How do you know for sure?

How do you know for sure?

ftgf

Registrant
First, I want to send my thanks for this site. Those of you who share your experiences and support others here have my greatest respect, for your courage and dignity.

I hope this is posted in the appropriate place, and I apologize in advance if I violate any of the guidelines for posting, as this is my first post and I am somewhat distraught at the moment.

This may ramble a bit, but I think it will be good for me to write it out. Ultimately, my question is, "How do you know for sure, that you were a victim of abuse, sexual or otherwise, if you do not have clear recollection of events?"

At 40 some years old, I am exhausted of being broken, and some fragments of very disturbing memories have been coming up. I have been searching for the excuse as to why I am broken, and all indicators point to sexual abuse. If you search for the symptoms of an adult who endured SA as a child, I exhibit nearly every single trait discused in the text. One exception is that I have vivid and distinct memories of my childhood, back to about 2.5 years of age, with no clear memories of SA. I have always been blessed with a great memory. I can recall the name of every teacher I have ever had, every phone number where I have ever lived, even back to age 3. I have searched the catalog of my brain again and again, but can find no specific event or person(s) associate with any violence against me.
However, it is very clear to me that I changed somewhere around 4th grade. Prior to 4th grade, as best I can tell I was a well adjusted, perfectly happy kid leading a charmed life. By 6th grade, I could not even look people in the eye and still can't do it comfortably to this day. I have carried many of the characteristics of an abuse victim from that time until today.

A little history. My Mother had suffered emotional problems through mid life and after years of therapy called me one day, about 6 years ago, and told me that she had been molested by her older brother when she was 12.

Since my early teens, I have always had a problem with my Mother. I do not think she was my abuser, as my fragments of memory coming up are more rape based. However, I might blame her for not protecting me from the abuse.

As for the memory fragments, nothing is too clear. I'm not sure how appropriate it is to share specifics here, so I will not go into too much detail. They are more memories of feelings, than actual events. As for specific events, they are of the possible aftermath of the attach. Bloody toilet paper, fear of taking a "#2" for the pain it will bring. I can see the bathroom clearly in my memory. We lived in that house from the time I was 4 until I was 11. I believe I have a memory of a conversation with a doctor, about maybe passing a very large #2, which might have casued my injury. However, this might be the story I was told to tell the doctor, or my mother. I'm just not sure, and drives me nuts that I can remember everything, but I can't remember the specifics of this. But if it was a medical event, why all the systoms that have followed me for three decades?

Where I am now, is exhausted of being broken. I have been fighting the good fight for 30 years, and have managed to function reasonably well for being a complete mess on the inside. I want to get well with myself. I need to get well with myself, as it is getting harder and harder to function, and I can not afford a nervous breakdown right now.

So, here are my questions and here are my fears.

How do I know for sure, if I do not have clear memories of Who, What, When, Where and How?

How do I find a good therapist, as I am sure I will need one if I am going to deal with this properly?

Fears: I'm not ready to go there yet.

Re-reading this post, I can't believe I am about to post it but it has been good for me to type it out, I think. Again, Thank You MS Community. Reading all the posts here have really helped me deal with the possibility that I was raped. It is unimaginable that someone could do something like that to a child, but as we all know too well it happens.

Fight the Good Fight.
 
ftgt,

A few of the mods are professionals in this area and they can tell you more exactly how all this works. But I think repression of abuse memories is very common among survivors and affects most of us in one way or another.

I think this is a big problem for men who were hurt back in the days when an abused boy had nowhere at all to turn and could easily feel all alone. The memories were just too much, so he had to do SOMETHING to cope. In my case, I don't feel like I forgot what happened, I just scrambled everything up and refused to think about it anymore.

You speak of feeling "broken", and if you can explain that a bit that might clarify a few things. A survivor who is repressing abuse memories from years or decades earlier may still behave in ways that indicate what may have happened.

One thing that survivors do (I did it myself) is to "negotiate" with themselves about their memories and allow parts of them back in managable bits. In your post you may already be doing that.

In any case, it can only be good for you to talk about it. This is a safe place to do that, and no one will judge anything you say. You will be believed and supported and understood here. On specific details, if they are potentially upsetting you should still feel free to include them, but add a "Trigger" warning at the top of your post.

Therapists: On the home page here there are links to advice on choosing a therapist and to a directory of therapists known to and approved by MS for their expertise in male child abuse issues.

Telling about fears and apprehensions about posting: We have all been there. It's okay. Just set your own pace. What is important is that the site be of some benefit to you in dealing with your issues, and for that you need to be comfortable with how things are proceeding for you. I'm glad you found us.

Take care,
Larry
 
Thanks, Larry.

How to define Broken?
Anger management problems
Isolation and loneliness
Depression
Eating disorder (overeating)
Body image problems
Workaholic
Substance abuse
Sexual confusion
Sleep disorder
Hypervigilance
Anxiety and fear
Dysfunctional relationships
Spiritual void or disillusionment
Difficulty concentrating
Performance-based self-value
Intimacy problems
Trust issues
Poor self-image
Disconnection from self, others and God

...I could go on.

My wife thinks I have Aspberger's syndrome, (she works in special education)which upon reading about I would believe too as I have many of the defining characteristics. However, I was not born that way. For some reason I became that way.

I have not told her about my thoughts of possible SA yet. I doubt it would surprise her, as she sees abused kids at school all the time.

Fight the Good Fight
 
ftgf,

Thanks for sharing that list. It looks like a pretty typical list for an SA survivor.

If you can do it this early, telling your wife would address (not solve of course) several of the items on the list. It was very difficult telling mine, but man, am I ever glad I did that. It's great having her in my corner.

The list, by the way, is a big step already.

Take care,
Larry
 
ftgf, firstly welcome. I'm not one of the experts that Larry refers to, but I have always believed in the following:

1. follow your instincts and what your gut tells
you.
and

2. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck,
and quacks like a duck. ITS A DUCK!

Peace, Andrew
 
Hey ftgf,

Welcome to MS. I can sense your frustration and pain regarding your symptoms vs. no real memory of cause. I think you'll find a number of us here who have experienced some form of what you described.

You made the statement "Re-reading this post, I can't believe I am about to post it but it has been good for me to type it out, I think."

I'm not doing so good right now because as I was typing a post last night on the members side, what I was typing about triggered a memory that sent me into a real tailspin.

The point I am trying to make is that for me, posting here on the MS discussion board has helped me to remember missing pieces of the puzzle. Some of them have been very painfull, others not so much. Either way they were things I would probably never have recalled had I not been posting here.

So my advise to you is just hang around here, respond to posts if you like, post your own threads when you feel up to it, and just enjoy the fact that you have friends here that understand what you are going through.

Hopefully the memories when and if they come will not be too traumatic. Whatever the case, we'll be here for you. Promise.

Courage,

John
 
Andrew,
I'm with you on trusting your gut instincts, and I might have to accept it is a duck, and go with that.

Larry,
I agree that being able to discuss things with my wife would be very good. She deserves to know what's been going on with me. However, it is not exactly simple. She is a wonderful, kind, patient, beautiful and loving woman. We have been together for about 10 years, and I am pretty sure I would be dead if she would not have come into my life when she did. However, she is 11 years older than I am. (Is there anything on Male SA survivors becoming involved with older women?) I'm sure Freud would have a field day with that one, which concerns me greatly.

My fear is not that she would leave me if she knew, it is that I would leave her if I got well. Coping mechanisms are there for a reason, and if I "got well" I believe it could change the fundamental properties of our relationship.

This does not change that fact she has been a loyal and loving spouse for the better part of a decade. I do not think I could ever betray or abandon her. Maybe there is a way for me to be well and maintain my relationship with her, but I am having trouble seeing it so far.

On another note: I had a great day today. I feel better than I have in months. I guess talking (typing) about it really helps.
Thanks for the tip on finding a therapist. I had seen the referral page, but missed the link to the questions to ask, etc. It looks to be very useful information.

I am setting a goal to schedule an appointment with a therapist by the end of the month. I know that will be a MAJOR early step for me, in this process.

Thanks again,

Fight the Good Fight.
 
John,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm sorry you are not doing so good right now. I am just beginning to understand the whole "Trigger" thing.
I have been sitting here writing a song to the boy I was 30 years ago, and have had several crying attacks in the middle of it. No memory flashes, just alot of sorrow coming up. I'm guessing this is normal, and I feel better now. I can't remember the last time I cried uncontrollably like that, I'm thinking it was the late 80's.
I might post the song in the poems section, once I wipe the snot off the keyboard. lol
Take care.

Fight the Good Fight
 
Ftgf,
Im glad you have found us here at MS. Welcome. I hear your what if thoughts loud and clear. Your participation here, regardless of its outcome for validating any abuse you may have experienced can only be good. It will either provide an answer of no or it may prove to be a yes. Certainly if it turns out to be a yes then stick around. It hurts but its worth it and working through things is vital for ones recovery.

Im at the stage myself where Im getting into deeper things I wish didnt have to, but like bad tasting medicine I know I need it. My posts, as you come across them will show that. I have my good days and my bad days. I have had some MAJOR triggers lately (things that set me off into an emotional turmoil time) and when I come out of them I still wish I didnt have to go through it in the first place, but in hindsight I see it all adds up to me gaining further understanding about myself and how my abuse has affected me. The input I get here from others is amazing and a great help and encouragement.

On your lack of memory about any abuse, and your own memory excellence about details right back to a very young age, I understand that. What I can say from personal experience is that I too consider that I have an excellent memory, however, childhood sexual abuse (CSA) is so traumatic for most guys that our subconscious mind blocks it out (or mine did at least). Ive read that this is common for many survivors.

Its not about having a good memory or a bad memory. The events are practically erased as if they never happened. So trying to regain something that youve forgotten wont generally work. For me, and many others, an event takes place that unlocks the erased memories. Then they come back with varying levels of recollection and the associated emotional pain of them.

For me, I was watching a TV program that had a rape case as the episode content. At the end of the show, a screen came up with a message saying that if you had been sexually abused you could call a number and speak to someone about it. The show aired internationally and numbers for each county (mine included) were displayed. That was my trigger. My erased memories came flooding back and I called the number and spoke to someone.

Id like to say that it was all ok from then onwards, but after I had 2-3 counselling sessions I concluded that everything was now fixed. Wrong! Some 20 years later, here I am realising that theres a lot of work for me to do and this time Im not dismissing it after a short time.

As others have said here, by reading other posts and contributing as you have, that in itself may be a part of the unlocking for you if abuse did take place. I particularly like what Andrew said about the Duck! I wish that nothing happened to you, but dont dismiss this process too quickly as theres enough smoke to indicate a fire worthy of investigation.
 
Grunty,
Thanks for your post. It helps.

I have come to accept that it is a Duck. I hope someday that I can remember everything, so that I may finally deal with it and begin to heal.

I'm beginning the search for a therapist now.
The consumer's guide for finding a therapist here on this site has been very helpful.

This site period, has been a phenominal resource for me. I have learned more about myself in the last few days, reading everything here, than I have learned in the last 25 years of trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Learning about sexual confusion, has put a huge demon to rest already.(well, at least put it on a leash.) I knew I was not gay. I didn't know why I had all this "other stuff" mixed in with my sexuality. Now it is beginning to make sense. Horrifying, but making sense.

Just a huge thanks to everyone, for this site, and the community here. It has really helped.

I have a million questions for those who walked this path ahead of me. But all in time.

I have decided to tell my wife this weekend, when I get back home. (I travel alot with my job)
That is going to be so hard, but I am going to do it. Come what may, I will do it.

Somehow I feel like I just woke up and I am in the eye of a stage 6 hurricane and about to breach one of the walls. But what choice do I have? How long can I live within the eye of the storm before if all emplodes on me?

I've noticed guys like to include quotes in their posts. I have one for everyone. It is from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, a silly little movie, that changed my life.

As Cameron states, after killing his father's Ferrari... "I am not going to sit on my ass as the events that affect me unfold to determine the course of my life. I'm going to take a stand. I'm going to defend it. Right or wrong, I'm going to defend it."

Fight the Good Fight! At least now, I have a clue as to what I have been fighting all these years.
 
I had a chuckle to myself with your comment:

Learning about sexual confusion, has put a huge demon to rest already.(well, at least put it on a leash.)
I can tick that one! I can also relate to the feeling of learning more about yourself than in the past 25 years. I've only been here a couple of months as well but agree with that.

It sounds like you are looking foward (with appropriate anxciousness of course) about telling your wife about where you have found yourself and learnt about yourself. I trust that goes well for you. Let us know how it goes.

Take care.
 
FTGF,

That's a good choice for your signature line. I like that. My daughter would also be proud of you. She's a big "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" fan.

If you need to know how to get it placed permanently on your posts click the "my profile" link at the top of any discussion board page. Then click the "edit profile" link. Scroll down to the "Profile Fields" section and enter your quote in the "signature" field.


Courage,

John
 
FTGT,

I would like to come back to something you said above:

My fear is not that she would leave me if she knew, it is that I would leave her if I got well. Coping mechanisms are there for a reason, and if I "got well" I believe it could change the fundamental properties of our relationship.
On your fears about this, well, it would be impossible to say until you have worked with a therapist for awhile.

But people marry for all sorts of reasons - including genuine love - that have nothing to do with mechanisms to cope with abuse. My wife is significantly younger than I am, so imagine what Freud would do with that one! Well, Freud can go to hell; I love my wife.

One thing that really clobbered me when I was totally new to all this was how frequently I jumped to a conclusion that would make me look bad to others or feel bad about myself. I think survivors are easy prey to this kind of thinking, and I still do it all the time.

We had so much taken away from us, and that included our sense of self-respect and basic worth as individuals. So we look at recovery as some kind of contrition or pay-back for our sins. We lose sight of the fact that what happened to us was not our fault; the guilt and shame belong 100% to those who hurt us.

I also think that because we have been so brutally robbed, we tend to look back, dwell on the past, and ask a lot of cosmic questions: "what if...?", "why me?", "if only...?" But there are no answers to those questions bro. And the life of everyone - not just the survivor - has been shaped by events in their past. You and I, for example, both met our future wives somewhere, right? It seems like a silly observation, but suppose we had gone somewhere else that night, or stayed home, or whatever? No meeting, no relationship, no marriage, etc. That could be said about a LOT of things in our lives, as also in the lives of everyone else in the world, and usually we don't pause to address these things because we know we can't change the past. We have to move forward from where we are, not where we could have been or might have been or should have been IF...

I am a university academic, and I can see that my career is entirely based on my need as a teenager to escape emotionally from the horrors of four years of abuse. I was a bookish daydreamer anyway, so no surprise: I fled to books, libraries, and study, and a lot of my drive was a desperate need to produce good grades, etc., to prove I wasn't worthless and unlovable. Once I figured that out as an adult it really bothered me and I felt like a fraud. I'm not! I am a damn good scholar, a dedicated teacher, and a crap and chaotic administrator - the perfect professor! :) I love my work and the opportunity to work with young people. I wouldn't have it any other way. How and why it all started is something I still don't like very much, but that was 42 years ago. I need to look forward and am now prepared to do that.

So the question isn't how you met your missus years ago and all the rest of it, but how you feel about her now. Here's how you yourself put it:

She is a wonderful, kind, patient, beautiful and loving woman.
Those sound like sincere words from a loving husband about a loving spouse.

I would look at it this way. There is so much crap stuck in our heads by abuse and abusers bro, and it is just lethal poison from start to finish. We need to be gentle with ourselves (stealing your line Andrew!!!) and remember that we are good people; it's what was done to us that's messed up and evil. You have every right to present yourself as that good, sincere and loving husband when you speak to your wife this weekend.

Good luck,
Larry
 
Larry,
Thanks.
A few interesting observations.

About career: It's funny, my having an issue of Performance-Based Self Value. While it is a problem for me personally, it has been great for my career. LOL I figured the more successful I was, and the more money I made, the happier I would be. Wrong.

This leads me to a question for everyone.

Should I tell my boss what's going on? Not the whole story of course, but that there are some issues in my life that I will be working on with a therapist. Up until now, I would never have considered this, as I thought it would be preceived as weakness. However, I am fortunate that I am at a point where I only report to the CEO. I know I am highly valued, and have virtually no leash on my daily activities. However, there have been times when I needed to disappear every once in a while. (I'm sure you can all relate) The last time was in Las Vegas a few weeks ago. I just couldn't face the day, (for a few days), and did my own little "Howard Hughes thing", locking myself up in the Venetian. It would have been nice if I could have told him the truth, instead of hiding it.

I'm rambling, sorry.

If anyone would care to share, I'd be interested. Has anyone told their employers? To what extent? What has the reaction been? Regrets, or glad you did it?

Thanks.

Oh yea, My wife left this moring to go see our daughter at college. I forgot she was going. Didn't want to drop the bomb on her going out the door, I am going to wait until she gets back on Sunday.

I do not think this is avoidance on my part, but.....

I just can't say how much it helps having people to talk to about all this.

Fight the Good Fight!
 
Another question.

I will need to visit the city were I grew up soon, on business. I have not been there in many years. I was thinking of going by the old neighborhood where I lived from years 4-11, to see if it would jog some memories.

Anyone have experience or thoughts on this?
 
ftgf,

Career: Man, let's get together and write the book on this one. ALL of my academic career (15 books and several hundred papers) were basically motivated by Little Larry's need to prove he was/is worth loving.

I am a bit worried about your ideas to tell your employer and go visit "the old neighborhood". Here's why.

Boss: Even if he's a great guy, he is absolutely not prepared to cope with this sort of revelation. Okay, you've done nothing wrong; WTF. But he will be totally clobbered by the news. What will he say? What CAN he say? He might ask: "So did you like it?" Imagine the catastrophe. Or he may draw any of a number of conclusions based on his more or less total ignorance of the problem and why you are disclosing. I would urgently suggest that you not do anything like this without prior consultation with a therapist.

The "Old Neighborhood": Nostalgia, yeah, again I am so with you on this page. But this is also dangerous ground. Suppose you get badly triggered by something you see or someone you meet. I know this from experience. My wife and I visited the minister who married us 24 years ago, and he now lives in the house where I grew up. I thought this is great; I will show my wife around. But "my room" was the place where I silently screamed for help that never came. The spot under the basement steps hasn't changed a bit; that is where I used to hide and think how will I commit suicide. Not good, bro.

I remember when I first came here and discovered I wasn't alone. The feeling was exhilerating! I was free! No I wasn't. I had a million things yet to learn, and a lot of them are still on my list.

One thing that's clear to me is this: Small steps, and safe ones! Work with a therapist. We don't owe it to our recovery to die a thousand deaths. We owe it to ourselves to be at peace and live a loving fulfilling life again.

Take care,
Larry
 
Larry,
I here you, and agree. I'm sure I am in a honeymoon period here. However, I decided (just like Cameron in Ferris Beuller ) in the late 80's that I was not going to sit on my ass while the world was kicking it. I didn't know what my problem was, still not sure, but I decided to take the wheel and steer my life. In a way, I have been in recovery for 15+ years, I just never knew from what!

I wrote a letter of forgiveness to the world back then. I wish I still had it, probably do somewhere. Along with the letter was a declaration to accept responsibility for my life and everything in it from here on out. I still live by that creed. It has kept me "walking past the open windows" and got me to where I finally am, which is a point were I can finally acknowledge what happened to me and start cleaning out the closets that the monsters in my mind are hiding in.

About the boss, I did not mean, tell him all about it. I meant, tell him "that I was going into therapy to work on some things that I need to deal with." Nothing more.
He would repsect my privacy, and support me in that, I am sure. Then, it would be easier to take "sanity days" as I call them, down the road.
Besides, I generate half the company's revenue. He can't afford to get ugly with me.

Don't get me wrong. I hear and respect your points. You don't defuze bombs by hitting them with hammers. Sometimes I think I went to the "Get a bigger hammer school of engineering".
LOL

I will make sure I am under the care of my therapist before I go to the old neighborhood. But, I'm going.

I know I need to come back from this battle WITH my sword, not ON it. That being said, this is a battle I choose to fight.

A month from now, I may be a basket case, but I'm committed. I'm going to ....

Fight the Good Fight.
 
ftgf,

I hear you bro. And I know how you feel. That's great. I love your metaphor:

I know I need to come back from this battle WITH my sword, not ON it.
Take care, but sure, forward is the way.

Larry
 
ftgf,

I've had to go back to the "old neighborhood" once since the s**t hit the fan. I had no choice in the matter since my aging parents live there yet. It was really difficult for me. Had a few flashbacks including the realization that my parents were emotionally and somewhat physically abusive to us kids (they've changed a lot since then). I went thru some pretty heavy emotions but am glad I did. I was under the care of a therapist at the time or it may have been much worse.

I will be thinking of you on Sunday and sending good thoughts your way when you talk to your wife. I wish you the best in that. I know I waited 5 months to talk to Dixie and after it was over I kicked myself around the block a few times for not giving her enough credit. She was wonderful.

I agree with Larry. You sound like you care an awful lot about your wife. Go with that. I think she will rise to the occasion making you love her all the more.

Courage,

John
 
Larry & John,

I have tried to respond to these last two posts for the last three hours, and keep ending up, well in not a good place. I learned something new about myself, my faith, and some resentments I am carrying.

That's the understatement of the evening. LOL

I'm going to stop typing now, and get back to looking for a good therapist. It is becoming evident that I have a lot of work to do.
 
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