how do i know if i'm gay?
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michael Joseph
Registrant
I do not think it is clear he is gay, I had the same problems, I still confused. While stubbling over labels the problem is what does this man want.
A Marriage w/ mag. and playing w himself,
A Marriage w/ male encounters,
or a marriage w/ neither.
I gave up mag. and male encounters.
That was my choice. I still struggle from time to time, but this is my choice.
A Marriage w/ mag. and playing w himself,
A Marriage w/ male encounters,
or a marriage w/ neither.
I gave up mag. and male encounters.
That was my choice. I still struggle from time to time, but this is my choice.
Michael,
I understand and appreciate what you are saying, my last relationship was with a man who was married and was just coming out. I understand the difficulties involved, but I don't claim to be an expert.
I was prompted to make my post as a result of having read the entire discussion, and having seen references to reparative therapy. I felt the urge to write as I feel it is unhelpful and inappropriate to have references made to Exodus in a folder that is for gay survivors. It is counterproductive and homophobic, and has no place here.
I wanted to express my feelings and thoughts about being gay and a survivor, in an attempt to point out that being gay means more than just sex. That loving another man, despite our abusive histories can be rewarding and a positive experience. And to try and debunk the notion that as a gay man I therefore need to feel ashamed simply because I find myself loving men.
The link I added in the second post is a satirical look at reparative therapy. It says a lot to me and that's why I wanted to share it, as it also gave me a laugh, with a serious bent to it. It turns reparative therapy on it's head to make an important point about acceptance and tolerance.
regards
blaidd
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: blaidd ]
I understand and appreciate what you are saying, my last relationship was with a man who was married and was just coming out. I understand the difficulties involved, but I don't claim to be an expert.
I was prompted to make my post as a result of having read the entire discussion, and having seen references to reparative therapy. I felt the urge to write as I feel it is unhelpful and inappropriate to have references made to Exodus in a folder that is for gay survivors. It is counterproductive and homophobic, and has no place here.
I wanted to express my feelings and thoughts about being gay and a survivor, in an attempt to point out that being gay means more than just sex. That loving another man, despite our abusive histories can be rewarding and a positive experience. And to try and debunk the notion that as a gay man I therefore need to feel ashamed simply because I find myself loving men.
The link I added in the second post is a satirical look at reparative therapy. It says a lot to me and that's why I wanted to share it, as it also gave me a laugh, with a serious bent to it. It turns reparative therapy on it's head to make an important point about acceptance and tolerance.
regards
blaidd
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: blaidd ]
farscape513
Registrant
blaidd, you have expressed it in the clearest and most straightforward manner that I have heard to date. Thank you.
George,
I just wanted to say that I appreciate your intent. I agree that sexuality is a highly complex issue. I just know that I have serious sexual identidy/role confusion because of my abuse, and that is perhaps different than sexual orrientation (which is what I think you were trying to say). I too am just trying to figure out what all of that means. So thank you for what you were trying to say.
Meanwhile, I wish there were some magical formula that I could plug my experience and feelings into and out would come the answers to all my sexual questions. But I haven't found one yet.
If anyone has some practical advise for navigating these waters of uncertainty, then I would most appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Rob
I just wanted to say that I appreciate your intent. I agree that sexuality is a highly complex issue. I just know that I have serious sexual identidy/role confusion because of my abuse, and that is perhaps different than sexual orrientation (which is what I think you were trying to say). I too am just trying to figure out what all of that means. So thank you for what you were trying to say.
Meanwhile, I wish there were some magical formula that I could plug my experience and feelings into and out would come the answers to all my sexual questions. But I haven't found one yet.
If anyone has some practical advise for navigating these waters of uncertainty, then I would most appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Rob
Rob W.
Thanks for your post. These issues are real and very confounding. E-mail me if you want to talk. [email protected]
Thanks for your post. These issues are real and very confounding. E-mail me if you want to talk. [email protected]
Hi all. I'm new here and just wanted to add my two cents. As unpopular as this may be, I tend to agree with George. I have always been uncomfortable about the hypocrisy of the gay community that accepts the late in life homosexual coming out of someone yet refuses to acknowledge that the same thing can happen in the opposite manner, meaning coming out straight later in life. The answer that I've always gotten is that it is much easier to be straight. Now on the surface, that is definitely true. But add sexual abuse to the picture and all of the self-identity issues it presents, well sexuality either way is not that easy. To the original post, I say wait, take your time, don't label yourself too quick. As long as you are not hurting anyone, and I assuming by your post that you don't feel that you are, be patient and don't feel that you ever have to label yourself in any fashion. I think extremists in either camp, straight and gay, refuse to allow anyone to be anything other than what they want because it scares them to death. Don't let their fear stop your openness and search for answers. I feel as though I owe any readers the information that I don't know where I stand as far as gay or straight or bi is concerned but I think it is sufficient to say I have thoughts and feelings on both sides and I am trying to figure which are healthy and which are not.
Even though this posting is a somewhat controversial issue, I do want to state that I'm sorry any of us are even dealing with this due to our abuse. It is easy to get caught up in this, for me, and lose sight of why this debate must occur, both internally and externally. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm assuming a lot of energy has been expanded in answering these questions and that it is truly unfair that someone came in and placed this doubt in mind. I hope all of us can find more peace of mind as we go on.
Ed
Even though this posting is a somewhat controversial issue, I do want to state that I'm sorry any of us are even dealing with this due to our abuse. It is easy to get caught up in this, for me, and lose sight of why this debate must occur, both internally and externally. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm assuming a lot of energy has been expanded in answering these questions and that it is truly unfair that someone came in and placed this doubt in mind. I hope all of us can find more peace of mind as we go on.
Ed
I thought that I would also reply to this message. I first would like to say wait a while and consider what George had to say. I personally relate to the statements that either looking at Gay Pornography or acting on it can be related to taking control of or being in charge of sexual abuse that occured in the past. I also have had doubts about my sexual orientation because of strange dreams, (nightmares) where I was in control of my past sexual abuse. Each time I would wake up thinking does that make me gay?? This led to a lot of misery in my life. I hope that this helps a bit.
In addition, you must have loved your wife to marry her in the first place.
goflyakiteV
Registrant
COULD SOME ONE TELL ME WHAT ALL THE FUSS IS REALLY ABOUT? YOU GO ON AND ON AND CONFUSE THE ONE WHO WROTE HERE FOR HELP AND ALOT OF YOU GET ON YOUR SOAP BOX AND START BASHING OTHERS WITH "WORDS OF WISDOM". I DON'T THINK ANY OF US QUALIFY AS "SHRINKS" OR TO BE SO BOLD AS TO TRY TO SWAY OTHERS INTO THINKTNG THAT "WE KNOW IT ALL"!!
PLEASE, I KNOW I'M NEW HERE, BUT I CAN TELL YOU FROM READING THINGS ABOUT THIS POOR GUY WHO WROTE IN, THAT "HE" NEEDS HELP AND DOESN'T NEED TO HERE THE REST OF US GLOAT AND BE OUTCLASSING OTHERS.
I'M 53 AND HAVE HEARD ALOT OF CRAP FROM ALOT OF DIFFERENT SOURCES, THIS ORGINIZATION IS ONE OF THE BEST OUT HERE IN NEVER- NEVER LAND! PLEASE, LETS TRY TO REMEMBER WHY WERE HER AND NOT ARGUE. PLEASE.....PEACE BE WITH ALL OF US, STRAIGHT, GAY OR OTHERWISE. WE ARE ALL WE'VE GOT....WE ARE ALL, SURVIVORS!
LET US SLEEP WELL TONIGHT, SCOT
PLEASE, I KNOW I'M NEW HERE, BUT I CAN TELL YOU FROM READING THINGS ABOUT THIS POOR GUY WHO WROTE IN, THAT "HE" NEEDS HELP AND DOESN'T NEED TO HERE THE REST OF US GLOAT AND BE OUTCLASSING OTHERS.
I'M 53 AND HAVE HEARD ALOT OF CRAP FROM ALOT OF DIFFERENT SOURCES, THIS ORGINIZATION IS ONE OF THE BEST OUT HERE IN NEVER- NEVER LAND! PLEASE, LETS TRY TO REMEMBER WHY WERE HER AND NOT ARGUE. PLEASE.....PEACE BE WITH ALL OF US, STRAIGHT, GAY OR OTHERWISE. WE ARE ALL WE'VE GOT....WE ARE ALL, SURVIVORS!
LET US SLEEP WELL TONIGHT, SCOT
I've just stumbled onto this site. Charguyus, I understand your quandry. I am in EXACTLY the same situation. I too am married (13 years now) with a daughter, and question my "identity/orientation" (how's that for pollitically correct). I'd really like to chat with you sometime; if you want, drop me an email.
N_S
[email protected]
N_S
[email protected]
Words like 'gay' can not be defined in any scientific way. If you look at sexual identity across the wide spectrum of human society, the range is so great that no single set of such categories makes sense.
Most "normal" human beings are "attracted" to members of their same sex at some time in their lives, especially when under special circumstances. Humans are very different from almost all other creatures. There are only three kinds of creatures that I know of that engage in SEX. Almost all creatures mate, and that at only specific times. Humans have sex as well as Bonobos, the ape closest to us, and dolphins. Humans, bonobos, and dolphins all engage in some sort of promiscuity from time to time as a social act and as recreation.
I am not a therapist so I can not advise you personally or prescribe any kind of therapy. I don't know anywhere near enough about you to make any kind of such a judgement, but if you do have a happy, satisfying relationship with your wife and family, then you have to decide just how much that means to you. How much do you love her and how much does she love you. Together, you have to decide where you want your marriage to go. Kids need a father, and there is no such thing as a no-fault divorce. Love for your kids can carry you through almost anything.
Having a son to take care of taught me more than anything else I have ever known. Nothing else matters besides that. I adopted him, and was single parent in Istanbul for eight years before he went away to college. It made it possible for me to face demons which nothing else would have gave me the strength for. That is my story.
Even being gay does not necessarily mean you can't be happily married to your wife. It is a matter of how much you love each other as friends and are willing to take care of each other and how much you need each other.
I am convinced that childhood (or even adult) sexual abuse screws us up so much that it makes it impossible to say what I would have been if I hadn't been abused. I know that sex on its own is no substitute for close relationships with people you care for, and so I do not think, on its own that that is necessarily the issue. It is something you need to explore in yourself in a place where you feel secure, with the support of the people you care about.
IMHO.
Most "normal" human beings are "attracted" to members of their same sex at some time in their lives, especially when under special circumstances. Humans are very different from almost all other creatures. There are only three kinds of creatures that I know of that engage in SEX. Almost all creatures mate, and that at only specific times. Humans have sex as well as Bonobos, the ape closest to us, and dolphins. Humans, bonobos, and dolphins all engage in some sort of promiscuity from time to time as a social act and as recreation.
I am not a therapist so I can not advise you personally or prescribe any kind of therapy. I don't know anywhere near enough about you to make any kind of such a judgement, but if you do have a happy, satisfying relationship with your wife and family, then you have to decide just how much that means to you. How much do you love her and how much does she love you. Together, you have to decide where you want your marriage to go. Kids need a father, and there is no such thing as a no-fault divorce. Love for your kids can carry you through almost anything.
Having a son to take care of taught me more than anything else I have ever known. Nothing else matters besides that. I adopted him, and was single parent in Istanbul for eight years before he went away to college. It made it possible for me to face demons which nothing else would have gave me the strength for. That is my story.
Even being gay does not necessarily mean you can't be happily married to your wife. It is a matter of how much you love each other as friends and are willing to take care of each other and how much you need each other.
I am convinced that childhood (or even adult) sexual abuse screws us up so much that it makes it impossible to say what I would have been if I hadn't been abused. I know that sex on its own is no substitute for close relationships with people you care for, and so I do not think, on its own that that is necessarily the issue. It is something you need to explore in yourself in a place where you feel secure, with the support of the people you care about.
IMHO.
Thank you, Charyguy, for posting your message. I am divorced, have two kids, have used pornography, acted out sexually with men, etc...and also still confused. Reading your questions and the responses has been very helpful for me.
I have no answers. The only thing I know that is critical for my healing and recovery is to remain open to all the possiblities and keep looking for who i am. My healing and recovery has mainly been a rediscovery of myself...peeling off one layer of abuse-caused pain and trauma at a time to find that little boy hiding away, desparately looking for love and acceptance.
I read many good and helpful thoughts and ideas in the responses to your post. While I bascailly ignore anyone telling me that I am gay or straight (how could he/she possibly know without knowing me, my story, my struggle, etc.?), I am still able to take the good thoughts in and just leave the rest behind. I hope you were, too.
Good luck to both of us...and the others, too...in our continuing search! If you feel like emailing, feel free to do so.
Thanks again.
LanceC
I have no answers. The only thing I know that is critical for my healing and recovery is to remain open to all the possiblities and keep looking for who i am. My healing and recovery has mainly been a rediscovery of myself...peeling off one layer of abuse-caused pain and trauma at a time to find that little boy hiding away, desparately looking for love and acceptance.
I read many good and helpful thoughts and ideas in the responses to your post. While I bascailly ignore anyone telling me that I am gay or straight (how could he/she possibly know without knowing me, my story, my struggle, etc.?), I am still able to take the good thoughts in and just leave the rest behind. I hope you were, too.
Good luck to both of us...and the others, too...in our continuing search! If you feel like emailing, feel free to do so.
Thanks again.
LanceC
Hey Pondboy and Everyone,
I have the very same problem and it is driving me nuts. I'm married with one kid and was raped hundreds of times between 11 and 16. It all can back in flashbacks last fall. I've been to hospitals, shrinks, therapists, SA meetings, whatever and I'm still screwed up but feel a lot better than last fall. The desire to ack out the rapes and gain contol seems to be the answer. I did start out with another man. My attention is drawn to the part of my body that was raped "my ass" so I need sex with that to try to gain control. I'm not a little boy any more so I picked the hardest form of anal sex that I could find on the net...FISTING !!! I know that this sounds nuts but I was completly nuts and confussed. I found a man that had experience and let him do it to me. He was slow and let me control his movements...I loved it !! Now you say great, you are gay but I taught my wife to do it to me and love it even more? Now is it men or my butt??????? Now all the shrinks that I have seen say that it is my butt and that it is OK to have my wife fist me as much as I need it. We have done it 155 times so far, up to 9 times a week at first but down to once a week now. I do have contol over it, which makes me feel a lot better. All the shrinks are amazed that I came up with this myself, I did it without knowing what I was doing! Is it men that you need to have sex with or that part of your body that was raped....shrinks say that it is the part of your body in most cases. I want to have sex with men but hate them at the same time...beat 3 men up before I let one fist me. I'm I gay??????? or just very confussed??????
Eddie [email protected]
I have the very same problem and it is driving me nuts. I'm married with one kid and was raped hundreds of times between 11 and 16. It all can back in flashbacks last fall. I've been to hospitals, shrinks, therapists, SA meetings, whatever and I'm still screwed up but feel a lot better than last fall. The desire to ack out the rapes and gain contol seems to be the answer. I did start out with another man. My attention is drawn to the part of my body that was raped "my ass" so I need sex with that to try to gain control. I'm not a little boy any more so I picked the hardest form of anal sex that I could find on the net...FISTING !!! I know that this sounds nuts but I was completly nuts and confussed. I found a man that had experience and let him do it to me. He was slow and let me control his movements...I loved it !! Now you say great, you are gay but I taught my wife to do it to me and love it even more? Now is it men or my butt??????? Now all the shrinks that I have seen say that it is my butt and that it is OK to have my wife fist me as much as I need it. We have done it 155 times so far, up to 9 times a week at first but down to once a week now. I do have contol over it, which makes me feel a lot better. All the shrinks are amazed that I came up with this myself, I did it without knowing what I was doing! Is it men that you need to have sex with or that part of your body that was raped....shrinks say that it is the part of your body in most cases. I want to have sex with men but hate them at the same time...beat 3 men up before I let one fist me. I'm I gay??????? or just very confussed??????
Eddie [email protected]
You are being honest with your feelings, I have and still go thru periods of the same cofusion. My wife divorced me with out even trying to understand about my sexual abuse, it was a mess. I acted out after wards .
Imiss the kids and please consider what your future would be without a family life, God is good. If you feel guilty, that means you have a consicence
I wish you well.
dbr
Imiss the kids and please consider what your future would be without a family life, God is good. If you feel guilty, that means you have a consicence
I wish you well.
dbr
michael Joseph
Registrant
I feel for you, and understand.
I love my wife I am married to now.
I do not want to hurt her.
I am not looking for sex.
Just Love.
I was left as a kid to pick up the pieces, and did not know how.
I love my wife I am married to now.
I do not want to hurt her.
I am not looking for sex.
Just Love.
I was left as a kid to pick up the pieces, and did not know how.