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beccy

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Help everyone,


my bf has just broken down and told me he loves me so much but thinks he is gay,

we're talking round and round the issue and I'm so confused right now, he really doesn't seem to know what he actually thinks about himself and I realy want to believe he wants me, but I'm so full of anxiety right now it's untrue. So much of what he's telling me sounds so abuse related, but then he says his therapist keeps asking him things like, ''is his hetrorosexual side strong enough to make this relationship work,'' and ''maybe becuase he knew the abuse was wrong, he deemed the fact he was gay wrong too''.


my head is just totally done in right now and I'm trying to be rational, but I'm so scared............


I know I've not been able to respond to himsexually for the past six months and am worried this is affecting his thoughts on the whole thing, and I've said so to him.

One propblem seems to be the fact he can't actually remember what happened between him and the teacher. This I believe is getting in the way of progress on this issue. His therapist also asked him if he thought we were both using the abuse as an excuse as to why we're experiencing so many sexaul difficulties............................what do you all think????????????........


I'm sorry, this is probably not clear enough.................I know I'm only trying to see what the truth through the eyes of what i want, which is him, but he seems so confused,


I think I will probably have delayed shock symptoms


peace
Beccy
 
Beccy,

I'm sorry I don't have anything for you on this because it's not part of my relationship, but I've read enough here to know that it's a very real problem for alot of the men who were victims of csa, and by extension, the women who love them. I'm so sorry you're going through this after so many years and children together. I can't imagine the heartache and frustration. I'm thinking of you.

ROCK ON........Trish
 
Thankyou Trish,


I have told my bf that sexual identity issues are very normal.....


He sounds very preoccupied by what his therapist might be thinking/meaning and also what I might be thinking/meaning.

He said his therapist said to him that he was projecting his belief that he's gay onto the T, and then seeing HIM as the threat to our relationship/family.

He also said when he masturbates it's far more likely to be about a man. It sounds very much to me like it's all about being used, which is clearly abuse related. When I asked him if he wants to have a relationship with a man, it became very clear that the only reason to have a relationship, would be to get this specific kind of sex all the time. When I asked him if he saw love as part of this fantasy 'relationship', being loving like he is with me, telling a man he loves the top of their head for example, holding eachother in bed, stroking his cheek, chatting, organising life/home, everything, he said no. So it sounds like just sex, just the act......


By that point I was very druk and lying on the bed feeling really sick. Then he came and told me he feels positive about us again now. I just don't know what to do.......I tried to explain to him that we've not been sharing any sexual intimacy at all for the past 6 months, as I haven't been able to reciprocate any of his(mostly physical) advances. I tried to explain that it's very hard to trust him again and that's been getting in the way of me being able to be sexual with him. I don't know what he wants and all I seem to able to do is push him away and push him away and all of this must have been affecting him/his recovery, and influencing his sexual feelings........he told me that about 4 months ago, his hetrosexuality seemed like a fluid thing.......but I feel I've been sabotaging things and I'm ruining any possibility we had, and then in a next breath, I think maybe that's not true at all and all my feelings/behaviour have been normal for someone in my position. So maybe I'm just totally crazy wanting to believe he wants me......but he never instigates intimacy......I know this is a difficult area for him, but I just can't instigate it at the moment, I need to see that from him to trust him again to be able to be sexual again. He also sounds totally preoccupied by the fact I'm judging him to be gay. I honestly think he's reading all the intimacy/sexual problems to mean that. I tried to explain all the other stuff about trust and how I'm having severe difficulties 'feeling' much of anything a lot of the time. There's a lot of numbness there for me, like I'm switched off and dead inside. Honestly I just feel too much of a mess myself and wonder really how we can actually be of any use to eachother,


What do I do now? I feel depressed today....how do you live with someone/carry on having a relationship with someone who doesn't seems to really know what they want at all? Except he said he loves me and does want to be with me.......this life is just awful and I'm not sure how much more I can take....don't even feel like I can get dressed, how will I work? Look after the kids? What AM I SUPPOSED TO F*****G DO?


peace
Beccy
 
B,

My heart goes out to you. If it's any consolation, I can see that your bf is wishy-washy at best about his orientation. Let's hope this is a period that will pass. I know it's almost inevitable that many if not most survivors will go through the not-sure phase about their sexuality. Remember, try not to draw the final conclusion yet. You all are not through this period yet. A week from now or a month or more, and things may become clearer. All I keep hearing is that progress is slow. THere will be many ups and downs along the way. The end isn't here yet so try not to give up. I know we want so much for this to be OVER !!!! myself included but it won't be over until all issues are exhausted. I dread ever hearing my husband say maybe he's gay because that would scare me to death so I know where you're coming from....but look at the good side -- your bf does say he LOVES YOU and that's not a small thing, and he is wishy-washy about his gay feelings. WHICH is understandably normal after what he's been through. I'm sorry, I wish I could say something that helps, all I know is that it's hard to be patient. I wish we could fast-forward a year and see how things are b/c I totally believe that only time will be able to solve some of these things. Try to take a mental timeout if you can. It's exhausting when his and your feelings fluctuate so often in one day.

Do the best you can. That's all you can do. ANYONE would have a hard time with this. Be the best mom you can be. I will say a prayer for you. I know it is hard. At least you know he loves you. It's going to take lots more time, lots. Keep reading others' success posts. No matter how things are today, I'm not going to draw the final conclusion until I, like so many others on this board, can look back at my posts today, a year from now, and see the difference. Go easy on yourself.
 
Thanks BH,


we talked all day today. I said we should just be friends till he's in a place where he can choose what he wants. For some reason it ended up with me saying, ''but you can't choose, can you?'' and he just looked at me like he has no power to choose anything, so I said, ''well you can't have me then''. I walked into the kitchen. He was watching me and I just thought, well it's not my fault we're stuck here together like this, so if i have to find a place of total autonomy(if that's the right word) within this situation, that's my right. I felt like, I'm so sick of all this, Id rather just enjoy a feeling of my own space. Then he said, ''well I choose you, Ilove you, no-one else. That other stuff's just sex and that's not worth losing this''.


We had an intimate, kissing moment in the kitchen. It was full of plenty of difficult moments for both of us, but we maintained communication. He was very aroused and after a while longer of talking, he said he wondered when Id be ready for sex again.

I want to have a whole relationship again and love him fully, but I'm so scared he'll break my heart.

His fantasy with a man seems to be so far removed from love/life/home/reality......I have to trust him again, but it's so hard............he seemed so ready to believe he's gay. It seems his therapist has been asking lots of testing questions to get him to really think about his sexuality, but he seems confinced his T believes he IS gay and he's just pushing for that truth. His T thinks this is all projection and my bf is putting all his own fear onto the T and seeing him as a threat to our relationship.


It's all so complicated I feel like my head will explode. I'm very good at rationalising everything and putting all the facts i know into the picture, but the aftermath is so full of panick, anxiety.

He has been sexual towards me many times over the past 6 months(mostly physical advances), and I haven't been able to reciprocate for so many reasons, so now I reckon that's supported the worry about being gay as well. I feel like I've made it all worse than it could have been. I have to keep reminding myself none of this is my fault, but I just feel like I've been a rubbish partner to him in so many ways, I'm not surprised he's not convinced he wants a woman.

It's just hard to keep going over how he sat there, crying, telling me he loved me so much, but thought he WAS gay. He fantasises/lusts more about men. Just going over everything, it no longer seemed as clear as that.....He said if we're having sex/being sexual more of the time, then he fantasises about that. Why would that turn him on if he was gay? I think the issue here is bisexuality mixed up/confused by abuse and a long(first and only) relationship full of intimacy problems. BUT, I don't want it to be that I only WANT that to be the truth, so that's what I'm choosing to see.......but WHY would he come on to me so often, if he wasn't sexually attracted to me? I don't want to get used, that's my biggest fear....


peace
Beccy
 
He also said when he masturbates it's far more likely to be about a man. It sounds very much to me like it's all about being used, which is clearly abuse related. When I asked him if he wants to have a relationship with a man, it became very clear that the only reason to have a relationship, would be to get this specific kind of sex all the time. When I asked him if he saw love as part of this fantasy 'relationship', being loving like he is with me, telling a man he loves the top of their head for example, holding eachother in bed, stroking his cheek, chatting, organising life/home, everything, he said no. So it sounds like just sex, just the act......
Click to expand...
I recognise that Beccy, and I would guess a lot of other survivors would as well?

It's certainly true for me, or at least it is to a point right now.

That feeling, as you describe above, is something that grew very slowly from after the abuse stopped until it peaked about 30 years later when I acted out - when the fantasies came true.

All that time I chased girls until I got married, and from then on I admired them endlessly ( I still do as well :D )And although the fantasies were evolving from actual memories of the sex that I now know to be abuse, to stronger ones of "what if the sex had carried on with those older boys?" and eventually to fantasies of sex with other men.
The later fantasies didn't ever involve any man I knew or had seen, and never involved anything that could be considered 'gay' such as kissing or cuddling.

I've been approached a couple of times by gay men in pubs or clubs, and ran off! That wasn't my scene at all, and I did the same when women came on to me. ( I'm not some stud muffin, I just got 'lucky' with some slappers in some dubious bars sometimes :rolleyes: )

But some guy flashing his tackle in a toilet was different.

Now I realise that what I saw as a sex act was actually a mixture of emotional, behavioural dysfunctions that used sex as some kind of release.

Is that a cop out? no, I don't believe it is.
And although I firmly believe that sex can be detached from emotions, good or bad, it's not an excuse to carry on acting out.

There are people who try to accomodate a partners acting out into their relationship, by reasoning that it is purely a sex act that that person uses as a release of some kind.
I can't think of one person / survivor that I know who's ever been successful doing this. Sooner or later a pile of crap surfaces, jealousy and sexual frustrations, and the relationship takes a turn for the worse.
I'd hazzard a gues that most swingers end up seperating as well.
People just don't tolerate sexual relationships outside of their own.

That's the number one reason I had to stop, I knew I wasn't gay and loved my wife.
And by making that decision I've found that the fantasies, and gay porn, no longer work for me.
But I can still fantasise about the woman up the road and look at straight porn, that works! ;)

Dave
 
Dave, you say that you never used to fantasise about men you'd met, or seen, but my bf said he does, what does that mean?

All the stuff you say about the dysfunctional element to this sex, I agree with with on a personal level, as I've been there myself and I now know it's not based on 'feelings', just some strange imbalance and wrongly learned message from earlier on in life.....but that's just me and I'm not my bf! I can't know for sure any of this stuff, till he figures it out for himself.


On the subject of sex in our relationship, I'd like him to be able to be less 'urgent' about it. When he comes on to me, it's always very instantly physical and very driven and I feel pressured. There are so many problems during this time, too, I wonder if really , he just wants to try and get to the sex part quick in order to bypass that.....but obviously that all leads to me feeling uncared for! I am getting more able to be in charge to some degree now, which means I'm not doing things I don't want to do, but when I feel pressured like that, it's like I don't feel 'safe' with him. I don't feel like he's going to treat me good. In the kitchen yesterday when we were being intimate, he said, ''I want to f*** you''. I know he was just horny for me, but I just didn't feel special enough to him when he said that. Am I a prude?! I'm sure I never used to be like this, but perhaps at the moment, with everything being so unsure, that's just too crass and not loving enough? I always wanted him to be more loving with me, and for us to be able to indulge in the passion and sensuality of it, but everything makes him tense apart from rushing towards the 'goal'.


sorry if I've been a bit graphic/personal here, it's just that sometimes, I have no idea if what I want is normal anymore,


peace
Beccy
 
Beccy
I would ( don't ? ) fantasise about sex with 'a man'. My fantasy is about sex with a male sexual organ.

I don't build a fantasy around any detail such as what the man looks like, how old he might be, where we meet, what we might say or anything that might personalise the fantasy.

All I want is the basic act of giving a bj or receiving anal sex.
If I look at gay porn I would look for close up pictures that didn't show the complete men or the setting they were in. My favourites were bj pictures showing the giver from the side / back of the head, just enough to see what was happeneing but not enough to identify the giver. Maybe that should read "identify WITH the giver"?

Because that was my intention, I wanted to see the act and picture myself doing it. Finding a picture of a man who looked something like me was a bonus.

When I did act out I never talked or made any 'social' contact at all, I just did it and left.
I often wondered if I would / could find another man who could fulfill my fantasy on a regular basis. But even back then I somehow decided that it probably wouldn't work. Now I'm certain it wouldn't.
To have regular sex with another man would meant some kind of relationship, and that wasn't what I wanted, it would have also meant making some kind of deal / arrangement for me to fulfill my tight fantasy. But what about his fantasy and desires?

That wouldn't have worked at all..

More later, gotta go
Dave
 
There might be some contradictions between what I've posted here and my other reply to Beccy.

I find it very difficult to describe the way I feel about the sex acts that I indulged in when acting out, and how they relate to any confusion about my sexual orientation.

Much of this is related to the time span of my fantasies forming, going out of control, acting out, getting help, and arriving at where I am now.

There have been times I was convinced I was gay, but with the wonderful benefit of hindsight I can see that the evidence I based that conviction on was very flimsy.

Perhaps I'm over intellectualising my whole predicament? Maybe I've broken down my life into such tiny and identifiable parts that it ahs become confusing in a different way than it was before?
I'm not sure? All I do know with 100% certainty is that my life is better now than it was in 1998, so whatever is going on, I'm happy with it.

So, how can I admit to enjoying giving blow jobs and despise why I gave them?

One is a simple physical pleasure, the other is mental torture.

Eventually I seperated the two things, I dealt with the torture, and the pleasure became something I didn't miss. Much like giving up smoking.

Dave
 
Dear Beccy,
Hmm. I am not sure that I have something to add to this thread, because I am not a MALE survivor, but I still am a a female survivor of abuse from men, and for many years (over a decade) I identified and acted as a lesbian. I think of myself as heterosexual today, and consider my lesbian orientation to have been valid for what it was, when it happened. No more, and no less. And so maybe I have something to say of benefit here.
There is an ENORMOUS amount of confusion about what constitutes sexual "orientation" and sexual "preferences". And people have very strong feelings about it all, often positions they become quite invested in holding no matter what comes their way to challenge it.
But you know what really matters to us as individuals is what we each choose to do, choose to think, choose to believe. Are there aspects of sexuality that are beyond "choice"? Yes, probably. But my own experience, as well as what I have witnessed, makes me inclined to believe that people also change--in either direction. As much as we would like to be able to predict what someone will do based on what other people have done, it is impossible: we each have our own path.
I am sorry to be as vague as I am, but what I am trying to convey is my conviction that sexuality is FAR more mysterious than we generally like to let on. It is partly what we do with our bodies, yes, but it is also much more than that. And I for one believe that everyone is "sexual" on some level regardless of their conduct with other people. (That's probably too far afield, though.)
I do want to suggest to you, Beccy, that you continue to pay attention first to the most simple, basic, ordinary things of life. I know that you are feeling panicky and in crisis--and that is not a good state from which to make serious decisions. All of this talking, all of this urgency to figure things out sounds as though it is exhausting to both of you. Can you each find it possible to back off from the need to have things settled and decided? Are you eating properly, getting fresh air, sleep, exercise? I know, that is way easier for me to say than it is to do--for myself included! But all of this is so complex, it is likely to take time to resolve in a way that is healthy and sustainable for you and your bf and for your two children.
Regardless of what happens between the two of you, you will always be parents together. That is no small consideration, for now and in the future. Your children deserve parents who can be there for them--no matter what you and your bf's attitudes toward each other may be. (Unfortunately, I speak about this from experience too!!)
When you are in the grip of a crisis, it feels as though you are in a rapids or a whirlpool, caught in something inescapable. But there is the wider, quieter, calmer river just beyond this tumult. See if you can get yourselves some breathing room so that your thinking and feeling about all of this are not quite so panic-driven. Whatever happensyou stay together; you separatewill not be the end of the world. You are in the middle of great upheaval, but the only way out is forward. Let the river carry you along. Trust in your buoyancy. You have the resources; you can do it.
I am pulling for you. We all are here.
Peace,
HG
 
Thankyou so much Dave and Honeygirl,


this is such a difficult time for me at the moment, like there's a dark cloud hanging over anything which might be good and in all the quiet moments, unless my mind is totally occupied with somthing all consuming, all this stuff comes crashing back in......


peace
Beccy
 
Honeygirl,

I know if we broke up it wouldn't be the end of the world, and I do have this horrible urgency to KNOW NOW, then I can know where I'm truly at and get on with my life, whatever that might be.......and I know that's not reality....

The good thing I have is that I've come through a very difficult time before in my life, come out the other side and been ok again, so I know that's possible. I'm not too afraid of that............although I so don't my kids to suffer their parents break up. It's just this at the moment which is so unbearable.......


I know he feels certain about things again now, but equally I know he's likely to worry a lot more yet......it's a waiting game......


But I honestly do feel that he's been trying to connect with me on an intimate level and it's been ME not connecting....and he says he feels the whole of his sexuality feels like a fluid thing and I do agree with you about that issue Honeygirly. We do change sexually, it's NOT all set in stone and with that in mind, I find myself thinking about the very deep connection I felt between us when we first met.....sexually, lovingly, deeper than other perhaps more fleeting attractions to people. We've both expressed our belief about this at different times to eachother. Now, I find myself thinking, THATS what being in love with someone is, THAT'S harder to find with someone......we can all want other things sexually and they can feel very attractive to us and important to experience, but my own experience of those things has been a disapointment by comparison to what I feel when I'm with bf. But that's me and only he can know those things about himself....


peace
Beccy
 
Dear Beccy,
I can completely relate to the idea and feeling of just wanting to KNOW, to have things be decided. It is excruciating to be in the middle, unsettled and unsure. Why, I was like that just last week--and I am sure I'll feel like that again soon.
That's the thing. The certainty we crave is probably not to be found externally.
Here in the States we just had our annual "Thanksgiving" holiday. It's a complex tradition, overlaid for me with both personal and political negative associations. But, it's also a truly fine opportunity for taking the time to feel gratitude. And although my life is definitely not easy, not settled, not secure--I'm underemployed, in huge debt, with no guarantee of work beyond the spring--I also must admit that I have much for which to feel grateful.
I say this not to urge you to think about what you might have to be grateful for yourself, but because this is one technique that works for me, to remind me to stay in THIS moment. Not dwelling on the past, which is beyond my reach, nor fretting about the future, which will come in ways that I cannot expect or control no matter how hard I try! All I can do is to be ready, by attending carefully to what is here right now.
It sounds like you and your bf actually have a rare opportunity that you are indeed taking, as difficult as it is: you are trying to be honest and genuine with each other. What a challenge, and what a gift. As tough as it is, at least neither one of you is pretending to be someone else. This is pretty great, no? Ultimately, this is something you will continue to have and to know, again regardless of what you wind up doing with him. That it is possible to be open and fully yourself with someone else.
I encourage you to remember at least three times a day that you are a strong and capable woman, that you are lovable and loving, that you can grow and learn. You show a lot of courage, being in there, hanging on, insisting on getting through to yourself as well as to your bf.
In all the bustle of daily life, caring for very young children, there are still some quiet moments available for you to remember what's really important.
Peace,
Honey Girl
 
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