.

You can refuse the current unhealthy relationship without abandoning him or walking away. Who says you have to date other people? Who says you have to date anyone? Can you just communicate very clearly what you need from the relationship, let him know that you trust and have faith in him that very soon he'll be able to get to a point where he can be in a relationship like that, and then step back and wait for him to work on things?

SAR
 
Originally posted by SAR:
Who says you have to date other people? Who says you have to date anyone? Can you just communicate very clearly what you need from the relationship, let him know that you trust and have faith in him that very soon he'll be able to get to a point where he can be in a relationship like that, and then step back and wait for him to work on things?
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At this point, I am considering letting him know that I'm rethinking my desire to date other people. I do feel like we've got something good that's worth taking a chance on. In spite of his struggles, he's still the sweetest, funniest, most thoughtful, most generous, most interesting man I've met in a long time.

On the other hand, I am very clear: I want a life partner. I've had a habit in the past of settling for scraps, and I can't allow myself to do that again. So saying "I'm willing to date other people" is a way to remind myself that I have the right to decide whether I'm in or out -- that I don't have to just sit back and wait for the other person to decide whether or not he wants me.

It's a hard balancing act. I'm really struggling with it.
 
Hang in there girl!! and hang on to yourself. I know it's hard.

I know this bit got sort of lost in my last long post to you, but this is very familiar to me:

I need to have some sense that there will be room for both of us in the relationship, maybe not right now, but in the long run.
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I don't think this need is always obvious to the survivors in our lives. We don't mind gambling on the chance that things will improve, but we'd like to have an idea of the odds.

What could he do for you to give you some reassurance and acknowledgement about this?

My boyfriend and I have had a lot of discussion about how I can feel more comfortable about the way things are in the short term. Most of it boils down to what I said in my previous post-- I need to know that he recognizes that I am supporting him. I need him to keep communication open with me and let me know about progress and setbacks.

When it comes to sex, I need to HEAR "I can't right now" instead of have to experience the series of silly sex-avoidance games and scripts-- from the pre-emptive strike the minute he walks in the door, to the purposely staying up until I'm asleep, to the picking a fight with me about nothing at all... and I've had to let him know that he doesn't have to feel guilty about asking for other things from me even if he's not comfortable with sexual contact-- I will stay awake talking to him, or leave the light on, or give him a hug, whatever-- but he has to trust me enough to ask, I can't and won't be a mindreader.

There is a lot of shame for men in talking about their lack of desire. These guys feel like they are total oddballs, that any other man on the planet would be thrilled to have a partner who wanted to have sex, that as men they're not supposed to be the ones saying no or letting their partner down. But overcoming this-- being able to talk honestly and openly, face to face with a sexual partner, is a hurdle that all couples face, SA history or not. And it's vitally important, and difficult. As hard as it was to hear, it does mean a lot that he was able to share his discomfort and displeasure with you as well.
 
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