Help me be a better father to my son.

Help me be a better father to my son.
B.D.F.

B.D.F.

Registrant
** Possible Triggers **

My wife and I have a 5 year old foster son who has been living with us for over a year and who we are hoping to adopt one day. We know that he has been exposed to all forms of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse; but due to legal restrictions, DSS cannot provide many details on the abuse that he has suffered. I'm trying to avoid disclosing many details of his abuse because I don't think that is fair to him, but I can tell you that he has been physically abused to the point of leaving scars, has witnessed intense domestic abuse between his biological parents on multiple occasions, has regularly watched his biological parents engage in sexual acts, has been transferred to multiple homes because no one is able to tolerate his behavior, and has been repeatedly molested by another child under the age of 12.

These are the things that we know. God only know what else this poor kid has been through.

My wife and I have taken trauma classes and read books (currently reading The Body Keeps the Score based on recommendations from this forum) about the affects of trauma, especially in children. However, I would love to receive some guidance and feedback from this community on how we can best support our son moving forward. Quite honestly, I don't even have specific questions. I guess I just want to find out what either helped you survive your trauma or maybe what you wish someone would have done during or after you experienced childhood trauma. Ultimately, I just want to do everything possible to set this kid up for success. I know I can't undo his past, but what can I do, say, or model to make it easier for him to move forward?

Here are some behaviors that we have noticed, but have had trouble addressing in the last year.
  • We have noticed that he is prone to outbursts and tantrums (sometimes violent) when he doesn't get his way. We have tried to address this from multiple angles, but it still remains an issue.

  • He can be a bully to his peers and even to older kids. He loves to "puff his chest" so to speak and act stronger and tougher than those around him. A couple kids have responded to this behavior by being beating him up. He hasn't been in any really bad fights (no blood), but his ego is definitely hurt afterwards. I've tried to get him involved in multiple sports in an effort to build his confidence, but he doesn't seem to want to get better at anything (he gets frustrated VERY easily). Either that, or he just isn't that interested in anything we have tried thus far.

  • He talks a lot about girls and he is constantly telling us who he is going to "marry". However, he does not talk to girls, and when he does, he says very hurtful and demeaning things to them. We have caught him trying to sneak into the women's bathroom or sneak a peak at my wife a few times.

  • He has very few friends. I've watched him play with others and he seems to constantly want to show them up or prove that he is better than them in everything. It honestly seems like his insecurities prevent him from normal interaction with his peers.
Again, I'm not asking for anything specific and I realize that some of this behavior is perfectly normal for a 5 year old boy. I would just love to receive some feedback and thoughts from survivors that have maybe been down this road and can provide insight into my son's needs. I am more than happy to answer questions or provide further details (within reason).
 
B.D.F. said:
** Possible Triggers **

My wife and I have a 5 year old foster son who has been living with us for over a year and who we are hoping to adopt one day. We know that he has been exposed to all forms of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse; but due to legal restrictions, DSS cannot provide many details on the abuse that he has suffered. I'm trying to avoid disclosing many details of his abuse because I don't think that is fair to him, but I can tell you that he has been physically abused to the point of leaving scars, has witnessed intense domestic abuse between his biological parents on multiple occasions, has regularly watched his biological parents engage in sexual acts, has been transferred to multiple homes because no one is able to tolerate his behavior, and has been repeatedly molested by another child under the age of 12.

These are the things that we know. God only know what else this poor kid has been through.

My wife and I have taken trauma classes and read books (currently reading The Body Keeps the Score based on recommendations from this forum) about the affects of trauma, especially in children. However, I would love to receive some guidance and feedback from this community on how we can best support our son moving forward. Quite honestly, I don't even have specific questions. I guess I just want to find out what either helped you survive your trauma or maybe what you wish someone would have done during or after you experienced childhood trauma. Ultimately, I just want to do everything possible to set this kid up for success. I know I can't undo his past, but what can I do, say, or model to make it easier for him to move forward?

Here are some behaviors that we have noticed, but have had trouble addressing in the last year.
  • We have noticed that he is prone to outbursts and tantrums (sometimes violent) when he doesn't get his way. We have tried to address this from multiple angles, but it still remains an issue.

  • He can be a bully to his peers and even to older kids. He loves to "puff his chest" so to speak and act stronger and tougher than those around him. A couple kids have responded to this behavior by being beating him up. He hasn't been in any really bad fights (no blood), but his ego is definitely hurt afterwards. I've tried to get him involved in multiple sports in an effort to build his confidence, but he doesn't seem to want to get better at anything (he gets frustrated VERY easily). Either that, or he just isn't that interested in anything we have tried thus far.

  • He talks a lot about girls and he is constantly telling us who he is going to "marry". However, he does not talk to girls, and when he does, he says very hurtful and demeaning things to them. We have caught him trying to sneak into the women's bathroom or sneak a peak at my wife a few times.

  • He has very few friends. I've watched him play with others and he seems to constantly want to show them up or prove that he is better than them in everything. It honestly seems like his insecurities prevent him from normal interaction with his peers.
Again, I'm not asking for anything specific and I realize that some of this behavior is perfectly normal for a 5 year old boy. I would just love to receive some feedback and thoughts from survivors that have maybe been down this road and can provide insight into my son's needs. I am more than happy to answer questions or provide further details
Click to expand...

Hey

I had alot of bad examples of how to behave growing up, I experienced some of what your son has

I also had some really good examples of how to behave
I'm so thankful for these

I think it helps children to see examples of the behaviours your expecting from them like, sharing, how we interact with our friends and relatives as well as with them

Since becoming a parent myself I became really aware of my own behaviour
And how it impacts
So I set out to be what I wanted my son's to be
To try and opt for healthy coping strategies, to try and learn how to express myself

Your son has only had one year of stability so far. one year of your examples vs 4 years with his birth parents

I thrived off calm consistent people who had boundaries with me., i knew where I stood what behaviour was expected of me and what behaviour I could expect from them

Tantrums I believe are an expression of the fact a child's totally overwhelmed like today my toddler was totally overwhelmed as he doesn't understand what is happening around him
Older children can also feel overwhelmed especially if an environment or situation is new to them or provokes thoughts and feelings they either can't express or can't explain or verbalise

Even as an adult we can feel overwhelmed and struggle to express ourselves when faced with new or extreme circumstances

learning to label emotions, for one of our sons we had pictures of all different faces happy, sad, surprised, frustrated, excited, etc that helped him to learn what we was feeling and what he was and other people
Helping him actually helped me, I have personally grown with my older children

Sorry I have babbled on I hope you find this forum helpful in your families journey

Wishing you all the best
HL
 
If I were to offer my opinion, & it is just that (an opinion), I would say this. Your son is used to chaos, or at least that is what he came to understand was normal for the first four years of his life. It can't be overstated how those issues you described him experiencing with his biological parents impacted his brain development & understanding of human nature, relationships, love, & how to express himself. Aside from the traumas he experienced with his bio parents it was also traumatic each time he was displaced & sent to a new foster home. I hope he is involved with a therapist, but if not DSS should be offering those services. He is used to being discarded & cast aside, & therefore it is important for him to be told & shown that he is loved, even when he acts out. I suspect outside of the time he has been with you he never experienced that in a normal healthy way. Identify things that you can do together so he can get that positive interaction with a father, & as Healing light mentioned do everything you can to present what is expected of him thru your own actions & behaviors. It will take time, & a lot of patience, but he will come around eventually. He has been thru a lot in his short life & as we all know here, it cannot be undone so easily. Best of luck & thank you for taking this on & caring for your son. He definitely deserves it.
 
i agree 100% with what both of you said it will take a little time to undo the horrors that poor boy has been through, its really sad and it sounds alot like how my life was i'd say more but memories are flooding my mind now i hope it all works out for you all, BB
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

He does have a therapist, but in my area we have seen huge turnover in therapists and have had to switch practices a couple times and were finally put on months long waiting lists due to understaffing. His current therapist isn't specialized in trauma, but was available and he seems to respond during his sessions, which is something that has not happened with his past therapists, so I'm hopeful.

Healing light said:
So I set out to be what I wanted my son's to be
To try and opt for healthy coping strategies, to try and learn how to express myself
...
Helping him actually helped me, I have personally grown with my older children
Click to expand...

I love this strategy and overall mindset. Of-course, I always try and model good behavior for him, but I can't say that I've been deliberate enough with my intentions. I need to dedicate myself to "being what I want my son to be", even when he is acting out or trying to push me away. I'm going to write this down and post it on my wall as a constant reminder.

Healing light said:
I thrived off calm consistent people who had boundaries with me., i knew where I stood what behaviour was expected of me and what behaviour I could expect from them
Click to expand...

Any tips on how to establish these boundaries and expectations? We've tried to be very clear of our expectations daily, sometimes hourly, and we try to articulate and demonstrate our expected behavior as well, both in general and as a response to his actions; but he continues to push boundaries and purposefully break rules even though he knows the rules as well as their consequences. Sometimes it feels like he only enjoys negative attention, so he purposefully breaks rules in order to elicit a negative response from us. I know this is probably not the case, but it was one of the reasons I wanted to seek feedback from men who could relate to my son's past childhood in hopes that they could shed some light on his thought process.

@Hiding from Myself: Thank you for the encouragement and guidance. I so want to show my son love through patience and healthy, positive experiences. I want him to feel safe, to know that he has a home where he belongs, and to know what it feels like to be a part of a healthy family that only wants the best for him. I'm just struggling with the patience piece right now, but your words confirm that I just need to buckle in and be the man that my son needs, even when it is hard.

I originally started browsing this forum in an attempt to better understand the affects of childhood trauma, so I might possibly understand how to better connect with my son. The stories brought back some childhood memories of my own, which was unexpected; so now here I am, trying to reconnect with and understand my inner-child while my son seems to have turned his back on childhood and wants so desperately to be a "real man". Maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle?
 
It’s great that both you and your wife are curious and enquiring when it comes to your little boy. In my childhood if I had had one adult whose face lit up with joy when they looked at me that would have made all the difference someone who was always on my side no matter how badly I behaved someone who loved being with me. The quality of your relationship with your boy is key he has been harmed in relationships and can only heal in relationship.

I feel it could very well be the case that your boy is seeking negative attention. In my childhood my connection with adults was at its strongest while receiving negative attention. It was during abuse of one kind or another that I felt connected to my parents. This child is expecting to be harmed and rejected he will work hard to fulfil these expectations ( not consciously of course) and that will challenge you as a parent and bring up any unresolved stuff from your own childhood.
On tantrums, for a traumatised child these should be, if not welcomed at least accepted. They are his way of expressing himself and if you are able to remain a calm secure anchor during them that would be of enormous benefit to him and would help him bond with you. The more he can express and find acceptance for his feelings the less he will need to act them out.
For the traumatised child a traditIonal behaviourist approach may make things worse, so reward charts, timeouts, consequences for “bad” behaviour etc are probably useless or harmful.

A couple of book recommendations I know you didn’t ask for them but they will explain more than I can.
The explosive child by Ross Green
The whole brained child
There is a podcast called unruffled by Janet Lansbury that is worth checking out, it is especially good at explaining why small children will repeatedly break rules and push boundaries.
 
Rurai said:
It’s great that both you and your wife are curious and enquiring when it comes to your little boy. In my childhood if I had had one adult whose face lit up with joy when they looked at me that would have made all the difference someone who was always on my side no matter how badly I behaved someone who loved being with me. The quality of your relationship with your boy is key he has been harmed in relationships and can only heal in relationship.

I feel it could very well be the case that your boy is seeking negative attention. In my childhood my connection with adults was at its strongest while receiving negative attention. It was during abuse of one kind or another that I felt connected to my parents. This child is expecting to be harmed and rejected he will work hard to fulfil these expectations ( not consciously of course) and that will challenge you as a parent and bring up any unresolved stuff from your own childhood.
On tantrums, for a traumatised child these should be, if not welcomed at least accepted. They are his way of expressing himself and if you are able to remain a calm secure anchor during them that would be of enormous benefit to him and would help him bond with you. The more he can express and find acceptance for his feelings the less he will need to act them out.
For the traumatised child a traditIonal behaviourist approach may make things worse, so reward charts, timeouts, consequences for “bad” behaviour etc are probably useless or harmful.

A couple of book recommendations I know you didn’t ask for them but they will explain more than I can.
The explosive child by Ross Green
The whole brained child
There is a podcast called unruffled by Janet Lansbury that is worth checking out, it is especially good at explaining why small children will repeatedly break rules and push boundaries.
Click to expand...

B.D.F. said:
** Possible Triggers **

My wife and I have a 5 year old foster son who has been living with us for over a year and who we are hoping to adopt one day. We know that he has been exposed to all forms of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse; but due to legal restrictions, DSS cannot provide many details on the abuse that he has suffered. I'm trying to avoid disclosing many details of his abuse because I don't think that is fair to him, but I can tell you that he has been physically abused to the point of leaving scars, has witnessed intense domestic abuse between his biological parents on multiple occasions, has regularly watched his biological parents engage in sexual acts, has been transferred to multiple homes because no one is able to tolerate his behavior, and has been repeatedly molested by another child under the age of 12.

These are the things that we know. God only know what else this poor kid has been through.

My wife and I have taken trauma classes and read books (currently reading The Body Keeps the Score based on recommendations from this forum) about the affects of trauma, especially in children. However, I would love to receive some guidance and feedback from this community on how we can best support our son moving forward. Quite honestly, I don't even have specific questions. I guess I just want to find out what either helped you survive your trauma or maybe what you wish someone would have done during or after you experienced childhood trauma. Ultimately, I just want to do everything possible to set this kid up for success. I know I can't undo his past, but what can I do, say, or model to make it easier for him to move forward?

Here are some behaviors that we have noticed, but have had trouble addressing in the last year.
  • We have noticed that he is prone to outbursts and tantrums (sometimes violent) when he doesn't get his way. We have tried to address this from multiple angles, but it still remains an issue.

  • He can be a bully to his peers and even to older kids. He loves to "puff his chest" so to speak and act stronger and tougher than those around him. A couple kids have responded to this behavior by being beating him up. He hasn't been in any really bad fights (no blood), but his ego is definitely hurt afterwards. I've tried to get him involved in multiple sports in an effort to build his confidence, but he doesn't seem to want to get better at anything (he gets frustrated VERY easily). Either that, or he just isn't that interested in anything we have tried thus far.

  • He talks a lot about girls and he is constantly telling us who he is going to "marry". However, he does not talk to girls, and when he does, he says very hurtful and demeaning things to them. We have caught him trying to sneak into the women's bathroom or sneak a peak at my wife a few times.

  • He has very few friends. I've watched him play with others and he seems to constantly want to show them up or prove that he is better than them in everything. It honestly seems like his insecurities prevent him from normal interaction with his peers.
Again, I'm not asking for anything specific and I realize that some of this behavior is perfectly normal for a 5 year old boy. I would just love to receive some feedback and thoughts from survivors that have maybe been down this road and can provide insight into my son's needs. I am more than happy to answer questions or provide further details (within reason).
Click to expand...


Firstly let me say how amazing it is that you have done this. As someone that was abused by my family of birth (Mother was primary abuser) i feel like i can put myself in his shoes to some degree. Just by giving him a safe loving place is an amazing gift, and it gives him such a great chance of healing from his trauma. Early life trauma like this is incredibly hard to heal from though in my experience. I would def guide him into positive activities where he learns to protect his own boundaries, and lessen the chance of further abuse into adulthood (Which happened to me) Self-defence classes would be a great way of giving him confidence and also a healthy way of interacting with others. Its possible he wont remember/confront his early life trauma until hes later on in his own life...although theres likely to be trigger-points, like when he reaches puberty. When i reached puberty, i noticed a huge change in the way i interacted with others (In retro-spect), and also sometimes an event (Like an abuser dying) or another traumatic event in adulthood can be a trigger. I would definitely focus on helping him improve his confidence in defending himself, as thats such a big thing for boys growing up and children can be ruthless. I can very much relate to his behaviour and it was similar to mine growing up. My school-life was also traumatic, and it had the effect of normalising what i suffered in early childhood, as did the abusive relationships/friendships i sometimes found myself in too. If i could go back in time, i would wish that i had had the chance of having my own foster family.....so he has that massive advantage on his side, and people who want to help and support him. Thats huge in itself. All the best.
 
I’m not sure I have a lot to offer that hasn’t been already said, but I just wanted to let you know that what you are doing is heaven sent. Your boy needs a lot of love and guidance in his life. It’s an opportunity to help a young boy that most of us wished had happened to us.

I am rooting for you and your son as you both work through his trauma and praying that you find a path forward. I’m praying for peace and healing for your son.

Blessings
JB
 
Your foster son is blessed to have you. You have great instincts and are doing well. My advice is to keep it up and keep going.

Calm, consistent, predictable and unflappable would have been reassuring and comforting to me as a child. (I'm female as a disclaimer but I'm guessing it's the same).
It must be hard as a parent to remain calm and patient and under-react to bad behavior (it may feel like under reacting) but it is important to remain calm and firm and follow through on consequences whether it is sitting quietly in a chair on a brief time-out (commensurate with his maturity), a brief suspension of a privilege or whatnot.

I was fortunate to have a couple adults in my life who, as someone said above, lit up when they saw me. Literally smiled, and welcomed me with a present and a hug. Like my very being was loveable and a cause for joy. I didn't get that at home where I was a burden, a problem, an offense, and it was difficult to get anyone's attention. How people react to us shapes our sense of self and self worth.

He will enjoy negative attention most because that is what feels comfortable and normal to him, so in a sick way it will be reassuring. He will probably try to provoke it. Positive attention is probably baffling and shatters his paradigm for interactions. It takes a long time to build a new normal.

You're human and will mess up but do your best to avoid shows of negative emotion toward him, similar to how you would behave in a professional setting, so avoid raising your voice, spanking or hitting of any kind, intimidating or lording over him physically, sighing, eye rolling, or the cold shoulder. Watch how you are expressing your own human emotions and model healthy ways to express and deal with frustration, disappointment, anger etc. Such as using words to say, "ugh, I feel frustrated assembling this chair. I'd better take a moment to re-read the directions." Etc. Expressing joy, happiness, humor and affection openly are also important as he might not actually know how to feel good feelings in a healthy way.

He will be watching how you treat your wife. Are you smiling and making eye contact, comforting her gently when shes feeling low, asking permission to hug her or kiss her, thanking her and speaking to her respectfully? He will absolutely be mimicking what he sees... and again it will take time to establish a new normal. He might need guidance developing empathy for other children, including girls (how would you feel if someone said that to you? Etc)

Trying different activities to see if you can connect with an inner passion and channel his energy is a great idea. Sounds like sports havent landed for him, so maybe try a different tack. Team sports can be uncomfortable for an abused child who may get overwhwelmed by the social heirarchy, politics, etc, and skill building like hitting a ball will require confidence and self-trust that he doesnt have yet and he will just wind up frustrated. Building up a capacity for persistence and a tolerance to frustration takes time.

It sounds like he's eager to prove he's a strong man. Nature and the outdoors can be soothing and stimulate positive feelings and can also seem manly. What about something that requires no skill, such as paddling a canoe or 2 person kayak on a calm lake. Riding mountain bikes together on a flat trail. Building something simple such as a fort together in the back yard. Planting plants...he can dig holes. Even if he wanders off and plays in the dirt while you are doing the work..which lets face it, hes five so that will probably happen....Being in each other's presence calmly, can be soothing and build trust.

Creative outlets can also be calming for some traumatized kids. Drawing or painting (as long as you treat it with joy and fun, and not punishment over any mess). Sit together in the grass with paper and pencils and draw what you see, which builds mindfulness and connection with nature. Even if he scribbles and wrecks the paper....he is observing and absorbing everything you do.

I assume you have a predictable daily routine for him, that sense of a rhythm will be calming and soothing.
 
B.D.F. said:
Any tips on how to establish these boundaries and expectations? We've tried to be very clear of our expectations daily, sometimes hourly, and we try to articulate and demonstrate our expected behavior as well, both in general and as a response to his actions; but he continues to push boundaries and purposefully break rules even though he knows the rules as well as their consequences. Sometimes it feels like he only enjoys negative attention, so he purposefully breaks rules in order to elicit a negative response from us. I know this is probably not the case, but it was one of the reasons I wanted to seek feedback from men who could relate to my son's past childhood in hopes that they could shed some light on his thought process
Click to expand...

I still don't take compliments very easily, your son may not be very used to positive attention it may feel uncomfortable he may not understand how he's meant to act or react to it. The negative is the norm

Your son is very young you can teach him to express himself his thoughts and his feelings , how good positive attention is, how to react to it. Rebuild his self esteem, with Patience, consistency and your time

And sadly it will take time, time for him to feel safe and settled I'd imagine and time to adjust and time to heal

Every child is so different but I wish someone had taken time to spend with me when I was 5 to do things I liked doing like drawing, I wish some one asked how I felt what I was thinking about what I liked what I didn't like and cared about the responses

I'm not my eldest sons bio dad and I always feel the pressure to get it right one of us has too right? You may feel similar so many people haven't got it right before you. I'm sure your son has made progress in the time he has been with you keep caring like you do

Peace HL
 
First off, I want to thank everyone so much for all the replies. Your posts have both encouraged and convicted me.

One common theme in all of your responses is the word "calm". Unfortunately, this is where I have struggled the most with my son so far. I tend to get worked up, especially when he is mean or violent with others, and resort to yelling even before I realize it. I've even noticed that he tends to "glaze over" when I do this, almost like he's thinking "Yep, there it is. This is normal.". Reading everyone's responses has shown me how important it is that I get a handle on this and respond more appropriately.

Your posts have also made me realize the importance of showing my son love through my body language and emotions, not just words. I notice at-least a couple posts mention the desire for their parent to "light up" when they entered the room. Like a lot of people here, I have a lot of trouble expressing emotions to others; something my wife can attest to. However, these comments have shown me that my son needs this, so I'm going to make real effort to improve in this area.

mmfan said:
Your foster son is blessed to have you. You have great instincts and are doing well. My advice is to keep it up and keep going.

Calm, consistent, predictable and unflappable would have been reassuring and comforting to me as a child. (I'm female as a disclaimer but I'm guessing it's the same).
It must be hard as a parent to remain calm and patient and under-react to bad behavior (it may feel like under reacting) but it is important to remain calm and firm and follow through on consequences whether it is sitting quietly in a chair on a brief time-out (commensurate with his maturity), a brief suspension of a privilege or whatnot.

I was fortunate to have a couple adults in my life who, as someone said above, lit up when they saw me. Literally smiled, and welcomed me with a present and a hug. Like my very being was loveable and a cause for joy. I didn't get that at home where I was a burden, a problem, an offense, and it was difficult to get anyone's attention. How people react to us shapes our sense of self and self worth.

He will enjoy negative attention most because that is what feels comfortable and normal to him, so in a sick way it will be reassuring. He will probably try to provoke it. Positive attention is probably baffling and shatters his paradigm for interactions. It takes a long time to build a new normal.

You're human and will mess up but do your best to avoid shows of negative emotion toward him, similar to how you would behave in a professional setting, so avoid raising your voice, spanking or hitting of any kind, intimidating or lording over him physically, sighing, eye rolling, or the cold shoulder. Watch how you are expressing your own human emotions and model healthy ways to express and deal with frustration, disappointment, anger etc. Such as using words to say, "ugh, I feel frustrated assembling this chair. I'd better take a moment to re-read the directions." Etc. Expressing joy, happiness, humor and affection openly are also important as he might not actually know how to feel good feelings in a healthy way.

He will be watching how you treat your wife. Are you smiling and making eye contact, comforting her gently when shes feeling low, asking permission to hug her or kiss her, thanking her and speaking to her respectfully? He will absolutely be mimicking what he sees... and again it will take time to establish a new normal. He might need guidance developing empathy for other children, including girls (how would you feel if someone said that to you? Etc)

Trying different activities to see if you can connect with an inner passion and channel his energy is a great idea. Sounds like sports havent landed for him, so maybe try a different tack. Team sports can be uncomfortable for an abused child who may get overwhwelmed by the social heirarchy, politics, etc, and skill building like hitting a ball will require confidence and self-trust that he doesnt have yet and he will just wind up frustrated. Building up a capacity for persistence and a tolerance to frustration takes time.

It sounds like he's eager to prove he's a strong man. Nature and the outdoors can be soothing and stimulate positive feelings and can also seem manly. What about something that requires no skill, such as paddling a canoe or 2 person kayak on a calm lake. Riding mountain bikes together on a flat trail. Building something simple such as a fort together in the back yard. Planting plants...he can dig holes. Even if he wanders off and plays in the dirt while you are doing the work..which lets face it, hes five so that will probably happen....Being in each other's presence calmly, can be soothing and build trust.

Creative outlets can also be calming for some traumatized kids. Drawing or painting (as long as you treat it with joy and fun, and not punishment over any mess). Sit together in the grass with paper and pencils and draw what you see, which builds mindfulness and connection with nature. Even if he scribbles and wrecks the paper....he is observing and absorbing everything you do.

I assume you have a predictable daily routine for him, that sense of a rhythm will be calming and soothing.
Click to expand...

Whew, there is a lot of good stuff here and it is very well articulated. One thing that jumped out to me was my interaction with my wife; especially when it comes to comforting her and finding opportunities to publicly thank and praise her (something I need to work on). I had also never considered asking permission for a hug or a kiss, but that makes a ton of sense and is something I plan to start doing immediately.

Healing light said:
I still don't take compliments very easily, your son may not be very used to positive attention it may feel uncomfortable he may not understand how he's meant to act or react to it. The negative is the norm
Click to expand...

This comment was an eye-opener for me. I have never understood why I am so uncomfortable when someone pays me a compliment, so I completely relate. However, I never considered that he may have issues in this area as well, which would explain a lot of his behavior. I'll definitely be working with my son in this moving forward.
 
Hey @B.D.F.,

Lots of solid advice here for you to digest.

Some quick background about me with respect to my thoughts on this. But first, thank you, thank you, thank you to you and your wife for fostering. The need is huge, and the job is big and not easy. There also aren’t the rewards you think and hope there will be - for quite some time. So hang in there - the best really is yet to come.
  • Amazingly, my parents (mom mostly) had a heart to foster. This was after my sexual abuse had ended after confronting my dad when I was 12. And yes, I can say with confidence I was “the chosen one” and neither my sisters or my foster sister or foster brother were sexually abused while in our house. My little foster bro stayed with us from 2-4 and shared my room and he was safe. My foster sister - with all she’s been thru - would have said something by now if anything had ever happened. So I have fostering experience - as a sibling
  • I started my healing journey at 17, and when I was 18 I volunteered for several years at an abuse / neglect shelter in my college town. The house parents became like family to me, and I had their amazing example to follow when parenting and helping kids who have been thru abuse
  • I taught school and coached for four years in the public school system and had my share of hurting kids there
  • I’ve coached for years and most of the time those kids are well cared for but occasionally have come across kids in need
The biggest needs kids who have been through abuse have are security and stability. While you can’t yet adopt and give the permanence of being a family, legally, you can instill security through consistency and routines. This is important. Especially for a five year old. I’ve said for years that 4-5 year olds are precious and innocent, but are some of the strangest little people at that age. It’s just a developmental thing - so yes, he will grow up some.

With respect to rules and behavior, grace based parenting is a must. Grace does not mean without boundaries. No boundaries = insecurity. Rather, it’s putting love at the forefront and focusing on the big things while letting other things go. One good example I can think of: when kids showed up at the shelter home, if they didn’t follow a “normal” routine before bed and wanted to sleep in their clothes, that was fine. Those of us who were sexually abused understand why they might want to. Of course, for others, that was more about their clothes being their possessions.

I echo the others’ thoughts on calm, and this can be very hard. Completely throw away thoughts of worrying about embarrassment by his behaviors. He’s gonna be who he is right now. Obviously you can’t let him harm others or himself, but I’ve seen even that dealt with calmly. Honestly, that response is learned and does not come naturally.

I don’t really care for behavior mod type things (reward charts) because it contradicts grace based parenting, and because kids are people and not dogs. However, it can be effective at positively changing behavior and should be a tool - used sparingly. Some kids actually do really well because it gives them something with known boundaries and they can succeed at something positive.

Most of all, make the effort to spend time doing fun things together. Set boundaries before activities, make consequences known ahead of time (and make them as “natural” to the disobedience as you can: if he writes on the walls, he has to clean it up vs. putting him in timeout). If you are active in the activity with him, he will likely stay in the boundaries. If you aren’t, he will probably push things for attentIon. You can’t play 24x7, I know. But play together will do a lot of positive things for you all.

This job you have is tough. He needs to know he’s loved and secure while at the same time his fears will try to keep you at arms length. There will be (and has been) way more giving from you than receiving. But you are making a huge difference in his life. My mom’s goal with foster kids was, if nothing else, to show them families can be different and give them another model to grow into for themselves. My foster sister is amazing. She’s rough around the edges but solid where it counts, she’s raised her own kids and taken in and raised her sister’s kids as well - went to court for them, parented them, etc. One even had developmental needs. And she has told me my parents absolutely made a difference her life. My foster bro - he was so young, but he remembered us. We haven’t been able to truly connect with him because the emotional toll on him and therefore his family was too big. But he’s a good husband and a good dad and we made a difference for him too.
 
MO-Survivor said:
Hey @B.D.F.,

Lots of solid advice here for you to digest.

Some quick background about me with respect to my thoughts on this. But first, thank you, thank you, thank you to you and your wife for fostering. The need is huge, and the job is big and not easy. There also aren’t the rewards you think and hope there will be - for quite some time. So hang in there - the best really is yet to come.
  • Amazingly, my parents (mom mostly) had a heart to foster. This was after my sexual abuse had ended after confronting my dad when I was 12. And yes, I can say with confidence I was “the chosen one” and neither my sisters or my foster sister or foster brother were sexually abused while in our house. My little foster bro stayed with us from 2-4 and shared my room and he was safe. My foster sister - with all she’s been thru - would have said something by now if anything had ever happened. So I have fostering experience - as a sibling
  • I started my healing journey at 17, and when I was 18 I volunteered for several years at an abuse / neglect shelter in my college town. The house parents became like family to me, and I had their amazing example to follow when parenting and helping kids who have been thru abuse
  • I taught school and coached for four years in the public school system and had my share of hurting kids there
  • I’ve coached for years and most of the time those kids are well cared for but occasionally have come across kids in need
The biggest needs kids who have been through abuse have are security and stability. While you can’t yet adopt and give the permanence of being a family, legally, you can instill security through consistency and routines. This is important. Especially for a five year old. I’ve said for years that 4-5 year olds are precious and innocent, but are some of the strangest little people at that age. It’s just a developmental thing - so yes, he will grow up some.

With respect to rules and behavior, grace based parenting is a must. Grace does not mean without boundaries. No boundaries = insecurity. Rather, it’s putting love at the forefront and focusing on the big things while letting other things go. One good example I can think of: when kids showed up at the shelter home, if they didn’t follow a “normal” routine before bed and wanted to sleep in their clothes, that was fine. Those of us who were sexually abused understand why they might want to. Of course, for others, that was more about their clothes being their possessions.

I echo the others’ thoughts on calm, and this can be very hard. Completely throw away thoughts of worrying about embarrassment by his behaviors. He’s gonna be who he is right now. Obviously you can’t let him harm others or himself, but I’ve seen even that dealt with calmly. Honestly, that response is learned and does not come naturally.

I don’t really care for behavior mod type things (reward charts) because it contradicts grace based parenting, and because kids are people and not dogs. However, it can be effective at positively changing behavior and should be a tool - used sparingly. Some kids actually do really well because it gives them something with known boundaries and they can succeed at something positive.

Most of all, make the effort to spend time doing fun things together. Set boundaries before activities, make consequences known ahead of time (and make them as “natural” to the disobedience as you can: if he writes on the walls, he has to clean it up vs. putting him in timeout). If you are active in the activity with him, he will likely stay in the boundaries. If you aren’t, he will probably push things for attentIon. You can’t play 24x7, I know. But play together will do a lot of positive things for you all.

This job you have is tough. He needs to know he’s loved and secure while at the same time his fears will try to keep you at arms length. There will be (and has been) way more giving from you than receiving. But you are making a huge difference in his life. My mom’s goal with foster kids was, if nothing else, to show them families can be different and give them another model to grow into for themselves. My foster sister is amazing. She’s rough around the edges but solid where it counts, she’s raised her own kids and taken in and raised her sister’s kids as well - went to court for them, parented them, etc. One even had developmental needs. And she has told me my parents absolutely made a difference her life. My foster bro - he was so young, but he remembered us. We haven’t been able to truly connect with him because the emotional toll on him and therefore his family was too big. But he’s a good husband and a good dad and we made a difference for him too.
Click to expand...
Wonderful story MO. I have often thought about fostering, but, we had our hands full with our youngest so having social problems and academic problems right off the bat! My older son could not read until he was in grade 4, and thanks to grandparents who paid for tutoring he learned to read. He took a college course 5 years ago something dealing with computer assisted drafting/engineering and loves it. Our younger son, finished college and is in HVAC. What I don't understand is why my parents helped everyone else but me? I was expected to read and learn from the books when home schooled, and in school if I had problems I was expected to sort them out myself. I know I did ok in my elementary grades, but high-school, it was a total right off. I loved going to school, learning, being with other boys, etc, but I HATED the failing grades I got and many times thought suicide would be the answer to my problems. Well, 45 years later, I'm still here!, or,,,,,,,am I? perhaps this is just a different dimenension of life?
 
B.D.F. said:
First off, I want to thank everyone so much for all the replies. Your posts have both encouraged and convicted me.

One common theme in all of your responses is the word "calm". Unfortunately, this is where I have struggled the most with my son so far. I tend to get worked up, especially when he is mean or violent with others, and resort to yelling even before I realize it. I've even noticed that he tends to "glaze over" when I do this, almost like he's thinking "Yep, there it is. This is normal.". Reading everyone's responses has shown me how important it is that I get a handle on this and respond more appropriately.

Your posts have also made me realize the importance of showing my son love through my body language and emotions, not just words. I notice at-least a couple posts mention the desire for their parent to "light up" when they entered the room. Like a lot of people here, I have a lot of trouble expressing emotions to others; something my wife can attest to. However, these comments have shown me that my son needs this, so I'm going to make real effort to improve in this area.



Whew, there is a lot of good stuff here and it is very well articulated. One thing that jumped out to me was my interaction with my wife; especially when it comes to comforting her and finding opportunities to publicly thank and praise her (something I need to work on). I had also never considered asking permission for a hug or a kiss, but that makes a ton of sense and is something I plan to start doing immediately.



This comment was an eye-opener for me. I have never understood why I am so uncomfortable when someone pays me a compliment, so I completely relate. However, I never considered that he may have issues in this area as well, which would explain a lot of his behavior. I'll definitely be working with my son in this moving forward.
Click to expand...
Hey, I too have real problems with accepting compliments. I also have a hard time giving them out! I don't say to my wife often enough, "I love you"! Things I am trying to work on.
 
B.D.F. said:
First off, I want to thank everyone so much for all the replies. Your posts have both encouraged and convicted me.

One common theme in all of your responses is the word "calm". Unfortunately, this is where I have struggled the most with my son so far. I tend to get worked up, especially when he is mean or violent with others, and resort to yelling even before I realize it. I've even noticed that he tends to "glaze over" when I do this, almost like he's thinking "Yep, there it is. This is normal.". Reading everyone's responses has shown me how important it is that I get a handle on this and respond more appropriately.

Your posts have also made me realize the importance of showing my son love through my body language and emotions, not just words. I notice at-least a couple posts mention the desire for their parent to "light up" when they entered the room. Like a lot of people here, I have a lot of trouble expressing emotions to others; something my wife can attest to. However, these comments have shown me that my son needs this, so I'm going to make real effort to improve in this area.



Whew, there is a lot of good stuff here and it is very well articulated. One thing that jumped out to me was my interaction with my wife; especially when it comes to comforting her and finding opportunities to publicly thank and praise her (something I need to work on). I had also never considered asking permission for a hug or a kiss, but that makes a ton of sense and is something I plan to start doing immediately.



This comment was an eye-opener for me. I have never understood why I am so uncomfortable when someone pays me a compliment, so I completely relate. However, I never considered that he may have issues in this area as well, which would explain a lot of his behavior. I'll definitely be working with my son in this moving forward
Click to expand...
Someone once told me to pay attention next time I was yelling to my blood pressure and how my body was reacting to the stressor how it doesn't feel good and that amount of stress can't be healthy for anyone concerned

Raising children is real stressful de-escalating is the approach I take now way before we get to yelling before anyone is stressed out to the max
There's lots of resources covering de-escalation techniques

I sat this morning at 6am I have 3 kids the toddler was asking for food, middle son was asking questions about the day ahead and eldest son 12 was wanting to discuss japan in the second world War
Me I wanted coffee lots of it children's brains are phenomenal they don't seem to stop thinking, feeling, processing no wonder they get so overwhelmed


Positive affirmations is something you may find useful for you and your son it might help with the compliments and accepting positive attention

Art, music, drama, are all useful tools for expression for children and adults alike

Nature can be calming for some people having a pet can work for others
At 5 i loved animals trusted them more than humans. I grew up around horses and you treat them with respect and they do the same

II wish you the best in your journey

HL
 
MO-Survivor said:
Hey @B.D.F.,

Lots of solid advice here for you to digest.

Some quick background about me with respect to my thoughts on this. But first, thank you, thank you, thank you to you and your wife for fostering. The need is huge, and the job is big and not easy. There also aren’t the rewards you think and hope there will be - for quite some time. So hang in there - the best really is yet to come.
  • Amazingly, my parents (mom mostly) had a heart to foster. This was after my sexual abuse had ended after confronting my dad when I was 12. And yes, I can say with confidence I was “the chosen one” and neither my sisters or my foster sister or foster brother were sexually abused while in our house. My little foster bro stayed with us from 2-4 and shared my room and he was safe. My foster sister - with all she’s been thru - would have said something by now if anything had ever happened. So I have fostering experience - as a sibling
  • I started my healing journey at 17, and when I was 18 I volunteered for several years at an abuse / neglect shelter in my college town. The house parents became like family to me, and I had their amazing example to follow when parenting and helping kids who have been thru abuse
  • I taught school and coached for four years in the public school system and had my share of hurting kids there
  • I’ve coached for years and most of the time those kids are well cared for but occasionally have come across kids in need
The biggest needs kids who have been through abuse have are security and stability. While you can’t yet adopt and give the permanence of being a family, legally, you can instill security through consistency and routines. This is important. Especially for a five year old. I’ve said for years that 4-5 year olds are precious and innocent, but are some of the strangest little people at that age. It’s just a developmental thing - so yes, he will grow up some.

With respect to rules and behavior, grace based parenting is a must. Grace does not mean without boundaries. No boundaries = insecurity. Rather, it’s putting love at the forefront and focusing on the big things while letting other things go. One good example I can think of: when kids showed up at the shelter home, if they didn’t follow a “normal” routine before bed and wanted to sleep in their clothes, that was fine. Those of us who were sexually abused understand why they might want to. Of course, for others, that was more about their clothes being their possessions.

I echo the others’ thoughts on calm, and this can be very hard. Completely throw away thoughts of worrying about embarrassment by his behaviors. He’s gonna be who he is right now. Obviously you can’t let him harm others or himself, but I’ve seen even that dealt with calmly. Honestly, that response is learned and does not come naturally.

I don’t really care for behavior mod type things (reward charts) because it contradicts grace based parenting, and because kids are people and not dogs. However, it can be effective at positively changing behavior and should be a tool - used sparingly. Some kids actually do really well because it gives them something with known boundaries and they can succeed at something positive.

Most of all, make the effort to spend time doing fun things together. Set boundaries before activities, make consequences known ahead of time (and make them as “natural” to the disobedience as you can: if he writes on the walls, he has to clean it up vs. putting him in timeout). If you are active in the activity with him, he will likely stay in the boundaries. If you aren’t, he will probably push things for attentIon. You can’t play 24x7, I know. But play together will do a lot of positive things for you all.

This job you have is tough. He needs to know he’s loved and secure while at the same time his fears will try to keep you at arms length. There will be (and has been) way more giving from you than receiving. But you are making a huge difference in his life. My mom’s goal with foster kids was, if nothing else, to show them families can be different and give them another model to grow into for themselves. My foster sister is amazing. She’s rough around the edges but solid where it counts, she’s raised her own kids and taken in and raised her sister’s kids as well - went to court for them, parented them, etc. One even had developmental needs. And she has told me my parents absolutely made a difference her life. My foster bro - he was so young, but he remembered us. We haven’t been able to truly connect with him because the emotional toll on him and therefore his family was too big. But he’s a good husband and a good dad and we made a difference for him too.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to share all that with me as it is really helpful. I do try to not sweat the small stuff with my kids and instead focus on, what I consider to be, important values; like being kind to others. However, I have noticed that I have a hard time remaining calm when one of my kids shows disrespect (back talking, ignoring rules, etc.) to myself or another authority figure. I was an Army brat, so disrespect was something that was not tolerated when I was growing up. Now that I've recognized this "trigger", I'm going to work on my responses and find ways to show grace (as you put it) while also creating teachable moments.

I completely agree with your feelings on reward charts. They feel too structured. It feels like I'm downplaying values like kindness, love, empathy, hard work, etc. by saying they are worth a sticker on a piece of paper. We've tried them, I hate them, and they have never worked for us. Maybe my kids can sense my hatred of reward charts. :p

Healing light said:
Someone once told me to pay attention next time I was yelling to my blood pressure and how my body was reacting to the stressor how it doesn't feel good and that amount of stress can't be healthy for anyone concerned

Raising children is real stressful de-escalating is the approach I take now way before we get to yelling before anyone is stressed out to the max
There's lots of resources covering de-escalation techniques

I sat this morning at 6am I have 3 kids the toddler was asking for food, middle son was asking questions about the day ahead and eldest son 12 was wanting to discuss japan in the second world War
Me I wanted coffee lots of it children's brains are phenomenal they don't seem to stop thinking, feeling, processing no wonder they get so overwhelmed


Positive affirmations is something you may find useful for you and your son it might help with the compliments and accepting positive attention

Art, music, drama, are all useful tools for expression for children and adults alike

Nature can be calming for some people having a pet can work for others
At 5 i loved animals trusted them more than humans. I grew up around horses and you treat them with respect and they do the same

II wish you the best in your journey

HL
Click to expand...

Your comment about blood pressure hits home. During son of my son's worst tantrums, my watch would start warning me about my high heart rate, which was unsettling. I've since learned to cope with the tantrums better and sometimes walk away to gather my thoughts and give him some time to calm down. Once I started doing this, I realized that I wasn't necessarily "angry" with my son. I was just getting extremely frustrated because he wouldn't stop yelling or he wouldn't stop punching/breaking things. What I've realized, and what this thread is confirming, is I need to show him how to properly respond to stimuli by remaining calm and controlling my emotions.

I love your thoughts about how a child's brain is always "going". It is something I've never considered before.

Thanks again for the continued advice and support. This thread is gold. I'm going to go wake the kids up in a few minutes to get ready for school and I'm going to make an effort to be super, maybe annoyingly, excited to see them after they come out of their rooms. :)
 
Quick update. This morning went well and my son seemed to really enjoy the fact that I was overly excited to hang out with him while we all got ready for the day. However, as we were getting ready to leave and we started to calm down, he started making little snide comments and his body language became "confrontational". It's hard to explain, but when he acts like this he's not actually doing anything wrong or misbehaving; I tend to say that he is "poking" people around him and trying to encourage a negative reaction. It's subtle, but it is there.

After watching him do this for a while, I pulled him aside and asked what was wrong. He gave his typical answer, "I don't know." and shrugged his shoulders. He admitted that he was angry, but he couldn't tell me why. I asked him why he was trying to make others around him angry, and he didn't know. So, finally, I asked him if happy moments make him uncomfortable. I gave him examples of someone giving him a compliment or being nice to him. Without hesitation he said they did, but he didn't know why.

Holy crap! You guys were right. I'm not sure what my next steps are to address this other than focusing on positive affirmation and helping him become more comfortable by making it the norm. However, I wanted to provide this update because I would have never made this connection, much less asked my son about this particular issue, had it not been for this thread. So, thank you all so much for your responses. I know this doesn't seem like a huge deal to some, but being able to talk to him about feelings and have him say something other than "I don't know." is a milestone for us and really gives us hope and at-least a little direction on how to move forward.
 
Perhaps we as parents are so focused on the things that go wrong with our kids, they expect to hear the negative replies from us parents. When we give them a compliment on work well done, or for helping someone out, it throws them for a spin they were not expecting. Then in order to get the feeling they were expecting, and perhaps "wanting" they try provoking us? I think we just need to be more proactive on handing out "Thank you's", "Great work" etc. I myself have been extremely guilty with that over the years with my 2 boys, now adults and one moved out of the house and town!, :( I wish I could go back years and re-do stuff from way back. I can't, so basically, it starts with me NOW! Thank you all for great comments, and BDF, I remember some of the stints my boys would pull on me, just to get my reaction! I can laugh at some of them now. Remind later and I will post a story of such an incident that makes me laugh!
 
B.D.F. said:
Quick update. This morning went well and my son seemed to really enjoy the fact that I was overly excited to hang out with him while we all got ready for the day. However, as we were getting ready to leave and we started to calm down, he started making little snide comments and his body language became "confrontational". It's hard to explain, but when he acts like this he's not actually doing anything wrong or misbehaving; I tend to say that he is "poking" people around him and trying to encourage a negative reaction. It's subtle, but it is there.

After watching him do this for a while, I pulled him aside and asked what was wrong. He gave his typical answer, "I don't know." and shrugged his shoulders. He admitted that he was angry, but he couldn't tell me why. I asked him why he was trying to make others around him angry, and he didn't know. So, finally, I asked him if happy moments make him uncomfortable. I gave him examples of someone giving him a compliment or being nice to him. Without hesitation he said they did, but he didn't know why.

Holy crap! You guys were right. I'm not sure what my next steps are to address this other than focusing on positive affirmation and helping him become more comfortable by making it the norm. However, I wanted to provide this update because I would have never made this connection, much less asked my son about this particular issue, had it not been for this thread. So, thank you all so much for your responses. I know this doesn't seem like a huge deal to some, but being able to talk to him about feelings and have him say something other than "I don't know." is a milestone for us and really gives us hope and at-least a little direction on how to move forward.
Click to expand...
That's great insight. Congrats on helping your little guy the way you did. Knowing you care how he feels will help him - and no surprise he can't put his finger on why he's angry or why compliments make him feel uncomfortable. We have a hard enough time identifying feelings and connecting them to our lives as adults :)
Interestingly, @B.D.F. - my therapist and I have been talking about the teen kid I was (12-15), and I've been really frustrated this last week because I've been trying to connect with that kid but I've been getting a lot of resistance. As a teen, I built walls between me and my feelings, and between me and my parents. And I had little understanding that I was the same kid I used I saw at the abuse / neglect shelter I volunteered at. Lots of similar behaviors as what you seen in your foster son. The big difference, and the cool thing for you: at 5 years old, your foster son is probably still very open to having caring, connecting parents. At 12, I tossed that desire aside - some of that is a natural change in our teen years as we pull away from our parents, but a lot of it was due to my ultimatum to my dad and the decision I had to take care of myself. Great thread!
 
B.D.F. said:
Quick update. This morning went well and my son seemed to really enjoy the fact that I was overly excited to hang out with him while we all got ready for the day. However, as we were getting ready to leave and we started to calm down, he started making little snide comments and his body language became "confrontational". It's hard to explain, but when he acts like this he's not actually doing anything wrong or misbehaving; I tend to say that he is "poking" people around him and trying to encourage a negative reaction. It's subtle, but it is there.

After watching him do this for a while, I pulled him aside and asked what was wrong. He gave his typical answer, "I don't know." and shrugged his shoulders. He admitted that he was angry, but he couldn't tell me why. I asked him why he was trying to make others around him angry, and he didn't know. So, finally, I asked him if happy moments make him uncomfortable. I gave him examples of someone giving him a compliment or being nice to him. Without hesitation he said they did, but he didn't know why.

Holy crap! You guys were right. I'm not sure what my next steps are to address this other than focusing on positive affirmation and helping him become more comfortable by making it the norm. However, I wanted to provide this update because I would have never made this connection, much less asked my son about this particular issue, had it not been for this thread. So, thank you all so much for your responses. I know this doesn't seem like a huge deal to some, but being able to talk to him about feelings and have him say something other than "I don't know." is a milestone for us and really gives us hope and at-least a little direction on how to move forward.
Click to expand...

I'm really pleased you shared this update that's a great milestone to hit

I understand the confrontational body language the behaviour that's provoking of reactions because it totally explains what I was like when I was younger
I'd dance the line of people's boundaries and rules and I poked. Part of a busy household I was difficult for my mum my behaviour was frustrating for her when I was 13 in a house with 5 other kids if I was not there it would run like clock work if I was there it was chaos. The other thing I did was I wouldn't talk for days it's not exactly misbehaving but I can imagine it's majorly frustrating for a parent to deal with the behaviour. Unfortunately for me my abuser was handed more control and opportunity to abuse

To this day I find it hard to verbalise my abuse how it made me feel, my thought processes so I imagine how a child must feel healing from something so hard to express. I was in my late 20's when I disclosed to police and started to try and heal your son probably doesn't even have the vocabulary being so young it might be why he says I don't know so much

I'm glad this thread has been helpful for you all the best in your families journey

HL
 
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