LONG ***May Trigger***
Dear friends and fellow survivors,
During this discussion, I have spoken of my feelings based on my experience and shared what seems important to me regarding the way all survivors, including teenagers are treated here at MS.
Some, provoked to anger by what they heard me saying, reacted to my post with great vehemence and at great length.
Exchanging points of view and offering ones perspective to a conversation is a lot of what this forum is about. No one is expected to go lock-step with the popular way of seeing things.
This is a very valuable asset we have as survivors and I especially want to make sure it is available to us all.
So I have no problems with the opinions expressed which are in strong disagreement with what I said and how I said it.
Especially I do not wish to argue with anyone about this subject or any other for that matter.
Still, I do feel that as the discussion has progressed, the things that I actually wrote in my post have been changed by others and by their emotions engendered by the exchange.
I would like to take this opportunity to show the difference between what I said and what others heard me say.
For example, the second sentence in my original post was written specifically, with capital letters, stating my true and honest feelings.
I wrote:
"I have absolutely NO DOUBTS WHATSOEVER about the good intentions of those who participate in this discussion.."
Here is what one reader, Roadrunner, heard and repeated back as if they were my words:
" In all honesty, why dont you just say how you feel? You suspect anyone who takes an interest in teen members as being a pedophile."
Another reader, FLRich wrote in reply:
"I find his statement EXTREMELY insulting."
OK, now, I said that "I have absolutely NO DOUBTS WHATSOEVER about the good intentions of those who participate in this discussion,"
In other words, I said that I feel that without a doubt those participating in this discsussion have only good intentions.
How is that an insult? Sounds like a vote of confidence to me.
Have any of you stopped to consider that you may not be the only people who come across this thread titled 'how to talk to teens'?
That perhspa my strong language and warnings might be addressed to others who may not be as trustworthy as you all?
Can you maybe imagine how a predator trolling this web site might react upon seeing a thread in the public forum titled 'how to talk to teens'? Like , "Wow, cool, this is a place I can come and find some teens to 'talk' to.".
Here's an example of that: I have a very good friend named Tina who lives in Oregon. While setting up her email address, she very innocently chose '
[email protected]'.
Within the first day, she received dozens of lewd and lascivious emails from complete strangers drawn my the use of the word 'teen' in her address. Teen is the nickname her husband uses as shorthand for Tina....maybe you get the idea. But the predators were drawn to it like flies to a carcass.
I have asked the Administration to forbid the use of the words 'kid', 'teen', 'young' and others in the screen names that members may choose for the same reason. They have resisted my suggestion and I respect that.
Another example of disparity between written and heard:
When I write:
"For those who wish to focus their attention on teenaged survivors, develop special relationships with them or engage in private or outside contact with them, you are treading on very shaky ground."
OK guys, if you're not doing or planning to do any of those things, then this does not apply to you.
Besides I have already said that I do not doubt your good intentions.
But it does apply to anyone who comes along and thinks that they can do that here on this site and get away with it.
With the subject of 'how to talk to teens', it seemed pertinent to also address the topic of 'how NOT to talk to teens', as that has been a serious problem in the past on the MS website.
Roadrunner wrote in his original post:
"Forget the stock answers out of the books. How can we help a frightened teenager feel safe enough to begin his task of healing and start talking about it to people in his flesh-and-blood world?"
These two sentences are part of why I felt it necessary to address the difficulties faced when dealing with teenagers in the cyber environment this Discussion Board operates in.
The idea of 'forget(ting) the stock answers...' does not sound at all supportive of the official Discussion Board policy.
It sounds to me like "Hey let's think up new ways (besides the ones the Admin has selected) to deal with these teens.
"How can we help a frightened teenager feel safe enough to begin his task of healing and start talking about it to people in his flesh-and-blood world?"
The notion of talking about it to people in his flesh-and-blood world is a good one, but this is not the flesh-and-blood world here, this is the cyber world. And our relationships with teenagers must stay in this cyber world. It is strictly forbidden to meet in person with teenagers from this site.
This sentence triggered me as a suggestion that meeting face to face "flesh and blood" (god, I hate that phrase!) might somehow be a good idea - which it definitely is not, at least for members of this site.
I said specifically that it was not about you all in my opening, yet you insist on feeling insulted! What can I do about that?
That is exactly the opposite of what I honestly feel and exactly the opposite of what I said. What can be done when one's very specific words are ignored and others imputed in their stead?
Josh, you did share your experience, and I appreciate your contribution. You wrote:
"I would like to share a little about my personal work to discuss a point on this topic.
I am currently volunteering for an organization in Peru that creates aldeas..."
I notice that you are doing your work within the context of an organization and that you talk about discussing this with your supervisor.
Well MaleSurvivor is also an organization and we all agree to work within it's context also. And our 'supervisors' here have decided that contact between teenagers and adults should be more carefully scrutinized and limited than other types of relationships.
Just as you respect the guidelines of your organization and the guidance of your supervisor, we are all asked to do the same here at MaleSurvivor.
You don't say for sure, but I would guess that you work in person with the young people entrusted to you.
That is obviously not the case here. We are not face to face.
There has been much written and said about the great difficulties that come from interacting within cyber communities.
The anonymity, while a blessing in some ways, can also result in a complete lack of accountability. People can very easily pretend to be who they are not.
Communication is more difficult without facial expressions, hand gestures and body language.
For this reason and others, MaleSurvivor encourages teenagers (in fact, requires them) to share their concerns, problems, worries etc. with a person trained specifically in dealing with juvenile survivors. His name is ScottyTodd.
Here is what ScottyTodd had to say in reply to what I wrote:
"Danny - I appreciate your words, caution and warnings!"
Do you seen the difference between how ScottyTodd responded and the other reactions expressed here?
ScottyTodd, the head of the ModBuddy program designed to help and safeguard teenagers on this site, goes on to say:
"This is a site dedicated to recovery from childhood sexual abuse which should be THE MAIN FOCUS...just as I totally agree that for me, my recovery comes first! Before I can help others stuck in "the quicksand", I need to be on more solid ground so we both don't flounder or sink!! We need to be strongly aware of where we are and what we are doing in a very personal, totally honest way!"
So, that is what our 'supervisor' has to say about what I wrote and how I expressed it.
Another member read what I wrote and reacted with the following statements:
"If I were to apply what you stated, what comes to my mind is a reaction of cold indifference to the minor needing adult attention from someone who can relate to the
matter at hand."
Cold indifference? That comes to mind after reading my statements such as:
"We may support others, listen to others, encourage others and extend love and courtesy to others, teenagers included, of course."
"support.." "listen" "encourage" "love and courtesy" to "others, teenagers included" these are my words, yet "cold indifference" is what is heard?
And again the same member writes:
"Again, the only answer to this statement is to offer cold indifference to the minor seeking guidance or comfort, which in reality is quite hurtful."
This comes after my statements:
" I welcome all survivors teenaged or other aged to MaleSurvivor and hope for them the priceless gift of recovery."
"The only answer..." it seems that is not the answer I suggest at all when I write:
"treat each and everyone here with equal kindness and consideration, without regard for their age."
There's the answer I suggested, not the 'only answer of cold indifference' heard by the member in question.
Later in the dialogue, roadrunner finally modifies his statements:
"I would stress that I meant how can we do this here on Male Survivor, and not, for example, via personal meetings or telephone calls. I think that goes without saying."
I am glad to hear that emphasis added. That is exactly the message I was trying to get across - not particularly to those participating in the discussion, but once again to anyone and everyone who might come across this thread in the future.
I want to make sure and not just as an afterthought that all who come here know that we value all our members and that certain members, such as our teenagers, are especially cared for and guarded with great attention.
That's the message I want to get out there. Don't mess with MaleSurvivor teens! We are ready for you if you do.
Roadrunner frames 'the problem' in these terms:
" Some of us will remember that this issue came up last year and several teens said they felt "left out" or ignored and considered that the available literature did not really speak to them or relate to their problems."
"This issue..." did come up last year. It was discussed in detail by the Mod/Admin staff and also by the Board of Directors. Many steps were taken to remedy the lack of literature etc.
More importantly the Board created the Mod Buddy program which is now nearing it's first six months of existence.
It does not matter to me much what others may do in the private lives, there certainly is very little I can do to influence their choices.
But when it comes to matters concerning the MaleSurvivor organization, the Discussion Board and the Chat Room, it does matter to me what others do.
What I choose to do is encourage us all to follow the guidance given after due consideration by the Board of Directors and the Admin.
That guidance regarding teenagers is that their welfare is best protected by a trained individual in the person of the Mod buddy.
Does that mean we can't talk to minors? Of course not! Did I ever say we shouldn't talk to minors?
No, of course not!
What I said was:
"We can welcome teenage survivors as we welcome all who seek to recover from the effects of sexual abuse."
I would add, "We can and should...".
Finally, I wrote:
"The problems that have developed on the MS Discussion Board have not come as a result of too little attention being given to teenage survivors.
Instead it has come from members inappropriately usurping the role of the designated moderators and Mod buddies in dealing with teenagers."
I stand by this statement one hundred per cent.
I have never heard one single complaint about teenagers not receiving enough attention on the MS discussion board.
I have heard and seen a lot of confusion, hurt feelings, conflict and pain caused by adult members acting with too much attention to younger survivors.
The older survivors began to argue and fight amongst themselves about who was best qualified to 'help' the teens; the teens themselves sometimes were drawn into these 'popularity' contests; on some occasion teenagers reported untoward advances made to them.
It was in this context that the Board and Admin decided to try out the Mod Buddy Program.
It was my choice to decide to try and support this program to the fullest. That means that if a teen survivor comes to me with a problem such as ongoing abuse, secrets to be kept, gossip about others etc. then I am going to ask the Mod Buddy to talk about that with the teen survivor.
I am not going to take on the role of advisor, counselor, mentor, father-figure to the teenagers.
Once again, I reiterate, this is meant to apply to MaleSurvivor only. What you wish to try to do outside of here is your business and none of mine.
My experience here has been that there is an incredibly complex set of dynamics, full of very strong triggers involving both the adults and the teenaged survivors.
These dynamics are too much for us as survivors to handle. Sure we can be friendly, sure we can offer encouragement and support just as we would to others. But just as we would for others, we should recommend that the teens seek APPROPRIATE help, which on this site is the Mod Buddy, ScottyTodd, aka Howard.
One final note: I wrote:
""You cannot give away something you don't have".
meaning that unless I have the abilities and skills needed to successfully navigate life, I cannot give them to another person, teenaged or other aged.
Another member wrote that he disagreed with me.
OK, dude! If you don't have something, how the hell are you going to give it away to someone else? You don't have it to give! Is that not logical? Of course if you do have it, well then, no problem.
Some have suggested that I have an agenda of my own in this discussion of teenagers and survivors.
And yes, I do have an agenda.
My agenda is make sure that everyone who comes here with the idea of exploiting, using, abusing, toying with, hurting, seducing, dominating or playing guru to any teenage survivor or anyone else....that person knows that there are people like me here that will do whatever they can to prevent it.
That's my message. And as I said in the very beginning:
"While I have absolutely NO DOUBTS WHATSOEVER about the good intentions of those who participate in this discussion, I am compelled speak my truth from my heart."
If you have no bad intentions, my message is not meant for you. If you decide to read it as if it was meant for you, even though I explicitly said it wasn't, then read it again. And as I said before"
"Read the black part." Not between the lines, not the white part (there's nothing there but your own imaginings and fears).
And before we begin to divide ourselves up into groups of leaders and followers, adults and teenagers, good guys and bad guys, let's remember:
"Let's remember that we were all equally unable to deal with the effects of sexual abuse on our own..."
Together we can recover.
There is so much more I could offer to refute the things that are represented as my view, but I am tired and I am sure you are too.
Thanks for reading this far. I'm bowing out of the discussion now.
Thank you all for your feedback. It is much appreciated.
Regards,
Danny
***DISCLAIMER***The views expressed by me here are mine alone and do not represent any 'official' BoD or Mod position. But you already knew that, didn't you?