I am not proud of this and realize it was wrong

I am not proud of this and realize it was wrong
lostcowboy

lostcowboy

Registrant
This is my second story about my little guy, At least I think its him that sends me vivid pictures of my rape scene when I am attracted to girls in the 11 to 13 age range. This is the story of when he did not, and what happened. I read "Grooming" or Setting Up Your Victim and Sexual abuse , yesterday and it put a whole new slant on this tale, If I am not a pervert I must have went right up to the line, and I think I am still in a high risk category today.
Edit: I want to make sure you know that I was 22 or 23 years old, and the girl was only 13 years old. I thought I had put my age in the story, but I couldn't find it. Legally, there is no such thing as consent for children if the other person is more than four years older.
Edited to fix links

I was still on my first submarine, we had just pulled back into Bangor Washington after being out for a month or so, there was a three day Holiday coming up, one of the guys that knew I had a car asked me if I would come with him to his relatives house in Oregon, his car had broken down there and he needed a ride down there to fix his car. I said yes, we arrived at his relatives house late about 11 PM, and bedded down in a pull out couch. I was abruptly awakened the next morning by this girl landing on top of me, asking who I was and wanting to know every thing about me, and she was touching me in a nonsexual way. Soon I gave in and was touching her back, again in a nonsexual way, this went on, and on for at least a day, maybe a day and a half. She asked if I would see her fort. I think if it was only her and me I would have said no, but I am not sure. But she invited her friend along, that seemed safe to me. When we got to the fort, both of the girls told me that they wanted to lose their virginity, and wanted me to be the one to do it. Well I analyzed the situation. This girl, her family had just went through a divorce, the girl lived with her mom and the moms live-in boyfriend. I think the girl was insecure as her breast had not started to develop yet, and her friend was well endowed.
This is what I said to them, that while they both were very pretty, I could not have sex with them. There were just to many years between our ages. I then asked why they wanted to lose there virginity. They said they were the last girls in their group that had not lost their virginity. I tried to explain that was not a good reason, it was much better to wait until they fell in love with someone, not just someone who they had known for only a day or two. I then took them back to the house. Me and my friend left the next day to go back to the sub.
I don't know why it didn't bother me that this happen.
I also don't understand why my little guy didn't do his thing with the vivid rape scene to stop me from acting on my impulses. Like has happen before and after this time.
About Ken Singer, LCSW Grooming web page. Here are the things that seem to relate to me.

Paying attention to a child who appears emotionally needy. I have always done this, I thought it was just because I came from a broken home, so I relate to them.

Physical contact such as touching, tickling. In this case this happen. But in the other times I resisted touching them back.

Bringing yourself down to the child's level of play (becoming the child's "buddy"). This does normally happen.
As far as the other things on the page they never happened in my case.

So I would say I am in a high risk group.

Looking back on this, I can see that I was in a emotional state.
 
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Hi Lostcowboy,

From what you say, there seems to me no evidence that you are in a high-risk group.
I think coming form difficult homes does give us empathy with children, and playing at a childs level can be a very positive thing. Touching and tickling a child in a way that they enjoy is a healthy behaviour. Some of what abusers do in grooming would be good normal adult to child behaviour in another context.

I think when we have been abused it makes healthy physical contact seem unsafe in some way for us. We can be uncomfortable around children the idea that we are bad and perverted inside because of what was done to us can translate into the idea that we are sexually wrong.

I have an irrational fear that people will think I am a child abuser; its mostly a subconscious thing but something I am trying to get a handle on in therapy. I havent fully worked out why but I know that I am not and never have been.

You acted totally appropriately with those girls and there is no reason from what you said to think you are in a risk group.

Rustam
 
Cowboy
High risk? that's a hell of a label to hang on yourself.

Have a real good look at the evidence, share it with your therapist, and I'll bet that you will eventually see the positive aspects in a better light.

You did resist, you did behave as you should have done, you are dealing with your doubts and fears.
That's ALL positive stuff.

One of the biggest problems we have to deal with as Survivors is our self-esteem, and while we have doubts and fears that are unresolved then we feel that our esteem is zero - so the problems get magnified. It's a viscous circle that we have to break into, if we don't break in then the circle keeps spinning and we just brush the surface.

Be proud of every achievment.

Dave
 
I will come back and say more. My favorite Tuesday TV show is coming on. See you all shortly.
Well that took longer than I thought it would. I like Veronica Mars on upn. Tonight it got delayed by a basketball game.

When I first thought about this tale, I was wondering if my little guy had spoken to me more than once. This is the only time that I know of that he was not on guard duty. Which got me to wondering, if he was not on guard duty then where was he? Could he have come out and played with this little girl? I mean except for the age diffrences, I would have sworn we were two 12 year olds having their first puppy love. Well that was the original idea.
 
I do not think you are a pervert, or that you are 'high risk'. You were very mature and responsible, and told both these girls the right things. You did not act, although it would have been much easy for you to. I think that all of us, firstly, we tend to think down on ourselves, if we can find something that is thinking the worst of ourselves, we will. Also, I think we tend to feel so damaged, we will 'diagnose' ourselves some with limited information, and again, to the more negative of options. Please take good care of yourself and try to be better to you and your 'little guy'.

leosha
 
Hi All, today I realized part of the reason I was so hard on myself in the first message here, Legally, there is no such thing as consent for children if the other person is more than four years older. . The other part is I think I knew that to me the touching I was doing was sexual not nonsexual. What do I mean by that, no I didn't touch any parts of her body that we normally consider sexual. But I have read in "Male Sexuality by Bernie Zilbergeld,PH.D. the chapter on touching that Male children in most family's are given the message that touching is sexual, that there is no such thing as a nonsexual touch for guys. That was so very very true in my family. That is why I can't stand for a guy to touch me, that is why I keep hoping that women will touch me, that is why I want to touch women I am attracted to but can't, because I know it is a sexual touch, and they have done nothing that I have been able to interpret as giving me permission to touch them. The only girls that had ever given me permission to touch them, have been girls in strip clubs, and they let me know it was ok by touching me first!

Ok so what have we got here.

Legally, there is no such thing as consent for children if the other person is more than four years older.

The girl was 13 years old

I was 22 or 23 years old

The girl touched me first, and I had been conditioned to accept that as permission to return the touch.

For me the only touch I have is sexual.

Ignorance is no excuse before the law!

Any court would say I am guilty. I am a pervert!
Fuck Me!!

I'd turn myself in but I have no clue what the familys name is. My friend last name was Smith, thats all I remember. The family lived somewhere in Organ, during 1980.
 
Clifford,

Reading the whole thread, what I see is a self-esteem problem rather than a high-risk-of-offending problem. When those girls approached you you stopped things before they became inappropriate, and what you told them about virginity strikes me as good responsible advice.

The key issue now is that you have discovered a book claiming that for males all touch is sexual. The late Bernie Zilbergeld was well-known and the book you mention is a tremendous bestseller, but I haven't read it and on the face of it I find the argument about male touch hard to believe. If I pat my sister on the arm or hug my mother, that's sexual?

I personally think you should go easier on yourself here. The argument you make against yourself really does depend on how one reads that book and then what one chooses to do with the information on one specific point, removed from context.

This is what makes me wonder if the real problem isn't that you are very ready to see and expect the worst from yourself. That's of course a big survivor issue, but one of a very different kind.

Much love,
Larry
 
Clifford
You KNOW the difference between good and bad, don't beat yourself up.

Dave
 
Clifford,

have you ever used this slant on your thinking!
Most boys had girlfriends at maybe 11yo onwards, I could not count on sexual girlfriends.

As time passed, and you see all your friends losing their virginity, and you cant, because of what happened, then in later teens you still crave the virgin effect of a relationship.

Its like the little guy saying, hey, I could not have sex at 11-13yo, not that he might have done, but the fact that he was too hurt to make the relationship.

The learning curve would be, that you are somehow defined by abuse in making normal relationships in life with girls, so maybe the older teen male thinks he lost out.

I remember in my late teens, still acting like a young teen who had not fulfilled his relationship issues in a normal child way, so I would maybe crave the younger of the children.

I am not talking about abuse, but a natural reaction of denying yourself of the love and discovery of the opposite sex when young, especially if the opposite sex initiated it.

None of us ever grew up to be normal kids, but it is how we perceive our past, and to me, sex was not something to be enjoyed.

It was about love, and I never found real love, why? Because, I dont feel anyone could love me.

Does this answer the same question?

ste
 
Clifford,

I responded to this the first time, and I see no reason to change my mind on it. You are NOT a pervert, and you did nothing wrong. Take care of yourself, and go easy with yourself on this.

Leosha
 
Hi guys, I have done my last title change to this. I wanted the title to say"I am not proud of this and now realize it was wrong at the time. Triggers!", but ran out of room, maybe one of the mods can put the triggers warning on it.

Sometimes it is good to go back and read your old posts to see how you have changed.

Take care,
Clifford
 
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