How reliable are recovered memories?

How reliable are recovered memories?
C

crisispoint

Registrant
Just a thought. Most of what I recovered in terms of memories I trust, but I had a flash of another memory which was particularly horrible (I'm not sharing it here and yet, I want as many opinions as possible and I don't want to risk keeping anyone away because of trigger fears), but I don't know if I "feel" if it really happened.

Just because you "remember" something, does it mean it's accurate? And how accurate is it if you feel the basic truth is just that?

I dunno. It's weird. Just a thought and a question. Thanks in advance to anyone who feels they can add something.

Peace and love, my brothers,

Scot :confused:
 
Ahhh... to dream the impossible dream of trusting your memories. I have struggled in therapy with this for a long time... I don't want to admit something if I don't 100% know it happened, but that precise thinking has kept me from healing for a long time. Then there are the theories... repressed memory, false memory, emotional memory, body memory, merged memory. Hell, might as well throw deja vu in there while you're at it.

It is the hardest thing to deal with for me. If I can't trust my memories, I don't even want to admit to the ones I do have. And then some of them seem fleeting or fuzzy to me, and I distrust those as well.

I wish I had a better answer for you, but all I can give is my experience.

-Sean
 
I know what you mean. Some things that I seem to remember may have been dreams combined with images I had in my mind from books or movies. :confused:
 
Now Im not a pro or anything...but imho....While the memory may not be 100% the way that it happened. The mind is a funny thing and sometime it will make up things to go with the feelings. While the event you are recalling may not be exactly the way it happened. Your mind may have filled in some blanks. What is real is the feelings. So may try foucing in on the feelings this new memory is bring up and not so much on the details of it. Now just do me one favor......dont quote this back to me, because I sure dont do this. :)
James
 
I will share some of my experience, and hope it helps.

There was never a time in my life when I had forgotten that I had been savagely raped and other stuff.

Over the years the memory became one of just knowing about the fact of the abuse. This lasted for about 35 or 40 years.

Then, a day came when I started having flashbacks and nightmares. The details I had tried to not think about became very much a part of my memory and I began to remember the smallest details of the rapes.

Every now and then, I have a nightmare when I see something that I do not remember happening, but I am really afraid because of the nightmare. These things I do not know much about. They are not clear, and I do not have a distinct memory that lines up with what I remember of the nightmare.

In the section of this site, that has papers for professionals, there are two articles about memory, false memories etc. They may offer you lots of understanding.

Unless a memory is clearly one of a movie you saw or a book you read, I would not count them out. I suspect they are incidences of your psyche wanting to deal with this material. I sure would not hesitate to talk to my therapist about any of this.

I also will tell you that the therapy of EMDR has been VERY helpful to me in dealing with the horror, and then somehow seeing it in a new light. A new way of thinking about it that gives me the power, or an insight, that makes the original terror rather neutral as far as distressing me.

I hope this helps some.

Bob
 
Hoo boy! I have a fixation on the reliability of recovered memories to the point of near-monomaniacal research on the Web during the last three months. A couple of times my therapist has asked me if all this was really necessary.

What I've learned is based on limited research studies, but then what isn't? Anyway, I've learned:

  • Dissociative amnesia and the possibility of recovery of those memories is in the DSM-IV; false memory syndrome is not
  • Using external verification, recovered memories seem to be as accurate as, no more and no less than, continuous memories
  • There seems to be a higher than fifty per cent, in some studies, nearly one hundred per cent external verification of the memories
  • The emotional content of a memory stays very constant over time, even if the details fade a bit

I guess I would say, like Bob, to trust your memories unless you have very good evidence that they come from elsewhere. Maybe this'll help. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Tom :)
 
Memory doubt--that's what I'm going through.

The abuse I suffered (and that I remember so far) was subtle compared to the experience of too many people. It involved being touched by my mother in ways that made me uncomfortable, and, now I realize, abused by my older brother as well.

The thing is, I don't remember exactly what age(s) I was. I am pretty sure he was about 15-17. That would have made me 11-14. Basically, he held me down, nuzzling his nose and face against my chest. Because my body bucked under his, he laughed, calling out loudly, "Go Bronco." He was so much larger...I could NOT get him off.

There was another incident with him. Much more graphic and invasive. I'm not ready to talk about it. Back to memories though, it is an incident that I never forgot, but that I considered harmless for about twenty years. Now I realize that part of it is blacked out. There is something awful there.

My problem is this, when he did things to me, he laughed. It was all a joke. You can't cry or complain about a joke, right? I wanted to be cool, like him. Just laugh. I mean, if he was laughing this hard, I thought it must be funny.

Now the memories make me sick. I never lost them, I just misinterpretted them.

But with the bronco thing...what if I'm wrong. I mean, what he did tickled, so I laughed. (I still don't consider it innocent because he had to hold me down.) Is it possible I'm recalling the event as sexual when he did not see it that way? I consider nipples erogenous zones, and I don't know if other adolescent boys touch each other in those ways without meaning any sexuality to be involved.

My fear is twofold--

Maybe I am interpretting events as sexual which were not at the time. THat would mean that the problem is in me, not my past.

OR

Maybe my brother interprets those events differently. If I confront him, saying I consider it abuse, than he'll laugh at the absurdity of the suggestion and I'll have no control over who in the family hears about my problems. Right now nobody in my family knows I'm going through this.

I'll think I'll write a new posting about how to confront folks or come out, but i know this one is about recovered memories.

I just wanted to say memories are indeed confusing. My problem is that the other participants (the perpetrators) may not remember or may remember the events differently. That possiblity, among other things, keeps me from confronting.
 
This from my own experience only and not meant to sound universal by any means:

I have a very good imagination. I can imagine really awful things and those thoughts are disturbing. The difference between those thoughts and recovered memory, for me, is that with imagined things I do not experience disassocation. That feeling is very distinct for me and cannot be mistaken.

That was not always the case, however. My life was pretty much ruined by the abuse I experienced. My self-confidence was shot. My ability to stick to things including jobs and school was greatly undermined. Making and keeping relationships pretty much impossible. I was often depressed, often suicidal.

Several years ago, after 30 years of being in and out of therapy, I was lucky to get a therapist who had experience in treating children who had been abused. She was the first to recognize the symptoms for what they were and I have been making progress since.

It continues to be very difficult. The symptoms largely remain though my self confidence has begun to build and I am more aware of the sources of my feelings. Medication helps me function at a level that I can pursue recovery. Caring professionals help. But it is very very hard. My mind makes certain that it is impossible to have sexual or otherwise intimate relationships with others. I am not able to work a full time job. Sometimes I have to cancel things because I can't stand to be around people.

And, fragments of memory, some from my infancy, haunt and torment me.

B.
 
This is a real problem for me too. What is real?what am I imagining? etc.

Like learning2remember, the abuse I can recall was with an older boy. Did he think of it as abuse? Those events I can remember, and largely always did, but it was the realization of what was really going on that hit so hard. In short, I too misinterpreted it.

Since I've realized what it was, I think I have other memories of other stuff that happened with him. And I've since found out that I was abused much earlier than that by someone entirely different.

Once in a while, I think I get a flash of being in the kitchen of that house and utterly terrified. But I have no idea if he lived in that house at the time I was abused. (Recent pictures I found indicated that he probably did so that helps somewhat.)

I don't have any direct memory of being abused in that house, just a real fear of the corner in the kitchen. Was that where the abuse occurred or am I just imagining it? Am I imagining the other stuff I can recall about the other perp?

I don't know the answers here. But I do know it's incredibly frustrating and confusing.

I'm really glad this thread started. It really hits home for me.

Thanks all.

Eric
 
this is strange. i have just started dealing with a new series of dijointed memories and this thread comes up. i wont go into the new ones because they are far worse than the ones i have recalled, but what i can do is to share my own experiences with other memories and hope it helps.

when my memories started coming back it was all in a very vague sense of emotions such as inexplicable terror, dissociative episodes, and body memories. the pieces i put together came from talking with my sib -who also experienced CSA-, clear memories i had prior to the onslaught of last year's flood of recall, and logic. the memories of the abuse were emotive responses to the issues of child abuse, and the body memories that would hit me during a dissociative episode. put all of that together, plus the behaviors i recalled from childhood (before the memories started coming back), and i knew there was something very real and very disturbing. once i gave it the credibility it needed in my mind, the conclusions started rolling. i do not have clear objective recall of the events i know happened, but i do have the childhood behaviors, somatic recall, and emotional terror that validate the truth of the abuse. memories are edited throughout our lifetime, but the subconscious never forgets and is always in the present. the flashbacks we have (emotional memories or clear recall) are the subconscious memories of the events that did not stop in terms of the subconscious. there is no real concept of linear time in the subconscious therefore the flashbacks are not memories as we understand them in the linear sense, they are events that never stopped happening subconsciously and emotionally.

bottom line to my usual rambling is this: conscious memory is often edited by various means, but the subconscious keeps that fragment of the isolated event/events buried but in the sense of the present moment. when it comes right down to it, the only real validity we have is the emotion the subconscious releases when we are given some slice of the event. a person cannot fake a sincere emotive response to internal stimuli, therein lies our proof of the validity of the memories. the details do not matter in the bottom line because it is the emotions that are being expressed, not the editorial. take care everyone.
 
a person cannot fake a sincere emotive response to internal stimuli, therein lies our proof of the validity of the memories
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Can't agree more with this. I have to learn to trust my own truths. That may be the hardest thing in dealing with recovered memory.

B.
 
Isn't this an interesting topic ?

I can remember nearly every incident of abuse that took place over four years, it ended when I was 15yo.
Obviously some of the 'regular' occassions where it happened the same way in the same place, appear to have merged together, but there's very little I've forgotton.

Although during the most intense part of my therapy I did remember new things, and being the sceptic I am, I had some doubts about the truth of those memories.

But I didn't doubt the emotions that accompanied the memories, not one bit.

And on the other end of the scale, I can't for the life of me remember some things about the abuse that I know are fact.
I can't remember the proper name of the teacher that abused me, just his nickname. Nor the names of some of the occassional abusers who were in the gang.
I can pick them out on the school photograph, but I can't name them.
Neither can I place some different events in chronological order.

The memory problem is an important one for us, on a personal level we need to know what happened accurately.
And for the 'movement' to be taken seriously we need to avoid the fiasco's of false memory that have caused so much scepitism. New Zealand about 10 years ago is a classic example of false memories causing havoc.

Dave
 
The details of my abuse as a 16-17 year old have dissappeared but not the pain, humiliation the smeells the action, the three of them and the fear. The actual abuse is like yesterday but the players have faded except for me.

The memories of being abused by my uncle when 6 recently surfaced but they too lack detail except for the pajamas I was wearing.

And I am glad that they are fading. I hope some day that the rest of it will fade too and cease to exercise control over the present.
 
Well, I am not so sure. Much of the main abuse of me, I always rememberd, just chose to ignore. But again, I rather 'split off', and have 'others' that hold some of my memories, from what it seems (of what other people tell me who have talked with an 'other' of me). So, I guess if I have anything I remember that is 'repressed', it is really something that I remembered as 'other'? I am still not so sure how it all works.

The only thing I have 'recovered' so far, as memory, was death of my brother, and my mother confirm that to me that it is true, as I remembered it.

I do not know if that is help at all. Good luck to you, and I wish you well.

leosha
 
I relate to that idea that memories are formed by the nature of our understanding at the time the abuse occurred.

I have a memory of something happening to me in a park restroom when I was about four years old. What actually happened is not clear but the feelings are. It was only after talking about this with my therapist a number of times that I began trusting my feelings (they are real) and then no longer assuming that I had to have specific images for the memory to be real. Why do we expect a child to have an adult's understanding of what happened to us?

I had assumed that the perp was a grown up until I talked it through a few times and realized that he just seemed big to me and that includes older kids when you are only four years old.

I don't specifically remember my father being nearby but I do remember the feeling of panic and wanting to cry out for my daddy to come help me. (Which is more than a little ironic when I think of what he did later. It is a present moment horror to have to allow that he might have joined in).

It was like I was on my own in so many ways. Adults not looking out for me, not listening to me, not explaining things to me, threatening, tricking.

Brett.
 
brett,
it is difficult to express the light bulb moment when i read your quoted line. i have been struggling with new memories that are worse than others i have recalled and trying to make sense of them. your thought has given me a new line to investigate. thank you, very much. i will keep everyone posted as it progresses.

Originally posted by Brayton:
Why do we expect a child to have an adult's understanding of what happened to us?
Click to expand...
 
I have trouble with being intimate in all ways on anything more than a temporary basis and then it seems shallow and empty.

I think with a sort of childish mind a lot of the time. I have to conciously remind myself of how old I really am, that I am an adult, and then give myself permission to think as an adult. Otherwise, its kind of like I'm just waiting to be victimized.

I did some cognitive behavior therapy some years ago and that sometimes helps me not misinterpret what others say and do or at least ground me by reminding me that I usually don't really know their motives for saying and doing what they do. But a lot of the time I just stumble through the day.

Lately, I've been uncomfortable everywhere. I don't want to be at work. I don't want to be at home. The only place I really feel safe is my therapist's office though I dread going there.

Brett.
 
Most people can't remember much before they were about five, but there still has to be some kind of pre-cognitive learning process in a child's mind that draws conclusions about the world and the child's place in it. Children that are treated well during those years are more likely to develop well and form good relationships, children treated poorly don't do as well. Even if these years aren't consciously remembered, they form the early impressions of the world from the child's point of view. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter how we treat young children, since they aren't going to 'remember' much.

Also, I've been reading a little bit about the memory too, and researchers are leaning toward a model of the memory in which a fair amount of just regular memory is reconstructed as opposed to a completely accurate videotape of the past. So, Some of the normal things everybody remembers about their lives get distorted over time. And yet we don't worry about these errors, and we trust ourselves and our perceptions about everyday things.

My point is that, as others have already said, the feelings and distorted thinking that effect us so intensly came from somewhere. And memory is not a 100% accurate vidoetape for anybody. It doesn't need to be.

Having said that I doubt myself all the time. I guess this is where we abandon ourselves like they abandoned us, or choose to make things different. It seems like I have to make that choice every day, and each time its a struggle.

I flip between calling myself everything derogetory, and comforting and believing myself. Hopefully that will get easier so that it doesn'ttake up so much mental energy. Recently sometimes I'll start to dig at myself, and then I just get sick of it and get back to whatever I was doing. I guess that's progress.

It was really amazing to hear how different people experience all this. Our minds are pretty amazing.
 
Part of what made therapy so productive this week was that the therapist led me into what I call a "controlled flashback" which validated, at least in part, the confusing flash of memory that made me start this thread in the first place.

However, I must admit the downside of my mind repressing the abuse I had. On the one hand, it was good that I avoided dealing with it then, as I'm pretty sure that the terror would've finished me long before my abuser could do it himself. The other part is, of course, I'm not sure how much of what I remember is real or fabircated to fit my emotional state at the time. It's driving me crazy!

Also, while I do have the memrories (most of 'em, I think) back, the only time I feel a real connection to them is when I'm in a flashback. Strange, but I sometimes feel that I NEED to go back there, to reexperience it so I know it's real. Is that sadomasochistic? I can't answer that.

I guess it's easier to doubt yourself than believe when you have no way of validating it apart from yourself. Then again, this @$$hole did his crimes in private, and the only other person who can say it really happened is either dead or would never admit it even if I could confront him.

Ah, to be able to truly validate it! But I know it's real and I'm slowly accepting that it truly wasn't my fault. That's the improtant thing.

Peace and love,

Scot
 
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