How to Draw Line w/Violent Friend (Need "12 Step" Input, Too)
*******************************************
*
* Moderate-to-Strong Trigger Warning
*
* I'm writing about rage I witnessed, so that may be triggering.
* Also, I want to say upfront that I was NOT physically harmed by what happened.
*
*******************************************
Hi guys,
This is kind of a long story, you need the background to understand what's happening with me, but the upshot is this : At dinner one night, I said something to fellow survivor (he's NOT an MS member) that I need to apologize for, but I also need to tell him that his violent behavior at the table (just before I said what I did) frightened me so bad that I cannot be around him anymore.
"Brad" (not his real name) is in my AA home group. He's recovering from both alcoholism and sex abuse (incested by his mother). Though he's not really a friend, I would call him a brother in recovery, and we've talked about survivor stuff a few times.
"Dora" (not her real name) was also a member of our AA home group, until she moved away about a year ago, to take a better job out-of-state. Dora couldn't sell her house here, so she rented it to Brad.
Brad & I had dinner together about three weeks ago. I had driven to his house, then we both went in his car. On the way to the restaurant, he told me he was moving to a cheaper place, and that he & Dora we're having a big falling out over how much notice he gave, how much the rent was supposed to have been, blah, blah, blah - the usual tenant / landlord stuff.
At the restaurant, after we'd ordered our food, Dora called Brad on his cell phone and they really got into it. She was screaming so loud I heard her all the way across the table, and though Brad was not screaming, he was very, very angry, very loud and very aggressive.
Setup # 1 : I had never heard Dora raise her voice to anyone, so I was shocked by her screaming.
Setup # 2 : I have seen Brad angry before, but never what you'd call ugly. And just the week prior, he had shared in an AA meeting how he was meditating every day, twice a day, and how much it was helping with his bad temper - yet here he was, being *extremely* ugly on the phone, which really shocked me.
So, the conversation got angrier and angrier, and it was all pointless stuff - each of them trying to be "right" and scoring low blows against the other, instead of trying to solve the problem. Dora must have threatened to call her lawyer, because Brad said that if she wanted to go there, she could, but he wouldn't have to pay for *his* lawyer because there were a bunch working for his company and they'd do it free of charge. She screamed something, then Brad yelled "Fine, my attorney will see you in court !" and hung up the phone.
** Next Paragraph - Trigger Warning **
Immediately after that, in a fit of out-of-control rage, Brad grabbed a fork off the table and violently & repeatedly stabbed the table with it, for 5-10 seconds.
** End Trigger Warning **
After that, he put his face in his hands, bent his head down like he was praying, and remained that way for 2-3 minutes. I was in such shock that put my palms on my knees and did deep breathing, a technique I learned at the Simpsonwood "Weekend of Recovery" retreat to keep me from dissociating. Unfortunately, I also closed my eyes a bit during that time, which I've learned makes my dissociation much *worse*, but that's what happened.
Brad came out of his "prayer" (or whatever it was he was doing), and calmly talked about what a bitch Dora was, etc, etc. Once I got grounded again, I point blank asked him if there was something in Dora's behavior that reminded him of his mother, of being an incest survivor. He barked out "No, that's not it at all !" so I let it drop.
We talked about other things during dinner, but we got really lousy service, so he was really ugly to the waitress, then demanded to see the floor manager and that got very ugly, too. As we were leaving, his phone rang and it was Dora's attorney, so Brad gave the guy his own attorney's name, number, etc. He bitched a bit more as we walked out, then we went back to talking about other things.
And the entire episode just went away, out of my mind. Not that I'd forgotten it, but I sure as hell repressed all the fear & negative emotions around it.
About two weeks ago, Brad was to speak at one of the small AA meetings we both attend, and before the meeting he was grousing about this-and-that, then commented that he must be channeling some bitchy spirit. I shot back at him "Dora ?", several of the guys around the table gasped, and Brad got very angry and shot some ugly remark back to me. The meeting began, he spoke, and after the meeting, I apologized for my "Dora" remark. And the truth is, AT THE TIME, I had no idea where that nasty remark I made had come from.
In the two weeks since, Brad bitched to "Fred" about me giving unsolicited advice, and about getting angry & hurt by something I said, and Fred relayed this to "Hal", who is my AA sponsor as well as Fred's. I saw Hal tonight, we talked about a bunch of recovery stuff, then he brought up what Fred had said. Hal already knew about the incident with Brad & the fork (he knows all about me being a survivor, and has been real helpful), but something must have gotten lost in the transmission from Brad to Fred to Hal to me, because Hal didn't know exactly what it was that Brad was hurt / angry about. Since the only contact I've had in months with Brad was the two times discussed here, he could be upset about either, or both.
So, I decided I needed to make a 12-Step-style amend to Brad, for both the unsolicited advice at the dinner table, and for the truly ugly remark equating him with Dora.
But as Hal & I talked more about all this, I started dissociating BAD, so much so that I made up a wet washcloth full of ice-cubes and kept pressing it against my face to stay in the present (BTW - it works real well !) Eventually, I got in touch with my inner Little Boy and how terrorized he had felt by Brad's behavior, and that he never wanted to be alone with Brad, ever again. I will honor that.
So, here's what I'm planning to do, and why, but I want input from all you men, and especially from those with experience in 12 Step recovery. And since what I plan to do involves a confrontation about the violence, I am going to do it at Hal's house - Brad & I will sit in the sun room with the sliding glass doors closed, while Hal sits across the dining room, in the living room, but still within sight. This is what my Little Boy needs to feel safe.
1) I *think* I owe Brad an amend for the unsolicited advice, but NOT for any feelings he had thereafter - I am not responsible for those, he is. What I plan to say is something like this :
"Brad, I'm sorry I gave you unsolicited advice. You didn't ask for it, and whatever was going on between you and Dora was none of my business. I will do my best to never give you unasked-for advice again."
2) I'm *sure* I owe him an amend for the remark equating him with Dora, because I realized tonight that it was a covert attack because I feel so unsafe around him since the fork incident, which I did not understand when I made the remark. My safety is my responsibility, not his. What I plan to say is something like this :
"Brad, I'm sorry for that 'Dora' remark I made to you at the meeting, and for whatever hurt and anger you may have felt as a result. It was a stealth attack, because I was full of fear. I will do my best to never speak to you again from a fearful place."
At this point, I need to add some explanation : When making amends based on a 12 Step program, I am to focus ONLY on what I did, not anything that the other person did or did not do. I am to own my part (but no more than that), and clean up my side of the street. What the other person does with my amend is none of my business, and I have to let go of the outcome.
But the AA literature acknowledges the limits of a 12 Step program, and addresses those limits under the general heading "problems other than alcohol." It has taken me a loooooong time to realize that the 12 Step approach to making amends is NOT APPROPRIATE for some of the work male survivors must do, especially in the realm of laying the blame WHERE IT BELONGS, which is on the perps and their enablers, not ourselves; survivor issues are a "problem other than alcohol." And I need to lay the blame for Brad's terrorizing outburst - and the consequences - squarely on him.
3) I will tell Brad that in order to say the final thing I need to say to him, I'm must to shift out of "12 Step" mode and into "problems other than alcohol" mode, and that what I have to say is about a male survivor taking care of himself. Then I plan to say something like this :
"Brad, when you started stabbing the table with the fork, you were out of control, raging and violent. I felt terrorized by your behavior, because I had no idea if it was going to stop, or if you were going to attack me next, or the waitress. I was so frightened that I went into shock, and shut down my emotions. At the AA meeting, I was still in such shock that I did not consciously know I was afraid, but it seeped out anyway, with my "Dora" remark. While I am responsible for owning and healing that fear, you are responsible for the outburst that caused it. I do not feel safe around you, and will not be alone with you in the future. That's why this is taking place at Hal's house, so I can feel safe enough to speak. I've now said all I need to say."
So, what do you think ?
*
* Moderate-to-Strong Trigger Warning
*
* I'm writing about rage I witnessed, so that may be triggering.
* Also, I want to say upfront that I was NOT physically harmed by what happened.
*
*******************************************
Hi guys,
This is kind of a long story, you need the background to understand what's happening with me, but the upshot is this : At dinner one night, I said something to fellow survivor (he's NOT an MS member) that I need to apologize for, but I also need to tell him that his violent behavior at the table (just before I said what I did) frightened me so bad that I cannot be around him anymore.
"Brad" (not his real name) is in my AA home group. He's recovering from both alcoholism and sex abuse (incested by his mother). Though he's not really a friend, I would call him a brother in recovery, and we've talked about survivor stuff a few times.
"Dora" (not her real name) was also a member of our AA home group, until she moved away about a year ago, to take a better job out-of-state. Dora couldn't sell her house here, so she rented it to Brad.
Brad & I had dinner together about three weeks ago. I had driven to his house, then we both went in his car. On the way to the restaurant, he told me he was moving to a cheaper place, and that he & Dora we're having a big falling out over how much notice he gave, how much the rent was supposed to have been, blah, blah, blah - the usual tenant / landlord stuff.
At the restaurant, after we'd ordered our food, Dora called Brad on his cell phone and they really got into it. She was screaming so loud I heard her all the way across the table, and though Brad was not screaming, he was very, very angry, very loud and very aggressive.
Setup # 1 : I had never heard Dora raise her voice to anyone, so I was shocked by her screaming.
Setup # 2 : I have seen Brad angry before, but never what you'd call ugly. And just the week prior, he had shared in an AA meeting how he was meditating every day, twice a day, and how much it was helping with his bad temper - yet here he was, being *extremely* ugly on the phone, which really shocked me.
So, the conversation got angrier and angrier, and it was all pointless stuff - each of them trying to be "right" and scoring low blows against the other, instead of trying to solve the problem. Dora must have threatened to call her lawyer, because Brad said that if she wanted to go there, she could, but he wouldn't have to pay for *his* lawyer because there were a bunch working for his company and they'd do it free of charge. She screamed something, then Brad yelled "Fine, my attorney will see you in court !" and hung up the phone.
** Next Paragraph - Trigger Warning **
Immediately after that, in a fit of out-of-control rage, Brad grabbed a fork off the table and violently & repeatedly stabbed the table with it, for 5-10 seconds.
** End Trigger Warning **
After that, he put his face in his hands, bent his head down like he was praying, and remained that way for 2-3 minutes. I was in such shock that put my palms on my knees and did deep breathing, a technique I learned at the Simpsonwood "Weekend of Recovery" retreat to keep me from dissociating. Unfortunately, I also closed my eyes a bit during that time, which I've learned makes my dissociation much *worse*, but that's what happened.
Brad came out of his "prayer" (or whatever it was he was doing), and calmly talked about what a bitch Dora was, etc, etc. Once I got grounded again, I point blank asked him if there was something in Dora's behavior that reminded him of his mother, of being an incest survivor. He barked out "No, that's not it at all !" so I let it drop.
We talked about other things during dinner, but we got really lousy service, so he was really ugly to the waitress, then demanded to see the floor manager and that got very ugly, too. As we were leaving, his phone rang and it was Dora's attorney, so Brad gave the guy his own attorney's name, number, etc. He bitched a bit more as we walked out, then we went back to talking about other things.
And the entire episode just went away, out of my mind. Not that I'd forgotten it, but I sure as hell repressed all the fear & negative emotions around it.
About two weeks ago, Brad was to speak at one of the small AA meetings we both attend, and before the meeting he was grousing about this-and-that, then commented that he must be channeling some bitchy spirit. I shot back at him "Dora ?", several of the guys around the table gasped, and Brad got very angry and shot some ugly remark back to me. The meeting began, he spoke, and after the meeting, I apologized for my "Dora" remark. And the truth is, AT THE TIME, I had no idea where that nasty remark I made had come from.
In the two weeks since, Brad bitched to "Fred" about me giving unsolicited advice, and about getting angry & hurt by something I said, and Fred relayed this to "Hal", who is my AA sponsor as well as Fred's. I saw Hal tonight, we talked about a bunch of recovery stuff, then he brought up what Fred had said. Hal already knew about the incident with Brad & the fork (he knows all about me being a survivor, and has been real helpful), but something must have gotten lost in the transmission from Brad to Fred to Hal to me, because Hal didn't know exactly what it was that Brad was hurt / angry about. Since the only contact I've had in months with Brad was the two times discussed here, he could be upset about either, or both.
So, I decided I needed to make a 12-Step-style amend to Brad, for both the unsolicited advice at the dinner table, and for the truly ugly remark equating him with Dora.
But as Hal & I talked more about all this, I started dissociating BAD, so much so that I made up a wet washcloth full of ice-cubes and kept pressing it against my face to stay in the present (BTW - it works real well !) Eventually, I got in touch with my inner Little Boy and how terrorized he had felt by Brad's behavior, and that he never wanted to be alone with Brad, ever again. I will honor that.
So, here's what I'm planning to do, and why, but I want input from all you men, and especially from those with experience in 12 Step recovery. And since what I plan to do involves a confrontation about the violence, I am going to do it at Hal's house - Brad & I will sit in the sun room with the sliding glass doors closed, while Hal sits across the dining room, in the living room, but still within sight. This is what my Little Boy needs to feel safe.
1) I *think* I owe Brad an amend for the unsolicited advice, but NOT for any feelings he had thereafter - I am not responsible for those, he is. What I plan to say is something like this :
"Brad, I'm sorry I gave you unsolicited advice. You didn't ask for it, and whatever was going on between you and Dora was none of my business. I will do my best to never give you unasked-for advice again."
2) I'm *sure* I owe him an amend for the remark equating him with Dora, because I realized tonight that it was a covert attack because I feel so unsafe around him since the fork incident, which I did not understand when I made the remark. My safety is my responsibility, not his. What I plan to say is something like this :
"Brad, I'm sorry for that 'Dora' remark I made to you at the meeting, and for whatever hurt and anger you may have felt as a result. It was a stealth attack, because I was full of fear. I will do my best to never speak to you again from a fearful place."
At this point, I need to add some explanation : When making amends based on a 12 Step program, I am to focus ONLY on what I did, not anything that the other person did or did not do. I am to own my part (but no more than that), and clean up my side of the street. What the other person does with my amend is none of my business, and I have to let go of the outcome.
But the AA literature acknowledges the limits of a 12 Step program, and addresses those limits under the general heading "problems other than alcohol." It has taken me a loooooong time to realize that the 12 Step approach to making amends is NOT APPROPRIATE for some of the work male survivors must do, especially in the realm of laying the blame WHERE IT BELONGS, which is on the perps and their enablers, not ourselves; survivor issues are a "problem other than alcohol." And I need to lay the blame for Brad's terrorizing outburst - and the consequences - squarely on him.
3) I will tell Brad that in order to say the final thing I need to say to him, I'm must to shift out of "12 Step" mode and into "problems other than alcohol" mode, and that what I have to say is about a male survivor taking care of himself. Then I plan to say something like this :
"Brad, when you started stabbing the table with the fork, you were out of control, raging and violent. I felt terrorized by your behavior, because I had no idea if it was going to stop, or if you were going to attack me next, or the waitress. I was so frightened that I went into shock, and shut down my emotions. At the AA meeting, I was still in such shock that I did not consciously know I was afraid, but it seeped out anyway, with my "Dora" remark. While I am responsible for owning and healing that fear, you are responsible for the outburst that caused it. I do not feel safe around you, and will not be alone with you in the future. That's why this is taking place at Hal's house, so I can feel safe enough to speak. I've now said all I need to say."
So, what do you think ?
