helping teens to talk

helping teens to talk
R

roadrunner

Registrant
In the news forum jsomerville has posted a valuable story about a guy who has had his license to practice psychiatry revoked in several states for inappropriate actions with children.

The accused perp makes a fuss about never having been convicted of anything, but check out the story. The parents in one case, for example, didn't pursue the matter because they felt it would be too traumatic for their son.

Tell me about it! In 1963 the man abusing me was caught with me about 20 seconds after he had finished with me and thrown me on the floor. I told the man who walked in on us - my Scoutmaster - that if he told my parents I would kill myself. And I was serious.

Result? I poisoned myself with drugs and alcohol for years, sank into denial, and ended up telling my parents at the age of 56.

How do we get past this problem? I wish I had the answer, and I so feel for young guys struggling with the terrible question of how and who to tell. Forget the stock answers out of the books. How can we help a frightened teenager feel safe enough to begin his task of healing and start talking about it to people in his flesh-and-blood world?

The answer is that they will do that when they feel ready. My further question to that is just this: How can we help?

Let's really think about this. These guys are here at a young age and they have an incredible opportunity to heal and regain their lives decades before we ever did. How can we help to ensure that the opportunity is not lost?

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry

Good post.

Now the opinion I am going to give here is mine and mine alone, I talk for no one cept myself.

The big thing here is stigma, shame and discrimination. Stigma, in as much that 99.9 of the general public have not a clue what CSA is about and they have not got an inkling as to what the effects are.

Shame? We feel shame because of the way perps over the years have been spouting propaganda that puts all those they abuse into an emotional straitjacket mainly through what the public will think of us if we do disclose. This has got to stop and the only way that can be done is through educating those (public, politicians, police, lawyers and the courts) that believe in such myths as the "Vampire syndrome".

If I got my leg broken tomorrow playing soccer (I hate that word) would I feel shame? No of course I wouldnt, it was an accident. If got hit by a car that mounted the pavement and ended up in A&E tomorrow would I feel shame? No I wouldnt. That would be an accident.

So why is it when we have something done to us they we have no control over do we feel shame?

It is because society demands that little boys must act like little men. They should be strong enough to fight their abusers off, they should be independent be able to stand on their own two feet, they shouldnt cry.

Well this little man was abused over a period of years and he didnt cry, he tried to stand on his own two feet and be independent. He failed miserably. Why?

SHAME. It bound me up in such a way I couldnt break free, this binding was reinforced by his addictions, acting out, violence. All that happened was the shame got stronger up to the point where he couldnt take it any longer and tried to take that one way ticket to oblivion, but even that didnt work.

Christ can I do anything right?

Yes I can and I did. I stopped trying to kill myself and faced up to the fact that I had been abused and from that point I started to learn about CSA and it effects and those that abuse. I found out that I was not alone and in a short space of time my shame fell away.

Today I have not got a shameful bone in my body with regards my abuse. I have shame for some of the other things I have done in my life regarding domestic violence but I am now beginning to see that the violence was caused by the anger I had held for so long inside of me. I fully accept my responsability with regard by past violent outburts. Its a shame my abusers cant take their responsability as seriously but that is the nature of the beast.

Today I will talk to anyone about my abuse, thats why I am getting involved in politics because of this. I just dont care what they think of me, because they sure cant think of me as badly as I thought about myself for so many years.

I know who I am today and I am not ashamed any longer. No use crying over spilt milk but by god I wish I had discovered this twenty/thirty years ago. It a whole new life and I feel I am a better human being for my experiencies.

It is hard to say at first but if you practice everyday saying toyourself "I am not ashamed of what happened to me" believe me you will start to believe it. Because howevermuch you try to deny it you know deep down inside your being that it was NOT YOUR FAULT

I'm proud to be a survivor for that word survivor alone says that I have triumphed over adversity and with each new day I learn a little more about myself and fellow survivors.

I feel passionately about this.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"
 
if youv'e never been to the chatroom here that is where you can see this problem realtime ,there are kids there talking who are at that point where they know they need to tell but cant .it is heartbreaking to talk to them and so frustrating because you want to reach out and shake them and make them tell ,some of these kids are still being abused ,but we cant make them tell no one can force them to break free .its like i think damn all that kid has to do is tell anybody and the abuse would stop ,but its not that easy .so i talk to them almost everyday and think about them all the time which is all i can do.if youv'e never been in the chatroom it is a very special place ,where things are happening realtime. much of the healing i have done here has come from the chatroom ,so sometime just go there and listen to these kids ,who are in a place we all know to well .
 
Larry,

You've touched a nerve with me; I so agree with what you're saying. The chance to skip the years of denial is too huge not to be taken. I'm thinking in particular of one of the members of chat whose mother is a therapist, yet he can't or won't tell her about what happened to him. Is male shame encoded that early?!? What can we say to break that chain?

Adam, good for you and for your work in chat; you're one of the anchors for the younger members in there, and if I haven't said it before, you really impress the hell out of me with your commitment to healing yourself and helping others do the same.

John
 
This is something that I think about often - how can we as adult survivors reach out to the kids and young men and women who are either still being abused or just starting life as an adult with the abuse hanging on to them like a cloak of slime?

I know that Kirk is making a lot of noise on our behalf here in the UK, and he is doing a great job. People are listening to him for two main reasons.
Firstly his abusers are high profile famous people, so media interest is there.
Secondly, and most importantly, Kirk is the kind of guy you can't ignore, because he's right. Who's going to be brave enough to say to him "go away, you're talking shit" ? Politicians, and other influential people, have to be seen to be 'doing the right thing' so they have to listen and at the bare minimum make the right noises. But if guys like Kirk say it often enough to everyone then somewhere along the line someone will do something.

What Adam, and I've no doubt others do, in the chat room is equally important as well.
It's right at the other end of the spectrum to hounding politicians I know, but just as vital.
Young people NEED to know that they will be listened to and believed, and there's no better platform to start this process than with other survivors.
We know what it's like, we know how they feel. And we can develop and nurture a level of trust that would be hard to find elsewhere.

Survivors who have done most of their healing often find that they have talents and abilities they didn't realise they had before, and some of choose to use them in helping those that will surely follow us. Not ever survivor can, will or should do this. But those that can form the backbone of every resource that is available to survivors.
And we should be proud of that, and constantly push to achieve Larry's ideal of reaching every young person who's suffered like us.

Dave
 
How can you all help those younger survivors

"Don't silence their voice"
 
i think that how far along we are in healing doesnt matter to these kid in fact i'm sure that sevaral of them are further along than i am ,they help me even more than i can help them their trust is somethng very healing for me.
 
Larry,

This is a question that needs, no, MUST be answered.

My senior year in high school, I told the school custodian. I think I told him because he was the only adult who ever talked to me. He just said "Good morning Darrel." every day. That's all. I reached out to him for help and he flapped his lips to everybody.

That was my worst nightmare come true. That was why I took so long to tell it in the first place. That is why I promised myself that I would never tell another soul. That is a story that must not be repeated. Somehow, someway, we must get the message out to kids that we can be trusted and then prove it to them by being trust worthy.

This brings me to another point, and that is mandated reporting laws. While these laws are well intended, they may be part of the problem. Kids are aware of these laws. They feel that they can't tell a teacher or other professional such as nurses, doctors, therapists and in some places even clergy, because they know that these professionals are required by law to tell. In this case, complete trust between an adult and a minor is illegal and the kids know it.

I am not saying that these laws are not needed. Its just that we need to rethink these laws to make disclosure by kids less threatening. In many states here in the US, a minor female can obtain an abortion, no questions asked, no parental notification or consent needed; no reporting required. A boy on the other hand, or girl if she is not seeking an abortion, saying any thing about his or her abuse to a teacher, find themselves interrogated by any number of frightening people and quite possibly in foster care. Now how scary is that? Why the inequity? These kids are well aware of this, to say nothing of the shame and self-doubt that a sexually abused child feels, which makes disclosure in the best of circumstances extremely difficult.

Our professionals need better training in the area of how to handle these issues. I know, Im a nurse. The one day seminar I had to attend on mandated reporting spent all of ten minutes on sexually abused children and an equal amount on abused elders, about an hour on physically abused children and most of the rest of the day on battered women. A week or two with more equity to all groups would be more in order.

Im not sure I have the answer, but I believe that this is one area in which we need to focus at least some of our attention. These are my thoughts. I hope they are worth while.

Love ya

Darrel
 
I suppose we cant actually ensure that teens or anyone else here wont loose the opportunity to heal from this. That young guys are here breaking the silence is great. For anyone little kids, teens or adults we only choose to talk about this when it feels safe enough to do so. Whatever we can do to make people of any age feel as safe and trusting as possible is maybe as much as we can do.

I guess there is a danger, which has been pointed out in the past of older guys telling younger guys how lucky they are by comparison to those who didnt begin to deal with this until much later in life. I dont expect that would be helpful to hear be it true or not. There is also a risk that in our eagerness to spare young guys the anguish that older guys went through that young guys end up feeling pressured and are not encouraged to explore and make their own choices.

Here at any rate listening with consideration and not foisting our own agendas on others is as good as we can do, if they are still being abused, awful as that is, we cant report or stop it or force guys to report it much as we wish they would or could. Listening well is often the most we can do and that in itself is a great deal. It breaks the secrecy and isolation that we all know so well. Being able to talk about it here as many of us have experienced helps us to talk to the flesh-and-blood world.

Peter.
 
They need to know that they can trust before they will speak to anyone. If adults have abused them, then why should they trust another adult!

In the UK, we have a telephone helpline that Children can ring - it's called Childline! The NSPCC (national society for the prevention of cruelty to children) and the Samaratins are also good organisations to contact. Children can ring them and just talk about their problems and seek additional help if they really need it. If they ring, they can use an assumed name (just like here).

I don't know what organisations exist in other countries?

Best wisehs ...Rik
 
Larry,

I wish I knew how to help teens talk. When I was abused as teen, there was nothing like MaleSurvivor for a guy to come to and talk. A place such as this would have been great back then. (Wouldn't work, no Internet) Then I could talk to someone who I knew wasn't going to judge me, or try to shame me. I also could talk to someone who, if they passed me on the streets an hour later, wouldn't know me from Adam.

There is such a stigma attached to any type of sexual abuse, whether it be against a female or male. I know that society accepts and tolerates females who are abused more than they do males, but even then, that female is ostricized by many. She may lose friendships, relationships, and God knows she loses her self esteem. People treat them with kid gloves from then on.

"She's that poor girl that got raped. She is so brave for telling and helping to prosecute that rapist."

Still, to many, she is, and always will be, "that poor girl that got raped." That is an abused person's defining moment in life. It seems to dictate everything that occurs in their life from that moment on.

What I'm saying is that the after effects of telling, if you can get past the initial reporting of the abuse, are far worse. The stigma is something that truthfully hasn't gone away for female victims. Guys know this. They know it will tougher for them. Many are able to come forward when they are older and have been able to process their abuse and are in a better place to report their abuse. They are able to think more rational. They are thinking with an adult brain.

We all know that peer pressure is the probably the greatest it will ever be when we are teenagers. All we want to do is fit in with everyone else. Sexual abuse mucks that up, in our minds, whether our peers know of it or not. I can remember being paranoid that EVERYONE knew and that they were just trying to be nice to me. These feelings were so real until I couldn't stand it if someone was nice to me. What did they know? Who told them? Would they tell anyone else? Actually no one knew a damn thing except me and my perps, and we were not going to tell a soul.

I think we need to somehow, for lack of a better word, advertise sites such as Male Survivor to teens. Let them know that places like this exist. Teenage girls are well aware of rape crisis proceedures and crisis center available to them. Teenage boys don't know of any places such as that. I am 50 years old and live in a city area with over 1 million citizens living here, and I can tell you there is not one program for male rape victims here. They tell you that there are programs for the women, and they "may" allow men to join them. What woman that has been raped by a man, wants a man to join their group?

All this to say that we should promote sites such as this one. We should promote centers and agencies that do help male rape victims, where they are available. We should encourage our community agencies to incorporate into their programs, services for males who are sexually abused. Perhaps then, teens may feel more safe telling of their abuse.

Many of you addressed the issue of shame. No matter how many programs are available and in place, shame is what keeps us quiet. I know now that it is "not my shame, but my perps' shame." I can also tell you that I know that I only have told a select number of people about my abuse, because the stigma of shame is still there.

I thank God for each of you here at MS. I many times ask God why your abuse was "allowed", but I always thank Him for leading you and I to this site. I KNOW that this site has saved my life. I know this. Teens need to know it, also, so they don't feel they have to carry it around inside of themselves for 30+ years like I, and many others have done.
 
one question that bugs me is how can i be comfortable telling a kid it will be better if he tells ,when in many cases ,mine included it was not better after i told, it was just a different kind of hell to live in ,no less painfull in its own way than the abuse was. that is a perfect example of why we need places and services for abused boys so they dont just get put in foster care or detention ,because they have no where else to go . instead of getting the help i needed i got lost in the system ,i felt like a criminal being punished for telling adam
 
I can't speak for what it's like anywhere else in the world. I do know that when I spoke up to the police (authorities) on 17th Oct 2004, I was believed (as I had been when I told 3 friends a few years earlier).

I was abused from September onwards of 1969, groomed first, led into 'games', then abuse!

My experience may be different to what others will endure, but there is only one way to find out. You cannot find out until you are ready!

I am still going through the court experience and aiming to jail the perv!

I do know that I feel so much better now than before I spoke up. Yes there are issues, but now I can discuss them and people listen!

As for what others speak - my name is still not know in our town (though I expect that to change). My brother-in-law drinks at a local pub on a Sunday afternoon.

The comments he has heard since the court case began are mainly along the lines of: 'Whoever it was that came forward first must be very brave, he deserves a medal'. 'I was walking past the co-op the other day as JF walked out...someone shouted at him...you're going down'! 'I hear that they've caught up with JF at last'! 'Years ago, my brother told me to stay away from him'!

Only one person has raised negative comments: 'Why do they come forward after so many years of saying nothing, it must be money'!
This person was shot down instantly! The perv has no money (or so I believe). This person was also told: 'Maybe they have children or grandchildren of their own now and don't want him to get his grubby hands on them'.

It fits in with the post I made recently, just after the perv attempted to change his plea to not guilty (don't know if this is accepted until this friday). Went to watch the rugby 8 days after the attempted plea change & this old bloke came and sat with us - he brought up the subject of paedophiles and how they should be hung / shot or whatever unpleasant method of retribution could be applied to them.

The general feeling I get is that no one likes paedophiles (except paedophiles) and that people in general are much more understanding than I ever expected.

I told, and it was good for me!

I stand up for myself so much more than I ever did!

Best wishes ...Rik
 
Fellow survivors - I think we all agree that early intervention can stop a lot of the ruin we have encountered in life! Llyody and others said one part of helping is - to LISTEN!! Many times teens just need someone who understands to listen to them. Too often those they approach feel they "must" immediately rescue the teen or need to give advice. LISTENing is the most important thing anyone can do - Why? Because if we remember how we felt the first time we discovered "we are not the only ones" and "we are not alone". Simply listening is a really good beginning.
Secondly, after listening, try the best you can to answer their questions. Try to be to the point! If you don't know how to answer, say so and refer them to others on the site that possibly can answer them. NOTE: Often we are ready to tell the teen about our own situation; however, the teen is so scared, confused, etc. they are not ready to hear our story and what worked for us. They need to know we understand and keep the focus on them. There will be time for our story later.
Thirdly, be very aware of your own recovery. Many of us are in fragile states of recovery or are just getting "our sea legs" and helping a teen can "push many buttons". We can regress in our own journey. If you are a rescurer OR begin to realize you're focusing on the teen so you don't have to focus on yourself and your recovery OR if helping is affecting you in negative ways - the smartest thing you can do is refer the teen to someone you believe has a stronger foundation. There is nothing gained by our own regression or loosing focus on what we need to recover.
If the time is not right for you to help now, there are plenty of chances to take up the cause later. The most important thing here is to show that we can recover from CSA and that, since we've recovered, we know the way to go.

Howard
 
I thought it might be valuable to post some of the things I myself have heard from teen survivors here about why they can't tell:

  • Nobody could believe what happened to me.
  • My Mom and Dad will get mad at me.
  • I'm too ashamed.
  • It was my fault - I liked it/started it/didn't say no/didn't run away.
  • If I tell, everyone will know.
  • I will lose all my friends/I will get called a fag, etc.
  • If I tell, the abuser will "get me".
  • I can't make the words come out.
  • The abuser (older brother) will get into trouble.
All classics of course, and the same reasons WE didn't tell when we were boys. Some things just don't change, even with all the resources available.

Much love,
Larry
 
Howard,

I thought this was especially important:

If you are a rescurer OR begin to realize you're focusing on the teen so you don't have to focus on yourself and your recovery OR if helping is affecting you in negative ways - the smartest thing you can do is refer the teen to someone you believe has a stronger foundation.
Click to expand...
There is a huge difference between caring and offering support, on the one hand, and trying to rescue someone, on the other. We do have to remember that when a teenager shows up here, then as survivors most of us probably feel an urge to help prevent the tragic consequences of denial and silence that we suffered. But we cannot "rescue" a teenager, in the same way that we cannot rescue another adult.

And there are plenty of opportunities for us to fight against abuse and lend a hand - when we ourselves are ready. We don't help things if we get entangled in a teenager's issues - or anyone's issues - at the expense of our own emotional well-being. It isn't a wounded soldier's fault if he cannot drag anyone other than himself off the battlefield.

For those of us who can help, it's amazing what just our mere presence can do. Sometimes a guy just needs to feel that someone knows and understands and cares.

I hope that even this little thread will help. Teens who come here need to see that we notice them and care about them, and on their terms.

Just some thoughts.

Much love,
Larry
 
***TRIGGERS*** May provoke feelings of anger

This topic and the thread attached to it make me very uneasy.

While I have absolutely NO DOUBTS WHATSOEVER about the good intentions of those who participate in this discussion, I am compelled speak my truth from my heart.

It seems to me that the ideas being pursued here and the attitudes that support them are a precarious step down a very slippery slope.

***TRIGGERS*** May provoke anger

I am very suspicious of adult men who focus their attention on teenage boys.

I realize that this is my problem.

That being said, I agree very strongly with ScottyTodd when he says that if (though I would say "when"):

"you're focusing on the teen so you don't have to focus on yourself...".

The problems that have developed on the MS Discussion Board have not come as a result of too little attention being given to teenage survivors.

Instead it has come from members inappropriately usurping the role of the designated moderators and Mod buddies in dealing with teenagers.

A great deal of turmoil has resulted from these type of interactions.

For this reason and others, I am very surprised, almost shocked, that this topic would come up again so quickly.

We can welcome teenage survivors as we welcome all who seek to recover from the effects of sexual abuse.

However, to single them out for our 'special' attention is extremely troublesome for reasons which have been threshed out over and over again.

Once again, I find myself in complete agreement with ScottyTodd, who has been designated by the Board of Directors as the ONLY member explicitly chosen to offer 'special' attention to minors on this site.

He says:

"The most important thing here is to show that we can recover from CSA and that, since we've recovered, we know the way to go."

My actions and my attitudes will speak much louder than any words in dealing with survivors teenaged or otherwise.

By striving to seek my own recovery and sharing honestly about the progress and pitfalls involved, I help myself and others, teenagers included.

I am not qualified to offer any special advice or counsel to teenagers. And even if I were so qualified, my first duty here must be to seek my own recovery and not to exercise my professional duties.

I welcome all survivors teenaged or other aged to MaleSurvivor and hope for them the priceless gift of recovery.

For those who wish to focus their attention on teenaged survivors, develop special relationships with them or engage in private or outside contact with them, you are treading on very shaky ground.

You will be putting you, the teenager and the recovery of us all at risk.

I am sure that there are some who will bristle at my comments. I have been bristled out before on this very subject.

However, much painful experience here has shown attempting to divide survivors into age groups does not work.

In fact, it is extremely counter-productive.

Let's remember that we were all equally unable to deal with the effects of sexual abuse on our own and treat each and everyone here with equal kindness and consideration, without regard for their age.

I wish for all of us the gift of healing.

***DISCLAIMER: These remarks are strictly my own and should not be interpreted as official MS or BoD or Mod positions. But, I bet you already knew that.***

Thanks all,

Regards,

Danny
 
Danny - I appreciate your words, caution and warnings! This is a site dedicated to recovery from childhood sexual abuse which should be THE MAIN FOCUS...just as I totally agree that for me, my recovery comes first! Before I can help others stuck in "the quicksand", I need to be on more solid ground so we both don't flounder or sink!! We need to be strongly aware of where we are and what we are doing in a very personal, totally honest way!

Howard
 
danny they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions,well you picked one hell of a way to show yours ,ok maybe i'm angry ,maybe i'm shocked ,
"i'm very suspicious of adult men who focus their attention on teenage boys? i can't believe you would say that in a place like this . well i have spoken with the younger people here and in chat ,but not at my suggestion ,they have asked me to talk to them ,i have asked the mods if i should and was not told to stop talking to them,maybe its because 2 years ago i was a teen myself ,i have spoken with a mod about this and was not discouraged from talking to them ,so should i assume that only mods are allowed to talk to the younger people who come here ,when they ask me for advice should i tell them i'm not allowed to talk to them ? most of the time there is a mod present in chat to insure safety .also unless they state their age no one knows how old they are .so now if i am asked a question by someone i think might be a teen should i tell them that in this place of truth and freedom i'm not allowed to talk to them? that none of us can talk to them only the mods? and by the way most of the younger people here are afraid of the mods ,you know ? authority figures scare abused kids ,it seems like somewhere we have crossed over from being safe to being paranoid ,this post upset me because i have asked many people ,mods included why the younger survivors relate to me ,and if i should even be trying to help them .i have yet to be told that doing so is a violation of any rule or in any way dangerous to anyone . at this time there is a survivor who comes here daily who has not been here for several days ,but i guess i'm not supposed to be worried that he is ok .i never intentionaly tried to start a conversation with the younger people ,they read my posts listened to the guys in chat and then came to me for advice .i know this was not aimed at me personaly ,but in the interest of safety i will refrain from talking to anyone underage ,but will someone please explain to them why it is not good for anyone older than a teen to try to help them ,why the people they have depended on and opened up to are no longer able to respond to them ? i would feel like a fool trying to explain this to them . I AM VERY SUSPICIOUS OF ADULT MEN WHO FOCUS THEIR ATTENTIONS ON TEENAGE BOYS ,that is just sick man .turnning something good and healing into something dirty and sneaky ,is not what i thought this site was about. i cant believe that anyone would make that statement in a place filled with abuse victims .why not just make it clear that you think anybody who talks to younger survivors is a perp lurking here looking for victims , i find while your post makes perfect sense that one statement is an insult to every male survivor here and anywhere else . i'm sorry this reply sounds harsh but i am extremly insulted by what your post implies. if you were talking about the world at large when you say that i agree one hundred percent ,but not here ,not in ths safe place .no it just dont work here
 
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